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I legit just made an account to join in on these conversations, I wasn't aware he was going to. I mean, we don't need to continue this if we want to wait for said thread.
Also, It's been an entire month since the other CRTs from him on Tensura from what I'm aware of.
I legit just made an account to join in on these conversations, I wasn't aware he was going to. I mean, we don't need to continue this if we want to wait for said thread.
''Well, I cannot say either way, but if a completed physical body is in place, there may be a chance of the lost soul returning to it.''
''Mm, could be. Veldanava's a fully spiritual life-form, so his soul won't be scattered across the universe like Ludora's, I don't think. It's not impossible, no.''
Hmm... I think i'm losing sight of the logic here. --Yenpress
“I don’t know. It’s just that we can’t deny the possibility that the lost soul could come back if they have a perfected body.”
“Well, I guess. Veldanava is a complete spiritual life form, so I don’t think his soul was scattered like Rudra’s. You’re right, it is possible.”
Hmm, that theory still doesn’t make sense. --Slime Reader
I legit just made an account to join in on these conversations, I wasn't aware he was going to. I mean, we don't need to continue this if we want to wait for said thread.
My only concern is about the 2-A cycle. You can continue the thread; no need to wait for me. Your thread includes other stuff—I’ll see if I have time to comment on 2-A cycle.
Taking a break is one thing also I work on other verses too, and Tensura has translation issues, as you aware of, so it requires a lot of digging and checking context. It's a time-consuming verse for me. That’s why I usually only make CRTs when I'm most confident about the claims I'm putting forward.
From the last time I saw the raw for it, was correct. However, all Yenpress does is add the context thats already previously known.
We already know Rudra's soul was scattered across the verse, saying across the universe is up to interpretation, which is honestly what this CRT would decide anyway.
With what I know, YenPress usually adds that in, when it's previously been stated.
For example in Volume 16, I don't have the raws on me, but the phrase;
From the last time I saw the raw for it, was correct. However, all Yenpress does is add the context thats already previously known.
We already know Rudra's soul was scattered across the verse, saying across the universe is up to interpretation, which is honestly what this CRT would decide anyway.
That has nothing to do with it. Give me an another example of their being only 1 universe. Just because Fuse uses the word ''Universe'' sparingly doesn't mean that there is only one.
Also, It is plural as well as the reason why there are humans in different worlds (Universes).
Humanity was born, interlocked in parallel worlds of other dimensions. Perfect fertility, adaptability to the environment. They had a unique ego and a curiosity that challenged the mysteries of the world.
Veldanava rejoiced. He had come to love this fragile race more than anything else. Veldanava decided to remove the threat from the world for the sake of humanity. Feldway was also ordered to subdue various demons with his own hands. However, the last remaining individual was troublesome. It was Ivarage, the “World-destroying Dragon” who would later become the king of the cryptids.-- Slime Reader
Also, having the translator add stuff that the Raws don't even talk about is exactly why most people on the wiki don't use it. We are still having to deal with some of the problems that they made by them basically adding what they thought it was rather than what it actually was. As I said earlier, they have a laundry list of things that they have added which conflict with the story that Fuse intended.
That has nothing to do with it. Give me an another example of their being only 1 universe. Just because Fuse uses the word ''Universe'' sparingly doesn't mean that there is only one.
I'll just respond to this since I'll be sleeping soon, but I already listed out why Multiverse theory is incorrect as opposed to Single world theory. If that get's disproven, then we could open up the argument to multiple universes existing, but my entire premise is that Volume 11 sets a foundation for what to expect, while anything else has to have Vol11 taken into consideration when talking about subjects.
So my main piece of evidence is Chapter 5 of Vol11.
Parallel worlds, inside dimensions. I feel like that part is being ignored. They clearly differentiate parallel worlds and other dimensions. World in that case is smaller or contained in said dimension.
My proposal of Worlds being planets I will defend tomorrow since your prior reply also talks about that which I will address altogether.
What do you think parallel worlds OF other dimensions. Clearly shows the relation of the two. Parallel worlds are within or contained in the dimensions. So worlds are in dimensions right there. Just because the structure of the sentence is different in the OTL doesn't mean that's not what's being protrayed.
Dimensions can be called worlds, just as planets are, Do I have to bring in the evidence of Cardinal world being a planet? Called earth in slime reader as well?
I'll actually do that in Tomorrow response to everything you've said.
Also, I thought we don't use MTL, slime reader post volume 15 is MTL translated. So you bring volume 16 from slime reader, apparently isn't allowed, so I guess we wait for translators.
