Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Reiner04]

Yes, but what I'm trying to say is that this is less of it being dishonest and more of it being a mistranslation.

It is more of being dishonest if it's edited MTL that he does in the first place when he knowingly replaced "in" with "to" to present it as evidence. We know MTL translates it as "in".

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @GrathOfLux @Dereck03 @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Duedate8898 @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Deagonx @FinePoint @Elizio33 @Mr._Propeller_Hat @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Catzlaflame @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Nierre @Dalesean027 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Vzearr

Your continuous help would be extremely appreciated here.

 

[Dereck03]

I am digging into this issue, it seems to be different from this thread where the same thing is being questioned but that one referring to the WN and this one to the LN, it seems that both tiers 1 may be based simply on mistranslations/manipulations of MTL edited scans (more so in the case of the Web Novel) and adding Reiner's main report, I can't say what would be the right thing to do yet until I finish my research.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks a lot for helping out.

 

[Theglassman12]

Is this a constant pattern with Astral Trinity’s translation where it just happens to have some higher end interpretation with how he’s translating the raws compared to how it actually is?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Would it be possible for a staff member to contact him on Discord?

Since I think he should have at least have a chance at explaining the situation from his view.

 

[Reiner04]

I am digging into this issue, it seems to be different from this thread where the same thing is being questioned but that one referring to the WN and this one to the LN, it seems that both tiers 1 may be based simply on mistranslations/manipulations of MTL edited scans (more so in the case of the Web Novel) and adding Reiner's main report, I can't say what would be the right thing to do yet until I finish my research.

I'd suggest that, to resolve this issue, we revert all upgrades that were based on or used Astral's translations until someone creates a thread based solely on reliable fan translations or our TL helpers’ translations. I’d also recommend not allowing "human-edited MTLs" for this verse unless they come from someone knowledgeable in Japanese, considering how serious the situation with this verse is regarding manipulative MTLs. And, ofcourse, a further strict ban for Astral.

Is this a constant pattern with Astral Trinity’s translation where it just happens to have some higher end interpretation with how he’s translating the raws compared to how it actually is?

Yeah. He's banned for his Mistranslations in the first place, but there is clear dishonesty in his edited MTLs. He even disregarded a reliable Fan translation that was used within the verse to use his own edited MTL coz "fan translations has betrayed him many times".

@MrTayman616 also told me on my wall that it was clearly forcefully added there since he uses deepL which doesn't adds "to" there. While I can see he may have added "to" there since he saw universe was destroyed but the very thing that Qawsedf was asking is not about "Universe" was destroyed but clearly "entire timeline" so it seems he forced the translation to fit his objective rather than presenting a clear cut evidence in demand.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Would it be possible for a staff member to contact him on Discord?

Since I think he should have at least have a chance at explaining the situation from his view.

He is about to go to sleep and said he can do it tomorrow.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

That's exactly what Qawsed was asking, whether the timeline was actually destroyed or not, but what was sent to him is scan that itself was misleading by implying "the entire timeline was destroyed" due to the use of 'to'. If there were scans or context to imply that entire timeline was destroyed then he should have sent that, a misleading human edited translation isn't proper evidence or a valid scan to begin with. Whether or not there's actual evidence or a scan showing the timeline being destroyed is a separate matter and should have been presented in that thread. Presenting a scan about the timeline being destroyed with a dishonest mistranslation doesn’t prove anything.

Again. What Qawsedf asked for is the scan that "entire timeline was destroyed". He was served with misleading translation. Destroying Universe doesn't mean Timeline here but either way separate matter. The scan in demand should have been clear on its own rather than forced.

He literally sent both scans. He didn’t withhold information so he could get a tier. Even if you took away the scan, literally NOTHING changes as the next scan literally talks about it. Qawsed agreed simply because it was already accepted that they could destroy the timeline as they were already were tier 2, astrals translations didn’t even convince him. With or without that it would not have changed as the Literal next sentence tells you that the timeline was over. It was destroyed.


i don’t see how it is misleading when both lead to the same conclusion.


“We don’t know what happened in that timeline “ because it was already over when we jumped.

We don’t know what happened to that timeline because it was over when we jumped.

Both translations mean the timeline was over. And it literally comes right after the statement about the universe being destroyed.

