Marcos vs Jinbei

[SatellaTheWoE]

Jinbei
Vs
Marcos

Everything above 6C is restricted

Speed is equalized

Starting distance is 20m
SBA

 

[Kachon123]

Jinbe has higher AP and durability. Does Marcos have any way to bypass Jinbe's Armament Haki defense? Does he have any way to protect himself from Fish-Man Karate's durability negating attacks, which targets and hits the moisture inside of opponent's body. Jinbe is also likely far superior in terms of skill, being able to skillstomp 40 Dan masters of Fish-Man Karate and fight alongside and against people like Luffy, Ace, Zoro, and Sanji. Jinbe has much higher Lifting Strength as well so once he gets his hands on Marcos, the fight ends there unless I'm missing something.

 

[Lort15]

following

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Jinbe has higher AP and durability. Does Marcos have any way to bypass Jinbe's Armament Haki defense? Does he have any way to protect himself from Fish-Man Karate's durability negating attacks, which targets and hits the moisture inside of opponent's body. Jinbe is also likely far superior in terms of skill, being able to skillstomp 40 Dan masters of Fish-Man Karate and fight alongside and against people like Luffy, Ace, Zoro, and Sanji. Jinbe has much higher Lifting Strength as well so once he gets his hands on Marcos, the fight ends there unless I'm missing something.

I thought you were saying Marco < Jinbe

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Jinbe has higher AP and durability.

It's not specified on his profile what value he scales to, so could you clarify?

Does Marcos have any way to bypass Jinbe's Armament Haki defense?

They are comparable in AP

Does he have any way to protect himself from Fish-Man Karate's durability negating attacks, which targets and hits the moisture inside of opponent's body.

He was hit by the same kind of dura neg by Roswaal and just endured it

Jinbe is also likely far superior in terms of skill,

Nuh uh

being able to skillstomp 40 Dan masters of Fish-Man Karate

Empty statement

and fight alongside and against people like Luffy, Ace, Zoro, and Sanji.

Fighting alongside doesn't make him as skilled (unless you think Subaru is as skilled as Reinhard )

Jinbe has much higher Lifting Strength as well so once he gets his hands on Marcos, the fight ends there unless I'm missing something.

Thats one way to win yeah


Btw what can be done to stop Marcos from skill stomping him along with copying his moves?
He also has Fa Jin which is a 10x power boost so if he uses that at any point jinbe gets in a lot of trouble

 

[Kachon123]

It's not specified on his profile what value he scales to, so could you clarify?

37.68 Gigatons.

They are comparable in AP

Not at all with Armament Haki. It's an extremely large amp that makes people relative to himself unable to scratch him. It also allows him to break their bones from trying to even attack him.

He was hit by the same kind of dura neg by Roswaal and just endured it

Scan? Also all Fish-Man Karate are not created equal. A baseline Fish-Man Karate has that hax, and as noted, Jinbe is by far the most skilled practioner of this technique in a world of 40, 100, and 1000 dan masters. Referenced to real Karate with mastery at 9th dan.

Fighting alongside doesn't make him as skilled (unless you think Subaru is as skilled as Reinhard )

He's fighting against them. And is just as skilled as they are.

Btw what can be done to stop Marcos from skill stomping him along with copying his moves?

Not getting skillstomped, Haki, and biology.

He also has Fa Jin which is a 10x power boost so if he uses that at any point jinbe gets in a lot of trouble

Doubt it. Jinbe has very good Kenbunshoku Haki and he'd just restrain and crushing him at once with his LS, stopping any attack from hitting him at all.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

37.68 Gigatons.

So a 1.4x advantage which is basically negligible

Not at all with Armament Haki. It's an extremely large amp that makes people relative to himself unable to scratch him. It also allows him to break their bones from trying to even attack him.

I should have clarified this earlier, I am restricting everything above 6C, so I don't think bushoku actually even is valid

Scan?

Whoops actually looking back on it:
A normal Fa Jin is internal damage dura neg and Full body Fa Jin actually amps the dura neg to 10x

Full-Body Fa Jin: A Fa Jin that Roswaal performs with his entire body to increase the surface area of his attack. It is 10 times stronger than a regular Fa Jin.

Also all Fish-Man Karate are not created equal. A baseline Fish-Man Karate has that hax

Scan?

, and as noted, Jinbe is by far the most skilled practioner of this technique in a world of 40, 100, and 1000 dan masters.

