Coyote Starrk vs Ulquiorra Cifer - Bleach Goonery Incarnate

[Deceived3596]

Conditions:

SBA
Res Starrk and Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra are used.

Profiles:

Coyote Starrk

vs

Ulquiorra Cifer

Voting:

Starrk -

Cifer -

Incon -

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Delete this bud.

 

[zylieo]

Starrk due to Ulquiorra's own statement of the rest 3 Espadas being higher than him.

 

[Malekith]

Delete this bud.

.

 

[Deceived3596]

Starrk due to Ulquiorra's own statement of the rest 3 Espadas being higher than him.

Read both profiles and come back to me bub.

 

[Tyri456]

Starrk one shots

 

[Naeblis495]

Starrk bring out the wolves GG

 

[zylieo]

Read both profiles and come back to me bub.

Author's intent solos VSBW profiles

 

[Tyri456]

doesn’t starrk profile say that he is above Ulquiorra’s lanza? So even by going with that he wins. Given he is > Ulquiorra’s best attack

Although personally, I see base starrk vs 2nd res Ulquiorra as better match up, unsmaked stated shunsui needed to use the full capabilities of his shikai and if it was 1vs1 would have used bankai, on top with the helps of multiple vizards to help shunsui landing attacks on Starrk.

 

[Deceived3596]

Author's intent solos VSBW profiles

Copium.

doesn’t starrk profile say that he is above Ulquiorra’s lanza? So even by going with that he wins. Given he is > Ulquiorra’s best attack

Although personally, I see base starrk vs 2nd res Ulquiorra as better match up, unsmaked stated shunsui needed to use the full capabilities of his shikai and if it was 1vs1 would have used bankai, on top with the helps of multiple vizards to help shunsui landing attacks on Starrk.

Only Starrk's wolves are above Lanza. Interms of AP, Ulquiorra has a 10x natural advantage, with him scaling to 44 petatons while Res Starrk only scales to 4.3 petatons. With how our profiles are currently structured, Starrk would need to use Cero Oscuras or Gran Rey Cero to match Ulquiorra's basic physicals, much less his CO which is 10x above his already massively higher physicals. Hence why this match is actually contentious, and is not an instant oneshot for Starrk.

 

[Tyri456]

Only Starrk's wolves are above Lanza. Interms of AP, Ulquiorra has a 10x natural advantage, with him scaling to 44 petatons while Res Starrk only scales to 4.3 petatons. With how our profiles are currently structured, Starrk would need to use Cero Oscuras or Gran Rey Cero to match Ulquiorra's basic physicals, much less his CO which is 10x above his already massively higher physicals. Hence why this match is actually contentious, and is not an instant oneshot for Starrk.

Having that much difference between starrk’s wolf and his res stats is just narratively wrong.

Additionaly, base stark should back scale to 443 pentatons, given he was way faster than a no-eyepatch zaraki, meaning he would scale above his AP too, due to reiastu rule.

A weaker zaraki than the one that could not tag starrk could cut yammy’s leg like butter, when unsmaked stated already that yammy was superior to 2nd res ulquiorra given he was already appeared.

Unsmaked also avoid to mention barragan and starrk already blatantly imply ulquiorra ain’t on the level of the top 2 espada, which is also clear using later source such as CFYOW.

 

[Reio35]

Ulqqiorra due to matching VL ichigos ceros with his own and tanking his cero point blank

 

[Tyri456]

Reio voted Ulquiorra, checkmate Deceived, now Starrk is objectively the winner

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Starrk should win as he’s stronger overall due to how Espada rankings work and his best attack is stronger than Ulq’s best attack.

But based in the profiles, for whatever reason, R2 Ulq’s AP/Dura and speed are considered higher than Res Starrk.

Also seems to be a mistake on Starrk’s page with his Base and Res scaling to the same value

 

[Reio35]

Starrk should win as he’s stronger overall due to how Espada rankings work and his best attack is stronger than Ulq’s best attack.

