One-Punch Man: Mid Tier Scaling Review

[Kachon123]

1. Darkshine's Durability scales to 2x his AP value. He fought Bang and tanked several of his own attacks reflected with 2x the force without taking any damage. He also did the same with Garou. His durability being far higher than his AP is consistent as he doesn't even know how to scratch his skin. This logic is used for Bug God so the same is applied here.

2. Elder Centipede durability scales to the New Old Hero Association headquarters as Metal Knight, who built it and has the capabilities of destroying it rather easily, viewed Elder Centipede's carapace as durable enough to where samples would significantly aid him in weapon creation.

• The previous calc for the Hero Association had issues with pixel scaling that I noticed so I fixed it and got it re-evaluated.
  • Old Hero Association Building: 7-A+ -> 7-B
  • New Hero Association Building: High 7-A

3. Tanktop Master's 'Psionically Enhanced' key and those who scale are now 7-A thanks to this calc being accepted:

One-Punch Man: Tanktop Master Throws Massive Boulders

vsbattles.fandom.com

What this changes:

• Elder Centipede and those relative go from scaling to Gyoro Gyoro's 7-A to Metal Knight's High 7-A. (Majority of the Cadre, majority of the S-Class Heroes)
• Darkshine's durability and those relative scales to 2x his AP to 7-A+. (Darkshine's Durability, Post-Darkshine Garou, likely Awakening Breath Bang, Post-Molt Elder Centipede)
• Lower Cadre like Gums go from scaling massively above Bug God's High 7-C+ to Tanktop Master's 7-A (Psionically Enhanced Tanktop Master, Gums, Pig God, etc.)

 

[Damage3245]

2. Elder Centipede durability scales to the New Hero Association headquarters as Metal Knight, who built it and has the capabilities of destroying it rather easily, viewed Elder Centipede's carapace as durable enough to where samples would significantly aid him in weapon creation.

Elder Centipede and those relative go from scaling to Gyoro Gyoro's 7-A to Metal Knight's High 7-A. (Majority of the Cadre, majority of the S-Class Heroes)

I disagree with this.

What you've calced here:

HA Building Surface Area (Pyramid): 6100000 m2

Area: 4 * π * 8043.02 = 812916618 m2

Intensity: (1405406809000000000000/812916618)/2 = 864422487000 Joules/m2

HA Building Durability: 864422487000*6100000 = 5272977170000000000 Joules

Is that the durability of the Hero Association's building is 864422487000 Joules, or 206 tons per meters squared. This gets multiplied by the sheer surface area of the headquarters to get durability spread out over the entire surface of the headquarters, but Elder Centipede wouldn't have any reason to scale to the 5272977170000000000 Joules value.

 

[Kachon123]

Is that the durability of the Hero Association's building is 864422487000 Joules, or 206 tons per meters squared. This gets multiplied by the sheer surface area of the headquarters to get durability spread out over the entire surface of the headquarters, but Elder Centipede wouldn't have any reason to scale to the 5272977170000000000 Joules value.

The reasoning is that Metal Knight's missiles have the capability of destroying the building while Metal Knight stated that missiles would not work against Elder Centipede. It's important to note that the durability value comes from completely no-selling what the rating comes from. Would you be willing to compromise for a likely rating?

 

[MrTayman616]

1. Darkshine's Durability scales to 2x his AP value. He fought Bang and tanked several of his own attacks reflected with 2x the force without taking any damage. He also did the same with Garou. His durability being far higher than his AP is consistent as he doesn't even know how to scratch his skin. This logic is used for Bug God so the same is applied here.

I agree. Though it should be 2x his AP value and 4x his current durability imo.

At first, the attacks Garou deflected is from an vastly holding back Darkshine (This version of Darkshine scales to the current value, he currently tanks 2x the value of AP without any injury at all). But he later one shots Garou via getting more serious, which the power behind it is so great it was impossible for Garou to even deflect it. And then Garou overcomes death and gets stronger. Then Darkshine starts to go all out, which Garou evolved enough to equal him in power and even somewhat capable of injuring him (meaning Garou reached above 2x the current value as Darkshine could tank that 2x force with no difficulty) and then deflects his attack which he could resist even though getting some damage Darkshine (meaning his durability is 4x his current value).

3. Tanktop Master's 'Psionically Enhanced' key and those who scale are now 7-A thanks to this calc being accepted:

One-Punch Man: Tanktop Master Throws Massive Boulders

vsbattles.fandom.com

I agree with this as well. Though it also increases the current lifting strength tiers from Class G/T to Class P, no? (Or is it because the thread is only for AP?)

