Sonic fights Robotnik.....but thats not Robotnik (Lance (Epic Battle Fantasy) vs Sonic the Hedgehog)

[Topaz404]

God i hope this isnt a stomp/mismatch
ANYWAYS

Story: Robotnik wants to go on vacation, and he hired Lance to cause Sonic trouble while hes off. Lance of course does so for money and now has to face the Blue Blur
Lance is using his EBF5 key (2-C)
Sonic is in his Sonic and the Secret Rings (Sonic Free Riders), Base only (for now) (Low 2-C). Edit to mention Sonic has been granted 12 Rings
Speed equalized, SBA for everything else

The Gunman: 0

The Blue Blur: 0

inconclusive: 0​

 

[LaserPrecision]

I guess I'll tune in for this. Don't really know anything about Lance.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Does Sonic's resistance to Fate/Plot Manipulation go up to 5-D? Because if it isn't at least 5-D, then Lance stomps because of his passive 5-D fate/plot hax from the player.

 

[Topaz404]

Plot Manip is 5D? Well damn I wish I knew that earlier

 

[Topaz404]

The obligatory daily bump of many. I guess ill ask what Sonic starts with in this key

 

[Topaz404]

Alright time to bump again lol

 

[Deidalius]

Since when Lance has 5D fate/plot hax?

 

[Topaz404]

Something something Player controlling fate something. Ima let Psycho explain if they would like to

 

[Topaz404]

Good grief, its another bump!

 

[Topaz404]

God i nearly forgot about this. gonna bump again, wanna see how this turns out
Again, what does Sonic start with if faced with Lance?

 

[LaserPrecision]

What's the specifics of how this plot manip works? The profile doesn't really link anything to it, so I don't exactly have an example to go off of.

 

[Topaz404]

What's the specifics of how this plot manip works? The profile doesn't really link anything to it, so I don't exactly have an example to go off of.

Ok, so, basically, in the EBF universe, the Player is canon to the story and is essentially guiding the party towards the end of their adventure. the final boss of EBF5 even mentions it when your fighting it

(this is the mediocre TLDR of it. kinda weird but ive seen worse)

 

[LaserPrecision]

Ok, so, basically, in the EBF universe, the Player is canon to the story and is essentially guiding the party towards the end of their adventure. the final boss of EBF5 even mentions it when your fighting it

What's the extent the player "guides" the party? Can they pull some Looney Tunes stuff and rewrite the plot? Or is it less potent?

 

[Flashlight237]

Doesn't the difference in tiering make this a stomp in Lance's favor anyway? I mean it's Low 2-C vs 2-C; what the heck are you trying to do here?

 

[Topaz404]

Doesn't the difference in tiering make this a stomp in Lance's favor anyway? I mean it's Low 2-C vs 2-C; what the heck are you trying to do here?

You want me to change the Sonic key to one of the plain 2-C keys then?
Never mind, Sonic has only Low 2-C for 2-C. Lance really only scales to 2 universes though (i dont see why he also isnt Low 2-C)

What's the extent the player "guides" the party? Can they pull some Looney Tunes stuff and rewrite the plot? Or is it less potent?

I mean it is stated in the profile what it does. Player controls their fates to ensure a win over the Devourer. Moreso by providing them with the Immo Type 8 if anything
This Sonic key should resist that no?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Low 2-C vs 2-C isn't a problem as long as OP clarifies Sonic has Rings and the amount he's got, as around 6-12 grants Low 1-C Damage Transferal (and for those who may misunderstand, you don't actually need Low 1-C AP to make Sonic characters drop their Rings. It simply protects them up to that level of damage. Hence why they can still harm one another and aren't constantly stonewalling). @Topaz404 Up to you basically

You want me to change the Sonic key to one of the plain 2-C keys then?
Never mind, Sonic has only Low 2-C for 2-C.

You could use Super Sonic's Low 2-C end, but I think that runs the risk of a stomp due to his higher-end hax and Invul.

This Sonic key should resist that no?

Yessir, he resists Plot/Fate shenanigans due to him resisting the path set for him once he was added to the story when entering the Arabian Nights reality.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah i think to make this a little more fair, 6-12 rings should make it so that Lance doesnt just shoot Sonic in the face once and win, still Base Form (Super Sonic just seems like overkill in my opinion)

Anyways, ill add the clarification of Sonic having the rings in the OP. Now to clarify, if Sonic does have this amount, what would Lance need to do in order to bypass the Damage Transferal? Continue shooting?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Now to clarify, if Sonic does have this amount, what would Lance need to do in order to bypass the Damage Transferal? Continue shooting?

