Tensura is NOT a multiverse! (Tensura cosmology downgrade)

[AnviIndo28]

Dude two days before instant death verse got nuked from 1-B to 3-A despite having universe statement because of size not being infinite. Don't act like Tensura is the only verse getting this treatment in wiki.

iirc because id verse has supportive statement if infinite can't be possible in there, while tensura doesn't have kinda statement as i know.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Btw Yuuki seeing the Sphere burst stuff. Seems like it was Vaccine Decay concept

Vacuum decay: the ultimate catastrophe

A favourite theory in physics has always been vacuum decay. It’s a quick, clean and efficient way of wiping out the Universe.

cosmosmagazine.com

While What Rimuru experienced was Heat Death of Universe.

Author really spamming all science related stuff it seems.

Anyway Vaccum decay seems to happen when Universe has low energy and expanding at SOL. Don't know if it helps just wanted to point out why Yuuki might have thought the bubble as a Universe.

Crazy good pull

 

[Robo432343]

if this thread gets accepted is veldanava going to be tier 5 on the profile

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

if this thread gets accepted is veldanava going to be tier 5 on the profile

Is this a genuine question or did you think it was the best time for a joke cause that's not funny and we don't need more fires tonight please especially from the ones with anger issues, AIN'T REALLY THE TIME FOR THAT

 

[Robo432343]

Is this a genuine question or did you think it was the best time for a joke cause that's not funny and we don't need more fires tonight please

you cant just make a thread and say get rid of the multiverse without suggesting what the new tiers will be

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

you cant just make a thread and say get rid of the multiverse without suggesting what the new tiers will be

I apologize for misunderstanding your intentions.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

But imo some of the ones who agreed early on might need to take a look at the summarized arguments to see if they agree still cause a lot has been gone over here

Edit: If that would also includes the ones who disagreed cause 'hate the verse thread' that should be decided if that's needed, though I'll assume none of what I said is how things'll work.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

if this thread gets accepted is veldanava going to be tier 5 on the profile

If veldanava did in fact create the entire "worlds"/dimension, then we can easily get Galaxy via the Interstellar world. So there's that at least

I don't disagree with the idea he did so don't argue with me on that.

 

[CodeCCLL]

If veldanava did in fact create the entire "worlds"/dimension, then we can easily get Galaxy via the Interstellar world. So there's that at least

I don't disagree with the idea he did so don't argue with me on that.

Yes, even the cardinal world universe is probably not a universe at all, it's starry sky at most.

Also yes it's hard to think Veldanava created a place including a starry sky or galaxy he probably only created planets. Also Rimuru creating the universe is pretty outlier he probably only recreated the planet.

5-B Veldanava is good now it's time to wait for the staff.

 

[Rikimarox2]

The Tensura Situation is crazy

Pyrocynical ahh title

 

[PrimeHydra64]

As cool as it is, I don't think that is the case. That expansion only happens at the speed of light but in tensura, the general space of the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light.

Btw Yuuki seeing the Sphere burst stuff. Seems like it was Vaccine Decay concept

Vacuum decay: the ultimate catastrophe

A favourite theory in physics has always been vacuum decay. It’s a quick, clean and efficient way of wiping out the Universe.

cosmosmagazine.com

While What Rimuru experienced was Heat Death of Universe.

Author really spamming all science related stuff it seems.

Anyway Vaccum decay seems to happen when Universe has low energy and expanding at SOL. Don't know if it helps just wanted to point out why Yuuki might have thought the bubble as a Universe.

 

[MeiouHades]

Still it gives the verse the right for 4D via transcending space and time

Not really. Those statements need a lot of context. They can be as low as 4D to as high as Low 1-A.

Space Time continuum is still there so what is the point I only typed space/time because of his statement "If I have a garage sized space/time and call it a universe, are we now going to allow that to be Low 2-C?"

Because that statement is important. He's right about that.

That only applies for universal as for the rest it depends on the structure

It applies to all space-times that you claim are universal sized.

Brother! he is saying that size is the sole requirements for scaling.

It is one of the most important and crucial requirements without which your scaling simply falls flat.

 

[MeiouHades]

Just say that it is infinite 3D space

No? You need evidence or statements for that too.