 

[Kachon123]

At first, the attacks Garou deflected is from an vastly holding back Darkshine (This version of Darkshine scales to the current value, he currently tanks 2x the value of AP without any injury at all). But he later one shots Garou via getting more serious, which the power behind it is so great it was impossible for Garou to even deflect it. And then Garou overcomes death and gets stronger. Then Darkshine starts to go all out, which Garou evolved enough to equal him in power and even somewhat capable of injuring him (meaning Garou reached above 2x the current value as Darkshine could tank that 2x force with no difficulty) and then deflects his attack which he could resist even though getting some damage Darkshine (meaning his durability is 4x his current value).

Garou never deflected any of Darkshine's strongest attacks and there is no proof that he used his full power against Bang (and it's implied he did not). I do not agree with 4x.

 

[MrTayman616]

Garou never deflected any of Darkshine's strongest attacks and there is no proof that he used his full power against Bang (and it's implied he did not). I do not agree with 4x.

Doesn't this apply though? (He started going all out before this)

 

[Kachon123]

Doesn't this apply though? (He started going all out before this)

Garou used a proto-Fa Jin, which is durability negation. Darkshine also took damage from this. It wouldn't apply.

 

[MrTayman616]

Garou used a proto-Fa Jin, which is durability negation. Darkshine also took damage from this. It wouldn't apply.

He used it while also deflecting the attack, meaning he used both dura neg + 2x increase.

Also he just took some kind of damage. Not a big injury nor anything like that. He doesn't have to tank the attack no diff just so his durability can scale to it, no? (He just get up and continued fighting as well without showing any bothering about the damage itself)

 

[Kachon123]

He used it while also deflecting the attack, meaning he used both dura neg + 2x increase.

Also he just took some kind of damage. Not a big injury nor anything like that. He doesn't have to tank the attack no diff just so his durability can scale to it, no? (He just get up and continued fighting as well without showing any bothering about the damage itself)

The fact that Garou used durability negation means we have no way of knowing for sure the amount of damage Darkshine would've taken had he not. Trying to grant a multiplier based off a compete unknown like that gets into shaky territory that I'm not comfortable with or willing to add to the points in the OP, sorry. You could propose it in a later CRT if you'd like though.

 

[Raiden38]

1. Darkshine's Durability scales to 2x his AP value. He fought Bang and tanked several of his own attacks reflected with 2x the force without taking any damage. He also did the same with Garou. His durability being far higher than his AP is consistent as he doesn't even know how to scratch his skin. This logic is used for Bug God so the same is applied here.

2. Elder Centipede durability scales to the New Hero Association headquarters as Metal Knight, who built it and has the capabilities of destroying it rather easily, viewed Elder Centipede's carapace as durable enough to where samples would significantly aid him in weapon creation.

• The previous calc for the Hero Association had issues with pixel scaling that I noticed so I fixed it and got it re-evaluated.
  • Old Hero Association Building: 7-A+ -> 7-B
  • New Hero Association Building: High 7-A

3. Tanktop Master's 'Psionically Enhanced' key and those who scale are now 7-A thanks to this calc being accepted:

One-Punch Man: Tanktop Master Throws Massive Boulders

vsbattles.fandom.com

What this changes:

• Elder Centipede and those relative go from scaling to Gyoro Gyoro's 7-A to Metal Knight's High 7-A. (Majority of the Cadre, majority of the S-Class Heroes)
• Darkshine's durability and those relative scales to 2x his AP to High 7-A+. (Darkshine's Durability, Post-Darkshine Garou, likely Awakening Breath Bang, Post-Molt Elder Centipede)
• Lower Cadre like Gums go from scaling massively above Bug God's High 7-C+ to Tanktop Master's 7-A (Psionically Enhanced Tanktop Master, Gums, Pig God, etc.)

for now I quite agree

 

[Damage3245]

The reasoning is that Metal Knight's missiles have the capability of destroying the building while Metal Knight stated that missiles would not work against Elder Centipede. It's important to note that the durability value comes from completely no-selling what the rating comes from. Would you be willing to compromise for a likely rating?

The missiles that Metal Knight used against Elder Centipede aren't necessarily the full arsenal that would be used against the Hero Association headquarters, and even in the visual we get of the hypothetical destruction taking place we don't know how many missiles would be used.

I don't think it's enough to suggest a solid or likely rating for comparing Elder Centipede to the full HQ.

