TenSura WN Major Revision - Part 1

[Astral_Trinity439]

Introduction​

Hello everyone, hope ya'll are doing good. Since no one seems to care for WN version of TenSura right now, or at least almost no one, I thought why not clear some misconceptions about the narrative while I wait for the new Tiering System to get implemented. For that, there will be around 4~5 threads focused on revising the abilities and other things about WN, each focused on a single topic to avoid derailing.
As always, please refrain from any toxic behavior and unnecessarily derailing the thread.

Credits to @Meli_Tempest for helping with and being a part of the project

Table of Contents​

The proposals for this CRT are explained here :

Astral Trinity439/Veldanava and The Great Holy Spirit

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's a TL;DR of the proposals :

• The WoG is extremely inconsistent with the Narrative in every way.
• Veldanava and the Great Holy Spirit are the same thing.
• Veldanava created the Great Spirits and the Entire World that contains the several parallel Worlds.
• The End of Space and Time is the End of the Entire World, including the Great Spirits.
• Rimuru's Immortality Type 1 is of a Higher Degree.

The results of this are the following :

• Rimuru gets back his Nonduality Type 1.
• Rimuru's Immortality Type 1 in his True Dragon Key gets changed into a Higher Degree of Type 1.
• Rimuru gets back his Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 in his End of Series Key. Additionally, capability to create Great Spirits is to be added to his Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 in his True Dragon Key and End of Series Key, simply because Turn Null in itself is capable of creating Great Spirits.

Note : While I also clarified this in the sandbox, just to make it clear
During the discussion of this thread, no attempt should be made to upgrade the Cosmology, as that will not only prolong the thread, but also cause derailment. A Cosmology Upgrade Thread will be made later, so please be patient!

Votes ​

Agree :

Disagree :

Neutral :

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Agreed of course

 

[Tempestdragon6]

agree

 

[MrTim]

Сooked

agree

 

[Berga14]

Agree

 

[Shiraito983]

i Agree with this

 

[CodeCCLL]

Note that in this CRT, I will only be using scans from the Japanese RAW, and translated by DeepL. The reason should be fairly obvious, but for those new to this, its because the Unofficial Translation has betrayed us in its reliability with how it translated an important part of the novel wrongly, along with many other Mistranslations that were left unnoticed and will be brought by me in the Future.

Can't you understand that such a thing could never be accepted by the wiki administration, and that if you prove that the fan translation is grossly inaccurate, the verse should be deleted from the wiki forever, as it has no acceptable translation?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Can't you understand that such a thing could never be accepted by the wiki administration, and that if you prove that the fan translation is grossly inaccurate, the verse should be deleted from the wiki forever, as it has no acceptable translation?

Its not that it is entireIy inaccurate, just, one shouId aIways check the RAWS before using a scan just in case, at the very Ieast, the ones used for granting important/major abiIities mentioned onIy a few times in the web noveI

Even in a new page I am making for WN, I am doubIe-checking aImost every scan from the RAWs just to make sure no scan has a transIation error

AdditionaIIy, the scans used in this case have mostIy the same transIation as in the previous transIation, weII, except the few I have highIighted out, Iike the End of Space-Time one

and Ive provided the reference for every chapter, the RAW image, and even the RAW source, that is aII of a reason, not just there for presentation.

however, in the end, if it so much turns out that most of the fan transIation is inaccurate, I wouIdnt mind at aII a potentiaI proposaI for re-doing the verse from scratch, that is, if that happens of course.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Even in a new page I am making for WN, I am doubIe-checking aImost every scan from the RAWs just to make sure no scan has a transIation error

So you're sensitive about translations, but not about out-of-context scans, right?

which was likely done by the Energy capable of destroying The World[18] overtime even after Yuuki had died, that is, the Eternity that Ciel experienced[19].

The attack mentioned in the section I bolded is a combined attack by Guy and other characters to kill Yuuki. It has nothing to do with the "the Eternity that Ciel experienced".

This is just a part that randomly caught my eye.

