[TYPE-MOON] Scorched Earth II

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

So it's been a while, but as some of you may know, after the previous thread concluded, @Agnaa raised concerns about the decision to delete the pages here. Following a brief discussion in a group chat, we agreed that the better approach would be to lock the verse and apply a template similar to the (now former) {{Outdated}}, prompting the creation of this thread.

Now that the thread has concluded, I'm proposing to restore all the previously deleted pages, apply the {{Outdated}} template to each, and edit-lock them.

While we're at it, it would also be a good opportunity to rename the pages immediately after they're restored. As mentioned in the Discord server, the plan is as follows:

Note: Servant profiles will be moved from "Class name (True name)" or "Class name (Series name)" to "True name (Class name)" or "True name (Fate)"

As a rule of thumb, if the Type-Moon wiki has "True name (Class name)", use the same article name. If they just have "True name", do "True name (Fate)" or "True name (Series name)"

if their names are already unique enough to be distinguished from other verses (e.g. the titles of the Hassans), just use those

Examples:

"Saber (Fate/stay night)" -> "Artoria Pendragon (Saber)"
"Playable Saber (Fate/EXTRA)" -> "Nero Claudius (Fate)"
"Saber of Black (Siegfried)" -> "Siegfried (Fate)"
"Saber (Fate/Prototype)" -> "Arthur Pendragon (Fate/Prototype)"
"Assassin (Hassan of the Cursed Arm)" -> "Hassan of the Cursed Arm"

The main reason for this is that the TYPE-MOON fandom has largely stopped using Class names to refer to specific Servants like they did back in, say, 2016, which is a given considering we now have upwards of 700 Servants compared to the couple dozen of the pre-/early-FGO era.

I also assume our prior naming convention was based off of the TYPE-MOON wiki, which itself moved away from the format over 4 and a half years ago (presumably for similar reasons), as we can see here:

There were some other odd choices for the page names (I recall Shiki's page having her last name first, as 'Ryougi Shiki', while both of her Servant Counterparts' pages were 'Assassin/Saber (Shiki Ryougi)'), but the bulk of the work here would be for the rest of the Servants.

This should be relatively uncontroversial and is close enough to the undeletion process for it to be done in one fell swoop, so it makes sense to handle both now.

 

[Agnaa]

I think it's a good idea to bring it back.

Not familiar with the series, but based on our Editing Rules on page titles:

The titles of character pages should be the respective character's name and nothing else, but in cases when there is one or more characters with identical names, a parenthesis that clarifies the entry in the series that a specific character has debuted in, rather than the title of the verse itself, should only be applied in cases when

I'd hope that "True Name (Fate)" or "True Name (Fate Instalment)" would be granular enough, and so we wouldn't need to do "True Name (Class Name)"

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

I'd hope that "True Name (Fate)" or "True Name (Fate Instalment)" would be granular enough, and so we wouldn't need to do "True Name (Class Name)"

There'd be a number of Servants who would (and already did) have multiple pages for the different classes they were summoned in (vast majority of these being strictly from Fate/Grand Order), so "True Name (Class Name)" would apply to them.

 

[Agnaa]

There'd be a number of Servants who would (and already did) have multiple pages for the different classes they were summoned in (vast majority of these being strictly from Fate/Grand Order), so "True Name (Class Name)" would apply to them.

Damn, those can't feasibly be placed as separate keys on one page?

 

[Wankbreaker]

Damn, those can't feasibly be placed as separate keys on one page?

Certain class changes for servants differ so much they might as well be different characters.

(e.g: Berserker vs Saber Lancelot, or Saber vs Lancer Artoria)

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Damn, those can't feasibly be placed as separate keys on one page?

As Wank mentioned, Artoria's Lancer counterpart is a what-if/alternate universe scenario afaik, and other servants have similar cases like this where the only real way to distinguish them is through their Class names. They're not historical figures, but Shirou and Kiritsugu's counter guardian counterparts are both named 'EMIYA', one being an Archer and the other an Assassin respectively.

There are a lot of cases where they could just be merged into one page though, like most of the summer/santa alts which used to have separate pages could just be merged into keys without much fuss. (The TM wiki does something like this too, funnily enough)
For those, I'd only make an exception where the main pages already have quite a few keys, take for example Saber Artoria's page which had 4 keys before and is most likely going to gain another post-revisions.

 

[FinePoint]

I support bringing back the verse while using keys for different classes as much as practical.

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah sounds fair.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me as others said.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Alright. Can this be applied now?

 

[Agnaa]

We should wait until 48 hours have passed since the thread was posted. If no contentions have been brought by that point, then sure.

