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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Sasukesama0492 said:
No,They don't create physical space-time continuum. What they see is just a dream.
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This for the anime profile, in the movie Road to ninja obito uses limited Tsukuyomi, which is a experimental version of infinity Tsukuyomi. Limited Tsukuyomi creates a ono-one mirror copy of the real nard universe which can only be accessed by time-space ninjustsu like kamui and kakashi describes limited Tsukuyomi as a transportation jutsu rather then a genjutsu, also nard and sakura both tried to dispel the genjutsu but they coudnt do so because it was never a genjutsu to begin with
 
AlternativePrinciple said:
This for the anime profile, in the movie Road to ninja obito uses limited Tsukuyomi, which is a experimental version of infinity Tsukuyomi. Limited Tsukuyomi creates a ono-one mirror copy of the real nard universe which can only be accessed by time-space ninjustsu like kamui and kakashi describes limited Tsukuyomi as a transportation jutsu rather then a genjutsu, also nard and sakura both tried to dispel the genjutsu but they coudnt do so because it was never a genjutsu to begin with
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I am not familiar with the movie, but isn't IT refered to as a genjutsu in the anime? Why would it function like limited tsukuyomi?
 
HelloThere1089 said:
I am not familiar with the movie, but isn't IT refered to as a genjutsu in the anime? Why would it function like limited tsukuyomi?
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because obito calls the limited tsukuyomi a experimental version of the infinite tsukuyomi. The properties of both jutsus are also the same, obito used a crystal ball like thing with the pattern of the rinnesharingan to reflect against the moon. Other then the way the jutsu is activited, everything else is the same

Edi: IT being refered to a genjutsu is't a big deal as genjutsu are just illusion which can mean

1. something that is not really what it seems to be

2. an idea or belief that is not true

the idea behind infinite tsukuyomi is that everyone lives an a "Dream World" taliored to be whatever the target finds happines in, for naruto it was to have parents which was the plot of the movie, for obito it was a world where Rin was alive. Even though Nard knew he was being tricked by obito to belive that his parents were alive. The idea or belief that his parents are alive, even though its factually wrong is why IT is called a genjutsu, not because the reality in terms of physical construct is a fake but what occupies that reality, the idea of what that reality is suppose to be, which is to make the target be happy even if it goes against factually established events in the real universe
 
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AlternativePrinciple said:
because obito calls the limited tsukuyomi a experimental version of the infinite tsukuyomi. The properties of both jutsus are also the same, obito used a crystal ball like thing with the pattern of the rinnesharingan to reflect against the moon. Other then the way the jutsu is activited, everything else is the same
Click to expand...
That's not what I'm asking. Did the movie specifically state that limited tsukuyomi is not a genjutsu? If so, then why would be assume they work the same way if IT is a genjutsu. Obito tried to replicate IT and ended up creating an alternate reality. That's what I'm getting so far.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
That's not what I'm asking. Did the movie specifically state that limited tsukuyomi is not a genjutsu? If so, then why would be assume they work the same way if IT is a genjutsu. Obito tried to replicate IT and ended up creating an alternate reality. That's what I'm getting so far.
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it never really specifies that it is/is't a genjutsu, only that its a different reality created using the power of 7 tailed beasts and that its a lesser version of infinite tsukuyomi. You could think of it being refered to as a genjutsu if you count it being a lesser version of IT
 
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AlternativePrinciple said:
Edi: IT being refered to a genjutsu is't a big deal as genjutsu are just illusion which can mean

1. something that is not really what it seems to be

2. an idea or belief that is not true

the idea behind infinite tsukuyomi is that everyone lives an a "Dream World" taliored to be whatever the target finds happines in, for naruto it was to have parents which was the plot of the movie, for obito it was a world where Rin was alive. Even though Nard knew he was being tricked by obito to belive that his parents were alive. The idea or belief that his parents are alive, even though its factually wrong is why IT is called a genjutsu, not because the reality in terms of physical construct is a fake but what occupies that reality, the idea of what that reality is suppose to be, which is to make the target be happy even if it goes against factually established events in the real universe
Click to expand...
Did you really just argue that alternate realities are illusions? If limited tsukuyomi is an alternate reality then it is real and not an illusion.

Let me point out your circular reasoning here.

1. Limited Tsukuyomi is real because it is not a genjutsu.
2. Limited Tsukuyomi tries to imitate Infinite Tsukuyomi so IT is also real.
3. IT is genjutsu, but now it doesn't matter because alternate realities are illusions.

AlternativePrinciple said:
it never really specifically says that it is/is't a genjutsu, only that its a different reality created using the power of 7 tailed beasts and that its a lesser version of infinite tsukuyomi
Click to expand...
Lesser version doesn't really matter because one is a genjutsu and other is implied to not be one. Lesser version could simply mean IT gets the same thing done but on a larger scale by using illusions.
 
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HelloThere1089 said:
Did you really just argue that alternate realities are illusions? If limited tsukuyomi is an alternate reality then it is real and not an illusion.

Let me point out your circular reasoning here.

1. Limited Tsukuyomi is real because it is not a genjutsu.
2. Limited Tsukuyomi tries to imitate Infinite Tsukuyomi so IT is also real.
3. IT is genjutsu, but now it doesn't matter because alternate realities are illusions.
Click to expand...
i meant what was shown in that realites are ''illusion''. Like how you go to see a play in a theater, the theater is real, the people are real, but the story being played is fiction or an illusion made for the entertainmaent of the audience. I just cant explain it properly
HelloThere1089 said:
Lesser version doesn't really matter because one is a genjutsu and other is implied to not be one. Lesser version could simply means IT gets the same thing done but on a larger scale but using illusions.
Click to expand...
cant genjutsu like rewrite reality and also didnt kakashi refer to kaguya changing dimensions as a genjutsu
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Did you really just argue that alternate realities are illusions? If limited tsukuyomi is an alternate reality then it is real and not an illusion.