This is just pure bs at this point, you might aswell remove 4D for other characters who's statements of spacetime transcendance are only little.

It's called Set theory and I just used a very basic concept in it to explain how cardinality works and how this site uses it (which you were attempting to incorrectly use by quoting stuff like "transcending traditional infinity" without knowing that it means). I don't care what other characters use it, they're not the point of this thread.

Why would I add that there if I wasn't aware how it works

I don't know, you tell me. Why add it when you don't understand it?

Ok and what is your point? I already said that 3D is inside the universe, since a universe as a whole would be a spacetime continuum)

The point is that you haven't really proven that the 3D space inside is at least universal sized.

How did you even reach that point, I wasn't even talking about that

Just an example.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

As cool as it is, I don't think that is the case. That expansion only happens at the speed of light but in tensura, the general space of the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light.

Wasn't that stuff from the Cardinal World and Mai's thoughts? Since each world has different laws, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that some worlds expand at different speeds.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Wasn't that stuff from the Cardinal World and Mai's thoughts? Since each world has different laws, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that some worlds expand at different speeds.

Which is something that would need evidence for.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Which is something that would need evidence for.

Are you finally deciding to help with 'that argument' or are you still saving 'that argument' for the 5D thread

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

This is a long asf thread and no staff is reading all of this.

So it is best to summarize arguments.

I will probably make my view on this as the final counter argument.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Are you finally deciding to help with 'that argument' or are you still saving 'that argument' for the 5D thread

I will use a different argument for here. I was busy so I didn’t want to have to respond to paragraphs of yap after a whole page discussing it was passed

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

think the summary was a few pages back but I can't tell if it's outdated now or changed in some manner

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Wasn't that stuff from the Cardinal World and Mai's thoughts? Since each world has different laws, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that some worlds expand at different speeds.

that quote seems like a generalised statement, ''Even in the same world's universe, space continued to expand at a speed faster than light.
The correlation between space and time was beyond Mai's understanding. Furthermore, the probability of being able to arrive at the time and place where her beloved brother was alive was infinitesimal.''. The fact that she says' "in the same world's universe" means she has to consider other universes as well as the one that she is in (or rather was in).

And space is a part of the fundamental attributes/principles of existence so it changing wildly would be hard to believe especially with the aforementioned broadness of the ''expanding space'' statement and finally why would Yuuki who is not only backed up by the narrator as a factual source of information but Mai as well who's main objective is to get home and in doing so needs to learn about the cosmology? And also, they burst and disappear after expanding to a point, Vaccum Decay keeps going as a destructive force.

And in the web novel, universal spatial expansion was attributed to positive energy and even had a little equation being the growth speed = progression of time so it is more likely to assume that it is spatial expansion rather than Vaccum Decay because Fuse already had this in his mind long before volume 21.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Summary​

Tensura is NOT a multiverse! (Tensura cosmology downgrade)

Regarding OP and the Opposition, I'm split between both viewpoints. Some scans support what OP is claiming, while some of the points Primehydra brought up support the Opposition’s stance. Also, from what I’ve seen, the Tensura setup is similar to Bleach's cosmology. So, some worlds might qualify...

vsbattles.com

The main point of contention is still the size of these "Universes".

Opposition still argues that, it looks like a universe, called a universe therefore is a universe, type argument. They have multiple supporting evidence to prove it is a universe;

• Called a universe
• Called a space/time
• Said to have a timeline
• Experience heat death
• Expands faster than light.
• Has dimensional walls

While the arguments in Support of the OP;

• Stated these "universes" vary in size
• No evidence of universal in size
• Size isn't a factor in being called a universe in Tensura
• If one universe is bigger than the other, which one is truly universal in size?

One side is trying to say if it's called a universe, and space/time, then it should be a universe, while the other brings up the differing sized spaces.

think the summary was a few pages back but I can't tell if it's outdated now or changed in some manner

This has been what I've been asking proof for the entire time. I don't believe any new points were brought forward.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Yeah it needs to be updated again especially with my ''Other World'' possibly being bigger than the observable universe using Zalario as a measuring stick for it's age and spatial expansion. Why not add a likely or possibly option seeing as there is too much information being put forward.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

This has been what I've been asking proof for the entire time. I don't believe any new points were brought forward.

