[Witch Must Die Edition] - Yu vs Mikey REMATCH

[Viott]

Sorry but i don't think will work on Mikey

Mikey could resist DI which made Kazutora go insane, he also managed to overcome depression by his sister death, i don't think SI of Yu's caliber will work on Mikey

I don't think any of the things you mentioned count as resistance to fear hax.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I don't think any of the things you mentioned count as resistance to fear hax.

Social Influencing fear can be overcomed by normal willpower, Mikey resisted something supernatural

 

[Zefra3011]

I don't think any of the things you mentioned count as resistance to fear hax.

This is the best Yu's SI is gonna do.

The feat you took is against someone who is specifically vulnerable to violence. He had a bad past and Yu reminded him of that. It won't apply to Mikey. Mikey at most will feel some sort of tension, like Ryu, but that's it.

 

[Dinozxd]

I'll not reply to most of @Viott 's stuff to not rile up the thread cuz it just feels like ragebait atp ngl.

First of all, I didn't participate in this thread. And I'm not going to read all 9 pages. Tell me which page you're on.

To be fr, I'm too lazy to read all that to find the page where we talked over that. I found this thread which we also discuss pressure point durability.

Basically, the pressure point in question (the balls in this case) should be treated as guaranteed ohko moves that bypass durability in verse to be considered dura neg. Plus, suggesting that every characters' groin area being as durable as irl people's groin area is an association fallacy.

I mean, do you realized Takemichi was aim dodging (moving before the kick happened) all of Mikey's kicks? Same thing.

Well, we know how aim dodging for Takemichi went though.

But I was talking about general ANPR and AIM dodging. Yu specifically hardly completely aim dodges because he never really needed too. He mostly dodges as soon as the attack starts (when needed), when it barely have any speed. Or, with the same timing, he can interrupt attacks as soon as they start by punching.

Well Mikey uses kicks so interrupting attacks as soon as they start is out the table. Dodging as soon as the attack starts would make it really hard for him to dodge Mikey's attacks as he will basically be much faster than him.

There's also a scene where Yu keeps up with attacks he can't react to. They were so fast Yu couldn't move his head away in time. Yet he used his own punch to deflect the opponent's ones. He could percieve them with slow motion though.

I'm pretty sure I saw that scene. Tbh I didn't really look like he couldn't react to them (he wouldn't be able to move if that wasn't the case), he was kinda just slower than them to the point where he had to block them instead of dodging them, but couldn't block due to the AP difference, so he deflected the punches instead.

Also Yu's slow motion scales magnitudes above any of his other speeds, above monster stance too.

To be fair, Yu would require to move 0,2 m at most to be out Mikey's kick trajectory while Mikey's signature kick requires his leg to move over 2 m... Yu would keep up with him by sheer reaction as long as he can perceive the kicks. Mikey kicks > Yu percieve the attacks after he moves few centimeters > Yu reads the trajectory of the attack > Yu moves enough to be out of it > Mikey misses. Even without ANPR, Yu's slow motion is a big guy to bypass.

His slow mo isn't enough for him to dodge kicks though. Even if he sees the attack coming, he has to react to it to actually move out the way of the attack.

Honestly while Precognition is better than ANPR for a matter of requiring less intelligence and being, usually, more precise, it doesn't mean that a Precognition user is always better than an ANPR user. There are characters who can outpredict entire danamkus and aim dodging dozen of attacks at the same time with simple ANPR... It's all a matter of skill at the end. The point isn't "precognition vs anpr" but it's the skill of the users.
Between Yu and Takemichi there is an abyss. Takemichi could barely keep up with Mikey and required a lot of time to make up a strategy to hit him, and the strategy itself is a simple counter punch. It's not an impress tactic in The Boxer (even IRL to be honest), it's the first thing Yu does when he wasn't experienced and he even did it more precisely.

This is correct, but I was more of talking about "hitting through prcog vs hitting through anpr", as it's not Takemichi vs Yu, it's Mikey vs Yu.

This is the best Yu's SI is gonna do.

The feat you took is against someone who is specifically vulnerable to violence. He had a bad past and Yu reminded him of that. It won't apply to Mikey. Mikey at most will feel some sort of tension, like Ryu, but that's it.

Idk what Ryu's past is but if Yu's SI is about violence or killing, I doubt that would even flinch Kanto Manji Mikey. The guy casually kills people with bare hands.

