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Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

Reinhard is finally ready to enter top 15 non smurf high 6A ig

First off we have meng qi at rank 14, Reinhard is 100x faster and could deal w him easily by sleep manipulation, knocking him out, or just AP stomping him till he stays permanently down (Let me know if he has a way to deal with this)

Next up are administrators who dont have a wincon in speed unequal and completely lose in speed equal


Jimmy Neutron wins in speed unequal and loses in Speed equal (Reinhard has better and faster wincons in speed equal)

Reinhard resists everything the beast from infamous has in rank 11

Byleth also has no way to permanently put down Reinhard while Reinhard could just put him to sleep or knock him out or kill him (he also resists time stop so his main gimmic is useless)

Rafaam loses due to speaking because Reinhard wont give him a chance to counter along with being faster. This puts him at rank 9 for now
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
Byleth also has no way to permanently put down Reinhard while Reinhard could just put him to sleep or knock him out or kill him (he also resists time stop so his main gimmic is useless)
Click to expand...
Just dropping in to say that Byleth has 13 charges of Time Manip (it's not just time stop) that allows him to reverse time when he/she dies, so like dying automatically triggers the Divine Pulse and sends Byleth back to the start of the fight. Reinhard has to kill them 14 times to advance.
Just saying.
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
Reinhard is finally ready to enter top 15 non smurf high 6A ig

First off we have meng qi at rank 14, Reinhard is 100x faster and could deal w him easily by sleep manipulation, knocking him out, or just AP stomping him till he stays permanently down (Let me know if he has a way to deal with this)

Next up are administrators who dont have a wincon in speed unequal and completely lose in speed equal


Jimmy Neutron wins in speed unequal and loses in Speed equal (Reinhard has better and faster wincons in speed equal)

Reinhard resists everything the beast from infamous has in rank 11

Byleth also has no way to permanently put down Reinhard while Reinhard could just put him to sleep or knock him out or kill him (he also resists time stop so his main gimmic is useless)

Rafaam loses due to speaking because Reinhard wont give him a chance to counter along with being faster. This puts him at rank 9 for now
Click to expand...
men already resist mental stuff and has 5B stuff.
 
Shadowslash125 said:
Just dropping in to say that Byleth has 13 charges of Time Manip (it's not just time stop) that allows him to reverse time when he/she dies, so like dying automatically triggers the Divine Pulse and sends Byleth back to the start of the fight. Reinhard has to kill them 14 times to advance.
Just saying.
Click to expand...
yeah that would be doable (not to mention he could also knock him out depending on what his intuition tells him is better)
It wouldnt be that hard
 
Cool, just speaking my piece as someone who knows Byleth but don't really do a whole lot of supporting for FE.
In fact, I just stumbled upon that statement, funnily enough. Haven't really touched this thread (minus a few lurkings) ever since Riders (even the tier 9s) became smurfs. Would've been more active here otherwise.
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
Reinhard is finally ready to enter top 15 non smurf Rafaam loses due to speaking because Reinhard wont give him a chance to counter along with being faster. This puts him at rank 9 for now
Click to expand...
Hahaha, funny your claiming Rafaam talks from 4 Kilometers out. He won't. Flapping his metaphorical gums is something he does WHEN HE CAN BE HEARD, and he has no way to know that guy 4 Kilometers off can hear him so he won't bother.

Also are you still arguing that Reinhard would do his massive AoE like a chaotic-evil psychopath and murder millions of people? Rafaam doesn't even do that and he screams about being an archvillain lmfao

Edit: I don't see a single thing in Reinhard's PnA that CAN'T be stolen. This is not looking good for the red-headed golden child of Re: Zero.
 
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DaReaperMan said:
Hahaha, funny your claiming Rafaam talks from 4 Kilometers out. He won't. Flapping his metaphorical gums is something he does WHEN HE CAN BE HEARD, and he has no way to know that guy 4 Kilometers off can hear him so he won't bother.

Also are you still arguing that Reinhard would do his massive AoE like a chaotic-evil psychopath and murder millions of people? Rafaam doesn't even do that and he screams about being an archvillain lmfao
Click to expand...
As the Sword Saint he would sacrifice anything to maintain the order
It was already clear to him, from the start. ――Reinhard would not go along with hostage negotiations.

Reinhard: [――――]

He was seriously concerned for Heinkel’s safety, he did not want to let Aldebaran, hostile as he was, die, and he was worried about his comrades, Flam and Ezzo, who yet remained in the Tower.

And all of that human compassion, he would be capable of gathering together and heartlessly sacrificing in order to protect the world’s equilibrium if necessity arose.