I'll just respond to this since I'll be sleeping soon, but I already listed out why Multiverse theory is incorrect as opposed to Single world theory. If that get's disproven, then we could open up the argument to multiple universes existing, but my entire premise is that Volume 11 sets a foundation for what to expect, while anything else has to have Vol11 taken into consideration when talking about subjects.
So my main piece of evidence is Chapter 5 of Vol11.
Parallel worlds, inside dimensions. I feel like that part is being ignored. They clearly differentiate parallel worlds and other dimensions. World in that case is smaller or contained in said dimension.
My proposal of Worlds being planets I will defend tomorrow since your prior reply also talks about that which I will address altogether.
Literally stated in your own Slime reader scan;
What do you think parallel worlds OF other dimensions. Clearly shows the relation of the two. Parallel worlds are within or contained in the dimensions. So worlds are in dimensions right there. Just because the structure of the sentence is different in the OTL doesn't mean that's not what's being protrayed.
Dimensions can be called worlds, just as planets are, Do I have to bring in the evidence of Cardinal world being a planet? Called earth in slime reader as well?
I'll actually do that in Tomorrow response to everything you've said.
Also, I thought we don't use MTL, slime reader post volume 15 is MTL translated. So you bring volume 16 from slime reader, apparently isn't allowed, so I guess we wait for translators.
Ill let you sleep after this response but Multiverse theory in that context means Many-Worlds Interpretation (where there are multiple versions of one person) rather than other universes that run on different laws of physics etc.
It also could mean "Other-dimensional parallel worlds" but we really do need a translator here.
It has been long established here on the wiki that there are multiple interpretations of the words: ''World'', ''Dimension'' and ''Space-Time'' all the way back to about 2019 with the Web Novel. As it is clear that World has a lot of interpretations, ones that are dimensional with walls and their own timeline are specifically implied to be universes and along with Yuuki and the fact that Mai says that the exact same world's universe is expanding faster than the speed of light as well as yuuki seeing the world (Universe) expand then disappear shows it underwent it's own heat death which is caused by spatial expansion. (Small tangent, In the Web Novel after stories Veldora, Ramiris and Beretta go to a different scientific world and they specifically refer to the world as a universe as well as a dimension.).
Slime Reader is an exception that is allowed, just not MTLs that are not checked by the translation helpers.
The term "Universe" cannot be applied because, like I've already discussed and brought to question, there cannot be other universes existing due to what volume 11, chapter 5, confirms. The only terms used in the series to referred to these spaces that other worlds exist in are dimensions, not universes. Not only that, but there is never a single statement in the series, other than vol 22 from what Yuuki guessed, that implies the existence of multiple universes.
A space-time continuum larger than the universe is also Low 2-C. It doesn't matter whether it's called a dimension, a universe, or a world.
Also, the fact that parallel universes do not exist does not prevent other universes from existing, it just means that there are no parallel versions of the cardinal universe.
Frankly, the only thing that can be taken seriously here is the infinite cycle argumant, which depends on whether the timeline actually being rewritten or not. Soon, I'll give my own reasons why rewrited the timeline doesn't make sense.
Then, at long last, humanity was born, its fate interlocked with a parallel world in another dimension. They were fertile, capable of adapting to their environment; they had richly individualistic egos, along with a curiosity attuned to the mysteries of the world. Veldanava was delighted. He loved this fragile species more than any of the others. So he decided to remove any threats from the world that could prevent the humans from continuing to exist. Feldway was given the task as well, and with his own hands, he defeated a slew of would-be menaces and monsters.
In addition, the universe in which humanity was born is itself a parallel world, and the existence of the phrase "parallel world" alone implies that more than one world/universe exists.
So Hinata silently listened as Chloe continued. Apparently, her time travel always took place in the same era, in the same axis of time those were likely the limitations of her skill. Exactly where she was taken depended on the timing of her out-of-control episodes.
Also, the time axis mentioned here does not refer to coordinate axes (or the timeline or space-time continuum) such as "x, y, z". It simply refers to Chloe returning to the same era, the same point in time as a result of her time travel. The reason of they calling these time travels loops is already because of this situation of returning to the same starting point. This would imply a multiverse model, where the timeline branches from a single point (unless the timeline is rewriting).
Yuuki being a genius doesn't mean in this particular situation he is correct, as I've just quoted that he was corrected by the narrative;
This was the narrative correcting Yuuki's original statement that time doesn't flow in subspace. When you bring up the fact that the narrative stated his guess was correct, he stated multiple different things prior to the confirmation, not just that time doesn't flow, such as;
Which directly refers to the narrative saying;
The right answer was referring to his guess about the light spheres being worlds and having flows of time, not the subspace itself being void of time. Even if the narrative was saying his comment about time not flowing in subspace, that would be contradicted by the fact it corrected that mistake and stated there was a flow of time which Yuuki guessed wrong, so still, Yuuki in this particular instance, is not credible.