Also can someone answer if Yu can do anything aganist Mikey's fear hax or not?

 

[RoggerReggor]

Quoting from the Verse page itself:

Disclaimer: To curb increasingly frequent behavioral rule violations and sockpuppetry issues with users primarily interested in this verse, members must have accounts registered for at least one year and at least 1000 forum messages before participating in revisions for it, and the verse's characters may not be used in versus threads. At their discretion, staff members intimately familiar with this verse may grant permission for productive users with less account history and/or posts to participate in revisions or disqualify suspicious and misbehaving members from participating independent of their account history and/or posts.

So, I guess the rule is still up.

As Dinozxd said, the best you can do right now is actually verify the information with the staff about the rule still being up (or not), and if it is still followed, then maybe request them to remove it.

Any further discussion before that might just be a wastage of time for all the people involved.

 

[Viott]

I'll not reply to most of @Viott 's stuff to not rile up the thread cuz it just feels like ragebait atp ngl.

I don't care, your arguments didn't convince me. My arguments were better.

To be fr, I'm too lazy to read all that to find the page where we talked over that. I found this thread which we also discuss pressure point durability.

Basically, the pressure point in question (the balls in this case) should be treated as guaranteed ohko moves that bypass durability in verse to be considered dura neg. Plus, suggesting that every characters' groin area being as durable as irl people's groin area is an association fallacy.

The groin is much more sensitive than pressure points. If Mikey's durability is 1.84 megajoules, it's unreasonable to assume his groin has the same durability, since it's a significantly weaker area. Unless there's proof that the groin can withstand 1.84 megajoules, I don't agree with that.

 

[Viott]

As long as my vote isn't counted, staying here is just a waste of time.

 

[Dinozxd]

The groin is much more sensitive than pressure points. If Mikey's durability is 1.84 megajoules, it's unreasonable to assume his groin has the same durability, since it's a significantly weaker area. Unless there's proof that the groin can withstand 1.84 megajoules, I don't agree with that.

It's probably less durable than the value he scales AP wise (which is 4.6 MJ btw not 1.84 as the OP hasn't restricted the likely rating), but the value the groin scales to compared to physical durability of his body is unquantifiable. Meaning that even though I can't surely say Mikey can tank a 4.6 MJ strike to his groin, you can't surely say that Yu can damage him in that area with 150 KJ, as how much his groin scales lower compared to his physical durability is unquantifiable.

It's kinda like having the pressure points ability without dura neg or a certain tier they can harm with pressure points with. Sure, pressure point strikes would damage their opponent more than their normal strikes, but you can quantify them by multipliers and such. The same goes for the durability of your own pressure points as well. A 9-B character would tank a low blow from a 9-C character far easier than another 9-C character would.

As Dinozxd said, the best you can do right now is actually verify the information with the staff about the rule still being up (or not), and if it is still followed, then maybe request them to remove it.

I will actually do that rn.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Haven't really checked most of this thread besides the OP and first page, so;

If Yu can just... get into Monster Stance whenever he wants, how is he not just, straight up winning? AD and stuff are nice and all, but not only is Yu's AnaP is WAY through the roof (he already dodged blitz shenanigans from Aaron, iirc), but dude also has AD of his own. Even if we assume it is not as good as Mikey, I really find it weird how he doesn't just, go Monster Stance, and end the fight once he realizes he can't damage Mikey that much?

 

[Viott]

It's probably less durable than the value he scales AP wise (which is 4.6 MJ btw not 1.84 as the OP hasn't restricted the likely rating), but the value the groin scales to compared to physical durability of his body is unquantifiable. Meaning that even though I can't surely say Mikey can tank a 4.6 MJ strike to his groin, you can't surely say that Yu can damage him in that area with 150 KJ, as how much his groin scales lower compared to his physical durability is unquantifiable.

It's kinda like having the pressure points ability without dura neg or a certain tier they can harm with pressure points with. Sure, pressure point strikes would damage their opponent more than their normal strikes, but you can quantify them by multipliers and such. The same goes for the durability of your own pressure points as well. A 9-B character would tank a low blow from a 9-C character far easier than another 9-C character would.

The profile only lists 4.6 MJ as "possible." Mikey has never trained to increase the durability of his groin. Mikey’s durability might improve, but that doesn’t apply to his groin. If you're claiming that a 150 KJ strike wouldn't damage his groin, then you need to prove it.

