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All-Stars is a different case because Kratos actually references it in GoW Ragnarok itself.
But that is a story for another time.
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Shovel Knight 2-C
- Thread starter DaReaperMan
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But that is a story for another time.
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Still waiting on Mortal Kombat confirmation =P
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Highly doubt that far. Also, I do have friends who also have issues with full 2-C and especially the recent Low 1-C additions. I'm more neutral, but I will point out god tiers are still 3-A at bare minimum though Greek statements being Low 2-C I don't mind too much. But I understand doubts about the 9 realms thing. But this is off topic.
But Bambu make valid points that Jumping from Urban Tier to Cosmic tier via a one time crossover is quite outlandish yes. And I would feel hard-pressed if they implied GoW and Shovel Knight were canon to one another, but Battletoads didn't get the same treatment; at least Battletoads is wacky enough to make crossovers like this canonish.
Mr. Bambu
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nono it's fine Battletoads will be upgraded to 2-C too
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To be fair, only GoW has that distinction of being canon because 1. Actual statements, 2. Referenced in Ragnarok, 3. Same company.
But again, a story for another time.
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Tbf, GoW works on the fact that all myths have their own universe in it, so you could say that SK and BT are just 2 other myth worlds in the GoW myth multiverse
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I still think crossover scaling when the gap is that wide is very silly, even if it was unquestionable (and iirc the "reference" is more of a vague nod than anything) I'd push for it being a "possibly" rating at very best
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Honestly, that's whatever at this point.
ShionAH
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If you guys ever make a downgrade thread tell me, I will be the first one to agree
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I assume we're talking about Shovel Knight here?
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Look man, i'm not gonna start studying all of GoW lore to comprehend, let alone counter, what you just said, but I find the idea of Shovel Knight being a "myth" to be pretty dumb, let alone Battletoads.
Anyways Kratos should be downgraded to 8-C for losing to Shovel Knight I think
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What you don't want Raiden to fight Arceus? Killjoy smh.
Serlock_Holmes
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Seconded.
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Yeah nah. Shovel Knight is just considered to be "another adventure", not a whole pantheon within the GoW verse.
So let's just stop with the off-topic derailing and focus on the actual contents at hand.
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yes this was very important
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Compelling argument, but wrong. It is.
Death of the author being thrown around as if it means anything here. Are you implying that author statements shouldn’t be considered true because of death of the author? Death of the author only comes into play if we’re assuming that authors are simply always wrong
here’s the problem, death of the author refers to interpreting the meaning behind works, this is just a statement that it’s canon my guy. It’s not up to the reader’s interpretation to begin with, because it’s officially confirmed to be canon by both sides. But you know what, I’ll make sure to remember to disagree on accounts of death of the author every time word of god is used in any upgrade, because I’m sure it’s a valid counterargument that most certainly does not stem from complete misuse of the term.
First of all, I don’t care for your attitude young man
Regardless, here is what you are claiming: the crossover can’t be used for scaling because the statistics were changed just for the sake of the story, I wonder what the author (who still isn’t dead) had to say
Q: “Hey bro is Kratos nerfed in the crossover”
A: “No, shovel knight is just that good”
You have a very specific concern, and it was very specifically stated to be unfounded by our source here. You try and act like I’m reading, but your vision is clearly blinded with red judging by how little attention you’re paying to me.
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We can stop with the derailing. But anyway, even if Shovel Knight and GoW were parts of the same multiverse, I think the general consensus is that the fight would still be an outlier.
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Which goes back to my proposal that we just separate the battletoads continuity with the ps4 shovel knight continuity, because they do not exist in the same version.
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I Apologize then
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That's literally Option A minus the multiverse part.
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I didn't say "solely if you throw the Battletoads into the mix", I said "especially if you throw the Battletoads into the mix". It's quite secondary.
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okay maybe you should be the one to ask for the anti feats instead of me because it’s pretty important to have anti feats when you’re arguing that an upgrade is contradictory, and nobody has given me what I asked for after I did so multiple times.