So the "right answer" is either that its a world, or universe, or that time flows in the light sphere. There's no telling what the narrative is confirming, but we can't take the term "universe" seriously here since there isn't any major evidence to support that being the case.
She also has no control over when and where she goes. It was even stated to be complete chance/miracle, so using that means nothing cause all she's doing is interdimensional travel.
Velgrynd traversed all of them-but not by her own free will; rather, she simply took the path she was guided to.
Page 64
Velgrynd achieved it, but it was an exception by a combination of coincidence and miracle.
These other worlds in question are planets that she travels to in these other dimensions.
I already gave evidence that Other worlds are in these alternate dimension in the OP, but these other worlds she goes to all have implications of being planets, not whatever you are thinking they are.
The first place she came to was a large landmass on one planet or another...
Page 61
...
In a more magic-oriented world, there was the vizier of a small kingdom.
Page 64
...
In a magic-less realm, there was a globe-trotting swindler.
Page64/65
...
In a civilized world, there was a scientist living in poverty.
Page 65
All these would refer back to this paragraph;
Indeed, a wealth of civilizations could intermix in the physical worlds contained within vast spiritual realms. They could look familiar, all magic and swordfighting, or they could be bereft of magicules and locked away from all types of spells. Civilizations could be driven by a thing called science, and some of the less common realms featured human beings transformed into machines. Some worlds were small enough that a fully unleashed True Dragon could wipe them from existence; others were wastelands, fought over constantly by angels and demons with the powers of awakened demon lords.
Page 64
So clearly, the context of "world" in these instances are referring to the planets in these alternate dimensions.
Also saying dimension = universe here, is just claiming something without evidence of that being the case. We also have to realize, world doesn't mean Universe in majority of the cases, the dimensions are called worlds sometimes too, but the term Universe is hardly ever implied or stated.
I brought that point up as secondary evidence, not primary. Considering that there is no mention of multiple universes, should add onto the defense that there is no multiverse with the primary evidence I have listed.
And what context is that? I have plenty of scans and statements of proving the opposite, and I already gave you a couple in the last point.
They came from a planet, inside a dimension, with different laws. That was already hinted and implied in volume 17 that it's the dimensions themselves or the realms that have the difference in laws.
This isn't really a defeater. This is quite an odd statement to have since "same world's universe" could equally imply that all the worlds share one universe, and that universe is what's being explained.
And I could use the same argument in my OP for the translation issue, it's an outlier at best.
I also wanted to add something as I just found this when rereading some parts;
In the subspace, there is always a phase fluctuation. It is not predictable, and if you are caught in it, it is impossible to predict what kind of other dimensional space you will be transported to.
Even the flow of time is distorted in this other world, so that even if you had 'Spatial Domination', it would not be realistic to return to the same point from where you were jumped.
Velgrynd achieved it, but it was an exception by a combination of coincidence and miracle.
It would have been better if he had been transported to another dimension where human beings inhabit, but it would not be surprising if he had been transported to the end of the universe where there is nothing, or to the middle of the great destruction before life was born.
No matter how spiritual life forms may be, survival in such a place is hopeless
Other world here obviously refers to subspace and the interesting thing about this, is jumping from subspace can cause serious issues, such as transporting yourself in a dimension where humans are or to the end of the universe.
Huh? How did you get the idea of Other Worlds being subspace????
Also by your logic, you are saying Earth(where Rimuru originally came from, is part of the Cardinal Universe)? Also Cornu also stated in v17 that there are more other world or worlds was it that can be conquered
Why would jumping from subspace, the gap between dimensions that supposedly encompass all of these alternate dimensions, put you to the end of THE universe, wouldn't it just be "a" universe? Even if that's semantical, the argument still stands because if there were multiple universe, which you claim are these dimensions, that means jumping from subspace shouldn't result in jumping to the end of a universe, but the end of a dimension or edge of dimension since dimension and universe are being implied to be different things here.
Alternate Dimensions? Are we reading the same work? Cuz I remember it being stated in the vol 17 that and I quote "There is no such thing as alternate universes, but other worlds do exist", which in these case you ARE trying to refer as a dimension
And for the thing below;
You are forgetting the point of Hypertimeline. Not only that the end of the Universe refers to being outside the axis of time(Beyond Space and Time, you should read the explanation for ts for the arguments for immeasurable speed)of the Universe, which in these case puts you outside of the Universe(aka you are inside the CW but is also Outside of the Cardinal Universe)
(https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mizuki485/Immeasurable_speed_for_Tensura)
Here is the thing about the translators that the vsbw and astral talked about.
