Tensura is NOT a multiverse! (Tensura cosmology downgrade)

[CodeCCLL]

Well don't know if it's accurate since I used GPT for rough calculation. Technically I used wank here since nothing exceeds SOL still put SOL as baseline speed. Someone should check with CGM.

If the result of this calculation was a value higher than the observable universe, you would say things like "conquering a universe doesn't mean traveling all universe, it is enough to travel wherever there is life" also "gates can open to different points in the universe" , etc. But when it comes to downgrade, you don't hesitate to use vague expressions, great keep it up.

 

[Robo432343]

Elde if this was maou gakuin you wouldn't have said the same thing

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

so I can see that shade is being thrown now.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Elde if this was maou gakuin you wouldn't have said the same thing

Adding to the fire is more than a hobby I see

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Universes expand faster than the speed of light

Even in the same world's universe, space continued to expand at a speed faster than light.
The correlation between space and time was beyond Mai's understanding. Furthermore, the probability of being able to arrive at the time and place where her beloved brother was alive was infinitesimal.

Experience heat death

But in reality, I didn't know where I was. Even if I was told that this enormous colorless space was called "The End of Space-Time", it still wouldn't make any sense to me. Here, time didn't flow. And yet, unlike the "Suspended World", I couldn't perceive the expansion of space even if I was manipulating "Information Particles".
"Yes. Here, even the flow of time is halted. The expansion of space has stopped, and it has become nothingness, in accordance with the law of entropy."

Has a separate Time Line

Apperantly his name was George Hayes, and he was the same person I had come in contact with before I jumped into this space-time. If Velgrind's memory serves correctly, his father was a possessor of a fragment of Rudra's "soul." His name was Laurent Hayes, and they were together from their youth to until their death/passing. There are many other points of interest, but these matters need to be thoroughly investigated. If on the same world line, undoubtedly, it can be concluded that it is the same nation and the same individual, but because in alternate-dimensional world, also called Another World, there are similar world/worlds. Because there are clear differences in the world's structure and laws, it is determined not to be a parallel world. However, for some reason, things like names were occasionally similar. Since the possibility of coincidence could not be ruled out this time either, Velgrind resolved to investigate the history.

Parallel worlds don't exist but ''other worlds'' do.

Velgrynd repeats many encounters and partings. Wherein/Meanwhile, Velgrynd came to understand the fact that the world Veldanava created is not just one. Surely, there existed numerous of worlds. There is only one identical world, and parallel worlds such as 'Parallel World' do not exist. However, Another/other-dimensional worlds, Another world, do exist. Velgrynd was aware of the fact that people from another world existed. However, she had never even imagined that such a variety of worlds could exist to this extent.. Operating under entirely different laws, with no circulation of cause and effect. As material worlds contained within a great spiritual world, a variety of civilizations were intermixed. From familiar worlds where swords and magic were mainstream, to worlds where magic could not be used because they were almost without magical energy. There were also rare worlds where something like scientific civilizations developed, and humanity was mechanized. There were weak worlds that could be blown away if a dragon species unleashed its full power, and devastated worlds where angels and demons rivaling awakened demon lords constantly fought.

Parallel in this meaning in a row rather than happening at the same time. Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-7013245

And finally, as if connected to a parallel universe in a different dimension, humanity is born.

That is precisely because of this understanding that Ramiris stands on the opposing position. Even so, she understands Dino and the others' feelings, which is why she doesn't do anything to stop them. From the shelter that connects to the otherworld, the abandoned 30th floor section could be seen. If left unattended, it would eventually be swallowed by the otherworld and thrown away. In subspace, phase fluctuations are always occurring. These are not something that can be predicted, and if you get caught up in them, it is impossible to predict to which alternate dimension space you might be sent. Since it is an otherworld where even the flow of time is distorted, even with 'Space Control,' returning to the same location from where one was thrown is not realistic. Velgrynd accomplished this, but that was an exception, a combination of coincidence and miracle. As for where one would be sent, it would be better if it were an alternate dimension world inhabited by humans, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it were the empty void of space, or in the midst of the great destruction before life’s birth. No matter how much of a spiritual life form one is, survival in such a place would be hopeless. Knowing this, Ramiris gives her a serious advice

Separated by Dimensional Walls/Barriers (needs translation)

Mai wanted to see her beloved brother, but it was impossible for her to cross the dimensional barrier. She had given up even before the fight, saying that escape was impossible.

愛する弟に会いたいのに、次元の壁を超えるなど不可能だったのだから。
逃げるなんて無理よ── と、マイは戦う前から諦めていたのだ。

In theory, it was not impossible. However, it was impossible for Mai. Crossing the dimensional barrier required an enormous amount of energy and complex operations involving a huge amount of 'positional information on time and space.' This was precisely why Mai's safety was ensured, despite her current situation.