 

[Reiner04]

He literally sent both scans. He didn’t withhold information so he could get a tier. Even if you took away the scan, literally NOTHING changes as the next scan literally talks about it. Qawsed agreed simply because it was already accepted that they could destroy the timeline as they were already were tier 2, astrals translations didn’t even convince him. With or without that it would not have changed as the Literal next sentence tells you that the timeline was over. It was destroyed.

Correction. He agreed that if it is accepted that he did destroyed entirety of that timeline and it's already accepted that he did it there, then he agrees. Astral sent our Universe page saying destroying timeline means destroying all of past, present and future but the scan doesn't says he did destroyed entirety of timeline in the first place but rather it's just misleading translation. A decision driven off of misleading scans and translation cannot be trusted.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Correction. He agreed that if it is accepted that he did destroyed entirety of that timeline and it's already accepted that he did it there, then he agrees. Astral sent our Universe page saying destroying timeline means destroying all of past, present and future but the scan doesn't says he did destroyed entirety of timeline in the first place but rather it's just misleading translation. A decision driven off of misleading scans and translation cannot be trusted.

Just going to ask you to read the last sentence for me. Why is it not known? All you have to do is copy and paste what it says. Because the timeline Ended, it is not known what happened inside it. DeepL gives alternatives for context, so astral who translates everything based on context, seen that the context was referring to destruction of the timeline and used the Option that was presented to him.



What happened in that timeline, is not known precisely.


Because at the point in time Ciel-san was thrown everything had already ended.

 

[Reiner04]

Because the timeline Ended, it is not known what happened inside it.

The scan was specifically needed for "entire timeline was ended" Qawsed didn't asked for Universe so idk why it matters that Universe was mentioned to be destroyed at some point. If he didn't had any clear statement about Timeline being destroyed then he should have not presented a "Forced Edited MTL" of his own. An evidence does not need to be forced if clear enough. Also a quick check from TL thread caught my eye that world was, infact, not destroyed and he seems to have cropped the raws and translation and didn't presented entire thing. So, yeah. I don't buy this manipulated evidence.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

The scan was specifically needed for "entire timeline was ended" Qawsed didn't asked for Universe so idk why it matters that Universe was mentioned to be destroyed at some point. If he didn't had any clear statement about Timeline being destroyed then he should have not presented a "Forced Edited MTL" of his own.

It literally tells you that they don’t know what happened because the timeline is destroyed by the time the jumped. Literally a sentence apart.

An evidence does not need to be forced if clear enough. Also a quick check from TL thread caught my eye that world was, infact, not destroyed and he seems to have cropped the raws and translation and didn't presented entire thing. So, yeah. I don't buy this manipulated evidence.

…. These are literally two different things. A world is a hyper timeline. Even though the universe was destroyed by feldway, the world itself wasn’t. Timeline≠hyper timeline

 

[Reiner04]

It literally tells you that they don’t know what happened because the timeline is destroyed by the time the jumped. Literally a sentence apart.

That answer or scans regarding them were topic for that thread. It doesn't answer that forced edited MTL was used. So moving on.

. These are literally two different things. A world is a hyper timeline. Even though the universe was destroyed by feldway, the world itself wasn’t. Timeline≠hyper timeline

Hypertimeline is yet a question whether exist or not since the evidence says world wasn't destroyed it means timeline wasn't destroyed unless we prove taht Hypertimeline exist. And, Contextually, it's "exactly" referring to same thing as it specifies "one thing is certain that world has not collapsed even if nothing is". Yours conclusion is based of assumption that yet has not been proven to exist in my eyes and also contextually far away from any clear interpretation. Sorry. That said, no more comments Unless something new to add on. It's not a crt, when there was, it should have been presented.

 

[MrTayman616]

Also a quick check from TL thread caught my eye that world was, infact, not destroyed and he seems to have cropped the raws and translation and didn't presented entire thing. So, yeah. I don't buy this manipulated evidence.

Dude... i translated pages of raws he asked and he preferred DeepL over me . Maybe he forgot... (Deep L indeed)

Though being serious, the date is important, he seemingly used it before he asked to the translation group. Did he ever use it after it was translated in TL thread?

 

[Reiner04]

Dude... i translated pages of raws he asked and he preferred DeepL over me . Maybe he forgot...

Yeah. Should have waited or just not Forced MTL to meet his objective.

Though being serious, the date is important, he seemingly used it before he asked to the translation group. Did he ever use it after it was translated in TL thread?