He might be but that by itself does not hold any meaning whatsoever

Referenced to real Karate with mastery at 9th dan.

Good for him

He's fighting against them. And is just as skilled as they are.

He clearly isn't considering the different types of haki and skills they showcase that HE cannot

Not getting skillstomped,

Kachon my beloved please elaborate
For Marcos he upscales from basically everybody in Lugunica that isn't Reinhard
So stuff like Garfs attack reflection where he lets all the damage out of his body, or Ram's movement to lessen the damage and we have seen him instantly copy moves mid battle as well so Jinbei is at the risk of having all his arsenal completely copied in a prolonged battle

Haki,

He also has arguably better precog, considering even an untrained child Emilia could dodge a perception blitzing danmaku attack by reading the intent of the attackers, upscales from Garfiel which gives him IR to the point where every single action can be done without any delay in mind/body. I don't think Jinbei has anything similar to keep up which could mean Marcos would be able to output more attacks at a faster rate despite being equal speed

and biology.

If you had the chance would you try shark soup

Doubt it. Jinbe has very good Kenbunshoku Haki and he'd just restrain and crushing him at once with his LS,

I think Jinbei prefers striking palm attacks and such, Marcos does the same too. I can't recall Marcos ever even trying to grapple so I doubt the fight would even go there
He also has a rock armor which he uses to amp his dura and basically become title card

stopping any attack from hitting him at all.

X doubt since Jinbei doesn't have any superiority in combat skill

 

[VortechsTG]

So a 1.4x advantage which is basically negligible

Mind you, Marcos' scaling comes from him being equal to Echidna, and the 26.474 Gigaton feat is an extremely casual feat from a version of her that lost "most" of her power.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Mind you, Marcos' scaling comes from him being equal to Echidna, and the 26.474 Gigaton feat is an extremely casual feat from a version of her that lost "most" of her power.

Even lowballing and saying it's only a 51% loss in power means that his AP is likely double, right?

 

[Kachon123]

I should have clarified this earlier, I am restricting everything above 6C, so I don't think bushoku actually even is valid

Busoshoku isn't rated as above 6-C. It just upscales massively.

A normal Fa Jin is internal damage dura neg and Full body Fa Jin actually amps the dura neg to 10x

It gets blocked with Haki.

Scan?

Here.

Kachon my beloved please elaborate
For Marcos he upscales from basically everybody in Lugunica that isn't Reinhard
So stuff like Garfs attack reflection where he lets all the damage out of his body, or Ram's movement to lessen the damage and we have seen him instantly copy moves mid battle as well so Jinbei is at the risk of having all his arsenal completely copied in a prolonged battle

Jinbe is also very skilled in his own right, but I'm not going to sit here and have a skill debate. Marcos can copy all the techniques he wants. Haki and biology make the difference.

He also has arguably better precog, considering even an untrained child Emilia could dodge a perception blitzing danmaku attack by reading the intent of the attackers, upscales from Garfiel which gives him IR to the point where every single action can be done without any delay in mind/body. I don't think Jinbei has anything similar to keep up which could mean Marcos would be able to output more attacks at a faster rate despite being equal speed

Ignoring the fact that baseline Haki grants the same thing and Jinbe has much better than baseline Kenbunshoku, all of this falls short to literally seeing glimpses into the future. Jinbe, who is already an extremely skilled master of Fish-Man Karate with more experience in both fighting and teaching the martial art will still be having the advantage. Anything he does, Jinbe will do better simply due to the fact that he knows counters, can see into the future, and is far more experienced.

If you had the chance would you try shark soup

Central Park has several large water sources, and Fish-Man Karate is a fighting style specifically made a catered toward the Biology of Fish-Men. Marcos can copy martial arts but he can not copy biology. The potency of Fish-Man Karate doubles when used by a Fish-Man near water and its effectiveness increases exponentially. Marcos has none of these biological advantages. Nor does he have a single stat advantage to make up for it.

I think Jinbei prefers striking palm attacks and such, Marcos does the same too. I can't recall Marcos ever even trying to grapple so I doubt the fight would even go there
He also has a rock armor which he uses to amp his dura and basically become title card

Jinbe does not prefer any specific type of attacks. He uses Fish-Man Ju Jitsu, which literally centers around grappling, and Fish-Man Karate, which uses various strikes like durability negating ranged punches and kicks.