Well then, I guess all Hydra (or anyone else) needs to do is point out anything wrong with the summary or if there's anything new (aka on either side) there to add

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Yeah it needs to be updated again especially with my ''Other World'' possibly being bigger than the observable universe using Zalario as a measuring stick for it's age and spatial expansion. Why not add a likely or possibly option seeing as there is too much information being put forward.

Then shoot

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Well then, I guess all Hydra (or anyone else) needs to do is point out anything wrong with the summary or if there's anything new (aka on either side) there to add

How did you know ???

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

How did you know ???

I thought I sent my message before you sent yours

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Precognition lol

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Precognition lol

Only for people who act kind.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

that quote seems like a generalised statement, ''Even in the same world's universe, space continued to expand at a speed faster than light.
The correlation between space and time was beyond Mai's understanding. Furthermore, the probability of being able to arrive at the time and place where her beloved brother was alive was infinitesimal.''. The fact that she says' "in the same world's universe" means she has to consider other universes as well as the one that she is in (or rather was in).

Can it be considered that these are Worlds where Mai has been? Since it's her thoughts, not the narrative, and she's thinking that way. I'm not denying the universe expanding at FTL speeds for the Cardinal World or the Worlds Mai has knowledge about—but I'm talking about the specific sphere that Yuuki saw.
Also, does FTL or SOL make any difference here? I'm only referring to what happened in that particular scene. It seemed like you might have misunderstood it as the Heat Death of the Universe.

And space is a part of the fundamental attributes/principles of existence so it changing wildly would be hard to believe especially with the aforementioned broadness of the ''expanding space'' statement and finally why would Yuuki who is not only backed up by the narrator as a factual source of information but Mai as well who's main objective is to get home and in doing so needs to learn about the cosmology? And also, they burst and disappear after expanding to a point, Vaccum Decay keeps going as a destructive force.

We're talking about rules, not the attributes of the world themselves. For example, space can be a concept that's consistent across all worlds, but the way laws work within each world might be different, right?

And in the web novel, universal spatial expansion was attributed to positive energy and even had a little equation being the growth speed = progression of time so it is more likely to assume that it is spatial expansion rather than Vaccum Decay because Fuse already had this in his mind long before volume 21.

Vacuum decay is the only explanation that fits here, since the Heat Death of the Universe doesn’t destroy the universe like Yuuki observed—it halts processes and causes the universe to stop functioning, not vanish entirely.

Anyway my comments regarding is neither about agreeing or disagreeing regarding anything about Yuuki case I'm just pointing out it was most likely Vaccume Decay.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah it needs to be updated again especially with my ''Other World'' possibly being bigger than the observable universe using Zalario as a measuring stick for it's age and spatial expansion. Why not add a likely or possibly option seeing as there is too much information being put forward.

Personally, I'm fine with Low 2-C ratings for the Cardinal World Universe, the Otherworld, and a few unknown worlds in subspace. However, it should also be noted that not all worlds within subspace are universal in size.

I could make my own arguments for this but I agree Cosmology can be 2-C.

I disagree with Chloe time travel cycle being 2-A that stuff needs to go.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Size isn't a factor in being called a universe in Tensura

To do this, you need to prove directly that a structure called the universe is smaller than the IRL universe. So where is that proof? There are only, worlds we think smaller than the universe size considering some feats.

Stated these "universes" vary in

Similarly, structures with varying size are worlds. There are both larger other worlds (a bigger universe) than standart universe and smaller worlds.

No evidence of universal in size

Many of the cosmologies currently rated 3-A and above do not have direct proof of the existence of galaxy clusters. Many are rated 3-A and above simply on the grounds that they are called starry sky + universe or that they must be similar to the IRL universe.

If one universe is bigger than the other, which one is truly universal in size?

One world can be universal size and the other world can still be larger than the IRL universe. That doesn't mean that either one isn't universally large.

 

[Ultimuru]

I woke up to entire page more to read. God I love Tensura.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

I am going to summarize my arguments in a conclusion here so that it's all out there for anyone to read.

The Premise Conclusion​

Time loops/Cycles, is it 2A?​

No one contended with the cycles/loops, so it's safe to say the agreement for it can be finalized, unless someone wishes to bring that up now.