But based in the profiles, for whatever reason, R2 Ulq’s AP/Dura and speed are considered higher than Res Starrk.

Also seems to be a mistake on Starrk’s page with his Base and Res scaling to the same value

Their is no mistake it's right just the way it is

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Their is mistake it's right just the way it is

Why would Base Starrk and Res Starrk scale to the exact same value of 4.435 Petatons when quite literally every other Espada scales to a higher value with their Res?

Granted on the profiles for some reason they have Res as a barely above 1.1x amp when there's statements of Res being relative to Bankai and in verse scaling of Espada 6's Res scaling above his Base Gran Rey Cero by feats (Masked Ichigo casually blocking Grimmjow's GRC with no issue but getting badly wounded by Res Grimmjow), and in verse statements putting Espada 4 and up's Res as comparable to GRC's in the aspect of nuking Las Noches.) But that's something for a CRT

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Having that much difference between starrk’s wolf and his res stats is just narratively wrong.

narrative = it came to me in a dream, lmao

Additionaly, base stark should back scale to 443 pentatons, given he was way faster than a no-eyepatch zaraki, meaning he would scale above his AP too, due to reiastu rule.

Do speed mains not exist? Also that no-eyepatch Zaraki wasn't the same one who fought Yammy, dawg.

Unsmaked also avoid to mention barragan and starrk already blatantly imply ulquiorra ain’t on the level of the top 2 espada, which is also clear using later source such as CFYOW.

what are you even talking about here? what statement

Ulqqiorra due to matching VL ichigos ceros with his own and tanking his cero point blank

did you read the fight? "Matching VL Ichigo's ceros" isn't actually a feat, because his ******* ceros quashed Ulquiorras. Also, this is about what's on the actual profiles... don't bring up new scaling. Make a CRT if you disagree

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Also seems to be a mistake on Starrk’s page with his Base and Res scaling to the same value

It's not, it's about how multiplier standards work for bleach. His doesn't really meet the qualifications to be at that level.

Anyways, operating within these profiles' confines, I think Ulquiorra wins. Yes, his AP is less than Starrk's wolves even with Lanza, but thinking about how a fight would actually go, Ulquiorra is significantly faster, and his physicals are 10x stronger than Starrk's durability. The way I honestly see this fight go is Ulquiorra outspeeds, and eventually one shots him before he has the time to pull off his technique

 

[Jo-Smooth]

It's not, it's about how multiplier standards work for bleach. His doesn't really meet the qualifications to be at that level.

Like I said I feel like there should be a CRT. If Blut Vene/Arterie gets a full 5x Bankai tier multiplier from a throwaway transition card from the anime, I feel like there’s enough justification from in verse statements and scaling for Res also getting a full multiplier

Especially with Grimmjow objectively showing his Res amp > GRC > Cero Oscuras = 10x and alternatively that his Res amp to his Base is ~ Ichigo’s Mask amp relative to his Bankai

And then 4 and up having Res considered more potent than Grimmjow since he can’t passively emit more power than a GRC/Las Noches busting from simply just releasing

All that aside rn based on profiles Ulq wins unless Starrk out battle IQ’s Ulq which idk how to compare their IQ.

But now putting profiles aside and tryna figure out what’s actually correct in the context of the story, isn’t the objective databook statement saying Starrk is worthy of being Espada 1 (aka the 2nd strongest Espada) + the objective databook statement that the rankings are correct + the somewhat objective (aka made my a character in story but used as exposition for the reader) manga statement that the rankings are not just based on power alone but overall combat ability as well + Cien in verse scaling Starrk (as well as Barragan and Yammy) above R2 Ulq + Ulq himself (someone who’s always matter of fact and never once lied in the story iirc) saying there are 3 Espada stronger than him not enough evidence for Starrk being stronger?

And going back to the profiles, let’s say Ulq does have the superior stats. Wouldn’t Starrk’s overall combat ability being rated over Ulq by Aizen (who did know about R2 despite Ulq not ‘showing’ the form to Aizen) mean that Starrk is more likely to win regardless?