Reinhard would be able to sacrifice Heinkel, for whose safety he was seriously concerned; he would be able to slay Aldebaran, who he did not want to let die, hostile as he was; he would be able to abandon the comrades he was worried about, Flam and Ezzo, who yet remained in the Tower, leaving them to meet their deaths. ――The Sword Saint, was simply that sort of being.

Henceforth, only those individuals willing to sacrifice their own selves to protect the greater good could become the Sword Saint.
Click to expand...

However, this isnt really needed because its mach 200 vs mach 3700, Reinhard can run upto him and casually kill him
DaReaperMan said:
Edit: I don't see a single thing in Reinhard's PnA that CAN'T be stolen. This is not looking good for the red-headed golden child of Re: Zero.
Click to expand...
So he steals all of his skill stuff and...then what? Reinhard can still destroy him w the AP gap and he cant access any blessings due to a connection to the Od Laguna being a requirement which he wouldnt fulfill no matter what

It'd be like somehow stealing buff spells from the person being buffed, not the one casting since, again, Od Laguna is basically just loaning powers.

Good luck stealing anything from this btw:
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
As the Sword Saint he would sacrifice anything to maintain the order
Click to expand...
So he's Chaotic Evil, got it!

Also reading that, nowhere is it basically Reinhard killing an entire city to get what he wants.
Henceforth, only those individuals willing to sacrifice their own selves to protect the greater good could become the Sword Saint.
Click to expand...
That doesn't mean "He'll do this extremely evil action to kill one person"
SatellaTheWoE said:
However, this isnt really needed because its mach 200 vs mach 3700, Reinhard can run upto him and casually kill him
Click to expand...
You can happily go for a speed unequal spot, but Reinhard loses speed equal
SatellaTheWoE said:
So he steals all of his skill stuff and...then what? Reinhard can still destroy him w the AP gap and he cant access any blessings due to a connection to the Od Laguna being a requirement which he wouldnt fulfill no matter what
Click to expand...
So what does Reinhard do to someone with no skill? Because Rafaam? Yeah he'd steal ALL OF REINHARD'S SKILL AND SENSES. And his sword. And every other piece of equipment that is even slightly supernatural he's got. Reinhard wouldn't even have the Accelerated Development left to regain his skill at all, so he eventually tires out from trying to hit Rafaam lol
SatellaTheWoE said:
It'd be like somehow stealing buff spells from the person being buffed, not the one casting since, again, Od Laguna is basically just loaning powers.

Good luck stealing anything from this btw:
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like the Shadowlands, and the Light, and the Void, and-- Rafaam can seperate people from their pacts and steal those for himself. Priests and Paladins cannot cast their holy magic even if they have the full backing of the light if Rafaam steals their shit. Same goes for people who have the ability to cast Domination Magic.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Sounds a lot like the Shadowlands, and the Light, and the Void, and-- Rafaam can seperate people from their pacts and steal those for himself. Priests and Paladins cannot cast their holy magic even if they have the full backing of the light if Rafaam steals their shit. Same goes for people who have the ability to cast Domination Magic.
Click to expand...
Wielding DPs still depends on if the Od Lagna, fate, etc, fws you. It's not like Reinhard has any Contract with it, he's just beloved. If Reinhard's DPs were stolen they'd just immediately be regained (since multiple examples of a DP can usually coexist) and/or moved back from Rafaam to Reinhard (like how the Sword Saint DP behaves, or how Reinhard feared Wind Indication would work), unless the one stealing could control the Od Lagna or smthn.
 
Zabazab said:
Wielding DPs still depends on if the Od Lagna, fate, etc, fws you. It's not like Reinhard has any Contract with it, he's just beloved. If Reinhard's DPs were stolen they'd just immediately be regained (since multiple examples of a DP can usually coexist) and/or moved back from Rafaam to Reinhard (like how the Sword Saint DP behaves, or how Reinhard feared Wind Indication would work), unless the one stealing could control the Od Lagna or smthn.
Click to expand...
What you're basically describing is how WoW cosmology plays with its religious sorcerers. Like Paladins, Druids, Priests, DKs to an extent, etc. So yeah, this isn't anything special, though admittedly it does depend on if it's CM1, 2, or 3 and I'm fairly certain Re: Zero has cosmology shit to sort out just like WoW does so yeah.
 
DaReaperMan said:
I'm fairly certain Re: Zero has cosmology shit to sort out
Click to expand...
Not under MY watch. I'm not letting cosmology shit fly until we actually have a described cosmology (We're just a bit over half-way through the story, on arc 9 of 12). Od Lagna is important to it since it prevents it all from breaking but what that "all" is? We don't really know. Reinhard could be a smurf for all we know since we do know Od Lagna also enforces laws regarding the fabric of space and time, which would render him and any character with a DP or Authority illegal for this thread.
 