(Also y'all should probably find a content mod/admin with the time spare to restore & rename these)

 

[Wankbreaker]

We should wait until 48 hours have passed since the thread was posted. If no contentions have been brought by that point, then sure.

(Also y'all should probably find a content mod/admin with the time spare to restore & rename these)

alright, got a slave @Catzlaflame to assist when this gets applied.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

We should wait until 48 hours have passed since the thread was posted. If no contentions have been brought by that point, then sure.

(Also y'all should probably find a content mod/admin with the time spare to restore & rename these)

I remember Garrixian had some bot to delete all the pages, idk how those work

 

[Wankbreaker]

We should wait until 48 hours have passed since the thread was posted. If no contentions have been brought by that point, then sure.

(Also y'all should probably find a content mod/admin with the time spare to restore & rename these)

bump, it’s been 48 hours.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Alright. Can this be applied now?

Ye

 

[Catzlaflame]

They're back

 

[FinePoint]

They're back

So is there anything else which needs to be done here?

 

[Wankbreaker]

They're back

erm acktually you forgot to apply the changes here

Avalon Scaling Fix

I was told by a staff member I did not have to seek approval for this, as long as I had good enough new evidence to present (which will be presented late into the CRT). So no derailment. For starters, the 6D Avalon rating should not exist for the verse. While Avalon being 6D itself is so far...

vsbattles.com

(TLDR, Tier 1 nuked, pages should be reverted to 2-A.)

 

[Catzlaflame]

I didn't forget, I was just saying the pages were back. Also needed to prioritize protecting the pages from "all users" to "autoconfirmed." Thats done now too tho.

FYI, for future reference in case we're ever in a situation where we need to undelete a lot of pages @Just_a_Random_Butler @Antvasima @IdiosyncraticLawyer a really really annoying problem I had was that AjaxMassUndelete uses categories to undelete the pages, but like since the pages are deleted tho.... they won't.... yk... appear in the categories lol. Which means that we'd have to copy and paste every single page name from the deletion log into AjaxUD to get it to work. One potential solution is to get around that is to just copy the entire relevant portion of the deletion log including allat extra stuff like for ex:

04:01, 9 January 2025 GarrixianXD Message Wall contribs block deleted page Sakura Matou (Fate/kaleid) (https://vsbattles.com/threads/type-moon-scorched-earth.176091/) (view/undelete)04:01, 9 January 2025 GarrixianXD Message Wall contribs block deleted page SABER (JASON) (https://vsbattles.com/threads/type-moon-scorched-earth.176091/) (view/undelete)

then paste this into https://regex101.com/r/kUW4Ug/1
The regex for the find would be:

((?<=page\s))(.*?)((?=\s\())

Replace:

$2

then go to export on the LEFT SIDE --> plain text, and it'll list the page names all beautifully in a list, all ready to go, no billions of hrs
spent on copy and pasting! Sorry for the random tag, wanted to share just in case

 

[BreezeHM]

erm acktually you forgot to apply the changes here

Avalon Scaling Fix

I was told by a staff member I did not have to seek approval for this, as long as I had good enough new evidence to present (which will be presented late into the CRT). So no derailment. For starters, the 6D Avalon rating should not exist for the verse. While Avalon being 6D itself is so far...

vsbattles.com

(TLDR, Tier 1 nuked, pages should be reverted to 2-A.)

I didn't forget, I was just saying the pages were back. Also needed to prioritize protecting the pages from "all users" to "autoconfirmed." Thats done now too tho.

FYI, for future reference in case we're ever in a situation where we need to undelete a lot of pages @Just_a_Random_Butler @Antvasima @IdiosyncraticLawyer a really really annoying problem I had was that AjaxMassUndelete uses categories to undelete the pages, but like since the pages are deleted tho.... they won't.... yk... appear in the categories lol. Which means that we'd have to copy and paste every single page name from the deletion log into AjaxUD to get it to work. One potential solution is to get around that is to just copy the entire relevant portion of the deletion log including allat extra stuff like for ex:


then paste this into https://regex101.com/r/kUW4Ug/1
The regex for the find would be:

Replace:

then go to export on the LEFT SIDE --> plain text, and it'll list the page names all beautifully in a list, all ready to go, no billions of hrs
spent on copy and pasting! Sorry for the random tag, wanted to share just in case

Most of the changes are just the tier, while the statistics are displaying Complex Multiverse level.

 

[Catzlaflame]

Most of the changes are just the tier, while the statistics are displaying Complex Multiverse level.

Ah yea, my bad, will fix.