理論上、決して不可能ではない。ただし、マイでは無理だった。
その理由は、次元の壁を越えるには、膨大なエネルギーを必要とするからだ。
そしてそれ以上に、複雑怪奇な演算が必須となり、膨大な量の『時間と空間に関する位置情
報』を必要とするのである。
それこそ今の状況を見ても、マイの絶望が理解出来るというもので…… しかし逆に、それが故
にマイの安全は保障されていたのである。

Even if the time axis, positional coordinates, and other information of the target point were known, if there was a dimensional wall separating them, Mai could not overcome it with her power. This was why Mai gave up the idea of returning to the original world. In some cases, the wall could be overcome if the dimensions were adjacent to each other. However, since the height of the wall varied from dimension to dimension, there were cases where it was impossible no matter how hard one tried. The only way out was to search for the "Underworld Gate" and repeat the dimensional search.

また、目標地点の時間軸、位置座標、その他の情報が判明していたとしても、そこを隔てるよ
うに次元の壁があれば、マイの力では越えられないのである。
これが、マイが元の世界への帰還を諦めた理由であった。
隣接する次元であれば、壁を越えられる場合もある。
しかし、次元によっては壁の高さもマチマチなので、どうあっても不可能な場合があった。そ
れこそ〝冥界門〟を探すなりして、コツコツと次元探索を繰り返すしか手はないのである。

Encompassed by a larger structure (the place where Yuuki and Mai saw the universe/world expand then disappear.)

It was probably the space between dimensions called subspace. She had lost the coordinates of her position due to her disorderly jump from Ramiris' labyrinth. The 'automatic adjustment of the viable space' by Mai's authority had kept her alive, though she was unaware of this. Grateful for her good fortune, she also found herself craving cake for some reason.

古城舞衣
( マイ・フルキ)
は、全力で跳んだ先のどことも知れぬ空間に漂っていた。
恐らくは、亜空間と称される次元の狭間だ。
ラミリスの迷宮から無秩序に跳んだから、位置座標を見失ってしまったのである。
生きているだけでも儲けものだが、これはマイの権能によって『生存可能な空間を自動調整』
された結果であった。
そうとは知らぬまま、マイは自分の幸運に感謝した。
それと同時に、何故か無性にケーキが食べたくなっていた。

From the end of an unknown different world somewhere in the gap between dimensions, the wanderers dreamed of returning and [jumped and flew].

次元の狭間の何処とも知れぬ異界の果てから、放浪者達は帰還を夢見て『跳躍飛翔』したのだった。

Mai gave up, realizing that she couldn't deceive him. She changed her mind and looked around totry to assess the situation. What she was able to understand was that Mai and the others were still drifting in the gap between dimensions. Thanks to Yuuki's mysterious "barrier", "magic perception" was activated even in the other world. They say that what lies ahead is darkness, but outside the "barrier" was truly an unknown world. A shining rainbow could be seen in the distance, but it was impossible to see what was happening over there.

理解出来たのは、マイ達は次元の狭間に漂っているままだということ。
ユウキが謎の『結界』を張っているお陰で、異界でも『魔力感知』が発動していたのだ。
一寸先は闇というが、本当に『結界』の外は未知の世界だった。
遠くで光り輝く虹が視えたりするが、そこに至るまでに何があるのかまったく視えないのであ
る。

Always controlling his skill and syncing his and Laplace's powers with Mai's is easy to say, but it's difficult to put into practice. Yuuki cannot decide to do it because this method does not allow any leeway. In a place like the gap between dimensions, lost energy never recovers. Therefore, there is only one chance. It was only natural that the confident Yuuki would be a little cautious. It was at that moment—

常に権能を制御しながら、自分とラプラスの力をマイに同調させる──口で言うのは簡単だが、実行するとなると難易度は高い。ユウキが決断に踏み切れないのも、この方法には失敗が許されないからだ。次元の狭間のような場所では、失ったエネルギーは二度と回復しない。故に、一度しかチャンスがないのである。自信家のユウキなのに、少しばかり慎重になってしまうのも無理もなかった。その時だった。

Directly called a timeline/space-time (translation needed)

"What happened on that time axis is not exactly known. By the time Ciel-san was thrown, everything had already ended. Even how Ivarage became or moved is unclear, but what is certain is that the world did not perish. I am not sure if that was according to Feldway's wish, but I don't care about it.

"── After that, as if drifting through a universe where not even the stars twinkled, I wandered, witnessing the end of this world.""

If they obtained a "yorishiro" and incarnated, they thought it was possible for them to conquer all of space-time in thousands to tens of thousands of years.

<<Yes, I have seen it. In Feldway's "Chrono-Saltation," we were transported to the far reaches of space-time. There, the life of the stars have long since expired, but the world had not yet collapsed. I assume that Feldway's power was limited to destroying the Cardinal World universe.>>

《その通りです。フェルドウェイの〝時空跳激震覇
( クロノサルテーション)
〟で、我々は時空の彼方へと跳ばされまし
た。そこでは星の寿命はとっくに尽きておりましたが、世界の崩壊へは至っていませんでした。
フェルドウェイの力では、基軸世界の宇宙を滅ぼすだけで限界だったのだと推測されます》

Direct statement of worlds being universes as well as those worlds behaving like what has been mentioned above.