THEY already agreed with almost if not all of the fan translations, submitted by Astral. This includes the "Universe is vast, but is not as vast as the Other Worlds"(forgot the whole sentence) cuz I was busy on other things. And another thing the UNIVERSES were argued to be Timelines itself.
What I am trying to say is, is that Timeline/Cycles=Universe which was accepted.
Anyways imma go let others deal with this. I have other things to do
Nothing here really matters or defeats the arguments. The timelines don't exist, anymore. They did at one point, but they were remade, so they now don't.
I don't if I should bring up the WN version or not. But seeing as there is no implications that these thread is only limited to LN, then I'll guess I might as well do.
If you remember in the last chapter of WN, Rimuru WENT back to past, to revive his "Past" self. Yet even after he did that he still continue'd to exist, meaning it created a branching timeline(by going to the past and making a new path or possibility)
Also, where's the disconnect here? Chronoa and Chloe being together doesn't contradict anything, since we have the Arc, and Chronoa becoming a Manas. I don't see what your comment is supposed to prove or imply here.
Are you saying Chronoa shouldn't exist? Or are you saying the timeline shouldn't at all therefore there is no tensura, since that timeline is what the series follows.
Already discussed in OP, Parallel worlds don't exist. So what's the point of bringing this up?
Also another thing to debunk you statements about timeline here. I kept it just incase I would need it
Timelines branch constantly as in MWI, however, inside a world line, if one were to perceive the entirety of a world, they would see all of em existing simultaneously
When a being travels in time, the world (likely VoTW) shifts that person to another timeline entirely to "prevent contradictions"
Because if event A happened in timeline A, event "Not A" (opposite of A) cannot happen simultaneously in that same timeline. However, if the "Not A" events caused by the time traveller didn't happen in timeline A but rather another timeline, there would be no contradictions
As in, if in timeline A, a person died, that person cannot not die simultaneously in that same timeline. If he was alive, that would contradict him dying under the same time axis (time line)
But if the person was instead alive in another timeline, that is, the time traveller prevented the death from happening in the other timeline to begin with, it would cause no contradictions
It is Astral's person perspective on how the timeline or world line works
Volume 17 actually many times specified that Velgrynd is talking about specific timeline. What would be the point if entire world would belong to only one timeline?
Then there was the United States of Azeria and its current president. His name was George Hayes, which perfectly matched that of someone she’d met before jumping into this timeline.
If all these familiar-sounding pieces of trivia belonged to the same timeline, it’d be easy to conclude that these nations and people were indeed the same as those Velgrynd knew.
Velgrynd traversed all of them—but not by her own free will; rather, she simply took the path she was guided to. They were all at differing levels of civilization (if they had any at all), and she couldn’t conjecture what dimension they were in, or what timeline.
She could produce accurate space-time coordinates for herself within a single given timeline in the dimension she existed in—but that was simply the point where she existed at that moment in time, and not even Cthugha’s Dimensional Leap ability let her make precise jumps.
That took extra targeting—but if one was leaping within the same timeline, that ceased to be an issue. In fact, Dimensional Leap even let the user travel any distance in an instant, making de facto teleportation a reality.
This is awful. She’s already pegged us as the enemy. But I don’t understand. Wasn’t she allied with Lord Feldway? …Wait. Synchronizing timelines?! His astonishing brain worked at astonishing speeds, figuring out the truth lurking within what Velgrynd had told him. Oh… She came here from another timeline. I don’t think she knows our situation, but she didn’t seem surprised by my talk of Lord Feldway and Emperor Ludora.
I agree with the removal off the 2-A rating. Chloe is just looping back in time and it's confirmed on 4 different occasions that Hinata's single universe theory is correct however, I disagree with using that to say that Tensura cannot be a multiverse. The single universe theory and parallel worlds not existing is limited to just a single universe, it doesn't mean that "other worlds" as they're called do not exist but their size is a different matter though.
To start this off, yes I'm aware of the click bait type title, but I am 100% confident in saying that and proving why, and to preface, this is my FIRST forum post, so If i need to work on some things or change things for the future, let me know and I'll fix that up! Also I don't know who to tag for this.
I also want to say that I'm unaware how much is accepted in this wiki when it comes to the cosmology of the Tensura verse, however since Veldanava still has a 2A rating, I assume the multiversal tier is still accepted for the verse.
My main contention with the verse starts at this blog, which I assume was accepted at least most of it. I only want to focus on the main parts that "prove" it's a multiverse.
The biggest problems plaguing this article is that it is grossly misleading and ignores major context of volume 11 chapter 5 of the light novel.