EDIT:
The main Opposition for the 2A infinite timeline arguments are from Feldway

Tensura is NOT a multiverse! (Tensura cosmology downgrade)

I'm calling to question the very fact that since they vary in size, there is no factor of size when calling something a universe in Tensura. You also repeat the fact that two universes can be bigger or smaller. Something larger than the universe is also a universe, one of the two universes may...

vsbattles.com

The opposition brings up that Hinata was corrected by chloe, but my response was that it was Hinata's thoughts running on, and not a separate person thinking, since we are in the head of Hinata, not chloe.

Spoiler: My Refutation

This wasn't chloe's thoughts because we knew Hinata was thinking up the theories as they went along, majority of Volume 11 chapter 5 was Hinata's thoughts, Chloe speaking to Hinata in Quotations and Hinata speaking directly to Chloe is within <>. So this is just misunderstanding who's saying what.

By the looks of it, my theory seems to be correct…

There really was only one world, and it did not allow the existence of a paradox.

—No, that’s not entirely true. It’s not that it doesn’t allow the existence of a paradox. It just stops the world from collapsing. If there was something strong enough, such as the creation of the mask, then even the paradox couldn’t destroy it, and instead only twist its existence. Otherwise, there’s no way to explain the existence of the peculiar mask.

It was also brought up that contradictions could exist if they were forced into the timeline enough which the mask did and should therefore disprove two chloes not being able to exist as a refutation.

I simply noted that as a converse fallacy of accident, trying to use an exception to outweigh the general rule, since Two chloes couldn't exist at the same time in a timeline, which wasn't refuted.

It was also said that two chloes can't exist in the same timeline no matter the era, not that it has to be the same time, which I refuted with this;

Spoiler: Refutation

This doesn't even negate anything since Chloe was in the past, and came to the point where Chloe was being born, which was the time when she disappeared. So past chloe can exist in the same timeline, but as soon as chloe is summoned in said timeline, it creates two beings of the same soul, which means the chloe of the future/past, cannot exist because young chloe takes priority.

“Anyhow, Chloe will lose consciousness soon, right? That is probably what happens when two of the same entity exist at the same place in spacetime continuity. Hinata, I believe your theory is correct.”

‹Right. And then, Chloe’s younger self will be physically transported to that time period since she’ll have just been summoned.›

So when Chloe is summoned, that forces the other chloe to not exist anymore.

Leading on to talking about parallel worlds, it was noted that the use of the phrase was taken as a proof of existence, when I noted that in later volumes, it was restated and the term was changed to "other word" not parallel worlds;

Spoiler: Refutation

No, because "parallel" worlds are redefined as Other world;

Spoiler: Volume 17

There are NO parallel worlds. Meaning parallel worlds do not exist. So simply saying "parallel" doesn't conclude actual parallel worlds, but other worlds.

Parallel worlds do exist just not in that sense.

This was a line in volume 16, before the journey inter-dimensionally. And considering I've given evidence that parallel worlds were redefined to other worlds, simply bringing up lines from previous volumes doesn't retcon something after it.

So there was no overall proof, other than a mistranslation I already accepted not being usable, brought forth to argue against the fact that it was a singular timeline Chloe was looping in, considering her inability to exist in said timeline which goes against multiversal theory, and that the fact these cycle's are referred to timelines still stand without solid evidence refuting that point.

Also want to point out, Chloe never preposed a theory, it was primarily Hinata that was theorizing in the chapter. So Hinata was going through ideas, which eventually Finalized her thoughts, with the support of Luminas backing her theory, that the world is being remade after every cycle, which proves a single timeline.

Is it the size of a Universe?​

The main point of contention puts into question whether these "universes" are universal in size.

I brought attention to the fact that these spaces/dimensions vary in size;

The universe is vast, but not as much as the otherworld/spirit world/underworld

Indicating these "other world" universes are larger than the Universe Velgrynd was in at that current moment.

With also a contention with the fact that the plan for that same "universe" was to conquer it in 20,000 years. Since they utilized an Underworld gate to get to the Holy Arcia Empire planet. There's no known method of travelling ftl for the Phantoms, and, to my knowledge, underworld gates appear only on select planets via space-time rifts appearing at random every 4000 years, this would mean they have no method to traverse 20,000 years in a span of time that would prove without a doubt that that universe isn't vaster than a galaxy at most.