X doubt since Jinbei doesn't have any superiority in combat skill

Having combat skill does not mean that you can't be grabbed. Jinbe is just as skilled, has far higher LS, has precog among other sensory abilities, and has a fighting style that is literally just grappling. If you're saying that Marcos isn't getting grabbed at all then you'd also have to argue that he isn't getting hit in the first place, which you can't do.

 

[Zabazab]

Mind you, Marcos' scaling comes from him being equal to Echidna, and the 26.474 Gigaton feat is an extremely casual feat from a version of her that lost "most" of her power.

Nah, that doesn't apply when Omega manifests her soul, which she does when she performs her feat.

Omega looked up above her as she said that. The sky was still covered in heavy clouds, with not a star in sight. That irked her, so she swung her arms up.

In an instant, a gust of wind kicked into life far above in the skies and dispersed the clouds, revealing the pale moon behind.

Palmyra: [...Hgha]

Moonlight poured down from the pale moon, illuminating the girls in the forest clearing. Then, the girl who was embracing the “Beast”, and was face-to-face with this ancient being, gasped.

Because, the girl who’d been standing before her eyes was…

Omega: [...I see. The fact that you can keep your cool while looking at me means you have promise.]

...a white-haired “Witch” with the hint of a smile on her face. –Witch's After Tea Party / Requirements to be a Witch

Echidna: [The point Sekhmet brought up now was rather interesting, but you needn’t worry about it. I am not going to repeat my past mistakes. The problem I had with those was that I shaved off parts of my soul to make myself fit into the vessel. That’s why this time, I shaved off a different part.]

Carmila: [A-A... A different… part... W-Which one?]

Echidna: [My powers.]

She had to regulate how much of herself she could pour into the vessel she called Omega, otherwise she wouldn’t fit.

This time around, Echidna had cast aside the powers she had no particular attachment to, in order to preserve herself. Thanks to that, she’d been able to step out from the Sanctuary while still keeping her own identity.

And in exchange for that…

Echidna: [It seems like I’ve regrettably lost most of the powers and skills I developed as a Witch. I still have the knowledge, but I don’t imagine it will be easy for me to regain my former strength.]

(Snip)

The key thing now was that Omega had lost her powers, making her extremely weak and fragile.

Echidna: [Of course that doesn’t apply when I materialise myself, even if it’s just for a short amount of time. Most people end up dying from mental breakdowns just by looking at me, thanks to my miasma. It’s just that I don’t want to make heavy use of it. Anyhow, I…] –Witch's After Tea Party / Witch's Evaluation Meeting

 

[VortechsTG]

Nah, that doesn't apply when Omega manifests her soul, which she does when she performs her feat.

Hmmm, so it seems. Thanks for the correction. Though it's still an extremely casual feat. It's certainly not one of her forbidden techniques that are said to be far above anything else.

 

[Kachon123]

I'd also like to mention that Jinbe scales way higher than his value.

The value comes from a casua1l No-Haki headbutt attack from Don Chinjao. For reference, Don Chinjao gets the majority of his AP and infamy from the hardness and strength of his Haki-Coated head, meaning this represents only a fraction of a casual1 Chinjao's power.


Luffy in Gear second was able to clash with a bloodlusted Haki-Coated Don Chinjao and nearly knock him out with direct hits. Jinbe without using any Haki or Fish-Man Karate/Ju Jitsu was scoffing at those same attacks that nearly one-shot Don-Chinjao.

I already explained how big of an amp Jinbe's Haki is, and Fish-Man Karate/Ju Jitsu double in potency and speed when in water.

 

[Kachon123]

Bump. What's Marcos' wincon?

 

[SlendVeny]

Bump. What's Marcos' wincon?

Calling in the other Whitebeard Pirates

 

[Lort15]

sooooooooooooo, who is winning?

 

[Zabazab]

Marcos' fighting style is pretty simple as far as we know. He's said to be a skilled swordsman, but we've seen him fight with his fists more often. Also the story where he actually does a good bit of fighting isn't translated so I can't give excessive detail.

His main gimmick is the Forbidden Art that was applied to his soul, which lets him convert his mana into a thick stone armour coating his whole body, making him stronger, tougher, and immune to the likes of poison. The armour is also self-regenerating as long as Marcos has mana, so even piling on attacks isn't that effective. In the fight where he gained the forbidden art, his fist burst with blood when he tried to hit his weaponkin opponent, but after gaining the armour, it was opponent who exploded when struck.

