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One-Punch Man: Mid Tier Scaling Review
- Thread starter Kachon123
- Start date
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- 34,587
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I think it's a odd shape is an additional reason to be against this method of scaling to be honest. Metal Knight "destroying the Hero Association" doesn't require him to individually blow up every square meter of its outer surface. Even in the hypothetical visual we get of his arsenal of weapons assaulting the Hero Association we don't see that level of comprehensive destruction.
So there is less reason to scale Elder Centipede's durability to the energy required to blow up the entire surface area of the new Hero Association.
What's funny is that we could cut out the middle man and directly calculate the explosions caused by Metal Knight's missiles when he used them against Elder Centipede; they're clearly visible, and we have a formula for calcing explosions, so we have an on-screen demonstrable feat that can be calculated... But I suspect even if we did that, they wouldn't be accepted as viable because the alternative proposal gives a much higher result because it involves multiple steps of scaling to a calc that nobody should directly scale to.
So there is less reason to scale Elder Centipede's durability to the energy required to blow up the entire surface area of the new Hero Association.
What's funny is that we could cut out the middle man and directly calculate the explosions caused by Metal Knight's missiles when he used them against Elder Centipede; they're clearly visible, and we have a formula for calcing explosions, so we have an on-screen demonstrable feat that can be calculated... But I suspect even if we did that, they wouldn't be accepted as viable because the alternative proposal gives a much higher result because it involves multiple steps of scaling to a calc that nobody should directly scale to.
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- Thread starter
- #44
Well now we're kind of going back to where we started. I'm talking about whether to include the base for the reconstructed building which you brought up, not if Elder Centipede should scale to it or not. We already have votes on that.
It's not even about the result it gives. We can calculate the size of the explosions that Metal Knight's missiles created for all I care, but we both know explosion size and attack potency don't always correlate so this just seems dishonest because it gets us nowhere in relation to the OP.
It's not even about the result it gives. We can calculate the size of the explosions that Metal Knight's missiles created for all I care, but we both know explosion size and attack potency don't always correlate so this just seems dishonest because it gets us nowhere in relation to the OP.
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Well, strictly speaking you wouldn't include the base for the reconstructed building either if you want my opinion on just that specifically. If you're trying to account for the structure's unusual surface area then a different way would be better.
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Also, I hate to have to raise this question (because I think my own earlier objections to the method are sufficient), but is this not also Calc Stacking? The durability of the new Hero Association HQ is dependent on the results of another calc. To be clear, it's not calc stacking to find the durability of the old Hero Association HQ because that's still in the same scene, but it is if you're trying to extrapolate that to the new HQ, and then you're attempting to side-step calculating the actual potency of Metal Knight's missiles by trying to scale them to the full structure instead of looking at how much they actually destroy.
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- 7,833
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Well, KingTempest makes good points in general, and I'd probably agree with him regarding a different verse, but as someone with intimate knowledge of the verse, I have contextual objections to the idea that Elder Centipede scales above the Association Building's entire durability and/or Metal Knight's full arsenal.
In particular, I highly doubt Metal Knight ever tested his entire arsenal at once and was somehow able to focus it on Centichoro's armor in a way that would even make the two things comparable. One thing to consider is that even when faced with a meteor threatening to wipe out multiple cities, Metal Knight simply tested out a few experimental missiles and then skedaddled. He's consistently extremely self-centered and only extending the bare minimum for things that don't directly benefit him. So it seems highly likely that whatever missiles he did test against Centichoro didn't represent the full theoretical capability of his arsenal which the HQ feat is referencing.
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- Thread starter
- #48
The issue with this stance is that it was never Bofoi's full arsenal that's being used to scale Elder Centipede. We know that Bofoi has several different robots with enough power to destroy the building as he literally did so to reconstruct the new one. What was referenced was his "remote controlled missiles and explosives." We know for a fact that this isn't the limit of Bofoi's arsenal and that he has far more powerful weapons at his disposal. It was specifically his lower tier weapons that were mentioned.
This is important because the Metal Knight robot itself is noted as being one of Bofoi's most prized weapons that won't go down easy. Because of this, I don't see why Bofoi's assessment that missiles flatout won't work against Elder Centipede through usage of the Metal Knight robot wouldn't be valing He even went on to say that he could develop better weapons than what he has access to now.