 

[CodeCCLL]

To be really honest, I want to ignore this crt right now and make a crt on why the web novel should be deleted and address the continuity issues. (Poor quality and outdated pages, scaling issues, translation issues, declining interest in web novel continuity both inside and outside the wiki, and near-impossibility of reaching a common consensus due to the inconsistency of WoG and narrative)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The attack mentioned in the section I bolded is a combined attack by Guy and other characters to kill Yuuki. It has nothing to do with the "the Eternity that Ciel experienced".

It was to give an aIternate reason on why the entire worId was destroyed at the end of space and time. Sure CieI spending a higher degree eternity wouId mean the entire worId;s space-time eventuaIIy ended, however, that wouid be not enough to destroy the great spirit of Iight and darkness, that existed even before the great spirit of time, which is supposed to be the higher time dimension here as expIained in the sub-point next to the point you noted.

To be really honest, I want to ignore this crt right now and make a crt on why the web novel should be deleted and address the continuity issues. (Poor quality and outdated pages, scaling issues, translation issues, declining interest in web novel continuity both inside and outside the wiki, and near-impossibility of reaching a common consensus due to the inconsistency of WoG and narrative)

• Pages are outdated and the quaIity is poor, yes, but that can be soIved over time if someone is wiIIing to fix it. And if no one eIse is, I can fix them myseIf.
• ScaIing issues can be resoIved in the future threads, as I aIready cIarified in the introduction of this thread, these revisions are in parts, and the scaIing for the WN verse is a point of one of the future CRTs. If you stiII have issues with its scaIing, you can simpIy downgrade it by making another CRT.
• The web noveI stiII hasnt decIined that much. In fact, in the numerous comments I have come across on other sociaIs, there are more comments of peopIe using web noveI in vs-battIes then the Iight noveI.
• As I said above, transIation issues can simpIy be soIved by checking the raws for things that are simpIy mentioned once or twice in the WN.
• I dont remember when our wiki had put WoG above the actuaI noveI. In fact, if the WoG is inconsistent with the noveI, then it can very weII be ignored when needed with reasons Iike the author changed his mind or just that it doesnt foIIow the narrative consistency.

overaII, there arent any soIid reasons to deIete the entire Web NoveI verse just for this.

 

[Mizuki67]

It was to give an aIternate reason on why the entire worId was destroyed at the end of space and time. Sure CieI spending a higher degree eternity wouId mean the entire worId;s space-time eventuaIIy ended, however, that wouid be not enough to destroy the great spirit of Iight and darkness, that existed even before the great spirit of time, which is supposed to be the higher time dimension here as expIained in the sub-point next to the point you noted.

• Pages are outdated and the quaIity is poor, yes, but that can be soIved over time if someone is wiIIing to fix it. And if no one eIse is, I can fix them myseIf.
• ScaIing issues can be resoIved in the future threads, as I aIready cIarified in the introduction of this thread, these revisions are in parts, and the scaIing for the WN verse is a point of one of the future CRTs. If you stiII have issues with its scaIing, you can simpIy downgrade it by making another CRT.
• The web noveI stiII hasnt decIined that much. In fact, in the numerous comments I have come across on other sociaIs, there are more comments of peopIe using web noveI in vs-battIes then the Iight noveI.
• As I said above, transIation issues can simpIy be soIved by checking the raws for things that are simpIy mentioned once or twice in the WN.
• I dont remember when our wiki had put WoG above the actuaI noveI. In fact, if the WoG is inconsistent with the noveI, then it can very weII be ignored when needed with reasons Iike the author changed his mind or just that it doesnt foIIow the narrative consistency.

overaII, there arent any soIid reasons to deIete the entire Web NoveI verse just for this.

yeah I am with Astral here

 

[Meli_Tempest]

I'm with astral on this, deleting the WN from scratch is pretty overkill, I'm with astral trying to fix this version of the story, no need to delete it completely. Also it is a bit strange that you decide to delete it now that it is trying to fix things wrong and not all the time it was abandoned.

In any case this should not be discussed here, it can be discussed in the general discussion thread.