"Hmm, I've been observing it for a while and noticed something, didn't that rainbow-colored spheres well up and disappear there earlier? I think that's probably one world, a universe." "Universe?" "One world—...""In that sphere, time is flowing. It seems that a time flow occurs around it due to the after effects, but I can't observe it..." Strictly speaking, time does flow. However, since there's no way to observe it, Yuuki guesses that "time doesn't flow" or "it flows very slowly" based on his own fatigue level and the fact that he doesn't get hungry. Yuuki can't interfere with the "information particles" and can't observe them. So everything is just guesswork, but he fully demonstrated his genius and came up with the right answer. But that doesn't mean anything since there's no way to return..."Then, is one of those rainbow-colored light spheres the world we were in?""I don't think so. I think that's a derived world. From the generation to the end of the light sphere varies."Considering the amount of energy that can be observed, it was thought that the light sphere that can be observed here is a place unrelated to the world where Yuuki and the others were in. Mai agreed with Yuuki's opinion.

『うーん、ずっと観察していて気付いたんだけどさ、さっきそこで虹色の球が膨らんで消えただ
ろ？ アレって多分、一つの世界、宇宙だと思うんだ』
『宇宙ぅ？』
『一つの世界──って……』
『あの球の中では、時間が流れている。その余波で周辺にも時間流が発生するっぽいけど、それ
を観測出来ないんだよね……』
厳密に言えば、時間は流れてはいた。ただし、それを観測する術がないので、ユウキは自分の疲
労度や空腹にならないという状況などから判断して、『時間は流れていない』もしくは『かなりゆ
ったりと流れている』のではないかと推測していたのだった。
ユウキは〝情報子〟に干渉出来ないし、それを観測する事も不可能だ。だから全ては推測になる
のだが、その天才性を遺憾なく発揮して、正解を導き出していたのだ。
だからと言って、帰還する手立てがないので意味はないのだが……。
『それじゃあ、あの虹色の光球のどれかが、私達がいた世界なの？』
『違うと思うぜ。アレは派生世界なんだと思う。光球の発生から終焉まで、全てマチマチだし
ね』
観測出来るエネルギー量から考えても、ここで観測可能な光球はユウキ達がいた世界とは無縁の
場所だろうと思われた。
ユウキのその意見に、マイも同意する。

''Many'' Worlds that Veldanava created

Velgrynd repeats many encounters and partings. Wherein/Meanwhi Velgrynd came to understand the fact that the world Veldanava created is not just one. Surely, there existed numerous of worlds. There is only one identical world, and parallel worlds such as 'Parallel World' do not exist. However, Another/other-dimensional worlds, Another world, do exist. Velgrynd was aware of the fact that people from another world existed. However, she had never even imagined that such a variety of worlds could exist to this extent.. Operating under entirely different laws, with no circulation of cause and effect. As material worlds contained within a great spiritual world, a variety of civilizations were intermixed. From familiar worlds where swords and magic were mainstream, to worlds where magic could not be used because they were almost without magical energy. There were also rare worlds where something like scientific civilizations developed, and humanity was mechanized. There were weak worlds that could be blown away if a dragon species unleashed its full power, and devastated worlds where angels and demons rivaling awakened demon lords constantly fought.

Transcend ''Time and Space'' to reach these other worlds.




Wiki's rules on universes.

• These are notes that the worlds are indeed universes; while they don't need all of these, at least one of them should indicate this.
  • If they are outright called universes or stated to be the size of universes by a reliable source, they should be considered universes.
  • If the size of the realms described has having infinite sizes or other synonyms, that should strongly indicate them being universes.
  • If they are outright stated to be completely separated by the barriers of time and space and either stated or shown to be reasonable in size, such as having countless galaxies, then they should indeed be universes.
  • If they're flat out stated to be entire timelines, then they are indeed alternate universes.
  • Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.
  • If they're stated to mirror "The Universe" or "Our Universe" or "The Real World", they would refer to being universes.
  • If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Separation of these universes.

1. A larger space encompasses all the universes or space-times
2. This space is of a higher dimensional nature.

Space-Time Qualifications

1. It is explicitly stated to be a "Space-time continuum" or something equivalent.
2. It fulfills the standards for being a universe-sized realm (see the first section of this page) and all of its time is also involved in its feat. I.e. the structure involved in the feat is the timeline of an entire universe.

Need to sleep so I won't be able respond to the thread. There is more stuff but Ill do that when I'm awake. And if we are not sure on the size of them despite all of these characteristics put a likely or possibly option seeing as there is more than enough evidence to suggest that there is more than one universe and those other worlds being those universes.