Not really, since it was a topic of discussion when the thread was open. He may have Intentionally never mentioned it. But he definitely manipulated the MTL there is least we know. I don’t think he is innocent Given his history of using misleading translations, and how clear cut Manipulation it was.

 

[CodeCCLL]

This discussions just clogs up the RVRT and gets you nowhere.

The problems about Astral's translations already seem to have crossed the line at this point. To make a proper judgment, I think yours need move the entire file regarding Astral to a private violation report and continue there.

As for the verse, I think everyone agrees that the verse's credit has run out in terms of translations. It seems best to start a cleaning process about changes made due to Astral's translations as soon as possible.

I’d also recommend not allowing "human-edited MTLs" for this verse unless they come from someone knowledgeable in Japanese, considering how serious the situation with this verse is regarding manipulative MTLs

I would say I agree with that too.

But this cleaning process is not as easy as it seems. Someone who is not knowledgeable about the verse can easily miss many things and also unintentionally harm the profiles. I can take on this responsibility, but I need one or more than one staff member who is willing to help to give me some direction.

 

[Lycoris4812]

If I may add. I have talked with Astral and he does not care if we nuke the WN. But I propose a temporary nuke similar to Shinza Bansho. I feel like all the WN profiles are a little bit necessary and don't really matter. Once we have stuff translated, we can slowly add just Rimuru back, or maybe Veldanava and Yuuki too.

Regarding the LN, I suppose we would have to redo the Low 1-C stuff. But maybe not, we already have a cosmology revision thread up that has removed all of Astrals scans. Everything else is not really important. There might be a scan or two for some non-controversial hax, but that doesn't really matter.

 

[Reiner04]

But this cleaning process is not as easy as it seems. Someone who is not knowledgeable about the verse can easily miss many things and also unintentionally harm the profiles. I can take on this responsibility, but I need one or more than one staff member who is willing to help to give me some direction.

I think there can be some in-btw solution which can allow the supporters to translate the raws while also assuring the translation quality via some sort of "verse specific translation approval CRTs" which will need to be approved by atleast one TL member (same as how regular CRTs work). It's not that I don't trust you or some other members, but verse clearly has members besides u and others which can lead to same kind of serious issues. I wouldn't lie that my impression of Astral is clearly not good which I think reached dead end of hopelessness when realised that he discredited entire reliable fan translation for no good enough reasons as well as current issue that I mentioned.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I have talked with Astral and he does not care if we nuke the WN. But I propose a temporary nuke similar to Shinza Bansho

This is completely unnecessary considering that Astral didn't touch any of the character pages except Rimuru and Yuuki.

Of course, if no one wants to deal with outdated WN profiles, the WN can be temporarily deleted, but that's another topic.

 

[Lycoris4812]

This is completely unnecessary considering that Astral didn't touch any of the character pages except Rimuru and Yuuki.

Of course, if no one wants to deal with outdated WN profiles, the WN can be temporarily deleted, but that's another topic.

I don't care either way. We have all the material to revise it. Just need to start clean.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I think there can be some in-btw solution which can allow the supporters to translate the raws while also assuring the translation quality via some sort of "verse specific translation approval CRTs" which will need to be approved by atleast one TL member (same as how regular CRTs work). It's not that I don't trust you or some other members, but verse clearly has members besides u and others which can lead to same kind of serious issues. I wouldn't lie that my impression of Astral is clearly not good which I think reached dead end of hopelessness when realised that he discredited entire reliable fan translation for no good enough reasons as well as current issue that I mentioned.

I think you didn't quite understand me, I'm simply saying let's cut out the problematic part completely. All you have to trust on here is my knowledge of the scaling of the verse.

@Lycoris4812 If that's the case, Web Novel can be deleted, but first I need to copy the source code of some pages into the sandboxes.

 

[Reiner04]

The discussion from here on regarding the future plans of tensura can continue in the verse specific discussion thread. No more comments.

 

[Reiner04]

I'd suggest that, to resolve this issue, we revert all upgrades that were based on or used Astral's translations until someone creates a thread based solely on reliable fan translations or our TL helpers’ translations. I’d also recommend not allowing "human-edited MTLs" for this verse unless they come from someone knowledgeable in Japanese, considering how serious the situation with this verse is regarding manipulative MTLs. And, ofcourse, a further strict ban for Astral.