 

[Reio35]

Like I said I feel like there should be a CRT. If Blut Vene/Arterie gets a full 5x Bankai tier multiplier from a throwaway transition card from the anime, I feel like there’s enough justification from in verse statements and scaling for Res also getting a full multiplier

Especially with Grimmjow objectively showing his Res amp > GRC > Cero Oscuras = 10x and alternatively that his Res amp to his Base is ~ Ichigo’s Mask amp relative to his Bankai

And then 4 and up having Res considered more potent than Grimmjow since he can’t passively emit more power than a GRC/Las Noches busting from simply just releasing

All that aside rn based on profiles Ulq wins unless Starrk out battle IQ’s Ulq which idk how to compare their IQ.

But now putting profiles aside and tryna figure out what’s actually correct in the context of the story, isn’t the objective databook statement saying Starrk is worthy of being Espada 1 (aka the 2nd strongest Espada) + the objective databook statement that the rankings are correct + the somewhat objective (aka made my a character in story but used as exposition for the reader) manga statement that the rankings are not just based on power alone but overall combat ability as well + Cien in verse scaling Starrk (as well as Barragan and Yammy) above R2 Ulq + Ulq himself (someone who’s always matter of fact and never once lied in the story iirc) saying there are 3 Espada stronger than him not enough evidence for Starrk being stronger?

Cein doesn't say that yammy and starrk are more powerful then ulqqiorra. That was before he remember ichigo and ulqqiorra's final transformations. Which he deemed were the most probably/strongest forms she would copy.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/856751253555511337/1042950910801874994/Screenshot_2022-11-17-17-49-06.png

And going back to the profiles, let’s say Ulq does have the superior stats. Wouldn’t Starrk’s overall combat ability being rated over Ulq by Aizen (who did know about R2 despite Ulq not ‘showing’ the form to Aizen) mean that Starrk is more likely to win regardless?

Nothing ever states aizen knew of SE. Literally head cannon. Their would no point of kubo saying aizen hasn't seen SE if he someone how knew about. Cope

 

[Tyri456]

narrative = it came to me in a dream, lmao

Do speed mains not exist? Also that no-eyepatch Zaraki wasn't the same one who fought Yammy, dawg.

what are you even talking about here? what statement

Exactly, they are not the same because the one that could not tag starrk was STRONGER.

The zaraki that cut yammy’s leg is exactly after one shotting nnoitra, and he put even his eyepatch on, so for once, he didn’t get any boots cus he literally fought no one in the meantime, just basic knowledge how zaraki get his boost, and for second, he nerfed himself because he put the eyepatch on which is where the major of his power is sealed. However when he get horribly blitzed by starrk, he was completely unleashed of his eyepatch and still post Nnoitra Fight.

Starrk isn’t a speed main, he was just casually blitinzg zaraki with no eyepatch in base because he is the strongest Espada, I can post 10+ statements that proves objectively speed is linked to reiastu anyway.

the statement I’m talking about is even on yammy profile, unsmaked literally stated he surpassed ulquiorra, and that was after ulquiorra was 2nd resurrection. Never mentioned he surpassed starrk or barragan, he surpass them only after getting rage boost.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Starrk isn’t a speed main, he was just casually blitinzg zaraki with no eyepatch in base because he is the strongest Espada, I can post 10+ statements that proves objectively speed is linked to reiastu anyway.

go make a crt if you want dawg, this is based on the profiles . IDC if you think that Starrk is the strongest or not, it's about the profiles as they are now.

Like I said I feel like there should be a CRT. If Blut Vene/Arterie gets a full 5x Bankai tier multiplier from a throwaway transition card from the anime, I feel like there’s enough justification from in verse statements and scaling for Res also getting a full multiplier

FYM "throwaway transition card from the anime" This is the lamest and dumbest attempt to discredit evidence.