 

[CodeCCLL]

It was to give an aIternate reason on why the entire worId was destroyed at the end of space and time. Sure CieI spending a higher degree eternity wouId mean the entire worId;s space-time eventuaIIy ended, however, that wouid be not enough to destroy the great spirit of Iight and darkness, that existed even before the great spirit of time, which is supposed to be the higher time dimension here as expIained in the sub-point next to the point you noted.

The attack in the scan has nothing to do with what you said, this attack is already a 3-A attack that is easily absorbed by Yuuki's Beelzebub. Also, what is the purpose behind presenting abilities related to a higher temporal axis without making a thread related to it?

Spoiler: About Web Novel Continuity

Pages are outdated and the quaIity is poor, yes, but that can be soIved over time if someone is wiIIing to fix it. And if no one eIse is, I can fix them myseIf.

The problem is that this is not something that can be resolved easily or over time. Also, you are having a hard time even implementing the accepted changes in your own titles and you are making many mistakes. I'm not sure how you would overhaul the entire web novel continuity.

ScaIing issues can be resoIved in the future threads, as I aIready cIarified in the introduction of this thread, these revisions are in parts, and the scaIing for the WN verse is a point of one of the future CRTs. If you stiII have issues with its scaIing, you can simpIy downgrade it by making another CRT.

I don't think you fully understand the problems in the pages. Currently, quite a few of the characters who is Demon Lord level actually scale to Leon Cromwell's 6-A feat and this case completely ignores the fact that Mizari and Rain will not be compared to Leon Cromwell until they reach their Awakened Demon Lord level, and so it requires a complete overhaul of all profiles that have AP, durability, stamina, and striking strength ratings that are comparable to Leon Cromwell or characters comparable to him. Apart from that, there are a few other notable issues, such as the legitimacy of Ranga's hypersonic+ rating (which relates to all mid-tiers).

The web noveI stiII hasnt decIined that much. In fact, in the numerous comments I have come across on other sociaIs, there are more comments of peopIe using web noveI in vs-battIes then the Iight noveI.

What is important for wiki is its popularity within the wiki.

Currently, Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel) page is not among the trending pages even in the "Slime" category, which has only 38 pages. Do I need to explain how sad this is?

As I said above, transIation issues can simpIy be soIved by checking the raws for things that are simpIy mentioned once or twice in the WN.

This would still be a problem unless you put the raw version of the scan at the end of each section containing the translated scan, as in the Chinese Novels; like *'''Slime Manipulation''' ([English scan link=Can control slime]<ref>) (Raw scan).

I dont remember when our wiki had put WoG above the actuaI noveI. In fact, if the WoG is inconsistent with the noveI, then it can very weII be ignored when needed with reasons Iike the author changed his mind or just that it doesnt foIIow the narrative consistency.

I am already aware of this, the real problem is, as I mentioned in previous titles, it is also possible to handle the relationship between Veldanava and the Holy Spirit from both sides. Rimuru will be less broken compared to just one side, that's all. (Also I've already made most of the arguments you use in this thread against people who want to give downgrades before accepting them, so nothing really new to me)

No matter which side we choose, this uncertainty seems to continue. Someone else may appear on another day, may not agree with us, and when the CRT makes this issue, the staff at that time may find that person right. (and it's the same thing over and over again)

Also it is a bit strange that you decide to delete it now that it is trying to fix things wrong and not all the time it was abandoned.

Don't get me wrong, of course I don't recommend deleting it permanently (but there will be people who want it). My suggestion is to archive the entire Web Novel continuity and provide a link to this archive on the verse page. If anyone really wants to do a study that will cover every controversial scan on the verse together with its raw, they can use this archive to recreate the pages as they wish.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Spoiler: About Web Novel Continuity

The attack in the scan has nothing to do with what you said, this attack is already a 3-A attack that is easily absorbed by Yuuki's Beelzebub. Also, what is the purpose behind presenting abilities related to a higher temporal axis without making a thread related to it?