And actually finally, if the yuuki quote is an ''outlier'' is a hot topic remember that it was included in the latest volume as a wrap up towards the ''alleged'' final volume of tensura.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If the result of this calculation was a value higher than the observable universe, you would say things like "conquering a universe doesn't mean traveling all universe, it is enough to travel wherever there is life" also "gates can open to different points in the universe" , etc. But when it comes to downgrade, you don't hesitate to use vague expressions, great keep it up.

You yourself let mistranslations pass and supported the verse being upgraded to Low 1-C using Mizuki's translations, where "extra-dimensional space" was mentioned. You could have cross-checked it and stopped it, but you didn't. So can I say that you also accept things that are convenient for you without verifying them? I'm just pointing this out because it feels like whatever I do is always framed as being convenient for me, when that's not the case.

It's also funny how you singled me out, even though the OP also mentioned how the time required to conquer could backfire on supporters' arguments. Really?

I know you might come back with an excuse for the Low 1-C upgrade mistake, but whatever. I'm not you, and I'm not going to keep pestering about things that aren’t even relevant to this thread. You're free to discuss whatever’s on-topic, but stop antagonizing me personally.

Even when I said to check with a CGM, it's not like I was pushing the calculations myself.

---

As for the two actual points you mentioned:

1. How do they know exactly where a lifeform is when entering a new dimension and estimate how many years it would take?

2. The second point is tied to the first—because even if the gates can open at different points, shouldn't they still need to know the location of the civilization within those dimensions?

Elde if this was maou gakuin you wouldn't have said the same thing

This isn’t even about Maou. People like you just start stirring things up where there’s no need and end up creating conflict between two different franchises. If you really want to, go downgrade Maou yourself.

 

[Amalyris]

This wouldnt prove true if there are no parallel worlds where these timelines can exist, which still is undisputed when regarding my Volume 11 arguments.

How does parallel world have anything to do with timelines not being able to exist, using the argument of them being the World Line you can figure that out. You left alot out of context

Timelines exist inside the World. The Cardinal Universes/Timelines are inside the CW.

Using the context "No parallel world exist" you can use your own brain to create an explanation on why it is.

This wouldnt prove true if there are no parallel worlds where these timelines can exist,

By that you can come up with the timelines being confined in the World(they are their own set), and each of said world have their own timelines

 

[Amalyris]

Upgrade them to 4-B and then make them stay that way forever got to make some matches with Fate with speed being unequalized

Seriously

 

[CodeCCLL]

You yourself let mistranslations pass and supported the verse being upgraded to Low 1-C using Mizuki's translations, where "extra-dimensional space" was mentioned. You could have cross-checked it and stopped it, but you didn't. So can I say that you also accept things that are convenient for you without verifying them? I'm just pointing this out because it feels like whatever I do is always framed as being convenient for me, when that's not the case.

I have no connection with Japanese, and until then I had never felt the need to look at any Japanese verse raws. I even learned much later that there was a thread called translation requests. Despite this, I objected to the translations many times, and in the Low 1-C thread I said many times that the translations needed to be checked, and I had some of them checked.

I'm sure you could have answered me some other way, but you didn't.

It's also funny how you singled me out, even though the OP also mentioned how the time required to conquer could backfire on supporters' arguments. Really?

Could it be because I take you more seriously than the OP?

I know you might come back with an excuse for the Low 1-C upgrade mistake, but whatever. I'm not you, and I'm not going to keep pestering about things that aren’t even relevant to this thread. You're free to discuss whatever’s on-topic, but stop antagonizing me personally

If you really think I'm going to try to do that, I don't have much to say. You just need to stop saying things out of instant hatred.

As for the two actual points you mentioned:

1. How do they know exactly where a lifeform is when entering a new dimension and estimate how many years it would take?

So you think they can perceive the size of the entire dimension, but you don't think they can feel the magicules that living things have?

2. The second point is tied to the first—because even if the gates can open at different points, shouldn't they still need to know the location of the civilization within those dimens
ions?

It can happen in many ways, I don't think I need to give examples of how aliens from the other side of the universe detect humanity/intelligent life in science fiction movies.

The important thing is that an idea cannot be produced based on such a vague statement. For example, if we knew the real size of the world and calculated a speed based on the time it took to conquer it, it would never be accepted.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So you think they can perceive the size of the entire dimension, but you don't think they can feel the magicules that living things have?

I mean, which characters in the series have shown this feat? I know Ciel was able to do it in Volume 22—I'm assuming this, since Rimuru was shocked about the skill being able to scan the whole world—but am I missing any other characters who are capable of doing this?

It can happen in many ways, I don't think I need to give examples of how aliens from the other side of the universe detect humanity/intelligent life in science fiction movies.

Yeah but you know time frame could have been like countless years not just tens of thousands.

The important thing is that an idea cannot be produced based on such a vague statement. For example, if we knew the real size of the world and calculated a speed based on the time it took to conquer it, it would never be accepted.

I'm speaking in case we consider that world more as a dimension rather than a universe, like the OP claimed and as Viet mentioned. I'm not entirely sure either—that's why I said someone should ask CGM. If it's too vague to calculate, just ignore what I said.