But now putting profiles aside and tryna figure out what’s actually correct in the context of the story, isn’t the objective databook statement saying Starrk is worthy of being Espada 1 (aka the 2nd strongest Espada)

What it actually says is the ability he used was worthy of the 1 rank. That's the wolves. The wolves are stated by starrk to be his own ability. Anyways, don't derail the thread with this stuff.

Cein doesn't say that yammy and starrk are more powerful then ulqqiorra. That was before he remember ichigo and ulqqiorra's final transformations. Which he deemed were the most probably/strongest forms she would copy.

OMFG Reio... this is that missing context shit, AGAIN. He says copying from that fight would've been good, because it would imply copying Ichigo... You haven't read SAFWY dawg

Everyone thinks Yammy is stronger than ******* Ulquiorra, and Starrk's wolves are confirmed to be a rank 1 level power. Stop gooning for Ulquiorra.

The zaraki that cut yammy’s leg is exactly after one shotting nnoitra,

He got healed after this? and again... don't derail the thread with this stuff.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

go make a crt if you want dawg, this is based on the profiles . IDC if you think that Starrk is the strongest or not, it's about the profiles as they are now.


FYM "throwaway transition card from the anime" This is the lamest and dumbest attempt to discredit evidence.


What it actually says is the ability he used was worthy of the 1 rank. That's the wolves. The wolves are stated by starrk to be his own ability. Anyways, don't derail the thread with this stuff.

Its based on the profiles yea, which I already said by profiles Ulq most likely wins. But idrc about the profiles if they're incorrect, I care about what's actually correct in the context of the story. The other CRT I made regarding speed scaling and abilities hasn't even been looked at by many people so idek if there's a point in doing one for this anyways. And that CRT is simply using speed scaling that's already on the profiles and ability additions that aren't controversial and are all displayed on panel, which should be easier to get through than something involving multipliers.

I didn't discredit it as evidence, you missed the entire point. I never even said I disagreed. I'm saying there's more evidence from statements, in verse scaling/feats that have Res as relative to Bankai/Superior to Gran Rey Cero which is > Cero Oscuras which is 10x the user's current output.

If a throwaway transition card could get Blut to Bankai's 5x with far less evidence and statements, how would that not apply to Res which has far more concrete evidence?

Also I don't read Japanese but the profile literally has the translation as this "その力を引き出すために見せた実力は"1"の名に恥じないものだった for the sake of drawing out that power, [Stark] displayed his true power worthy of the title Number 1 ~ Arc"

With "that power' in context meaning Kyoraku's Bankai. And Starrk was trying to get Kyoraku to use his Bankai ever since Toshiro used his, way before he used the wolves. He didn't even pull those out against Kyoraku. In fact, the first thing he did after showing interest in Toshiro and Kyoraku's Bankai was going into Res, which is more likely what the statement is talking about rather than the profile arbitrarily assuming it's the wolves, which doesn't make sense in context as Starrk actually never used that ability against Kyoraku.

So Starrk's Res which was used to bring out Kyoraku's true power is worthy of being Espada 1 and his ability scales even higher than a hypothetical Gran Rey Cero from Res Starrk would.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

その力を引き出すために見せた実力は"1"の名に恥じないものだった

実力 = 1. (real) ability; true strength; merit; efficiency; competency

still makes sense to what arc said

 

[Jo-Smooth]

実力 = 1. (real) ability; true strength; merit; efficiency; competency

still makes sense to what arc said

With no context it makes sense, but in context it doesn’t. I skimmed through the fight again just to make sure I wasn’t capping. Starrk never once used the Wolves on Kyoraku. The first thing he does after saying he wants Kyoraku to use his Bankai is go into Res. He used the wolves on Love and Rose, but when Kyoraku appeared again, he still never used them on him.

The statement was most likely referring to him going into Res as his ‘true power’. Things like the wolves are likely considered in the same way as Oscuras, GRC, Lanza etc as singular techniques that scale above the user as special techniques but not considered the true power the consistently fight with

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I vote for Starrk

 

[LordGinSama]

Battle of the emos and goths.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Battle of the goats