3. Tanktop Master's 'Psionically Enhanced' key and those who scale are now 7-A thanks to this calc being accepted:

One-Punch Man: Tanktop Master Throws Massive Boulders

vsbattles.fandom.com

How do we know that Fubuki's psionic enhancement for Tanktop Master is still in effect by the time he fights Gums and Fuhrer Ugly? I don't think there's any solid indication that this would be the case.

 

[Kachon123]

How do we know that Fubuki's psionic enhancement for Tanktop Master is still in effect by the time he fights Gums and Fuhrer Ugly? I don't think there's any solid indication that this would be the case.

That is what's accepted currently.

The missiles that Metal Knight used against Elder Centipede aren't necessarily the full arsenal that would be used against the Hero Association headquarters, and even in the visual we get of the hypothetical destruction taking place we don't know how many missiles would be used.

It wasn't necessarily his "full arsenal" that would've been used. According to Drive Knight, it was only his missiles and remote controlled explosives.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think a likely or possibly should work here.

 

[Kachon123]

Thanks for your input Mav

 

[Damage3245]

It wasn't necessarily his "full arsenal" that would've been used. According to Drive Knight, it was only his missiles and remote controlled explosives.

Still though, none of those would scale fully to the entire surface area of the headquarters yet.

 

[Kachon123]

Still though, none of those would scale fully to the entire surface area of the headquarters yet.

The point is that even though it was the missiles that would have destroyed the headquarters, Metal Knight stated that missiles flatout won't work against Elder Centipede and that it would help him develop better weapons. Metal Knight also produced the material for the headquarters and still found Elder Centipede's carapace greater than any material he had at disposal. Surely this is enough for bare minimum a likely rating.

 

[Damage3245]

Not for the High 7-A calc. Being made of a sturdier material than what the headquarters is made of =/= scaling to the durability of the entire headquarters.

 

[Kachon123]

Perhaps but the simple fact that Elder Centipede was above the weapons that he had, which was capable of destroying the headquarters, as well as the carapace being above the headquarters itself should be enough. It wouldn't make any logical sense for Metal Knight to be hyping it up just for Elder Centipede to be taking more damage from his missiles than the headquarters that would have been completely destroyed.

The point is that even though it was the missiles that would have destroyed the headquarters, Metal Knight stated that missiles flatout won't work against Elder Centipede and that it would help him develop better weapons.

 

[Damage3245]

A car that is made of tungsten isn't necessarily going to be more durable than a cruise liner made of steel.

You're conflating two things of 1) Metal Knight couldn't harm Elder Centipede with a few missiles, and 2) Metal Knight's weaponry can be used to destroy the Hero Association headquarters.

Both things can be true without Elder Centipede's durability > the Hero Association headquarters durability overall.

A cubic meter of Elder Centipede could be over twice as dense/durable as a cubic meter of Hero Association headquarters, and it still wouldn't support what you're proposing for the ratings.

 

[Kachon123]

If the tungsten car is capable of withstanding blasts that would destroy the cruise liner then I don't see why that would be an issue.

Metal Knight's missiles can be used to destroy the Hero Association. Metal Knight's missiles can not be used to destroy Elder Centipede.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't know how else to explain it to you, so I'll let other staff members comment on it.

That is what's accepted currently.

Aside from being what is currently accepted, is there any evidence for it?

 

[Kachon123]

Aside from being what is currently accepted, is there any evidence for it?

Supported by scaling inconsistencies that would pop up otherwise, also the time elapsed from the initial amp wasn't long (look at Bang, Bomb, and Fubuki vs Rover). It's also heavily implied by Tanktop Master himself that the amp ended after he got turned fat.

 

[Damage3245]

Supported by scaling inconsistencies that would pop up otherwise, also the time elapsed from the initial amp wasn't long (look at Bang, Bomb, and Fubuki vs Rover). It's also heavily implied by Tanktop Master himself that the amp ended after he got turned fat.

Which scaling incosnsitencies?

Also, I think you're misinterpreting what that page means. He isn't referring to the physical boost he got from her for fighting Psykos; he's referring to the massive boost he got from her through Pig God which made him fat.

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[FinePoint]

Points 1 and 3 seem fine.

I share the same concerns as Damage regarding point 2, and I feel like it's too much of a logical leap for a possibly either.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Does the new size of the Hero Association effect the Sky King's feat of shaking it?