Again, if it's too vague to calculate, I'll just drop the feat.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Universes expand faster than the speed of light

Experience heat death

Has a separate Time Line

Parallel worlds don't exist but ''other worlds'' do.

Parallel in this meaning in a row rather than happening at the same time. Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-7013245


Separated by Dimensional Walls/Barriers (needs translation)










Encompassed by a larger structure (the place where Yuuki and Mai saw the universe/world expand then disappear.)









Directly called a timeline/space-time (translation needed)






Direct statement of worlds being universes as well as those worlds behaving like what has been mentioned above.



''Many'' Worlds that Veldanava created


Transcend ''Time and Space'' to reach these other worlds.




Wiki's rules on universes.

• These are notes that the worlds are indeed universes; while they don't need all of these, at least one of them should indicate this.
  • If they are outright called universes or stated to be the size of universes by a reliable source, they should be considered universes.
  • If the size of the realms described has having infinite sizes or other synonyms, that should strongly indicate them being universes.
  • If they are outright stated to be completely separated by the barriers of time and space and either stated or shown to be reasonable in size, such as having countless galaxies, then they should indeed be universes.
  • If they're flat out stated to be entire timelines, then they are indeed alternate universes.
  • Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.
  • If they're stated to mirror "The Universe" or "Our Universe" or "The Real World", they would refer to being universes.
  • If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Separation of these universes.

1. A larger space encompasses all the universes or space-times
2. This space is of a higher dimensional nature.

Space-Time Qualifications

1. It is explicitly stated to be a "Space-time continuum" or something equivalent.
2. It fulfills the standards for being a universe-sized realm (see the first section of this page) and all of its time is also involved in its feat. I.e. the structure involved in the feat is the timeline of an entire universe.

Need to sleep so I won't be able respond to the thread. There is more stuff but Ill do that when I'm awake. And if we are not sure on the size of them despite all of these characteristics put a likely or possibly option seeing as there is more than enough evidence to suggest that there is more than one universe and those other worlds being those universes.

And actually finally, if the yuuki quote is an ''outlier'' is a hot topic remember that it was included in the latest volume as a wrap up towards the ''alleged'' final volume of tensura.

I think this is a very Mute point, considering the biggest flaw in accepting these spaces as universes, is that we explicitly have reason to believe they are not consistently the size of an observable universe.

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently estimated to be 93 billion light-years in diameter.

The size of these spaces must be able to reach the size of 93 billion light-years wide, which I have yet to see anyone prove the sizes of these spaces reach that size.

So it's great you have all this supporting evidence, but when the point of contention is the size, which I feel isn't even needing to be discussed since it was already accepted that there's no confirmed size, then focus on trying to prove size. And if these Dimensions are called universes, but all greatly vary in size and would still be called Universes, then size isn't a defining factor in TenSura to qualify to be called such.

At the end of the day, you can give out any supporting evidence for space/times and them being "Universes" but if you can't definitively prove their size, then every piece of evidence brought forward, is just unusable. So until we get a genuine confirmation that the dimensions are the size of the universe, there should be nothing that proves these are the size of our universe, therefor the Verse can't qualify as a multiverse under that understanding.

But hey, Maybe volume 23 changes thing, it was already put into question in vol22 about the light spheres, maybe there's a chance that the spaces can be confirmed or proven to be the size of our universe.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

If you really think I'm going to try to do that, I don't have much to say. You just need to stop saying things out of instant hatred.

And you said what you did like you were pointing a finger or two??? Was that supposed to be sarcasm or some joke?? You speak about 'instant hatred' yet you sure went for the jugular there

Did you -not- realize or think about how that could be interpreted? The heck were you so aggravated for

 

[TheHyperGuy]

How does parallel world have anything to do with timelines not being able to exist, using the argument of them being the World Line you can figure that out. You left alot out of context

I think you aren't understanding what's been said, I even concluded there are other timelines, just not parallel, or that these spaces are separate space/times.

Conclusion​

So simply put, the verse cannot be a multiverse considering what Volume 11, chapter 5, was written to achieve and explain. Volume 17 doesn't dispute this interpretation since it never added information that would contradict there not being other universes or prove it's a multiverse.

Following the evidence and Arguments I set forth, the Cosmology would essentially be the Subspace encompassing many dimensions that are self-enclosed or isolated/alternate. These dimensions vary in size all the way up to the size of a galaxy. They each have their own time axis or flow of time disconnected from other dimensions or space/times, and are governed by separate laws. Inside each dimension, there are unknown amount of worlds/planets, stars and celestial bodies. In the main Space/time, we have the Cardinal world, which is a planet (Yes I'm willing to discuss this but that's not the topic), where the series takes place.

Timelines exist inside the World. The Cardinal Universes/Timelines are inside the CW.

This is just a weird point, Cardinal world is in reference to the planet, I did note that in my original post, but if you want to discuss this now sure.