Time loops/cycles
Before I critique the blog/article, I want to first talk about the goal of chapter 5 in volume 11
Goal: Save Hinata and Rimuru
Chloe's time loops tended to all work out in somewhat similar fashion, although there would often be disparities here and there. Apparently, the death of Hinata was always the key event, and the same was true this time as well.
This time as well…? I die every single go-round, don't I?
…
Up to now, every time loop involved Rimuru leavıng everyone's life for one reason or another. This time, however, he was still intact when the jump happened. Hinata knew that, and therefore, she expected this to conclude in some new, different way. There were a lot of differences from before, and--as Hinata decided -maybe they'd be able to Put an end to Chloe's looping for good.
"...You know him. You can't help but hold out hope, no matter how illogical, that he'll figure something out.”
"Right? So if We can get back to that time period, Rimuru will still be there. This time, I'm sure we can all survive-and we need to figure out who keeps killing him and you!
Page 314/315
So that sets a pretty simple goal, fix the timeline, save Rimuru and Hinata.
Now that should've told people that the main reason behind the looping, and Hinata brought up the point;
Otherwise, you’d have multiple versions of yourself across multiple worlds, and everything Hinata and her friends were doing was inherently pointless. The idea that she’d find salvation in some worlds and doom in others wasn’t something Hinata was willing to accept. That’s why she wanted to end Chloe’s looping and save the world for good this time—even if meant sacrificing herself along the way.
Page 324
Now the blog claimed this was an appeal to emotion, but that doesn't really matter nor does it hold and I'll explain that in a bit, so let's dive into the main argument.
There's one main parts I want to focus on, "...but each of these pasts is a completely different timeline..."
Now, when you first look at the chapter and read it, this claim is convincing, but that completely ignores a key piece of context that was confirmed, and that is that Chloe has been looping in the same timeline/axis.
So Hinata silently listened as Chloe continued. Apparently, her time travel always took place in the same era, in the same axis of time those were likely the limitations of her skill. Exactly where she was taken depended on the timing of her out-of-control episodes.
Page 312
Now when regarding these "separate timelines" claim, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a parallel universe that exists now because of the looping, but just referring to a cycle/loop that did happen, but doesn't exist anymore.
There are statements that refer to these timelines just as the cycles or loops themselves, not as separate timelines;
I think that's sufficient. That proves that volume 11 refers to them specifically as Loops or cycles, however in volume 12, they were referred to as timelines;
We already know Chloe/Chronoa was looping in the same timeline, so the second quote is just referring to a cycle/loop. The first quote also refers to a loop, since we know rimuru's death occurred when Chloe was looping in the same axis of time;
So Hinata silently listened as Chloe continued. Apparently, her time travel always took place in the same era, in the same axis of time—those were likely the limitations of her skill. Exactly where she was taken depended on the timing of her out-of-control episodes.
In the previous cycle, Hinata apparently died in the Forest of Jura.
...
"Mr. Tempest had died, and Veldora got revived—"
"Huh? Rimuru died? Who did it and how? He’s practically unkillable."
"Um, well, with this cycle, my memories between when I received myself in the Dwelling and when I get taken to the past are working out pretty differently. In fact, this is actually the first time Rimuru was still alive when it happened to me."
Page 312
So clearly timeline just refers to these loops, so bringing up statements like this;
…!! A new possibility has arisen. If the powers of the unique skill Time Travel, when merged with the ultimate skill Yog-Sothoth, allow the subject Chloe Aubert to control time itself…then Analyze and Assess will always fail, since it cannot evaluate phenomena separate from its own time line.
Page 77
Doesn't prove the existence of a separate universe or space/time that's parallel to this in terms of being a completely different "timeline".
This is consistent when we take into consideration about what Chapter 5 in volume 11 is trying to prove.
Single World Theory
The next step is to prove that the cosmology follows Single world theory as opposed to Many world interpretation or a multiversal theory.
In the blog, this is stated;
The user most likely stated this, with no valid evidence to support that it was confirmed. If fuse is referencing these theories, then surely he'd confirm the multiverse theory being correct right? Right?
Well he does the opposite. In volume 11 chapter 5, Hinata and Chloe are brainstorming theories regarding their situation and what could or could not be true. That's why they are saying IF multiverse theory is correct then two Chloes existing doesn't cause any issues and both can be at the same time, but that's just not the case.
If advanced theories about multiverses were true, and there are parallel universes for every plane of existence, then maybe two Chloes at once would be all right—but what if there weren’t?
Page 324
So is it possible for two Chloes to exist? No;
And let's not forget what caused this whole thing;
-and the next moment, Hinata's body began to glow, the light seemingly flowing into Chloe through her fingers. Was I seeing this right? Because not even Luminus was reacting at all. It was like time was stopping...