 

[KingTempest]

Regarding point 2, if dude shows to destroy all of it rather quickly, I’m fine with it. If not, then nada

 

[Kachon123]

Regarding point 2, if dude shows to destroy all of it rather quickly, I’m fine with it. If not, then nada

Alright thanks, it's shown that it would get destroyed pretty quickly after the Monster Association got access to his weapons. Missiles and such

 

[Damage3245]

Alright thanks, it's shown that it would get destroyed pretty quickly after the Monster Association got access to his weapons. Missiles and such

A lot more weapons than just an individual Metal Knight unit which is what fought Elder Centipede though.

 

[Kachon123]

A lot more weapons than just an individual Metal Knight unit which is what fought Elder Centipede though.

That Metal Knight robot is noted as one of Bofoi's most prized weapons so it would have the strongest ones for combat compared to codes for his remote controlled missiles. When Metal Knight fought Elder Centipede, he shot dozens of missiles and none of them worked. He said that missiles literally just don't work.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm personally fine with it

 

[Damage3245]

That Metal Knight robot is noted as one of Bofoi's most prized weapons so it would have the strongest ones for combat compared to codes for his remote controlled missiles. When Metal Knight fought Elder Centipede, he shot dozens of missiles and none of them worked. He said that missiles literally just don't work.

There simply isn't enough reason to scale those missiles to the calculation in the OP.

Multiple missiles were used on Elder Centipede, but on different areas of its body - so it doesn't matter whether one missile or multiple are being considered here. Just like how a person being hit by multiple bullets doesn't get the value of those bullets added up to equal their durability.

One missile from Metal Knight's Metal Knight does not compare to the durability of the entire surface area of the Hero Association. Now, can we say that one missile can still damage the Hero Association? Sure; but the value for damaging the Hero Association is not the value in the calculation you're trying to use.

I'm personally fine with it

Am I wrong in my analysis here? The High 7-A calculation simply has no direct connection to Elder Centipede's feat as far as I can tell.

 

[KingTempest]

Am I wrong in my analysis here? The High 7-A calculation simply has no direct connection to Elder Centipede's feat as far as I can tell.

Less of wrong and more skeptical and reserved.

If Metal Knight can quickly destroy a building that would take High 7-A energy to destroy completely, seems that prolonged power output is fine

Our wiki is very pathetic in terms of durability scaling to surface area. In the grand scheme of things, you'd be right, with widespread damage and the like. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world.

On top of that, he directly noted that "missiles do not harm it". This implies that even the max potential of the missiles he has in his arsenal would do little, even if he did focus it on 1 spot or not.

 

[Damage3245]

I've taken a closer look at the calc. Correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't both calculations for surface area of the shapes here taking into account the base of the shapes? The part of the surface area that wouldn't be hit by an explosion?

 

[Kachon123]

I've taken a closer look at the calc. Correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't both calculations for surface area of the shapes here taking into account the base of the shapes? The part of the surface area that wouldn't be hit by an explosion?

The shockwave from the explosion which destroyed the entirety of A-City still passed through the base of the building.

 

[Kachon123]

.

Hello FinePoint, has your opinion changed after seeing what KingTempest posted?

 

[Damage3245]

The shockwave from the explosion which destroyed the entirety of A-City still passed through the base of the building.

The amount energy hitting the base obviously isn't going to be the same as the amount of energy hitting the outer surface of the building. Same reason why the ordinary humans inside don't get splattered into pulp by the shockwave passing through the building; the outer walls absorb or deflect most of the enrgy.

 

[Kachon123]

The amount energy hitting the base obviously isn't going to be the same as the amount of energy hitting the outer surface of the building. Same reason why the ordinary humans inside don't get splattered into pulp by the shockwave passing through the building; the outer walls absorb or deflect most of the enrgy.

I'm aware of that. I'm not saying that the shockwaves passed through the wall and hit the floor. I'm saying that the shockwave also clearly travelled along the ground and swept through the base.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm aware of that. I'm not saying that the shockwaves passed through the wall and hit the floor. I'm saying that the shockwave also clearly travelled along the ground and swept through the base.

I think you're misunderstanding me; I'm not talking about the base of the structure as in the lower portions of the outer walls. I'm talking about the underside of the structure which is currently being taken into account by calcing the entire surface area of the headquarters. Imagine a cube; it has six sides, right? Well a cube resting on the ground being hit by an explosion from above won't have the sixth side that's in contact with the ground being hit. Even if you're imagining the ground was somehow excavated away underneath it by the blast, it's still not being hit the same way and with the same energy.