I have plenty of evidence to support this claim.

But don't worry, I know people hate the OTL, so here's

Spoiler: Slime Reader

“If it’s just you and the two of them, I can send you all back. However, the Cardinal World will be rough. I hate the people on Earth. Not that I need the death of every living thing to achieve my goal, but it will inevitably be engulfed in flames in a war with those who stand in our way. But that is the punishment. Those whom Veldanava-sama loved have betrayed that love. Sanctions will be necessary.”
...
On command, Mai stood up and projected a three-dimensional image of the entire Cardinal World at the center of the round table.
It was a miniature figure of the earth(Verbatim stating Cardinal world = Earth or THE PLANET).
From a god’s perspective, the stronghold of the demon lords was shown.
“These are the strongholds of the Octagram who are opposing us, and their key points. There are six of them.”
The north pole of Guy, the western edge of Dagruel, the central west of Luminas, the forest of Rimuru, the southeast of Milim, and the continent of Leon.

The whole purpose was to invade the Cardinal world, which they note being the planet they want to conquer.

So let's stop saying Cardinal world houses these timelines or universe arguments.

By that you can come up with the timelines being confined in the World(they are their own set), and each of said world have their own timelines

Which I agreed to, I never denounced that being the case.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I mean, which characters in the series have shown this feat? I know Ciel was able to do it in Volume 22—I'm assuming this, since Rimuru was shocked about the skill being able to scan the whole world—but am I missing any other characters who are capable of doing this?

You had ChatGBT calculate the distance that needed to be covered based on the time, but in that case the time in question can be used if we assume that the estimate of the distance is correct. So they would have to be able to perceive the size of the world in question in order to have an idea of the distance. In that case, you're the one who claims that they can perceive the size of the world.

I would argue that safer option is that the distance in question is just the distance that needs to be covered to invade civilizations. Do you understand now?

Yeah but you know time frame could have been like countless years not just tens of thousands.

So how does this help your case?

And you said what you did like you were pointing a finger or two??? Was that supposed to be sarcasm or some joke?? You speak about 'instant hatred' yet you sure went for the jugular there

Did you -not- realize or think about how that could be interpreted? The heck were you so aggravated for

Eldemade is not one of those people I wouldn't even want to communicate with. If he doesn't want me to talk to him like that, he shouldn't talk to me like that either. If he tells me sincerely which of my attitudes bothers him, I will tell him which of his attitudes bothers me. In the end, we get along or we don't, it doesn't matter.

Don't get involved.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Don't get involved.

There's ignorantly getting involved and then there's blatantly seeing something wrong for one to do so, this is NOT that first one cause I can obviously see and have known that for a good bit. 'Don't get involved', like huh???

You shot first in saying that less I'm missing something on the previous pages or it's some unrelated bit?? I'm saying what I am cause I'm trying to be REASONABLE here, not to get on your case or bad side just for the sake of it, rather not to that. But I'm gonna end that there cause I rather not derail further, too.

Either way, cause I haven't voiced my opinion in a bit aside from my confusion on the parallel worlds thing, is that my view for what's been said in the thread up to now is that there's been good things brought up on both fronts (from hydra and lycoris, as well as hyper's, but leaning towards the former for the multiverse). So I've consider me staying neutral till something tips the scales or catches me.

Edit: Actually, has there been close to an opinion on either side about the cycles yet, or that still at an impasse?

 

[Caduz213]

Universes expand faster than the speed of light

Experience heat death

Has a separate Time Line

Parallel worlds don't exist but ''other worlds'' do.

Parallel in this meaning in a row rather than happening at the same time. Source: https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-7013245


Separated by Dimensional Walls/Barriers (needs translation)










Encompassed by a larger structure (the place where Yuuki and Mai saw the universe/world expand then disappear.)









Directly called a timeline/space-time (translation needed)






Direct statement of worlds being universes as well as those worlds behaving like what has been mentioned above.



''Many'' Worlds that Veldanava created


Transcend ''Time and Space'' to reach these other worlds.




Wiki's rules on universes.

• These are notes that the worlds are indeed universes; while they don't need all of these, at least one of them should indicate this.
  • If they are outright called universes or stated to be the size of universes by a reliable source, they should be considered universes.
  • If the size of the realms described has having infinite sizes or other synonyms, that should strongly indicate them being universes.
  • If they are outright stated to be completely separated by the barriers of time and space and either stated or shown to be reasonable in size, such as having countless galaxies, then they should indeed be universes.
  • If they're flat out stated to be entire timelines, then they are indeed alternate universes.
  • Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.
  • If they're stated to mirror "The Universe" or "Our Universe" or "The Real World", they would refer to being universes.
  • If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Separation of these universes.

1. A larger space encompasses all the universes or space-times
2. This space is of a higher dimensional nature.

Space-Time Qualifications

1. It is explicitly stated to be a "Space-time continuum" or something equivalent.
2. It fulfills the standards for being a universe-sized realm (see the first section of this page) and all of its time is also involved in its feat. I.e. the structure involved in the feat is the timeline of an entire universe.