Even in the same world's universe, space continued to expand at a speed faster than light.

Implies universes grow in size, which entails there a difference in size if a universe was there before another, also if time flows slower in some worlds or faster in others.

The time axis of each dimension is different from the other. If the time axes are synchronized between worlds, there is no time difference even if the dimension leaps. In reality, however, such a phenomenon could not be expected.

Time isn't in synch, so we cannot state the time in each "universe" is 1 to 1 with another.

Since time in the other world and the Cardinal World were different, Zalario felt as if he had been fighting for more than tens of billions of years.

Which also could allow this to give context for slower time flow since Zalario felt billions of years, which may have not been the case that tens of billions of years passed by.

"It seems like even time doesn't flow in this place."
...
Strictly speaking, time does flow. However, since there's no way to observe it, Yuuki guesses that "time doesn't flow" or "it flows very slowly" based on his own fatigue level and the fact that he doesn't get hungry.

The labyrinth is adjacent to the other world, that is, subspace, and is in contact with many other worlds.

We have subspace which is referred to as an Other world, where time flows slow enough for Yuuki to not be able to notice that time is even flowing.

We also concluded that dimensions vary in size in this CRT, which should add more validity to this being the case.

So clearly we have an underlying issues where "universes" can vary in size, which I bring up must mean that size isn't a factor when calling something a universe in Tensura, therefore there has to be evidence put forward that can confirm the sizes of these "universes" are indeed vsbw's classification of Universal-Size Realm

Translation​

I feel like most of the translations aren't necessary anymore, but there were a ton that haven't been translated yet such as being called Universes, and whether Zalario was perceiving time differently than the other world he was in;

ザラリオの体感時間では数百億年以上もの永きに渡って、

Edit: Confirmed correct translation;

Tensura is NOT a multiverse! (Tensura cosmology downgrade)

I'm calling to question the very fact that since they vary in size, there is no factor of size when calling something a universe in Tensura. You also repeat the fact that two universes can be bigger or smaller. Something larger than the universe is also a universe, one of the two universes may...

vsbattles.com

異界と基軸世界では流れる時間が違う為、
Because in the Otherworld and Cardinal World, the flowing time is different,
ザラリオの体感時間では数百億年以上もの永きに渡って、
In Zarario’s experienced time, over a long period of more than hundreds of billions of years,
戦い続けているようなものなのだ。
It is like he has been continuing to fight.
それなのに剣の技量が頭打ちなのは、
And yet, the reason his sword skill has hit a ceiling is
蟲魔族<[インセクター]という敵の特性に特化してしまったせいである。
Because he ended up specializing in the traits of the enemy called the Insector, the insect demon tribe.

So Zalario was experiencing time differently, which could imply the flow of time in the Other world he was in was slower.

EDIT: I also want to question if a space expanding without proving having the material content equal to a universe, should be regarded as a universe level space.

For example, if i create just a galaxy amount of matter in a space that expands faster than the speed of light and that space ends up expanding to the size of a universe, would that be considered universal even when the content inside is only equal to a galaxy?

It's not like the verse follows the big bang theory which had a universal amount of matter compressed into a tiny particle, which then blew up and spresd that around, which then expands into a universes sized place.

So unless we know for certain that Veldanava created a universal amount of matter, even with the space expanding, why should we take that as low 2-C? I also want to reference my Rubber band analogy.

It's not like there is more space, sure it gets bigger but that doesnt mean its adding anything. Its similar to a rubber band. If I create a rubber band and it hypothetically has the property to extend indefinitely and I stretch it out to the size of earth, that wouldnt make the rubber band that started a size to fit inside my hand a planetary level creation feat.
(I use indefinitely to just make the analogy sound better compared to a universe)

So in the sense of a space, the "fabric" of space is just expands outward, but the idea of this is that movement between things are also moving away from each other, like its stretching out space itself. So the content of that once galaxy level space, can become universe in size without having the equivalent matter inside of it. Would the empty space than allow that now universal sized galaxy to be universal?

