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[DMC] Citizens, we have been kept sleeping in a manufactured illusion for too long. We must wake up!

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Marosuke

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The reboot Vergil did a blatant R>F thing, so I made a sandbox.

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Marosuke/sandbox4

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Agree Livinmeme, Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe
Neutral
Disagree Hasty12345, Dark_Soul20189, VoidGoji, Random-Helper323, Robo432343, VeryGoofyToddler2, Vietthai96, ActuallySpaceMan42
 
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You generally need more than this. You'd need proof the demons viewed humans as fictional and could shape things accordingly.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
You'd need proof the demons viewed humans as fictional.
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After the revision for R>F, my understanding is that R>F doesn't always require viewing something as fiction like comics or video games anymore.
For example I know a lot of verses with Platonic or Hindu-inspired cosmologies where reality is "illusory" and there is a higher, "true" reality lying above it.
For example, it is often the case that the characters residing in the illusory reality have a kind of core-essence within them that links them with the "true" world.
It seemed to me that DMC meets the requirements.

 
The stuff described sounds like some sort of ghostly plane of existence combined with reality warping.
 
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Yeah. Vergil literally said it's the astral plane. Nico says the human world is the mortal plane. I can see the consistency, related to occultism with them.
But I'm not sure about reality warping. It was downgraded in the past. Maybe, Maybe not.
 
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AnonymousStandUser said:
I am… so confused
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The comic is a massive infodump. So yeah, it happens.
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
DMC Devil May Cray > DMC 2

Trying to understand all these things
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Fact. Basically DmC has almost the same concepts but a different take on DMC1.
VoidGoji said:
Its just that. Basically just the spiritual/astral/limbo plane in the same space. Its not transcendence.

In any case, disagree,
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Vergil didn't explicitly stated the real world as fiction. Instead Vergil and the director consistently say the human world is an illusion.
If something is explained as unreachable by physical means from our dimension, isn't it transcendence? If there is a mistake, please tell me.
 
Marosuke said:
If something is explained as unreachable by physical means from our dimension, isn't it transcendence? If there is a mistake, please tell me.
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The original/real DMC has numerous dimensions that are unreachable by physical means, but they are not assumed to be transcendent. Bleach and Dragon Ball have such dimensions too. Being unreachable by physical means is treated as separate spatially but not necessarily transcendent.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
The original/real DMC has numerous dimensions that are unreachable by physical means, but they are not assumed to be transcendent. Bleach and Dragon Ball have such dimensions too. Being unreachable by physical means is treated as separate spatially but not necessarily transcendent.
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Something something it is stated that the world is literally an illussion
 
Livinmeme said:
Something something it is stated that the world is literally an illussion
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Looking at it, it seems to be saying that "we're living in an illusion". That doesn't make the world itself literally an illusion unless taken in the most literal way possible. Similar to how Sergeant Angel states in Hot Fuzz that the people of Sandford are living in a dream world. He's not saying Sandford is a dream dimension; he's saying they're being brainwashed by corrupt authorities who censor (kill) everyone and everything that doesn't suit how they want their town to be. Similar to how the demons in ripoff Matrix control caricatures of media and soda drink companies. The earlier interview statements seem to be talking about Limbo basically manipulating everyone and Donte can see behind the illusion. This doesn't sound like reality versus fiction to me unless there's more context.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Being unreachable by physical means is treated as separate spatially but not necessarily transcendent.
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Ok. Let me explain this.
1)Limbo is a reflection and a hellish mirror image of the real world.
2)The rules of the DW is different from ours.
The mirror image doesn't include height, width, and depth like our world. From our perspective, it's just a reflection.
Random-Helper323 said:
Looking at it, it seems to be saying that "we're living in an illusion". That doesn't make the world itself literally an illusion unless taken in the most literal way possible. Similar to how Sergeant Angel states in Hot Fuzz that the people of Sandford are living in a dream world. He's not saying Sandford is a dream dimension; he's saying they're being brainwashed by corrupt authorities who censor (kill) everyone and everything that doesn't suit how they want their town to be. Similar to how the demons in ripoff Matrix control caricatures of media and soda drink companies. The earlier interview statements seem to be talking about Limbo basically manipulating everyone and Donte can see behind the illusion. This doesn't sound like reality versus fiction to me unless there's more context.
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I agree that the real world is not literally an illusion. The real world is our universe. Vergil said that people are living in a manufactured illusion, and Limbo is the truth of the world for a reason. He explained the differences metaphorically.
 
Marosuke said:
Ok. Let me explain this.
1)Limbo is a reflection and a hellish mirror image of the real world.
2)The rules of the DW is different from ours.
The mirror image doesn't include height, width, and depth like our world. From our perspective, it's just a reflection.

I agree that the real world is not literally an illusion. The real world is our universe. Vergil said that people are living in a manufactured illusion, and Limbo is the truth of the world for a reason. He explained the differences metaphorically.
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Yeah, and I'm just not sure that's proof of transcendence. To transcend it like is being described involves being infinite on an additional axis, seeing the world how a human might see a fictional story.