"N-no!" chloe screamed. "This can't be happening! it's too early! Why?!"
"Uh, Chloe?"
The moment I tried calling for Chloe...she vanished, almost like she was never there at all.
Volume 11, chapter 4-page 288
So it's clear that two Chloes cannot exist in the same time. This should eliminate the multiverse theory being true, as opposed to the single world theory, right?
In fact, it's confirmed that Hinata's theory, which is;
Instead, the idea of the world being remade was more tangible.
Volume 11, chapter 5-page 324
Is correct, in fact it did so four separate occasions;
The theory was confirmed three times by a third person narrative explanation, no character pov, and second by Luminus herself, a third party perspective.
This should confirm without a shadow of a doubt, that Hinata's theory of the world being remade, as opposed to a multiverse existing, is the truth to the cosmology.
Even if you decide to bring up the fallacy in the blog;
This should be completely disputed by the fact that the theory was proven true.
Her emotion was a valid response, since the whole goal of trying to correct the timeline, would make no sense if there were parallel worlds where those cycles existed and it was true.
But here's the biggest issue-
Velgrynd's Interdimensional Journey
In volume 17, chapter 2, we get a story on Velgrynd's journey throughout the universe, depends if you take the OTL as truth, between dimensions that DO in fact exist.
Volume 16 sort of gives us a teaser about these other dimensions which house "parallel worlds";
Then, at long last, humanity was born, its fate interlocked with a parallel world in another dimension.
Page 13
Now the term "parallel worlds" is later disputed and replaced with the term, "other world";
This proves the consistency of Parallel worlds not existing in replacement of "Other worlds", so it's proven that other worlds exist in these alternate/isolated or "self-enclosed" dimensions.
The biggest problem facing my premise, is the existence of these dimensions since they were stated and implied to be disconnected temporally and spatially, which would imply they are completely separate space/times.
But that can't be, right? Volume 11 states and confirms that single world theory is the truth, so other space/times shouldn't exist right? Well, it's still not a multiverse.
The existence of separate space/times DO NOT confirm a multiverse since the entire point of the Universe level tiering systems, one has to prove the size of these space/times as universal.
The reason why I bring this up is because the tiering system specifically mentions that in order to be considered a universal level tier, you have to have a universe level sized space or space/time in order for you to qualify for said tiers. Even if the multiverse tier doesn't specify, how can you jump from one tier to the next without qualifying for the terminology of a previous tier?
If that was the case, me creating five office sized space/time continuums would be enough for low multiversal. Obviously that isn't the case, unless that somehow was changed.
So we first need to figure out the size of these space/times in order to even qualify the verse as multiversal, and the issue is, there is no confirmed size of dimensions, and this wiki already agreed to this in the TenSura LN Major Misleading Revision - Part 3 As far as I'm aware.
So in light of that, do I really need to continue? Well, I'll throw a bone to the community with this, we know at least ONE of these dimensions hold a galactic empire, which more or less confirms at least a galaxy sized space in order for that to be the case;
There was a fleet commander serving a galactic empire.
Page 64
So galaxy sized being the largest is, good I guess!
I also would like to address the use of volume 22 where Yuuki states that the light spheres were universes;
"Hmm, I've been observing it for a while and noticed something, didn't that rainbow-colored sphere
swell up and disappear there earlier? I think that's probably one world, a universe."
"Universe?"
"One world—..."
Page 208
The issue with this, is it's just guesswork.
Yuuki also hypothesized that time didn't flow in the subspace but then was later corrected by the narrative;
"It seems like even time doesn't flow in this place."
"Huh?"
"Eh?"
This is the answer to Laplace's question from earlier. Yuuki isn't sure, but there's no other way to
explain it.
...
Strictly speaking, time does flow. However, since there's no way to observe it, Yuuki guesses that
"time doesn't flow" or "it flows very slowly" based on his own fatigue level and the fact that he
doesn't get hungry. Yuuki can't interfere with the "information particles" and can't observe them.
So everything is just guesswork...
Page 208/209
So utilizing Yuuki as a credible source isn't reasonable as it was already proven that he doesn't actually know.
I also want to point out that not once in the entire series, other than mistranslations, has a statement inferred the existence of multiple universes. So I'll address those and other claims.
Addressing Contradictory Statement
The only one I know I need to address is this;
This the OTL version of the infamous slime reader translation of;
So which is correct?
The kanji used is Uchū宇宙 which can mean universe, cosmos or space.