Zabazab said:
Not under MY watch. I'm not letting cosmology shit fly until we actually have a described cosmology (We're just a bit over half-way through the story, on arc 9 of 12). Od Lagna is important to it since it prevents it all from breaking but what that "all" is? We don't really know. Reinhard could be a smurf for all we know since we do know Od Lagna also enforces laws regarding the fabric of space and time, which would render him and any character with a DP or Authority illegal for this thread.
Click to expand...
Yeah, until it goes smurf on both ends we should PROBABLY assume Rafaam can steal it?

I mean WoW cosmology only isn't done because I refuse to touch this thing more than absolutely necessary.
 
Marchesa to 1st in 11-A

She pretty much stomp everyone below via sheer number and being able to throw 2-D nuclear bombs in everyone
 
So, since higher-dimensional hax officially isn't considered smurf anymore, shouldn't this list be redefined so that only 1-A and above things are counted as smurf? This would allow for more characters to be placed here.
 
DontTalkDT said:
???
Click to expand...
Okay, I'll rephrase. Since generic higher-dimensional hax isnt officially considered smurf potency anymore (it has to be shown to be concentrated onto a small area to qualify) shouldn't the OP be redefined so that only that kind of hax + 1-A and above things are counted as smurf? This would allow for more characters to be placed here.
 
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Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Okay, I'll rephrase. Since generic higher-dimensional hax isnt officially considered smurf potency anymore (it has to be shown to be concentrated onto a small area to qualify) shouldn't the OP be redefined so that only that kind of hax + 1-A and above things are counted as smurf? This would allow for more characters to be placed here.
Click to expand...
Abilities which can reach or affect structures greater than the area/container a character exists in. An example would include a baseline human being who can affect whole clusters of universes or a character that is physically Multiversal who can erase 16-dimensional (Hyperversal) structures.
Click to expand...
???
 
DontTalkDT said:
???
Click to expand...
Thats "smurf range", not potency. My suggestiont was to only consider smurf potency for the list since smurf range has no apparent meaningful distinction from how different range tiers usually work as they dont impact on the resistances that can be bypassed with it (because if they do, then it's just smurf potency at that point). The range is only "smurf" in name.
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Thats "smurf range", not potency. My proposal is to only consider smurf potency for the list since smurf range has no apparent meaningful distinction from how different range tiers usually work as they dont impact on the resistances that can be bypassed with it (because if they do, then it's just smurf potency at that point). The range is only "smurf" in name.
Click to expand...
Ok, but nothing has changed in that regard lately. Our official stance on that is the same as ever.
This thread just always treated range as part of what is smurf. Makes sense in my book, as otherwise you just get people hiding a smurf range away and hence being unkillable. That really doesn't seem less smurf than having smurf durability.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Makes sense in my book, as otherwise you just get people hiding a smurf range away and hence being unkillable.
Click to expand...
So, for example, a character who hides a High 3-A distance away from a character who only has 5-B range is fine, but a character that does it a Low 2-C distance away isn't? The latter really doesnt look "more smurf" than the other. The distinction seems arbitrary to me. But I guess it's up to the OP whether they feel like it or not.
 
Enter_Bluey said:
Keep rage
Click to expand...
Speech Bubble Hulk Sticker - Speech Bubble Hulk Roar - Discover & Share GIFs
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
So, for example, a character who hides a High 3-A distance away from a character who only has 5-B range is fine, but a character that does it a Low 2-C distance away isn't? The latter really doesnt look "more smurf" than the other. The distinction seems arbitrary to me. But I guess it's up to the OP whether they feel like it or not.
Click to expand...
It's the difference between being just far away (3D distance) and being away in terms of a whole different direction (higher D distance).
It's ultimately the same kind of distinction in regard to power. 5-B character with High 3-A power and 5-B character with Low 2-C power are also quite similar, but we draw the line at the dimensional difference.
(Also, technically Low 2-C range is kinda not smurf for this thread, because we allow time techniques and stuff in this thread, so attacks within the same timeline are basically ok as long as they don't cover the whole timeline)

I did think for a while that a separate thread where characters only were allowed to have stats up to the tier the qualify for would be cool as well, though. Like, a thread without 5-B characters that win by High 3-A power? Actually seems more like a non-smurf thread than this.
 