I never implied it was the primary reason.
Mr. Bambu
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Duly noted lol
It does, actually, mean exactly that. I presume you're not aware of what that actually means: it means things such as Word of God should not be used, as once a given piece of fiction is released, it is not up to the author how that work of fiction is interpreted (barring, of course, follow-up actual content, such as sequel games).
As for canon, as has been pointed out, VSBW has a very particular definition of canon and what types of canon there are, a fact you have chosen not to interface with but a fact it remains. It is up to us to interpret what falls into which category, which means Death of the Author is greatly at play- word of god statements should not, in an ideal situation, be used to determine these truths, instead relying solely on the works themselves.
You genuinely have no reading comprehension lmaoFirst of all, I don’t care for your attitude young man
Regardless, here is what you are claiming: the crossover can’t be used for scaling because the statistics were changed just for the sake of the story, I wonder what the author (who still isn’t dead) had to say
Q: “Hey bro is Kratos nerfed in the crossover”
A: “No, shovel knight is just that good”
You have a very specific concern, and it was very specifically stated to be unfounded by our source here. You try and act like I’m reading, but your vision is clearly blinded with red judging by how little attention you’re paying to me.
What I'm claiming is that because Kratos scales so ridiculously higher than the verse you're proposing he scales to would otherwise (Shovel Knight), he can't be used to scale to Shovel Knight. At no point did I argue "N-no! Kratos is super weak noodly armed here! H-he's just weak guys, that's all!" I cited the rules, and you refused to read those rules, because you refuse to actually interface with the debate here while still acting like an ass about it.
Our rules, which are in place for good reasons, state Kratos cannot be used to scale to Shovel Knight due to the disparity in their power levels. That is what I said. Not whatever it is you've been babbling about.
ShionAH
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What about the hax and resistances?
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Just going to say **** off, and see if the rest of the concurring side handles the rest
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ShionAH
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Kratos has CM in all his attacks
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Also, guys behave!
Mr. Bambu
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Well, my opinion is that that this just isn't canon outright, because our rules would classify it as such.
If y'all were to rewrite all of our rules to allow more very silly things, then it's possible, depending on the contexts of those. That would need a more in-depth discussion, but at the moment that's not necessary, since, again, this isn't allowed fundamentally.
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There's goblinism running rampant here!
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He can attack on a conceptual level with his bare hands but we don't auto-assume it for all his attacks.
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As the fight is an outlier, SK wouldn't get anything through fighting Kratos.
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- Thread starter
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Damn, I just about said something about this that'd get me banned lmfao
ShionAH
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Weird
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I totally forgot to mention this but yes. Kratos doesn't just go willy-nilly using CM Type 3 on every living thing he sees right of the bat, and even then, it's an active process, it ain't passive.
So even assuming all of this got an instant green light, you'd be very hard-pressed to find Kratos in a situation where he just gobbles up souls and what have you for personal gain right off the bat.
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I should not be awake currently, but since I am and I can see the recent discussions on here, I'm going to take a moment to say that things are getting far more hostile than they need to be.
We've all seen threads like this time and time again, where it starts with a controversial proposal, moves into a debate, creates greater and greater polarisation and hostility, and eventually someone ends up doing something that ends up on the RVRT.
Please, everyone, have some foresight. We've seen this happen before. If you agree that it's not something that should happen, then do what is necessary to not be the person who ends up on the RVRT. Take a breather, get a glass of water, take some time away from the computer. Whatever suits you.
We've all seen threads like this time and time again, where it starts with a controversial proposal, moves into a debate, creates greater and greater polarisation and hostility, and eventually someone ends up doing something that ends up on the RVRT.
Please, everyone, have some foresight. We've seen this happen before. If you agree that it's not something that should happen, then do what is necessary to not be the person who ends up on the RVRT. Take a breather, get a glass of water, take some time away from the computer. Whatever suits you.
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