I suppose we could argue the reboot is reality>fiction based on how it almost killed the franchise...
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Yeah, and I'm just not sure that's proof of transcendence.
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If the higher plane demonstrably has its own set of dimensions, so that it is impossible for it and the lower world to be related to each other by dimensional differences.
DMC has the basis of occultism in cosmology. And we can't equate occultism with physics. Occult has its own set of dimensions like the astral plane, unlike physics. That's transcendence here. I've seen some verses that have already been accepted as 1-A because they have the astral plane in cosmology.
Random-Helper323 said:
To transcend it like is being described involves being infinite on an additional axis, seeing the world how a human might see a fictional story.
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I think this is about the previous version of Tiering System.
 
Robo432343 said:
disagree they have been shown to be 3-D
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In fairness that alone isn't enough to dismiss the issue.
Marosuke said:
If the higher plane demonstrably has its own set of dimensions, so that it is impossible for it and the lower world to be related to each other by dimensional differences.
DMC has the basis of occultism in cosmology. And we can't equate occultism with physics. Occult has its own set of dimensions like the astral plane, unlike physics. That's transcendence here. I've seen some verses that have already been accepted as 1-A because they have the astral plane in cosmology.

I think this is about the previous version of Tiering System.
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My concern is that all we have here is the world being afflicted with illusions and partly controlled by demons in Limbo behind it. I'm not sure this proves that the world itself is literally an illusion. The world being warped and filled with illusions doesn't automatically mean the universe itself is an illusion, and the statements about all of the people living in an illusion also just means people are under an illusion, not that the entire universe is illusory. As I said earlier, Sergeant Angel in Hot Fuzz states that the people are living in a dream world, but he's saying they're being kept ignorant, not that the town itself is a dream dimension.
 
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Marosuke said:
If the higher plane demonstrably has its own set of dimensions, so that it is impossible for it and the lower world to be related to each other by dimensional differences.
DMC has the basis of occultism in cosmology. And we can't equate occultism with physics. Occult has its own set of dimensions like the astral plane, unlike physics. That's transcendence here. I've seen some verses that have already been accepted as 1-A because they have the astral plane in cosmology.

I think this is about the previous version of Tiering System.
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Can you cite/show any examples of such verses?
 
Random-Helper323 said:
My concern is that all we have here is the world being afflicted with illusions and partly controlled by demons in Limbo behind it.
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There is a dimensional difference, so I don't think it will be a problem.
Random-Helper323 said:
I'm not sure this proves that the world itself is literally an illusion. The world being warped and filled with illusions doesn't automatically mean the universe itself is an illusion, and the statements about all of the people living in an illusion also just means people are under an illusion, not that the entire universe is illusory.
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Limbo obviously exists in cosmology, but people don't believe in occultism. At this point, people are living in a stereotype. Vergil somehow said it's a manufactured illusion.
Yeah, I agree that the real world is not an illusion.
But that is a way of describing R>F in cosmology, honestly. And Vergil did it for the explanation.
We have some WoG that explains Limbo as a reflection and a mirror image of the real world. Limbo isn't another real world, honestly.
VoidGoji said:
Can you cite/show any examples of such verses?
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Marvel, isekai verses, SMT and idk anything more than that.
 
Holy
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1340012082602446976/1353181498836127886/1085389542061781043.webp?ex=67e7f83a&is=67e6a6ba&hm=e8fa7d75d79d090f5bd9235909759b51b243f1cd9da4634e88e8ece42d33bff9&
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Too vague
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Alright. I made a long story short.
Bob barbas has been lying and brainwashing people in the real world. Actually he is a demon in Limbo, not a newscaster.
And Succubus produces some sort of poison to make people docile. They spiked it in a beverage to manipulate.
Mundus, the demon king is the one who designed this structure to farm human souls.
That's why Vergil viewed the real world as a manufactured illusion. The trailer described that the world is not what it seems. And people can't enter the astral plane, so there is no way for people to see the truth in Limbo.
Roughly speaking, this is how the story goes. El Donte can see the truth and stop the demons from manipulating people.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
there's only one statement to go off of and its not even the strongest case of R>F.
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I'm not sure what you are talking about. So can I take that as your agreement or not?
 
I'm gonna clarify my points again.
Some people insisted that viewing something as a form of fiction(comics, video games etc) is the only way to qualify for R>F. But it's not only that. According to Ultima_Reality's comment in this thread,
Moreover, note that I've used the metafictional kind of Reality-Fiction Transcendences because of how popular they are, onsite, but generally speaking, the same arguments I've made above apply to other kinds of superiority where one side is reality and the other is unreality. For example I know a lot of verses with Platonic or Hindu-inspired cosmologies where reality is "illusory" and there is a higher, "true" reality lying above it. These kinds of verses, where such things tend to be serious explorations of metaphysics, tend to have little anti-feats on that front, I find.
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I find it difficult to see why some people say this is not R>F. I mean I need help from the staff members.
 
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