In both translations, the kanji is translated fine, however their meanings are completely different. So when it comes to what it means, we have to figure out what it translates to using the context we already know;
There are no other universes since the verse cannot be a multiverse proven in volume 11.
We know the existence of alternate dimensions which is where Cornu and the rest of the mystics are from.
We know they were setting up outposts in space, in volume 17, chapter 2, they were targeting the earth.
Other universes were never stated in the entire series.
I lean towards the Otl being more accurate except for the use of "universe". In context, this should just be regarding the dimension that the mystics came from since that was already made known in volume 16;
Once, there was another dimension, but one of the other three had destroyed them and the dimension they came from-
Page 11
So this "universe" in volume 17 can be replaced by Dimension since we have that already confirmed to be the place where Mystics, Cryptid and even Insectors came from.
Considering what @Apotheosis69 Translated "宇宙は広いが、異界ほどではない." To = "The universe is incredibly vast, but not as vast as other worlds."
Couldn't this equally be translated to = "Space is incredibly vast, but not as vast as other worlds."?
The reason I ask this, is because those two sentences, although using the same kanji, mean vastly different things.
So now the other context comes into play.
The term "Universe" cannot be applied because, like I've already discussed and brought to question, there cannot be other universes existing due to what volume 11, chapter 5, confirms. The only terms used in the series to referred to these spaces that other worlds exist in are dimensions, not universes. Not only that, but there is never a single statement in the series, other than vol 22 from what Yuuki guessed, that implies the existence of multiple universes.
So at best this is a mistranslation by not only Slime Reader, the OTL but the vsbw translator as well, and at worst this is a outlier statement. I lean towards being a mistranslation considering the fact that the OTL uses a correct translation of the word Uchū宇宙, but also uses the word "universe" instead of dimension or "Other world" since either could be used and is backed by context.
If I missed any other statements that contradict this, let me know.
Conclusion
So simply put, the verse cannot be a multiverse considering what Volume 11, chapter 5, was written to achieve and explain. Volume 17 doesn't dispute this interpretation since it never added information that would contradict there not being other universes or prove it's a multiverse.
Following the evidence and Arguments I set forth, the Cosmology would essentially be the Subspace encompassing many dimensions that are self-enclosed or isolated/alternate. These dimensions vary in size all the way up to the size of a galaxy. They each have their own time axis or flow of time disconnected from other dimensions or space/times, and are governed by separate laws. Inside each dimension, there are unknown amount of worlds/planets, stars and celestial bodies. In the main Space/time, we have the Cardinal world, which is a planet (Yes I'm willing to discuss this but that's not the topic), where the series takes place.
So the following pages/profiles will need to be revised if this gets accepted;
It doesn't necessarily have to, inability to confirm whether or not it is a universe itself, could be seen as debunking world being a universe, or those light spheres being so. You would think any author would clarify their series if they make such an important cosmological explanation like they did in Vol11, chap5, and later on imply that it may or may have been fully true.
So if other universes exist, it calls to question the confirmation of the Single world theory, which granted was stated prior to Vol 17, but it also means a lot in the grand scheme of the verse.
Simply stating World after using the term Universe doesn't mean they accepted the word world as universe, since the entire time, we know that these spaces that velgrynd went into were considered dimensions prior to this statement happening. If the Term Universe was therefore confirmed, it should be consistent, not thrown out.
Also, how would Yuuki know it's an entire Universe? he might be a genius, but it's not like he has ever seen this before to research or to fully try out his theories, plus they go right back into calling them dimensions
From the end of an unknown different world somewhere in the gap between dimensions, the
wanderers dreamed of returning and [jumped and flew].
So, Yuuki is still a reliable speaker when talking about if something is or isn't a universe. Also, we should be taking it serious here as Fuse gives us a direct statement that Worlds=Universes and Yuuki (Verifiable Genius who researches the nature of worlds from their laws down to their structure of being spiritual or not) gives an educated guess while observing them seeing their properties as well as noting the nature of time in a void while not having the means to manipulate information is backed up by the narrator. Especially with the context of it being a place beyond the space-times of the worlds.
What property does a light-sphere have in order to come to the conclusion, "Yep, that's a universe". That's simply a hasty generalization which also goes back on things confirmed in prior volumes. If it is a Universe, why not keep it consistent or even better, make this known in prior novels?
I understand the everyone likes to say Fuse just throws around the term world over universe and rarely uses the term universe, but what if that was on purpose? Since these light-spheres are talking about the alternate dimensions velgrynd traveled to in volume 17, so we know that they are the dimensions in question, to state they are universes near the end of the light novel series without even keeping it consistent in the same volume, is a bit of a reach.