Yup. Essentially just land attacks to damage Sonic as he would normally, which will consume a few Rings per successful hit. It's essentially a buffer zone before Sonic starts taking actual lethal damage, potentially allowing for Sonic to notice the difference in strength and react accordingly instead of being one-shot to oblivion (as is the curse of a CQC-centric character)

 

[Topaz404]

Alrighty, awesome, now that crisis has been averted i can finally ask properly
Given this situation, what would be Sonic's first action? Lance will probably try and use Information Analysis to figure out what Sonic can do, and what flavor of bullet works best

 

[ShakeResounding]

Given this situation, what would be Sonic's first action? Lance will probably try and use Information Analysis to figure out what Sonic can do, and what flavor of bullet works best

For Sonic, he'll aim to close the distance and engage Lance in CQC. Most commonly, he'll intersperse uses of the Spin Dash and his Boost within combat (the latter of which is at least a x4 amp, with the Boost being a x8 amp). Spin Dash is of particular note, as Sonic often employs the technique as a movement tool in... very unique ways that may make it hard to land a hit on him so long as his concentration doesn't lapse.

Just wanna clarify; Sonic does NOT have access to Shahra's Ring, correct? (That'd give him a few extra abilities and improved acrobatics, in-character time stop, and virtually infinite Immo Type 2 [Soul Gauge Energy being restored by simply running, with said energy substituting for Sonic's health when he has no Rings for a continuous loop]).

 

[Topaz404]

For the Ring, Lance does resist Time Manip via the Pocket Watch (Slow Down is, well, a time based Stun and resisting Stun in general makes it useful for resisting Slow Down), but that's its EBF4 variant. Well, Lance should have all the keys so the Pocket Watch also grants Haste (multiple actions in a turn), which ive seen described as a time based speed amp (cant tell by how much), though the infinite Immo Type 2 may give Lance some issues

Anyways
Lance will be the one trying to make distance as his CQC skills are not as good as his shooting skills, but since he has standard equipment, hes gonna have Neon Valkyrie, along with his arsenal of differing elemental guns and armors
If i may ask, ill list some of the disabling status effects Lance can inflict with his guns
Stun (Stun is obvious, you cant move. He can inflict this with Thunder Core and various summons)
Freeze (Also is like Stun. He can pull this off with the Sub Zero gun and various summons)
Dispel/Syphon (i believe both of these would be Power Null. Dispel gets rid of buffs if Lance uses it on Sonic, and Syphon disallows use of most skills while inflicted. Dispel is from Vortex Cannon, and Syphon from Crystal Wing)
Soul Pistol allows him to drain health from Sonic as long as he's constantly shooting him (not a status but it works)
Biohazard Blaster inflicts Virus (Bio Manip) which will get worse over time if Sonic doesnt get rid of it
Spine Snapper and Super Snipe finally have Instant Death, which, as the name suggest, is Death Manip

I just wanted to get these out of the way first so i know which debilitating statuses would be resisted (theres also Weak/Tired/Curse that will also over time reduce his stats as well)

 

[ShakeResounding]

If i may ask, ill list some of the disabling status effects Lance can inflict with his guns

Of course, feel free

Stun (Stun is obvious, you cant move. He can inflict this with Thunder Core and various summons)

Sonic can struggle against Silver's TK hold that applies Paralysis Inducement, keyword struggle. The only counter to this that Sonic has would be Chaos Control's teleportation, which he's more than inclined to spam if need be if his back is against the wall.

Freeze (Also is like Stun. He can pull this off with the Sub Zero gun and various summons)

Sonic can quickly break out of being flash-frozen.

Dispel/Syphon (i believe both of these would be Power Null. Dispel gets rid of buffs if Lance uses it on Sonic, and Syphon disallows use of most skills while inflicted. Dispel is from Vortex Cannon, and Syphon from Crystal Wing)

Dispel would be able to negate some items from Sonic's Item Boxes that amplify his stats, such as the Speed Shoes. I believe usage of thinks like his Elemental Shields would still be fair game. May I ask, to what extent does it disallow skills? From external equipment, innate skills, etc.?

Soul Pistol allows him to drain health from Sonic as long as he's constantly shooting him (not a status but it works)

Fair. Sonic can only answer it with his own healing, which he accomplishes by vibrating at high speeds.

Biohazard Blaster inflicts Virus (Bio Manip) which will get worse over time if Sonic doesnt get rid of it

I don't think Sonic resists Bio Manip yet as of this key, so that would be a valid method. How does one berid the affliction?