Marcos can also withstand attacks targeting his organs very well, he was fighting fit even after a shockwave fa jin to the abdomen, and even a version imbued with fire magic to scorch his insides. His ability to absorb martial arts and use them freely is pretty useful, he was able to use a more advanced form of fa jin (full-body fa jin) after experiencing the basic form. Full-body fa jin also multiplies the technique's power by ten times.

So yeah Marcos' strategy is pretty much to punch really hard.

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah I think Marcos just gets physically overwhelmed then. Haki would block out all of Marcos' attacks while he has no choice but to just endure all of Jinbe's.

 

[VortechsTG]

Jinbe has no resistance to durability negation on his profile nor have I seen any feats provided of him doing so. I have no reason to believe he would be able to survive Marcos' attacks at all and he gets outskilled here by someone who simply comes from a verse with far better skill feats for even lesser characters like Elsa than I've seen mentioned here for Jinbe and can even outmatch an extraordinary genius like Roswaal who has fought some of the world's strongest shinobi.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Doesn't Jinbei have superior AP/Dura even in "base", has ways to increase the gap between stats further and has such a massive LS advantage over Marcos that Jinbei could rip him in half like that one time a Gorila came out of nowhere and, well, ripped Spongebob in half? Like stat-wise, Jinbei can bully Marcos, for lack of a better way to describe it.

... More important, none of Marcos's skill feats are in his profile-hell, there is nothing in his Intel section at all-so ya gotta post scans for this sorta of thing. Also, why not use Roswaal or just someone more interesting in general? Marcos is a boring brick that can just throw hands and make rock armor.

 

[Zabazab]

Marcos is a boring brick that can just throw hands and make rock armor.

He's goated in side stories I swear But yeah Roswaal's style is just a lot cooler.

 

[Kachon123]

Jinbe has no resistance to durability negation on his profile nor have I seen any feats provided of him doing so.

Haki does.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Should i change this to Roswaal L Mathers?

 

[VortechsTG]

Haki does.

Busoshoku Haki doesn't strengthen the insides of the user's body, allowing them to be susceptible to internal attacks.

It outright says otherwise on the armament haki page but alright man.

 

[VortechsTG]

Should i change this to Roswaal L Mathers?

That would just be a stomp.

 

[Kachon123]

It outright says otherwise on the armament haki page but alright man.

Haki doesn't strengthen the insides. It can protect shockwaves from the outside though.

The unblockable shockwave style of Hasshoken has durability negation, but it can be blocked from the outside using Haki.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Should i change this to Roswaal L Mathers?

Roswaal Vs Sans. First person to find out their opponent is a time manipulator wins

 

[VortechsTG]

The unblockable shockwave style of Hasshoken has durability negation

This is not backed up by the scans you provided nor are there any for the ability on the wiki.

 

[Kachon123]

This is not backed up by the scans you provided nor are there any for the ability on the wiki.

This is probably a reading comprehension issue because It literally is shown and stated in the scans I sent. I have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Kachon123]

This is not backed up by the scans you provided nor are there any for the ability on the wiki.

Expert Hasshoken user (Particularly with the use of his head), Vibration Manipulation and Durability Negation (Can use the Happo Navy's special technique utilizing vibrations to harm the enemy, which can bypass armor and shields to harm their opponents, and can also send them inside the bodies of others

Chinjao

A former pirate and leader of the Happo Navy and a participant in the Corrida Coliseum to compete for the Mera Mera no Mi. He holds a grudge against Garp for ruining his life. He extended this grudge onto his grandson Luffy, but Luffy, being himself, manages to make him an ally. He has a bounty...

vsbattles.fandom.com

5 second research. Or just look at the scans I sent.

 

[VortechsTG]

5 second research. Or just look at the scans I sent.

No, THIS is a reading comprehension issue. As I already said, there are no scans for this ability here on the wiki. This is what I am talking about. Nothing is even linked here at all. But the scans you sent only show it bypassing shields and armor. That is not the same thing as what Marcos does.

 

[Kachon123]

No, THIS is a reading comprehension issue. As I already said, there are no scans for this ability here on the wiki. This is what I am talking about. Nothing is even linked here at all. But the scans you sent only show it bypassing shields and armor. That is not the same thing as what Marcos does.