Thanks for pointing that out

Edit: fixed (except low-1C, pending confirmation)

 

[BreezeHM]

Ah yea, my bad, will fix.

Thanks for pointing that out

If you're doing it manually, I can do a couple pages as well

 

[Catzlaflame]

No it’s automated so no problem, thanks though!

@Wankbreaker does the Low-1C also get downgraded to 2-A

 

[Wankbreaker]

No it’s automated so no problem, thanks though!

@Wankbreaker does the Low-1C also get downgraded to 2-A

They both get downgraded, yes

The Low-1C ratings were 6D ratings that were neglected to be edited to 1C,

 

[Firestorm808]

Have the {{Outdated}} templates been added to the restored pages?

 

[Firestorm808]

@Antvasima Is there a way to bulk add the {{Outdated}} template to the restored pages?

 

[Firestorm808]

On another note, when can we begin the page renaming?

 

[Wankbreaker]

On another note, when can we begin the page renaming?

Catz should’ve done it already, unless something went wrong

 

[Catzlaflame]

Catz should’ve done it already, unless something went wrong

I asked in the server about a list of characters that’ll be renamed and to what exactly they’ll be renamed too

@Antvasima Is there a way to bulk add the {{Outdated}} template to the restored pages?

Yea I’ll do that tomorrow. At work most of today.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks a lot for helping out, Catzlaflame.

 

[Firestorm808]

What is the current status of the pages so far?

 

[Catzlaflame]

Did most of the stuff yesterday, will finish today. A little left, mostly renaming

 

[Catzlaflame]

Should be good, lmk if theres a problem with any of it

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

You can't be saying it should be good here's still stuff like this bro

Fate/stay night (Saber)

Template:Artoria Pendragon Saber (セイバー, Seibā?) is the Saber-class Servant of Kiritsugu Emiya during the Fourth Holy Grail War, and then of his son, Shirou Emiya, during the Fifth. Her actual name is Artoria Pendragon, better known as King Arthur, the "Once and Future King" and a legendary hero...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Catzlaflame]

What I did was change every instance of

Saber (BLANK)
Assassin (BLANK)
Caster (BLANK)
Rider (BLANK)
Ruler (BLANK)
Archer (BLANK)

To

BLANK (Assassin)
BLANK (Assassin
BLANK (Caster)
BLANK (Rider)
BLANK (Ruler)
BLANK (archer)

Which was my interpretation of what was said above.

So I’m gonna assume there’s a separate “True Name” outside of what’s already on the page name? where do I find that? Again. I don’t know shit about fate.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

What I did was change every instance of

Saber (BLANK)
Assassin (BLANK)
Caster (BLANK)
Rider (BLANK)
Ruler (BLANK)
Archer (BLANK)

To

BLANK (Assassin)
BLANK (Assassin
BLANK (Caster)
BLANK (Rider)
BLANK (Ruler)
BLANK (archer)

Which was my interpretation of what was said above.

So I’m gonna assume there’s a separate “True Name” outside of what’s already on the page name? where do I find that? Again. I don’t know shit about fate.

The true name is just the name of the Servant

 

[Firestorm808]

I think I fixed the page titles now.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Looking through them now, there's some that still haven't been swapped by Catzlaflame and others that need to be fixed up. I'll write up a list rn

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Gonna be a long list so bare with me here. Any name that doesn't have a rename suggestion should be left as-is unless the text below each section specifies otherwise.

Alexander the Great, Iskandar (Rider) > "Iskandar (Fate)"
Alexander the Great (Rider) > "Alexander (Fate)"

The Persian version of his name is specifically used to refer to his older counterpart and vice-versa.

Alter Ego (Ashiya Douman) > "Ashiya Douman (Fate)"
Alter Ego (Mecha Eli-chan MkII) > "Mecha Eli-chan Mk.II"
Alter Ego (Mecha Eli-chan) > "Mecha Eli-chan"
Alter Ego (Okita Alter) > "Okita Souji Alter"
Archer (Baobhan Sith) > "Baobhan Sith (Fate)"
Shielder > "Mash Kyrielight"
Foreigner (Abigail Williams) > "Abigail Williams (Fate)"
Foreigner (MHXX) > "Mysterious Heroine XX"
Moon Cancer (BB Pele) > "BB Pele"
Moon Cancer (Ganesha) > "Ganesha (Fate)"
Ruler (Qin Shi Huang) > "Qin Shi Huang (Fate)"
False Assassin > "No Name Assassin"
False Berserker > "Jack the Ripper (Berserker)"
False Caster > "Alexandre Dumas (Fate)"
False Rider > "Pale Rider"
True Archer > "Alcides (Fate)"
True Caster > "François Prelati (Fate)"

These survived the swap for one reason or another.