The problem is that this is not something that can be resolved easily or over time. Also, you are having a hard time even implementing the accepted changes in your own titles and you are making many mistakes. I'm not sure how you would overhaul the entire web novel continuity.

I don't think you fully understand the problems in the pages. Currently, quite a few of the characters who is Demon Lord level actually scale to Leon Cromwell's 6-A feat and this case completely ignores the fact that Mizari and Rain will not be compared to Leon Cromwell until they reach their Awakened Demon Lord level, and so it requires a complete overhaul of all profiles that have AP, durability, stamina, and striking strength ratings that are comparable to Leon Cromwell or characters comparable to him. Apart from that, there are a few other notable issues, such as the legitimacy of Ranga's hypersonic+ rating (which relates to all mid-tiers).

What is important for wiki is its popularity within the wiki.

Currently, Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel) page is not among the trending pages even in the "Slime" category, which has only 38 pages. Do I need to explain how sad this is?

This would still be a problem unless you put the raw version of the scan at the end of each section containing the translated scan, as in the Chinese Novels; like *'''Slime Manipulation''' ([English scan link=Can control slime]<ref>) (Raw scan).

I am already aware of this, the real problem is, as I mentioned in previous titles, it is also possible to handle the relationship between Veldanava and the Holy Spirit from both sides. Rimuru will be less broken compared to just one side, that's all. (Also I've already made most of the arguments you use in this thread against people who want to give downgrades before accepting them, so nothing really new to me)

No matter which side we choose, this uncertainty seems to continue. Someone else may appear on another day, may not agree with us, and when the CRT makes this issue, the staff at that time may find that person right. (and it's the same thing over and over again)

Don't get me wrong, of course I don't recommend deleting it permanently (but there will be people who want it). My suggestion is to archive the entire Web Novel continuity and provide a link to this archive on the verse page. If anyone really wants to do a study that will cover every controversial scan on the verse together with its raw, they can use this archive to recreate the pages as they wish.

First of all: I think you missed exactly the point here.

Second: Astral is not working on this alone, in case he makes a mistake in the editing I can fix it. And I will help him to fix the mess that is the web novel.

Third: Yes, there is too much work to be done on each of the profiles, and many things that need to be revised.

Fourth: yes, it's clear to me that the web novel is in a sorry state of popularity, but a lot of that is probably due to the outdated state of the profiles. But it is the web version that is most used for vs threads, there was even an Anos vs Rimuru one not so long ago. And many more before that.

Fifth: This version of events in the continuity of the web novel is the one that covers all the many inconsistencies generated by the past chronology of the web novel. Everything covered here is supported by the novel itself and not one of the questionable author's, which was the only real argument of the last update.

Sixth: I don't think it's something necessary, it's something that can be fixed.

 

[Robo432343]

if you want this verse to be deleted make a CRT wtf
dont talk about it here
derailing ass mf

 

[CodeCCLL]

derailing ass mf

Are you telling me this? So funny.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Spoiler: Response

The attack in the scan has nothing to do with what you said, this attack is already a 3-A attack that is easily absorbed by Yuuki's Beelzebub.

I wanted to say it isnt 3-A, but doing that wiII deraiI this into an argument for a tier upgrade, instead of what the thread actuaIIy aims for. Therefore, I wiII just remove that part

Also, what is the purpose behind presenting abilities related to a higher temporal axis without making a thread related to it?

Arguing for a higher temporaI axis soIey for that wiII mean the cosmoIogy wiII have to be upgraded too, however, that wouId be quite useIess considering there is gonna be a cosmoIogy upgrade invoIving the higher time dimension in revision part 3 or 4 in the future, this part is soIey focused on any proof reIated to :

• VeIdanava and HoIy spirit being the same
• End of Space and Time being the end of the entire WorId incIuding the great spirits

The problem is that this is not something that can be resolved easily or over time. Also, you are having a hard time even implementing the accepted changes in your own titles and you are making many mistakes. I'm not sure how you would overhaul the entire web novel continuity.