Conclusion​

So considering the there were no refutations to the Cycle/Time loop premise, 2A should be removed from;

• Veldanava
• The Voice of the World
• Tensura Cosmology page

Also considering we have the main refutations regarding the sizes of these "universes" still called to question, we can conclude any rating in Tier 2 at all, unless of course someone brings up a very valid argument that those "Universes" are indeed the size of universes that would be classified under Vsbw's terms.

With what those profiles should instead have in it's place would be 3-C considering;

• The proof of an interstellar world
• Also if space does expand faster than the speed of light, and cardinal world and even the world of the Holy Arcia Empire would have at least 20,000 years of life, this would put the two worlds within galaxy level ranges at least.

Whether or not 3-B is dependent on how Veldanava created these worlds, either all at once or one at a time as I don't remember seeing anything that would elude to it being all at once.

Where They Scale At​

At the moment, the possible downgrades would fall to 2-C at the highest with 3-C at the lowest.

If we accept a single Universe sized Realm with multiple others of unknown size, it'd be low 2-C with possibly higher.

If all universal sized realms are rejected, then it'd fall to 3-C with possibly 3-B scaling.

General Consensus is 2-C for the multiverse being accepted, awaiting Staff opinions.

 

[AnviIndo28]

worth to mention this thread still waiting for translation from translators. saying it aren't necessary anymore is not true as the verse itself very controversial to translations, so need to re-check the raw, currently seijisetto do the volunteer.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

worth to mention this thread still waiting for translation from translators. saying it aren't necessary anymore is not true as the verse itself very controversial to translations, so need to re-check the raw, currently seijisetto do the volunteer.

then that is to be added for something to wait for

otherwise, that's hyper's summary, now just the other side's (whoever's writing it) and things can be finalized with the tls (whenever those come out and thus final thoughts can be given I suppose)

 

[CodeCCLL]

Also considering we have the main refutations regarding the sizes of these "universes" still called to question, we can conclude any rating in Tier 2 at all, unless of course someone brings up a very valid argument that those "Universes" are indeed the size of universes that would be classified under Vsbw's terms

So, according to you, even Cardinal World Universe is not universal in size?
I'm asking seriously, do you really believe what you're saying?

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

then that is to be added for something to wait for

otherwise, that's hyper's summary, now just the other side's (whoever's writing it) and things can be finalized with the tls (whenever those come out and thus final thoughts can be given I suppose)

really should go over those agreements with how things changed up in this thread-.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

To do this, you need to prove directly that a structure called the universe is smaller than the IRL universe. So where is that proof? There are only, worlds we think smaller than the universe size considering some feats.

I'm calling to question the very fact that since they vary in size, there is no factor of size when calling something a universe in Tensura.

You also repeat the fact that two universes can be bigger or smaller.

Similarly, structures with varying size are worlds. There are both larger other worlds (a bigger universe) than standart universe and smaller worlds.

The point about the one universe being universal in size but also being able to be conquered by the Phantom in only 20,000 years would be either they plan to take over the entire space with no proof of ftl travel and already took unknown amount of years to prep to invade the Holy Arcia Empire planet, which means 20,000 years is not a large timeframe to conquer something 93 billion light years in diameter.

Many of the cosmologies currently rated 3-A and above do not have direct proof of the existence of galaxy clusters. Many are rated 3-A and above simply on the grounds that they are called starry sky + universe or that they must be similar to the IRL universe.

When there is evidence claiming differing sizes of universes, in puts into question the validity of if the size is equal to a universe or not via wiki standards.

So unless those cosmologies don't have contradictory evidence in the sizes of those spaces, then its a red herring.

One world can be universal size and the other world can still be larger than the IRL universe. That doesn't mean that either one isn't universally large.

Which I'm putting to question the universal sized space is even universal in size.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

worth to mention this thread still waiting for translation from translators. saying it aren't necessary anymore is not true as the verse itself very controversial to translations, so need to re-check the raw, currently seijisetto do the volunteer.

reason why I said this, is because I agreed to the idea that these spaces are called universes for arguments sake since the topic was going no where and circling back to "well they are called universe here, here and here."

 

[TheHyperGuy]

So, according to you, even Cardinal World Universe is not universal in size?
I'm asking seriously, do you really believe what you're saying?

Originally, I had no issues with that until I saw statements regarding these spaces are vastly different in size, therefore it calls to question whether or not "Universe" even determines size in the Tensura verse.