Considering recent comments from supporters I think I'd change my proposal a bit;

1. We should keep a copy of the WN Rimuru and Yuuki profiles in someone's sandbox and temporarily delete the current ones until supporters have enough time to rework them using reliable translations.
2. We should remove all changes in the LN profiles that are based on Astral's threads or resulted by his misleading/dishonest MTLs, same as I mentioned above regarding the Qawsedf situation.
3. Considering the consistent issue of misleading/dishonest MTLs within the verse, we should completely ban 'human-edited MTLs' unless they are verified by our TL members or someone fluent in Japanese.
4. An increase in ban length for Astral Trinity due to misleading/dishonest translations (I'll leave the exact duration to be decided by the other staff members, but I’d suggest an extension of at least 3 months).

What do you all think?

 

[SweetDao]

Considering the consistent issue of misleading/dishonest MTLs within the verse, we should completely ban 'human-edited MTLs' unless they are verified by our TL members or someone fluent in Japanese.

If I may, MTL isn't allowed anymore regardless:

Machine translation is not an acceptable alternative, as it is prone to errors and mistranslation, and would have to be re-evaluated by members of VSBW anyway, rendering it redundant.

 

[Reiner04]

If I may, MTL isn't allowed anymore regardless:

Human edited MTLs are still allowed afaik unless ofc, Verse starting to have too much problems.

 

[SweetDao]

Human edited MTLs are still allowed afaik unless ofc, Verse starting to have too much problems.

Seems redundant but okay, thanks for the heads-up!

 

[Antvasima]

Considering recent comments from supporters I think I'd change my proposal a bit;

1. We should keep a copy of the WN Rimuru and Yuuki profiles in someone's sandbox and temporarily delete the current ones until supporters have enough time to rework them using reliable translations.
2. We should remove all changes in the LN profiles that are based on Astral's threads or resulted by his misleading/dishonest MTLs, same as I mentioned above regarding the Qawsedf situation.
3. Considering the consistent issue of misleading/dishonest MTLs within the verse, we should completely ban 'human-edited MTLs' unless they are verified by our TL members or someone fluent in Japanese.
4. An increase in ban length for Astral Trinity due to misleading/dishonest translations (I'll leave the exact duration to be decided by the other staff members, but I’d suggest an extension of at least 3 months).

What do you all think?

I strongly agree with these suggestions, although if Astral Trinity deliberately wanked the ratings of this verse through lies and manipulation, I think that he should receive a permanent ban.

 

[CodeCCLL]

We should keep a copy of the WN Rimuru and Yuuki profiles in someone's sandbox and temporarily delete the current ones until supporters have enough time to rework them using reliable translations

There's no point in deleting just Rimuru and Yuuki. Either all Web Novel profiles are deleted or none of them are deleted, just changes are reverted.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems like a good point.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I strongly agree with these suggestions, although if Astral Trinity deliberately wanked the ratings of this verse through lies and manipulation, I think that he should receive a permanent ban.

Is anyone neutral willing to investigate what is edited mtl/fan translation (by astral) from his CRTs? (Light novel)

A note - The main concerns should be from volume 18 or higher, since that is around the time he started making CRT. (We currently have up to volume 20 in otl's) So if their are translation mistakes, they should be in these volumes.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Is anyone neutral willing to investigate what is edited mtl/fan translation (by astral) from his CRTs? (Light novel)

A note - The main concerns should be from volume 18 or higher, since that is around the time he started making CRT. (We currently have up to volume 20 in otl's) So if their are translation mistakes, they should be in these volumes.

First of all, the date he started making CRT's is not important, what is important is when he started including his own translations in CRT's. For the Light Novel, I remember it being limited to a few cosmology related threads, maybe there are some cases I can't remember but we can easily determine that by checking the scans that reference to those volumes.

Please don't make me, have to correct you any further.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

First of all, the date he started making CRT's is not important, what is important is when he started including his own translations in CRT's. For the Light Novel, I remember it being limited to a few cosmology related threads, maybe there are some cases I can't remember but we can easily determine that by checking the scans that reference to those volumes.

I meant it as saying he wouldn't be translating raws for where the otl volumes are out, at least for the Light novel. So I find it extremely unlikely that, for example, he mistranslated something from volume 7.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I meant it as saying he wouldn't be translating raws for where the otl volumes are out, at least for the Light novel. So I find it extremely unlikely that, for example, he mistranslated something from volume 7.