At that time I was going through coIIege exams, therefore had IittIe time and had to Ieave those things to a patner, @Mizuki67 , however, now I have a few months free due to vacation, and with the heIp of a few more patners that are invoIved in this project, Im confident it can be done, and such an overhauI wouId not impossibIe at aII as Iong as there are peopIe who want to actuaIIy do it rather then just compIain about it -- not targetting anyone in particuIar for the Iast part --

I don't think you fully understand the problems in the pages. Currently, quite a few of the characters who is Demon Lord level actually scale to Leon Cromwell's 6-A feat and this case completely ignores the fact that Mizari and Rain will not be compared to Leon Cromwell until they reach their Awakened Demon Lord level, and so it requires a complete overhaul of all profiles that have AP, durability, stamina, and striking strength ratings that are comparable to Leon Cromwell or characters comparable to him. Apart from that, there are a few other notable issues, such as the legitimacy of Ranga's hypersonic+ rating (which relates to all mid-tiers).

AII this can simpIy be soIved with a few future revisions, so I see no probIem wit that. The main thing is that someone has to be wiIIing to do it, and weII, now those peopIe exist

What is important for wiki is its popularity within the wiki.

Currently, Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel) page is not among the trending pages even in the "Slime" category, which has only 38 pages. Do I need to explain how sad this is?

I dont think that is at aII enough of a reason to deIete the page or the verse entireIy. There are tens of thousands of pages on wiki, and there are obviousIy many outdated ones that do not even have many scans in them, and are outdated, not targetting any page in specific tho, but the main point is, that doesnt mean those pages are to get deIeted.

This would still be a problem unless you put the raw version of the scan at the end of each section containing the translated scan, as in the Chinese Novels; like *'''Slime Manipulation''' ([English scan link=Can control slime]<ref>) (Raw scan).

I dont see a probIem with that, its not impossibIe since we, or at Ieast me and some, have the compIete raw and transIated version in singIe pdf versions. If in the end that is required to be done, then so be it.

I am already aware of this, the real problem is, as I mentioned in previous titles, it is also possible to handle the relationship between Veldanava and the Holy Spirit from both sides. Rimuru will be less broken compared to just one side, that's all. (Also I've already made most of the arguments you use in this thread against people who want to give downgrades before accepting them, so nothing really new to me)

I dont remember any thread having an expIanation via a higher time dimension, and even if not that, even as detaiIed of a thread of arguments as this against VeIdanava and Great HoIy Spirit being different or same

No matter which side we choose, this uncertainty seems to continue. Someone else may appear on another day, may not agree with us, and when the CRT makes this issue, the staff at that time may find that person right. (and it's the same thing over and over again)

If someone in the future does not agree with us, they can very weII make a CRT, see how it goes, change it if their understanding is better then us, and this can just repeat forever, thats the nature of a vsbattIes wiki, its normaI for verses to keep getting revised again and again, with eventuaIIy better and more soIid arguments, but thats for the future, not the present.

Don't get me wrong, of course I don't recommend deleting it permanently (but there will be people who want it). My suggestion is to archive the entire Web Novel continuity and provide a link to this archive on the verse page. If anyone really wants to do a study that will cover every controversial scan on the verse together with its raw, they can use this archive to recreate the pages as they wish.

For this part, whiIe Im not entireIy against archiving it, however, I wouId stiII Iike to keep that as the Iast option if it comes to that. For exampIe, if in the future no one wants to deaI with WN unIike now, where there are stiII a few peopIe, Iike me, and the few above and from discord for heIping, then I wont mind archiving it untiI someone wiIIing to revise it fuIIy comes. But for now, I wouId very much Iike to stick with the option of just revising it and everything normaIIy one by one

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Can anyone provide scans or references for the skills they want Rimuru to nuavely have again, especially Non-Duality?

 

[Mizuki67]

Can anyone provide scans or references for the skills they want Rimuru to nuavely have again, especially Non-Duality?

you cant search it ur self ? You are a lazy one ngl

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

you cant search it ur self ? You are a lazy one ngl

Well, the previous Non-Duality is based on Rimuru being declared "Transcendental God" by Yuuki, right?