Spine Snapper and Super Snipe finally have Instant Death, which, as the name suggest, is Death Manip

No answer to this one except the speedrun equivalent of "lol don't get hit" (assuming it requires a hit and isn't some effect that he can just put on Sonic)

I just wanted to get these out of the way first so i know which debilitating statuses would be resisted (theres also Weak/Tired/Curse that will also over time reduce his stats as well)

Sonic resists Curse Manip, and the Spin Dash resists speed penalties, but the rest is fair game. Acquiring a few Rings from Item Boxes would rejuvenate him, and Chaos Emeralds can actively bestow energy, but that's about it.

 

[Topaz404]

Never expected many of the statuses to do much, but if Lance wants the distance, he's inclined to spam them to keep his distance.

So it would seem that Stun wont work if Sonic's gonna be spam teleporting out of it, which is fair. Freeze is the same if he can just break out of being flash frozen- alright

As for Syphon, if it's on a player (like Lance for example) he is locked out of all of his skills EXCEPT for his basic swing attack. Enemies are reduced to their basic attacks as well (Like, spell casting enemies are reduced to basic attacks.). I guess the best way to describe Syphon is just like a magic muting ability. I dont know what it would do when put on Sonic (as Sonic really isnt an RPG enemy), but i think its gonna hinder a lot (but if it disables enemy magic in game, that would probably mean innate skills)

Dispel only works if Sonic has any buffs on him, in which it would just do nothing otherwise

Soul Pistol would really only work if Lance hits his attacks, but given the fact that he's going to be firing alongside his tank, the bullet spam might allow him to get some shots in on accident.

Anyways, Virus doesnt work like other statuses, instead of going away, it does more damage until 9 stacks (max stacks) are applies and do maximum damage. If Sonic is tired as well, it does even more damage. It can also spread to Lance over time and if he's close (though Lance can stack certain equips to absorb Bio damage (yeah if your resist percentage is above a certain amount in EBF, you absorb the damage (if not a little slightly)), but along with Regeneration- Lance may be able win like that. Its gonna take a while but a wincon is a wincon (oh yeah Virus can be cured by basic cleansing spells (like Natalies's Cleanse, Lance's Medipack/Medistrike, Purify, fkin GARLIC), but if Sonic has none of those tough luck for him)

Also Spine Snapper/Super Snipe i forgot to mention also pertains to his skills that use the weapon's element/statuses- so in addition to his basic attacks it would also help with Sniper, Double Shot, Unload, and i believe Hyper Beam- but in general yeah Lance would need to hit his shots for the chance for Instant Death to proc (because its only a chance to happen, but he can boost it with Lock On (skill that boosts accuracy and gives Good Luck)

((Hyper Beam is a skill he needs to charge, but once its done, he can fire off a beeg laser))

So it would seem both have a way to win. Sonic wants to get close and dominate in CQC, and Lance wants to keep distance and use statuses to slow Sonic down or kill him

 

[Omegabronic]

I don't think Sonic resists Bio Manip yet as of this key, so that would be a valid method. How does one berid the affliction?

he does actually, since the classic era

No answer to this one except the speedrun equivalent of "lol don't get hit" (assuming it requires a hit and isn't some effect that he can just put on Sonic)

To add on this, Sonic's reaction speed is 4x his own combat speed, the spin dash and boost are gogablitzes to that, as it makes people who blitzed Sonic seem nearly frozen from his perspective, so that would make actually hitting Sonic pretty darn hard

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

he does actually, since the classic era

Classic does not have bio resist in base on his page

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah im doing Base only for Sonic, sorry

 

[Deidalius]

What equipment will Lance start with? I don't think we should assume he starts with the most optimal equipment for fighting Sonic since he isn't prepared and he can't wear all of his equipment at once. That and he also takes a turn to switch equipment.

 

[Topaz404]

First of all, turns are game mechanics- and secondly- how do we define what a "turn" is in EBF? Do we do the standard DND turn time of 6 seconds? Or do we use the time it takes for Lance to complete the gear swap animations

As for what Lance starts with,, probably his default gear (Officers set plus Shadow Blaster) along with Neon Valkyrie of course. Unsure of what Valk is gonna do besides provide cover fire and launch a nuke every so often

 

[Deidalius]

First of all, turns are game mechanics- and secondly- how do we define what a "turn" is in EBF? Do we do the standard DND turn time of 6 seconds? Or do we use the time it takes for Lance to complete the gear swap animations

As for what Lance starts with,, probably his default gear (Officers set plus Shadow Blaster) along with Neon Valkyrie of course. Unsure of what Valk is gonna do besides provide cover fire and launch a nuke every so often

We could probably treat turns like whatever time the characters take to do something at their speed tiers in this wiki. So like, imagine turns don't exist and they're just fighting immediately without taking turns. That's how I see it.