Fa Jin

Fa Jin: A bare-handed technique which allows Roswaal to send his attack as a shockwave through either an object or a body- striking through walls or attacking internal organs.

• Durability Negation (Can directly damage the internal organs, bypassing defenses)

Its destructive power was so great that if it connected, it would affect not only bone but the internal organs as well; the instant it struck, a layer of ice caught the blow.
With a tremendous sound, the frozen shield shattered. Puck, the one who had created the instantaneous defense, whistled.

"That is a combat technique I learned from a ninja who hailed from the west long ago to strike from afar, reaching even past defenses. Effective, yes?"
Struck not by a direct hit but by a shock wave, Ram staggered backward. Her bones creaked, and her innards cried out.

vs

Hasshoken

There It is!! The Unblockable shock-wave Style, Hasshoken!!! No shield or armor can block their devastating blows!!!

Hassho-ken Secret art!!! I will Pulverize Every bone in your body!!!

Expert Hasshoken user (Particularly with the use of his head), Vibration Manipulation and Durability Negation (Can use the Happo Navy's special technique utilizing vibrations to harm the enemy, which can bypass armor and shields to harm their opponents, and can also send them inside the bodies of others

There's nothing simple About it. It destroys the body...Starting with the spinal cord!

Feats shown exactly the same as how Fa Jin is described


You can't be serious right now

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Wait you are basing the reasoning for his internal dura neg by saying that it would "pulverize the bones"?

Kachon what are you smoking, that's something you can literally do by having a higher AP

 

[Kachon123]

Wait you are basing the reasoning for his internal dura neg by saying that it would "pulverize the bones"?

Kachon what are you smoking, that's something you can literally do by having a higher AP

I'm not going to insult you but if you think that's my "basis" after seeing 4 different posts of accepted on the wiki proof then I'm not going to waste my time answering poorly thought out questions like this. Be obtuse somewhere else.

 

[VortechsTG]

You can't be serious right now

You are now providing quotes you didn't before and acting like you already sent them. Don't take that tone with me. But if those are real then you are correct. He would be able to block it.

 

[Kachon123]

I provided all of those earlier in the form profile links and imgur scans but alright.

 

[VortechsTG]

Ok, so if we're arguing fa'jin isn't a valid win-con, and Marcos can't scratch Jinbe, and Jinbe can tear him in half... then this is a complete mismatch now.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Rip
Should I change to Roswaal now? Or should this be closed?

 

[VortechsTG]

Should I change to Roswaal now?

Let's not do that

 

[Mickey1940]

Marcos scales to the likes of Roswald and Echidna, who are significantly stronger than 26.474 Gigatons
Jinbe can casually fight Beginning of timeskip Gear 2 Luffy, who is 37.68 Gigatons

so Jinbe is a good bit stronger
Both their styles have dura neg due to internal damage (@Kachon123 d*ckriding haki again claiming that internal damage deals zero damage to haki users when Chinjao hit Garp in the hand there's no organs in your hand to dura neg, not to mention haki doesn't protect you from just getting punched in the f*cking stomach which is what Fa Jin is)

even if you argue that Fa Jin doesn't do internal damage for whatever reason, Marcos just copies Fishman Karate boom now he has internal damage too whoopee

Their skill is comparable, as they're about the same age and are great martial artists in their own right...
...eeeexcept Marcos can just copy everything once again, and also has Instinctive Action, Perception Manipulation (self time slow), Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception, Information Analysis, Analytical Prediction, and the aformetioned Power Mimicry, all of which can also keep up with Jinbe's Kenbun so Kenbun's not a relevant advantage. In fact, Marcos's kaleidoscope of sensory abilities is blatantly superior to anything Intermediate Kenbun has ever done

In my mind, both can win based on interpretation
1. If you take what I've said so far at base value, Jinbe wins. He's a good bit stronger, has similar Martial Arts skill (albeit worse cuz of power mimicry), far greater Lifting Strength, and VASTLY superior stamina. Jinbe can just outlast Marcos gg
2. If you take Re:Zero Fa Jin's description literally, then Marcos just 1 shots cuz Fa Jin attacks can be amped to 10 times stronger depending on the surface area of the strike

The first is more likely tho

so overall, I'm still voting Jinbe cuz of lifting strength, AP, and stamina