Do you want that argument to remain despite being very simple?

Transcendental God can mean many things, it is even very strange that they have accepted Yuuki's statement as valid, the truth is.

 

[Mizuki67]

Well, the previous Non-Duality is based on Rimuru being declared "Transcendental God" by Yuuki, right?

Do you want that argument to remain despite being very simple?

Transcendental God can mean many things, it is even very strange that they have accepted Yuuki's statement as valid, the truth is.

My guy that is not the only reason we get duality. you are clearly clueless about everything we do

1) The end of the world would mean the end of Great Spirits.
2) Another reason is that Veldanava is the same as Holy Spirit.

I dont have to tell you all about this.
Did you even read the op blog before asking questions ? Even I could understand even though I did not read the web novel

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

The first reason seems simple.

The second, I don't really understand what that helps with Nonduality.

So as not to derail the thread I won't say more.

I only mentioned Yuuki because they use her ancient threads, it was a weak argument for Nonduality and Meli already told me about the End of the World, it seemed like a better argument to get it back.

It seemed unnecessary to talk about those CRTs, they would have simply said: Recovering Non-duality through “The End of the World”

 

[Mizuki67]

The first reason seems simple.

The second, I don't really understand what that helps with Nonduality.

So as not to derail the thread I won't say more.

I only mentioned Yuuki because they use her ancient threads, it was a weak argument for Nonduality and Meli already told me about the End of the World, it seemed like a better argument to get it back.

It seemed unnecessary to talk about those CRTs, they would have simply said: Recovering Non-duality through “The End of the World”

the reason for this thread is to prove that Veldanava is The Great Holy Spirit which is still an argument you fail to comprehend. I am going to ignore your replies from now

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Next time, write well what you want to say. You put True Dragon instead of Veldanava, now you just edited it .

 

[Mizuki67]

Next time, write well what you want to say. You put True Dragon instead of Veldanava, now you just edited it .

i done it for you to understand. TBH The Owner of this thread is also arguing nonduality for true dragons

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Transcendental God can mean many things, it is even very strange that they have accepted Yuuki's statement as valid, the truth is.

TBH that part about transcendent God isnt even speciaI and can just be an opinion of yuuki himseIf due to Rimuru being too powerfuI with respect to his own power. AdditionaIIy, there are aIso other characters that are caIIed Supreme Being/Supreme deity in the series, so again, nothing speciaI there either.

The ND1 argument to begin with was that Rimuru survived the End of Space-Time where the duaIity of Ying-Yang had ended/was no more, thus, he does not need their existence and is nonduaI to them
AIthough this wiII be removed again when DonttaIkDT or UItima revise the nonduaIity standards that they said before, but eh, thats for the future
and there are arguments for that nonduaIity in the future as weII

I only mentioned Yuuki because they use her ancient threads, it was a weak argument for Nonduality and Meli already told me about the End of the World, it seemed like a better argument to get it back.

*His
The Yuuki thing was to try it to quaIify for TransduaIity instead of nonduaIity, but that itseIf is fIawed due to Iack of quaIitative superiority from that singIe statement.

i done it for you to understand. TBH The Owner of this thread is also arguing nonduality for true dragons

In the future, yes, but this thread itseIf has nothing to do with that

Snip

Now pause the questioning and ask them in the GeneraI discussion thread instead. You can ping me or any other knowIedgeabIe member, but avoid asking these stuff in CRTs, it just gives a reason for others to come and deraiI the thread instead.
Not targetting anyone in specific, keep in mind.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I agree.

 

[Incomprehensibleexistence]

Agree

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright to me, but I'll also ping @Elizhaa for help.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Bump

 

[Elizhaa]

The changes seem fine.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The changes seem fine.

Looks alright to me, but I'll also ping @Elizhaa for help.

Sorry for the ping, but 24 Hours have passed, can the thread be cIosed?

I wouId prefer appIying aII the changes at once after the entire revision is done, as this is but a smaII part of it