Let me point out your circular reasoning here.

1. Limited Tsukuyomi is real because it is not a genjutsu.
2. Limited Tsukuyomi tries to imitate Infinite Tsukuyomi so IT is also real.
3. IT is genjutsu, but now it doesn't matter because alternate realities are illusions.


Lesser version doesn't really matter because one is a genjutsu and other is implied to not be one. Lesser version could simply means IT gets the same thing done but on a larger scale but using illusions.
Click to expand...
Considering there is genjustu that straight up alters reality it being a genjustu is not really a defeater if you can argue it well
 
karo_senpaii said:
Considering there is genjustu that straight up alters reality it being a genjustu is not really a defeater if you can argue it well
Click to expand...
kakashi also says this "To rewrite the world in an instant and make into reality, this is just like genjutsu" so genjustsu being able to create physical world doesn't seem far fetched
 
AlternativePrinciple said:
i meant what was shown in that realites are ''illusion''. Like how you go to see a play in a theater, the theater is real, the people are real, but the story being played is fiction or an illusion made for the entertainmaent of the audience. I just cant explain it properly
Click to expand...
Ok.
karo_senpaii said:
Considering there is genjustu that straight up alters reality it being a genjustu is not really a defeater if you can argue it well
Click to expand...
Sure and I have no problem with that. But I wouldn't really frame my argument as: Limited Tsukuyomi is real because it isn't a genjutsu. Alt should just say genjutsu can be real and then argue why limited tsukuyomi is an actual physical universe. That way IT can be scaled to it.
 
Sasukesama0492 said:
Didn't Jura already say she was more of a bijuu than a Jinchuriki? Or am I remembering wrong?
Click to expand...
Her regen yes. I don't remember if he said she is more of a Biju herself. And there is a difference between being more like a Biju and literally being one. Maybe I'm forgetting some statements tho. As it stands, I wouldn't give her every single ability of a Biju unless she's stated to be a Biju herself. Kinda like the Shinju.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Ok.

Sure and I have no problem with that. But I wouldn't really frame my argument as: Limited Tsukuyomi is real because it isn't a genjutsu. Alt should just say genjutsu can be real and then argue why limited tsukuyomi is an actual physical universe. That way IT can be scaled to it.
Click to expand...
Well that makes much more sense
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Why isn’t Haku scaling over Kakashi and Zabuza an outlier statement? Haku may not have been “motivated” to Kill Sasuke and Naruto (Even though his statements and the DB say otherwise), he was still made to bleed by someone vaguely above 1/10th Zabuza.
Click to expand...
Naruto defeats a weakened Haku.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
thoughts ?
GR-e0NKbEAAPR7S
Click to expand...
Only can beat Aoba
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Ok.

Sure and I have no problem with that. But I wouldn't really frame my argument as: Limited Tsukuyomi is real because it isn't a genjutsu. Alt should just say genjutsu can be real and then argue why limited tsukuyomi is an actual physical universe. That way IT can be scaled to it.
Click to expand...
can also just argue its real based on the fact that people inside the IT world can crossover and interact with the main universe in the anime with no issue.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
can also just argue its real based on the fact that people inside the IT world can crossover and interact with the main universe in the anime with no issue.
Click to expand...
Yeah. That's my point. Stuff like what you mentioned and Obito being able to travel between LT world and real world using kamui are much better arguments and leave fewer holes.
 
Chunin level 8-B
Jonin 7-C
Sannin-Gokage ?
Alternative Tsukiyomi scales to L2C (I don't know how this will happen either)
 
I'm guessing that Jubito will scale to the LT stuff because he has all of the Biju. Idk how tho since no UES yet.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
I'm guessing that Jubito will scale to the LT stuff because he has all of the Biju. Idk how tho since no UES yet.
Click to expand...
Since the chakra need for the L2C feat is from the 7 tailed beasts combined his dura might scale to it since a jin is stronger then a tail beasts raw strength and the fact that his the ten tails jin aswell. If that is not applicable then his six path sword should atleast scale to it
 
AlternativePrinciple said:
Since the chakra need for the L2C feat is from the 7 tailed beasts combined his dura might scale to it since a jin is stronger then a tail beasts raw strength and the fact that his the ten tails jin aswell. If that is not applicable then his six path sword should atleast scale to it
Click to expand...
Have you studied the UES page? Why would the sword scale to it?
 
AlternativePrinciple said:
isn't the sword his strongest attack?
Click to expand...
Might be. But how does it scale to LT since LT isn't really an "attack". You'd have to prove that his sword swings require more chakra than LT. If you can find a statement that Obito used the most amount of chakra in his life in a particular attack, then that attack would scale to LT. If we had UES, this wouldn't be required. Alternatively you can find statements in the filler that might prove the verse has UES and then scale from that. Anyways too much work and I'm lazy.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Might be. But how does it scale to LT since LT isn't really an "attack". You'd have to prove that his sword swings require more chakra than LT. If you can find a statement that Obito used the most amount of chakra in his life in a particular attack, then that attack would scale to LT. If we had UES, this wouldn't be required.
Click to expand...
i have to go and rewatch the war arc
HelloThere1089 said:
Alternatively you can find statements in the filler that might prove the verse has UES and then scale from that. Anyways too much work and I'm lazy.
Click to expand...
good luck to anyone who tries to because it sure isn't going to be me
 
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