Need to sleep so I won't be able respond to the thread. There is more stuff but Ill do that when I'm awake. And if we are not sure on the size of them despite all of these characteristics put a likely or possibly option seeing as there is more than enough evidence to suggest that there is more than one universe and those other worlds being those universes.

And actually finally, if the yuuki quote is an ''outlier'' is a hot topic remember that it was included in the latest volume as a wrap up towards the ''alleged'' final volume of tensura.

I'm a layman in Tensura but reading PrimeHydra comment I have to agree with him

I disagree about it not being a multiverse

 

[Vietthai96]

Elde if this was maou gakuin you wouldn't have said the same thing

Robo seriously?, you made unnecessary and bad comment. No hate for you one more comment like this then i have to ask mod to block you from participating in the thread

Anyway

Directly called a timeline/space-time, etc...

These statements isn't matter, from what i know, the OP didn't diregard that there are multiple space-times. The problem is the size of these space-times, in order for them to be Low 2-C individually

 

[Shiraito983]

Ah, yes, another tensura is a countless parallel planet thread. i disagree

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Ah, yes, another tensura is a countless parallel planet thread. i disagree

I literally don't even think parallel planet was in the debacle at all less I'm reading the intent wrong.

 

[3Pencil]

Ah
Another "nuke the verse cuz I don't like it" thread
Anyways I agree with prime, its clear a different space or larger space contains the universes/dimensions and from the way this thread is, it's clear it's biased and thinks theory>actual feat or statement

And the fact OP only brings statement from vol11 or 12 is something, so we just gonna ignore otherworlds, worlds larger than universe, different timelines and many worlds created by veldanava

 

[Caduz213]

Ah
Another "nuke the verse cuz I don't like it" thread
Anyways I agree with prime, its clear a different space or larger space contains the universes/dimensions and from the way this thread is, it's clear it's biased and thinks theory>actual feat or statement

And the fact OP only brings statement from vol11 or 12 is something, so we just gonna ignore otherworlds, worlds larger than universe, different timelines and many worlds created by veldanava

This guy must be the equivalent of Pein with Maou Gakuin. They only exist to destroy the verse they don't like

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Are ya'll doubling down in believing the absolute worst sides of a thought process that much-?

 

[Dog3352]

Honestly, I agree more with the opposition here. Although it has already been accepted that a CRT that worlds/dimensions have variable sizes, I believe there is still more than enough evidence for the existence of several Low 2-C worlds.
I believe the most that should be downgraded is the level from 2-A to 2-B.

 

[MeiouHades]

Ah
Another "nuke the verse cuz I don't like it" thread
Anyways I agree with prime, its clear a different space or larger space contains the universes/dimensions and from the way this thread is, it's clear it's biased and thinks theory>actual feat or statement

And the fact OP only brings statement from vol11 or 12 is something, so we just gonna ignore otherworlds, worlds larger than universe, different timelines and many worlds created by veldanava

This guy must be the equivalent of Pein with Maou Gakuin. They only exist to destroy the verse they don't like

Then why don't you defend it? Better yet, why, as supporters, did you guys let it get to this point and not stop problematic stuff from passing in the first place?

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Talking like that while the OP isn't even showing active hating intent like that is insane for a first time choosing to participate on the wiki

 

[3Pencil]

Then why don't you defend it? Better yet, why, as supporters, did you guys let it get to this point and not stop problematic stuff from passing in the first place?

It's not about not defending it, supporters just got tired needing to argue every 2 weeks about a downgrade thread which ignores everything because OPs says their theories are right and feat, statement are wrong

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

It's not about not defending it, supporters just got tired needing to argue every 2 weeks about a downgrade thread which ignores everything because OPs says their theories are right and feat, statement are wrong

the op is actively in a respectful back and forth and there's people who don't even agree with one and agree with the other

do you see the intent of hating THAT much??? what matters to you at this point?

 

[MeiouHades]

It's not about not defending it, supporters just got tired needing to argue every 2 weeks about a downgrade thread which ignores everything because OPs says their theories are right and feat, statement are wrong

Respectfully, that sounds like a massive cop out. Every thread will have the OP arguing their rhetoric and the opposition arguing theirs, that's nothing new. I also don't think they're ignoring anything. I'd give my own detailed take on this thread but I'm a bit tired right now, but I see nothing being swept under the rug or being left unaddressed. And again, if you're tired about a downgrade every 2 weeks, it was your job as a supporter to prevent flimsy threads from passing in the first place so you wouldn't have to defend them later. It's not the OP's fault it's the fault of the people who run the verse here.

 

[3Pencil]

the op is actively in a respectful back and forth and there's people who don't even agree with one and agree with the other

do you see the intent of hating THAT much??? what matters to you at this point?