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Well, from a practical perspective, it could be as simple as missiles not being focused enough to penetrate something that hard.
Regardless the point stands that it's extremely skeptical that when Metal Knight claims to be unable to do anything that he's actually trying his hardest to confirm that, if not outright lying.
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- #50
Alright Damage, I re-checked the blog and numbers manually. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the formula for the surface area of a rectangular tank be:
It seems that the calculator I used somehow got a wayyy smaller number: 88677.9411 m^2.
Anyways, removing the base from that would give a formula of:
I've updated the blog to account for all of that. 7-B+, which is pretty similar to where Elder Centipede currently upscales from.
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Yes, that updated version is more correct for the calc. I also didn't notice the wrong formula being used earlier for the previous version of the surface area.
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- Thread starter
- #52
You can't really make this argument when in the following sentence he says that he can use Elder Centipede to develop better weapons. Was he lying about that? It's such a strange stance to take and assume here when nothing implies that he spoke those words for no reason. I mean he literally said the same thing about Lord Boros' ship after seeing the destruction the bullets caused. Was he lying about that too?
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Centichoro's carapace was extremely hard, probably harder than any individual material he had at the time.
I'm guessing that's what he meant.
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- #54
Yes but that brings us back to the original point since we now know that wasn't lying when praising Elder Centipede for being above missile weapons.
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Being able to be damaged with missiles doesn't make them useless for improving weapons due to hardness.
For example, presumably, if he included parts of their carapace in explosives the fragmentation would be more effective than before.
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- Thread starter
- #56
No that's not what I'm saying. His claim of Elder Centipede being above missiles while headquarters is not would be valid for scaling Elder Centipede. Your original argument of missiles not being focused enough would also apply to the large headquarters building so if that was the only thing stopping missiles from destroying Elder Centipede, then he'd surely be superior.
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The argument of not being focused enough would not apply to a large headquarters building, because most of the energy required to destroy it is due to it being very large, not its individual parts being extremely durable.
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- #58
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The old association is noted not to have any windows on it due to it being built tougher than most other shelters. But the new association building has plenty of windows on it; so it's not constructed exactly the same way across its entire surface area. Some of the structures that make up the new association HQ even resemble ordinary apartment blocks.
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- #60
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Strictly speaking that page doesn't say it is more "durable and sturdy" - though by virtue of being much larger than it was before it'll be harder to destroy, sure. It just says it was reconstructed and strengthened into an iron fortress. We see that Metal Knight created new defenses for the structure in the form of robot defenders.
But even if we grant that it is made of at least as durable materials as it was before, but doesn't mean the proposed scaling method is legit.
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- #62
The robot defenders weren't part of the defense at that point. It being larger doesn't make it more durable or stronger.
Regardless, scaling Elder Centipede to the old headquarters is fine.
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Hmm? Are you changing the proposal in the OP?
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Compared to a typical building, indeed.
But we're talking about comparing it to Centichoro here.
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- #65
...it tanked the explosion from Lord Boros' ship, which completely destroyed City-A
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- #66
I'm saying that he'd scale to the old headquarters too
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- Thread starter
- #67
@Damage3245 do you agree with this?
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I'll do another review of the evidence and get back to you on that in a day or so. I'll do a bit of rereading too.
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I think I'm fine with using the old headquarters.
It's a lot smaller and more likely to be directly comparable.
- 917
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so can the changes be applied to the character pages and the verse page?
- 917
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So why was the High 7A proposal removed?
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,489
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High 7-A came from the New HQ's Durability but he's getting scaled to the old one instead, the Old HQ's durability is 7-B+
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yes I understood but the feat is also valid for the new base of the association as Kachon said above not only for the old one
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- #76
The vote was slip 2-2. For the sake of the thread not dragging on this is fine. Especially when the debate is thinning out in terms of different and new arguments.
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the feat of destroying the new base of the association is still valid also because it is shown through that the feat of metal knight that scales together with the resistance of elder centipede therefore the proposal of Kachon of High 7A otherwise what was shown to us would not make sense if the destruction of the hero association and therefore the resistance of elder centipede only scales to the old one when it is shown that it is the new one
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just call other staff members or negotiate a "possibly" scaling IMO
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trivially if the resistance of elder centipede scales from the old base for what is shown to us it is also valid for the new one
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