Artoria Pendragon (Saber Alter) > "Artoria Pendragon Alter (Saber)", with "Saber Alter" being a redirect.
Artoria Pendragon (Rider Alter) > "Artoria Pendragon Alter (Rider)"
Artoria Pendragon (Lancer Alter) > "Artoria Pendragon Alter (Lancer)"
Artoria Pendragon Santa (Rider Alter) > "Artoria Pendragon Alter (Santa)"
Jeanne d'Arc (Avenger Alter) > "Jeanne d'Arc Alter (Avenger)"
Jeanne Alter (Berserker) > "Jeanne d'Arc Alter (Berserker)"
Jeanne Alter Lily (Lancer) > "Jeanne d'Arc Alter Santa Lily"
EMIYA Alter (Archer) > "EMIYA Alter"
MHX Alter (Berserker) > "Mysterious Heroine X Alter"
Cú Alter (Berserker) > "Cú Chulainn Alter"

The other Alter Servants are inconsistent, so I made the suggestions in line with the guidelines in the OP.

Ryougi Shiki > "Shiki Ryougi"
Shiki Ryougi (Assassin)
Shiki Ryougi (Saber)

Shiki's main page should be renamed to be consistent with the other two.

Kojirou Sasaki (Assassin) > "Sasaki Kojirou (Fate)"

Kojirou's page covers both his Saber and Assassin versions, and the other two depictions of Kojirou from other series, the disambiguation page, and the TYPE-MOON wiki all have it as "Sasaki Kojirou."

Yu Miaoyi (Assassin) > "Yu Mei-ren (Fate)"

Miaoyi isn't her actual name. I've been told it was taken off some unrelated TV drama and became a fandom rumor for a while, so any reference to it should be removed.

Kama (Fate Series) > "Kama (Fate)"
Surtr (Fate Series) > "Surtr (Fate)"
Aphrodite (Fate)
Caliburn (Fate)
Cernunnos (Fate)
Demeter (Fate)
Ea (Fate)
Enkidu (Fate)
Excalibur (Fate)
Tiamat (Fate)
Vortigern (Fate)
Zeus (Fate)

Our use of "Fate" or "Fate series" was inconsistent, so the outliers should be renamed to maintain consistency.

Bazett Fraga McRemitz (Fate/Kaleid) > Bazett Fraga McRemitz (Fate/kaleid)"
Illyasviel von Einzbern (Fate/Kaleid) > "Illyasviel von Einzbern (Fate/kaleid)"
Sakura Matou (Fate/kaleid)
Shinji Matou (Fate/Kaleid) > "Shinji Matou (Fate/kaleid)"
Shirou Emiya (Fate/kaleid)

Might be a bit of a nitpick, but the Prisma Illya pages have inconsistent capitalization. Lower case "kaleid" is what's used on the official logo.

Arjuna Alter (Berserker) > "Arjuna Alter"
Arthur Pendragon (Saber) > "Arthur Pendragon (Fate/Prototype)"
Caesar (Saber) > "Gaius Julius Caesar (Fate)"
Cú Chulainn (Lancer Prototype) > "Cú Chulainn (Fate/Prototype)"
Gilgamesh (Archer Prototype) > "Gilgamesh (Fate/Prototype)"
Hassan of Serenity (Assassin) > "Hassan of Serenity"
Hassan of the Cursed Arm (Assassin) > "Hassan of the Cursed Arm"
Hassan-i-Sabbah (Assassin) > Hassan of the Hundred Faces
Ishtar (Archer) > "Ishtar (Fate/Grand Order)" (To distinguish her from the version of Ishtar in Fate/strange Fake)
Fillia > "Ishtar (Fate/strange Fake)" (Since Fillia is just the homunculus she possesses)
Iskandar's Shadow (Faker) > "Iskandar's Shadow"
Jaguar Man (Lancer) > "Jaguar Man"
Medea Lily (Caster) > "Medea Lily"
MHX (Assassin) > "Mysterious Heroine X"
Nero (Playable Saber) > "Nero Claudius (Fate)"
No Name (Playable Archer) > "No Name (Archer)"
Nursery Rhyme, Alice (Caster) > "Nursery Rhyme"
Scáthach-Skadi (Caster) > "Scáthach-Skadi"
Solomon ibn Gabirol, Avicebron (Caster) > "Avicebron (Fate)"
Space Ishtar (Avenger) > "Space Ishtar"
Super Orion (Archer) > "Super Orion"
Tamamo Cat (Berserker) > "Tamamo Cat"

This is just covering all the ones leftover that (I'm assuming) can't be automatically covered by doing a Find and Replace or whatever the program that automated the prior move wave does.