 

[Topaz404]

We could probably treat turns like whatever time the characters take to do something at their speed tiers in this wiki. So like, imagine turns don't exist and they're just fighting immediately without taking turns. That's how I see it.

I mean speed is equalized anyways (to prevent the obvious speedblitz), so it shouldnt take Lance that long to swap to an set of gear that would suit his needs- not to mention he could ride on Valkyrie as well (it should share his speed as well), so he only has to focus on shooting/swapping equipment

And also Scan will help yes yes

 

[Omegabronic]

Classic does not have bio resist in base on his page

he does, look at the poison resistance description, it mentions Bio Manip as well right next to it, "Chemical products" link to it at least

Yeah im doing Base only for Sonic, sorry

Classic Sonic is Base Sonic tho? just him but younger

 

[Topaz404]

I dont think resisting chemical products and poisons would make you resistant to what is quoted as a "deadly virus" in my own opinion

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Snip

Aight then. I was only looking for something along the lines of "Biological Manipulation" in the text, not the actual links, so fair enough

 

[Topaz404]

Well, if Sonic does outright resist Bio Manip in general, then Virus stall wont work then. Well, Lance still has options thankfully

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

I dont think resisting chemical products and poisons would make you resistant to what is quoted as a "deadly virus" in my own opinion

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Topaz404]

But yeah. Lance has a lot of fast attacks (mainly with bullets and magic) that can affect an area. Bombs, bigger bombs, and literal manufactured nuke from his tank (yes, Neon Valkyrie can just manufacture nukes to launch with no responsibility)

Also, Lance can summon Flybots (from both his 2nd encounter (without Valk)), and just in general as a summon. They can do fun stuff like flipping buffs and debuffs with Recycle. So if you have +50 attack, and you get hit with Recycle, you now have -50 attack (and vice versa)
So if Sonic is speed amping himself to hell and back, and he gets hit with Recycle.....what would happen lol

(i dont know what Recycle would do in a VSBW sense, Stats Reduction?)

 

[LaserPrecision]

But yeah. Lance has a lot of fast attacks (mainly with bullets and magic) that can affect an area. Bombs, bigger bombs, and literal manufactured nuke from his tank (yes, Neon Valkyrie can just manufacture nukes to launch with no responsibility)

Also, Lance can summon Flybots (from both his 2nd encounter (without Valk)), and just in general as a summon. They can do fun stuff like flipping buffs and debuffs with Recycle. So if you have +50 attack, and you get hit with Recycle, you now have -50 attack (and vice versa)
So if Sonic is speed amping himself to hell and back, and he gets hit with Recycle.....what would happen lol

(i dont know what Recycle would do in a VSBW sense, Stats Reduction?)

How much of Lance's stuff is projectile/contact based? With the skill difference and Sonic's sheer acrobatics, he could unironically evade almost any attack thrown his way. Especially after learning his opponents fighting style. If it's stuff that just spawns on the opponent it's more difficult admittedly.

 

[Deidalius]

But yeah. Lance has a lot of fast attacks (mainly with bullets and magic) that can affect an area. Bombs, bigger bombs, and literal manufactured nuke from his tank (yes, Neon Valkyrie can just manufacture nukes to launch with no responsibility)

Also, Lance can summon Flybots (from both his 2nd encounter (without Valk)), and just in general as a summon. They can do fun stuff like flipping buffs and debuffs with Recycle. So if you have +50 attack, and you get hit with Recycle, you now have -50 attack (and vice versa)
So if Sonic is speed amping himself to hell and back, and he gets hit with Recycle.....what would happen lol

(i dont know what Recycle would do in a VSBW sense, Stats Reduction?)

Recycle would probably turn all the speed amps Sonic has into speed downgrades

So yeah, if Sonic tries to make himself faster by a certain percentage or multiplicative amount, Lance would just easily make those amps have the opposite effect and make Sonic slower instead

 

[Omegabronic]

Recycle would probably turn all the speed amps Sonic has into speed downgrades

So yeah, if Sonic tries to make himself faster by a certain percentage or multiplicative amount, Lance would just easily make those amps have the opposite effect and make Sonic slower instead

Nah, spin dash resists that

 

[Topaz404]

Nah, spin dash resists that

How exactly, might i ask?