Astral has 5+ CRTs that were accepted for the Light Novel (as far as I remember, he didn't use his own translations in any of them) + there are cosmology pages he made (based on his translations). So it's pretty clear what he translated and what he didn't. In that case, why should we worry about whether "Astral has translated this volume"?

 

[Fixxed]

I meant it as saying he wouldn't be translating raws for where the otl volumes are out, at least for the Light novel. So I find it extremely unlikely that, for example, he mistranslated something from volume 7.

Who say he will not translating raws where the otl are out

For example In this
He literally translating the raws where otl are out. And basing his argument on his own translation not otl. Like in this and this

Even though that thread is not accepted, there are no guarantees that he doesnt do that in his other thread that already accepted or in his argument when defended his own thread

 

[Reiner04]

There's no point in deleting just Rimuru and Yuuki. Either all Web Novel profiles are deleted or none of them are deleted, just changes are reverted.

Well alright.

1. We should remove all changes in the LN/WN profiles that are based on Astral's threads or resulted by his misleading/dishonest MTLs, same as I mentioned above regarding the Qawsedf situation.
2. Considering the consistent issue of misleading/dishonest MTLs within the verse, we should completely ban 'human-edited MTLs' unless they are verified by our TL members or someone fluent in Japanese.
3. An increase in ban length for Astral Trinity due to misleading/dishonest translations (I'll leave the exact duration to be decided by the other staff members, but I’d suggest an extension of at least 3 months).

@Antvasima @Mr. Bambu @DarkDragonMedeus @Dereck03 @Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist
What do you all think?

I meant it as saying he wouldn't be translating raws for where the otl volumes are out, at least for the Light novel. So I find it extremely unlikely that, for example, he mistranslated something from volume 7.

That will take alot of time and I do not think any of staff member here is free enough to thoroughly investigate each CRT's of Astral and then revert the changes necessary. It will consume alot of time and is not efficient.

@Fixxed @Dark_Soul20189 @CodeCCLL please take further discussions in the verse specific thread.

I strongly agree with these suggestions, although if Astral Trinity deliberately wanked the ratings of this verse through lies and manipulation, I think that he should receive a permanent ban.

I do not mind permanent ban either. He did indeed misleaded the translations for his dishonest upgrades and made the verse quality questionable here on site. Verse is still suffering thanks to him.

 

[Everything12]

So even Ant is using the term wanked nowadays.

Anyway, I agree to Reiner's suggestion, and if they are deliberately doing this then can we really trust them not to do so again. After all, the quality of our profiles are our main concern as an indexing site. So I'd go with permanent.

Also, I'd say the human edited MTL is more technicality, and the rule can be read as either including or not including them, but I'd agree with clarification; particularity a complete ban. We've already deleted an entire verse for it already; Fortissimo, so president has been set.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Who say he will not translating raws where the otl are out

For example In this
He literally translating the raws where otl are out. And basing his argument on his own translation not otl. Like in this and this

Even though that thread is not accepted, there are no guarantees that he doesnt do that in his other thread that already accepted or in his argument when defended his own thread

(Someone keeps deleting my comments and I have a certain suspicion) this is not at all derailing as I am simply informing you guys that Translation is fine

 

[Reiner04]

@PHANtomFELdway It is not mere isssue of mistranslation but his dishonest approach for his upgrades, We do not certainly know whether he translated them based of context or out of context to the scans highest interpretation for his upgrade greed. Given LN already had OTL. I would not trust him in specific regarding that at all given his history. We all know that some translations were accepted and others weren’t, but that’s not relevant here. We also don’t have enough time to thoroughly check for any malicious activity across all his threads, thats not efficient at all. That was the exact reason for his previous ban, he was required to get approval from the TL helpers before applying any CRTs. We're not even sure what needs to be reviewed and what doesn't, especially since, as we've already seen, even a very minor change in translation from him could significantly alter the meaning of a entire scan and can get Tier 1 accepted. That said, we are reverting all changes made by Astral in the profiles. I think I did made it clear in my previous post. That said, it is not relevant to the report, not anymore. I told samething to fixxed to whom you are replying. I think there been said enough things already, let staff decide now. No more comments.

 

[Dereck03]

I'm fine with Reiner and Everything12's suggestions above, this can't be extended further.