 

[Dinozxd]

The profile only lists 4.6 MJ as "possible."

No it's listed as "likely" and "likely" ratings can be used if they're not specifically restricted by the OP.

Also like I said 1.84 MJ is a huge lowball for Mikey. A mid tier performed that feat. Mikey's like 3 one shots above that guy, while he's just one shot above the likely 4.6 MJ value (without DI btw, with it he pretty much goes a one shot higher than that)

Mikey has never trained to increase the durability of his groin. Mikey’s durability might improve, but that doesn’t apply to his groin.

This is just association fallacy. Mikey being a human doesn't mean his groin is as durable to a human. Also like I said you can't really quantify his groin's durability. It's obvious that his durability down there doesn't scale to his physical durability, but you can't really prove that it's lower than any durability value. It just scales unquantifiably lower than his physical durability.

If you're claiming that a 150 KJ strike wouldn't damage his groin, then you need to prove it.

I don't have the burden of proof as that's a negative claim. You're the one who needs to prove that Yu can damage Mikey with a low blow.

 

[Viott]

This is just association fallacy. Mikey being a human doesn't mean his groin is as durable to a human. Also like I said you can't really quantify his groin's durability. It's obvious that his durability down there doesn't scale to his physical durability, but you can't really prove that it's lower than any durability value. It just scales unquantifiably lower than his physical durability.

I don't have the burden of proof as that's a negative claim. You're the one who needs to prove that Yu can damage Mikey with a low blow.

Even if Mikey's durability is 9-B, the groin area is extremely sensitive, so you need to prove that it's actually 9-B. You're the one who needs to prove that he can withstand a 150 kJ strike.

 

[Dinozxd]

Even if Mikey's durability is 9-B, the groin area is extremely sensitive, so you need to prove that it's actually 9-B. You're the one who needs to prove that he can withstand a 150 kJ strike.

You're just shifting the burden of proof here. You claimed that Yu would be able to damage Mikey with a low blow, which is a positive claim. I'm stating the opposite, which is a negative claim. The burden of proof is on you.

 

[Viott]

You're just shifting the burden of proof here. You claimed that Yu would be able to damage Mikey with a low blow, which is a positive claim. I'm stating the opposite, which is a negative claim. The burden of proof is on you.

A boxer's groin is as sensitive as that of a normal person. Even if Mikey's durability is 1.84 MJ, the durability of his groin could still be the same as a regular human's. You're the one who needs to prove that the durability of his groin has increased.

 

[Dinozxd]

A boxer's groin is as sensitive as that of a normal person. Even if Mikey's durability is 1.84 MJ, the durability of his groin could still be the same as a regular human's.

This is Association fallacy+Appeal to reality btw.

Also a boxer wouldn't take groin hits, like ever, so that's a bad example. There are videos of Kickboxers and muay thai fighters taking illegal groin kicks and just be a little disturbed by it at most.

You're the one who needs to prove that the durability of his groin has increased.

Like I said the burden of proof is not on me and you're trying to shift it to me.

 

[Viott]

Also a boxer wouldn't take groin hits, like ever, so that's a bad example.

You didn't understand what I was trying to say in the example I gave.

There are videos of Kickboxers and muay thai fighters taking illegal groin kicks and just be a little disturbed by it at most.

Because they use a groin protector. Lol

Like I said the burden of proof is not on me and you're trying to shift it to me.

I’m repeating: you're the one assuming this. So prove it.

 

[Dinozxd]

Because they use a groin protector. Lol

Oh I forgot abt that nevermind what i said abt kickboxers and muay thai fighters then.

Those fallacies you commited still stand tho.

I’m repeating: you're the one assuming this. So prove it.

assuming what? Yu not being able to damage Mikey with low blows? That's a negative claim. I don't have to prove shi. You're the one claiming something positive the burden of proof is on u. What you're doing is shifting the burden of proof, which is a fallacy as well.

If I see the same "You have to prove this" reply, I'll be ignoring you till i ask staff about lifting the vs thread ban of Mikey and they somehow accept it. If not, you're not getting another reply from me since this is just a waste of time atp.

 

[Viott]

If I respond to you, I'll have to repeat the same things for you to understand, so I'll ignore you.