DontTalkDT said:
I did think for a while that a separate thread where characters only were allowed to have stats up to the tier the qualify for would be cool as well, though. Like, a thread without 5-B characters that win by High 3-A power? Actually seems more like a non-smurf thread than this.
Click to expand...
Yeah I personally find it quite strange that we don't consider higher tier stats as "smurf". It sounds kidna silly
"why is this guy the 3rd strongest 7-B character?"
"because he has an instantaneous omnidirectional 4-C attack effectively making him 4-C"

Like in a video game that would absolutely be considered a smurf. If a dude with 9000 trophies in a game had a 2nd account with 500 trophies or purposely dropped to that point, it would 100% be considered smurfing.
 
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It's being heavily contested, and I still don't see the OP updating the OG post to accommodate for it. We sure it is smooth sailing on that part now? Like I've been seeing two staff discussing about it here, and they're on both ends of the smurf spectrum.
 
Just so we're on the same level. We are talking about a change made in april.
And every hax that is smurf before is still smurf now. The only thing that arguably changed is that some niche hax that were priorly smurf in range and potency, are now only smurf in range.
E.g. if you can do a 5 dimensional cloud of poison that can kill humans in that area, but can't administer all the involved poison to a single human, then your poison doesn't have smurf potency. However, the poison cloud does still have smurf range, due to still being 5D.
So, in pratice, some smurf hax is just worse smurf hax now. As far as who gets to be in this thread goes nothing changed.
(Arguably that destinction already existed btw. It was just not spelled out as clearly)
 
DontTalkDT said:
Just so we're on the same level. We are talking about a change made in april.
And every hax that is smurf before is still smurf now. The only thing that arguably changed is that some niche hax that were priorly smurf in range and potency, are now only smurf in range.
E.g. if you can do a 5 dimensional cloud of poison that can kill humans in that area, but can't administer all the involved poison to a single human, then your poison doesn't have smurf potency. However, the poison cloud does still have smurf range, due to still being 5D.
So, in pratice, some smurf hax is just worse smurf hax now. As far as who gets to be in this thread goes nothing changed.
(Arguably that destinction already existed btw. It was just not spelled out as clearly)
Click to expand...
Isn't the main difference that the abilities that had smurf potency and now only have smurf range used to bypass lower dimensional resistances while now they don't? (Characters used to win battles just because of stuff like smurf conceptual hax that bypass even those with layered conceptual resistance)
Either way yeah higher-dimensional range still counts as smurf here
 
DontTalkDT said:
Just so we're on the same level. We are talking about a change made in april.
And every hax that is smurf before is still smurf now. The only thing that arguably changed is that some niche hax that were priorly smurf in range and potency, are now only smurf in range.
E.g. if you can do a 5 dimensional cloud of poison that can kill humans in that area, but can't administer all the involved poison to a single human, then your poison doesn't have smurf potency. However, the poison cloud does still have smurf range, due to still being 5D.
So, in pratice, some smurf hax is just worse smurf hax now. As far as who gets to be in this thread goes nothing changed.
(Arguably that destinction already existed btw. It was just not spelled out as clearly)
Click to expand...
I mean, since this is such a minor change, then why is this being contested and talked about like as if certain characters with smurf hax can return here?
 
YmTheSuper said:
Isn't the main difference that the abilities that had smurf potency and now only have smurf range used to bypass lower dimensional resistances while now they don't? (Characters used to win battles just because of stuff like smurf conceptual hax that bypass even those with layered conceptual resistance)
Either way yeah higher-dimensional range still counts as smurf here
Click to expand...
That distinction already existed for a while (e.g. for soul hax), just spelt out less clearly.
Shadowslash125 said:
I mean, since this is such a minor change, then why is this being contested and talked about like as if certain characters with smurf hax can return here?
Click to expand...
Oblivion is suggesting to change the rules:
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
My suggestiont was to only consider smurf potency for the list since smurf range has no apparent meaningful distinction from how different range tiers usually work as they dont impact on the resistances that can be bypassed with it (because if they do, then it's just smurf potency at that point). The range is only "smurf" in name.
Click to expand...
But it's not that any change in official ruling occured which would require changing the rules. But even if it's not required one can of course talk about changing them.
Accepting the suggestion would mean this thread would use a different definition of smurf than official pages, though, which is kinda awkward IMO.
 
Sung Jin-Woo for #9 in 6-C. None of the characters up to that point seem to have any way past incorporeality + low-godly regeneration / army of 6-Cs with the same abilities. Alongside Jinwoo's many instant win conditions like power sealing, memory erasure, pocket dimension BFR, existence erasure, etc.

Will probably make a match with others above that point since they might be more debatable.
 
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