That wasn't my point so please don't make my comments sounds like a hate

 

[Ultimuru]

It would be nice if instead of crying in this thread that our favorite verse is being downgraded again, we would actually discuss about if or why OP's points are wrong. Just my lil suggestion.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

That wasn't my point so please don't make my comments sounds like a hate

'Another nuke the verse cuz I don't like it thread'

 

[MeiouHades]

^This guy gets it. Also you ARE allowed to vent, you can do that in the general discussions threads, CRTs usually aren't a great place for it though, but no one's saying you can't (respectfully) vent if you feel like doin' that.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Considering the thread has already passed four pages, I think the ideal would be to make a summary of everything discussed so far, that way the staff can evaluate the arguments more effectively.

 

[AnviIndo28]

Respectfully, that sounds like a massive cop out. Every thread will have the OP arguing their rhetoric and the opposition arguing theirs, that's nothing new. I also don't think they're ignoring anything. I'd give my own detailed take on this thread but I'm a bit tired right now, but I see nothing being swept under the rug or being left unaddressed. And again, if you're tired about a downgrade every 2 weeks, it was your job as a supporter to prevent flimsy threads from passing in the first place so you wouldn't have to defend them later. It's not the OP's fault it's the fault of the people who run the verse here.

how is this become fault of verse supporter ? the supporter itself still re-translating any necessary feats in verse with official translate thread, yet this kinda downgrade thread came in, do you think this not making supporters stress out ?. yeah, if everything wrong in the verse, just dump it into supporters, classic.

 

[3Pencil]

^This guy gets it. Also you ARE allowed to vent, you can do that in the general discussions threads, CRTs usually aren't a great place for it though, but no one's saying you can't (respectfully) vent if you feel like doin' that.

Would refrain from doing so

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I just don’t get on how of most of the “supporters” of this verse tend to only downgrade the verse?





at this point they should be part of the opposition side rather than the supporters side of the verse page

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You had ChatGBT calculate the distance that needed to be covered based on the time, but in that case the time in question can be used if we assume that the estimate of the distance is correct. So they would have to be able to perceive the size of the world in question in order to have an idea of the distance. In that case, you're the one who claims that they can perceive the size of the world.

I would argue that safer option is that the distance in question is just the distance that needs to be covered to invade civilizations. Do you understand now?

So how does this help your case?

They thought that if they had gained a relying spirit and incarnated themselves, they could completely conquer this space-time within a few thousand to tens of thousands of years.

I thought it was because they had already done it with other dimensions, not because they could scan the entire dimension. So most of the dimensions took a similar amount of time to conquer, and they could have reached the end of the other dimensions they had already conquered within that time period. Because it's comes from narrative and conquerors thinking that way. So they should have some estimate time period thanks to previous conquests.

But I can see why it's seems Vague so I'll drop the feat.

Eldemade is not one of those people I wouldn't even want to communicate with. If he doesn't want me to talk to him like that, he shouldn't talk to me like that either. If he tells me sincerely which of my attitudes bothers him, I will tell him which of his attitudes bothers me. In the end, we get along or we don't, it doesn't matter.

On the contrary you started attacking me. Anyway not interested in going back and forth with this.

 

[Caduz213]

Then why don't you defend it? Better yet, why, as supporters, did you guys let it get to this point and not stop problematic stuff from passing in the first place?

I'm not a Tensura supporter, bro. And I also don't have time to spend hours debating things that won't change anything in my life. I just read the threads and say whether they make sense to me or not. Please don't take me seriously

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Respectfully, that sounds like a massive cop out. Every thread will have the OP arguing their rhetoric and the opposition arguing theirs, that's nothing new. I also don't think they're ignoring anything. I'd give my own detailed take on this thread but I'm a bit tired right now, but I see nothing being swept under the rug or being left unaddressed. And again, if you're tired about a downgrade every 2 weeks, it was your job as a supporter to prevent flimsy threads from passing in the first place so you wouldn't have to defend them later. It's not the OP's fault it's the fault of the people who run the verse here.

Yeah, I completely agree. Many supporters are hating on anyone who argues against them. Where was this attitude when people were upgrading the verse using mistranslations? Now they’re acting like victims.

By the way, I really respect @PrimeHydra64 dedication in this thread. He’s the only one actually trying to fix the verse in a respectful way. @Lycoris4812 is also doing a good job. It’s really the others’ attitude that’s the problem. They should start addressing what's wrong with the OP instead of attacking them or others.

 

[Caduz213]

Yeah, I completely agree. Many supporters are hating on anyone who argues against them. Where was this attitude when people were upgrading the verse using mistranslations? Now they’re acting like victims.

By the way, I really respect @PrimeHydra64 dedication in this thread. He’s the only one actually trying to fix the verse in a respectful way. @Lycoris4812 is also doing a good job. It’s really the others’ attitude that’s the problem. They should start addressing what's wrong with the OP instead of attacking them or others.

I admit that my comment comparing him to Pein was offensive. I'm going to apologize for that and if I have the patience I'll try to address why I disagree with this topic.