She is traveling to different worlds by (Going beyond space and time --> through subspace ----> Into an another world). Also they are all translation issues the word that normally is used in tensura for is ''planet''. It is nowhere in the RAWs except for a single place. in slime reader it was used twice.
The are implied planets, a kingdom in outer space? or spread across a universe? That's going to be your stance? The kingdom is most likely on, a planet.
Same with the scientist in poverty, you think he is just floating in space or spread around a universe? Why cant he be in a city, on a planet.
Same with the "Globe trotting" Swindler, I don't even need to explain.
The context implies that she visits planets inside these alternate dimensions, she isn't going space traveling, she teleports right into the planet where she needs to be;
It was called the Empire. In the Emperor’s room, Velgrynd appears from time and space. She is dressed in a silk robe. It’s a deep blue color that suits her very well. Velgryndwas noticed by the old emperor, the owner of the room.
-Slime reader
So it's clear she isn't traversing a universe but jumping into these planets directly, so when it says
Velgrynd had a series of encounters and goodbyes. Through it all, Velgryndcame to understand that there is no single world that Veldanava has created. He created many worlds. There was one world, and there were no parallel worlds. But there were other worlds.
-Slime Reader
Also, first place she came to was a ''large landmass'' (landmass doesn't even appear in the raws and other synonyms only appear in chapter 1 and 5) doesn't really mean anything
''In a Magic-Oriented World, there was a kingdom'' means ''in a Magic-Oriented Universe, there was a kingdom'' so that is still not sufficient to say that it is a planet.
Yes, They are HEAVILY implied to be universes even without Yuuki directly telling Mai and Laplace. To get to a different one, you have to go beyond time and space to subspace and then to the world that you know the coordinates of. They have dimensional walls, they have different laws and different causality, separate timelines and expanding space. That is almost textbook, implications of universes. And as shown earlier, Dimensions are synonymous with ''Other Worlds''.
And, everything that shows that it is a universe isn't an outlier is called world building. ''Even in the same world's universe, space continued to expand at a speed faster than light.'' for example, why would Mai say same world's universe if she meant a single universe? Same by definition means there is at least another thing to compare it to.
And where is that translation from?
Well if Single world theory is accepted as truth, the yes it is if it isn't proven to be explained that those are in fact other universes.
Also, "Same world's Universe" like I said, doesn't necessitate there are multiple universes, and this doesn't cause what "world" is being referenced?
I want to dedicate an enitre reply to the use of the term 宇宙 as it relates to the series, so ill be heading to the translation Thread for that and bounce back over here.
And finally, Also, even if the multiverse theory goes. The Anti Magic mask that went through Countless/Infinite cycles and had and should have an equal amount of ''Time Compression/Thickness'' shows that they still have an effect even if those timelines or loops were erased or changed and considering that the Great Spirit of Time governs time in ''All Possible/Conceivable Worlds''.
Also, the reason why we don't use OTL is because of how much YenPress gives their own ''creative liberties''. A.k.a Complex Number of Spatial Dimensions for Infinity Prison when it should be infinite sized space, Faster than Light pre-ifrit Rimuru, Treyni's invisible blade having wind attribute which can somehow slash dimensions when it should be spatial attribute and all of this: https://tensura.fandom.com/wiki/Mistranslations
I have my own issue with the translation, but also Infinite Prison being infinite sized space seems a bit of a reach. If we say its infinite but also takes up a finite space in a 3D world, then wouldn't that be a contradiction?
Also another thing to debunk you statements about timeline here. I kept it just incase I would need it
Timelines branch constantly as in MWI, however, inside a world line, if one were to perceive the entirety of a world, they would see all of em existing simultaneously
When a being travels in time, the world (likely VoTW) shifts that person to another timeline entirely to "prevent contradictions"
Because if event A happened in timeline A, event "Not A" (opposite of A) cannot happen simultaneously in that same timeline. However, if the "Not A" events caused by the time traveller didn't happen in timeline A but rather another timeline, there would be no contradictions
As in, if in timeline A, a person died, that person cannot not die simultaneously in that same timeline. If he was alive, that would contradict him dying under the same time axis (time line)
But if the person was instead alive in another timeline, that is, the time traveller prevented the death from happening in the other timeline to begin with, it would cause no contradictions
It is Astral's person perspective on how the timeline or world line works
This wouldnt prove true if there are no parallel worlds where these timelines can exist, which still is undisputed when regarding my Volume 11 arguments.
The OP is looking reasonable to me. The fact that it's directly/verbatim stated that parallel worlds dont exist + the "other worlds" apparently being already accepted as not being universe-sized is pretty damning. The end of subspace being the end of "the" universe seems to further reinforce this. So for now I agree with the OP.