Achilles (Rider of Red)
Anastasia (Caster)
Angra Mainyu (Avenger)
Antonio Salieri (Avenger)
Arash (Archer)
Archimedes (Caster)
Arjuna (Archer)
Artemis (Archer)
Asclepius (Caster)
Asterios (Berserker)
Atalanta (Archer of Red)
Aśvatthāmā (Archer)
Bartholomew Roberts (Rider)
Bedivere (Saber)
Beni-enma (Saber)
Beowulf (Berserker)
Billy the Kid (Archer)
Boudica (Rider)
Brynhildr (Lancer)
Caligula (Berserker)
Carmilla (Assassin)
Chacha (Berserker)
Charles Babbage (Caster)
Charles-Henri Sanson (Assassin)
Charlotte Corday (Assassin)
Chevalier d'Eon (Saber)
Chiron (Archer of Black)
Christopher Columbus (Rider)
Cleopatra (Assassin)
Darius III (Berserker)
David (Archer)
Dioscuri (Saber)
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (Assassin)
Edmond Dantès (Avenger)
Edward Teach (Rider)
Ereshkigal (Lancer)
Eric Bloodaxe (Berserker)
Euryale (Archer)
Fergus mac Róich (Saber)
Fionn mac Cumhaill (Lancer)
Fuma Kotaro (Assassin)
Gao Changgong (Saber)
Gareth (Lancer)
Gawain (Saber)
Geronimo (Caster)
Gorgon (Avenger)
Hans Christian Andersen (Caster)
Hector (Lancer)
Hessian Lobo (Avenger)
Hijikata Toshizou (Berserker)
Hippolyta (True Rider)
Hōzōin Inshun (Lancer)
Ivan the Terrible (Rider)
Jason (Saber)
Jing Ke (Assassin)
Karl der Große (Ruler)
Karna (Lancer of Red)
Katou Danzou (Assassin)
Kijyo Koyo (Berserker)
Lakshmibai (Saber)
Leonidas (Lancer)
Lü Bu Fèngxiān (Berserker)
Mandricardo (Rider)
Mata Hari (Assassin)
Maxwell's Demon (Caster)
Medb (Rider)
Medea (Caster)
Mephistopheles (Caster)
Merlin (Caster)
Mori Nagayoshi (Berserker)
Musashi Miyamoto (Saber)
Musashibou Benkei (Lancer)
Nagao Kagetora (Lancer)
Nikola Tesla (Archer)
Okada Izō (Assassin)
Okita Souji (Saber)
Osakabehime (Assassin)
Ozymandias (Rider)
Paracelsus (Caster)
Paris (Archer)
Parvati (Lancer)
Paul Bunyan (Berserker)
Phantom of the Opera (Assassin)
Queen of Sheba (Caster)
Rama (Saber)
Red Hare (Rider)
Richard I (Saber)
Robin Hood (Archer)
Romulus (Lancer)
Romulus-Quirinus (Lancer)
Saint George (Rider)
Sakamoto Ryouma (Rider)
Scheherazade (Caster)
Sei Shonagon (Archer)
Semiramis (Assassin of Red)
Senji Muramasa (Saber)
Sherlock Holmes (Ruler)
Shuten-douji (Assassin)
Siegfried (Saber of Black)
Sigurd (Saber)
Solomon (Caster)
Spartacus (Berserker of Red)
Stheno (Assassin)
Tawara Touta (Archer)
Thomas Edison (Caster)
Tomoe Gozen (Archer)
Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Saber)
Tristan (Archer)
Ushiwakamaru (Rider)
Vritra (Lancer)
Watanabe no Tsuna (Saber)
William Shakespeare (Caster)
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Caster)
Wu Zetian (Assassin)
Xuanzang (Caster)
Yan Qing (Assassin)

All of the links in the quote box directly above should have their brackets be replaced with "(Fate)" instead. This part can be automated, just replace the full brackets ("(Saber)" instead of "Saber") so as to not mess up the Apocrypha pages, otherwise we might get something like Siegfried ((Fate) of Black).

That should be everything. I'm assuming the pages that need to be merged will be once they get revised in general (or if someone else wants to get around to it before), so I left those out since they'll be tampered with later on anyway.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Gonna be a long list so bare with me here.

I was honestly thinking of doing what the TM wiki does and have the seperate class pages on the top of the page