DEATH BATTLE! Accuracy Scale [Part 10, The more things change, the more they stay the same]

[Abysswalker2126]

Can you show me where the First Firmament is rated as 2 layers into 1-A? I think it makes sense internally (M-Bodies are 1-A, Universal Eternity is 1 layer, Multi-Eternity is 2, First Firmament = Multi-Eternity, etc.,) but this isn’t stated on the cosmology page. It’s kinda annoying how important stuff like this is lost in the weeds and never clarified on pages…

IIRC Godzilla's is baseline. Meanwhile, Hulk's AP in 1-A ranges from baseline to 2 layers into 1-A (the latter comes from breaking chains made from the First Firmament, since even an amount of the First Firmament's energy small enough to fit in one's hand is enough to remake the multiverse).

His Type 4 Immortality, however, is High 1-A via scaling to the Below Place, which is the opposite of the High 1-A House of Ideas. So like DB concluded, Godzilla has no way to stop that respawn.

Hulks profile has no mention of High 1-A just Up to 1-A

 

[Abysswalker2126]

The First Firmament

The First Firmament is the earliest of all iterations of reality, having come to be at the very first stages of existence as a vast, conscious totality, existing as an infinite ocean of existence. Unlike its descendants to come, the First Firmament was not a multiverse, but a single, unbroken...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also 1-A
Beyond Dimesonal Existance type 2


Godzilla is type 3

 

[Eseseso]

Hulks profile has no mention of High 1-A just Up to 1-A

The One Below All is High 1-A and thus the Below Place scales.

The First Firmament

The First Firmament is the earliest of all iterations of reality, having come to be at the very first stages of existence as a vast, conscious totality, existing as an infinite ocean of existence. Unlike its descendants to come, the First Firmament was not a multiverse, but a single, unbroken...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also 1-A
Beyond Dimesonal Existance type 2


Godzilla is type 3

Marvel hasn't been updated to the new BDE standards yet.

 

[Eseseso]

Can you show me where the First Firmament is rated as 2 layers into 1-A? I think it makes sense internally (M-Bodies are 1-A, Universal Eternity is 1 layer, Multi-Eternity is 2, First Firmament = Multi-Eternity, etc.,) but this isn’t stated on the cosmology page. It’s kinda annoying how important stuff like this is lost in the weeds and never clarified on pages…

There's...a lot of stuff going on with Marvel, so it hasn't been updated. But in short:

M-Bodies are baseline, true universal selves are 1 layer, and the multiversal stuff is 2 layers, like you said.

 

[Osemere]

There's...a lot of stuff going on with Marvel, so it hasn't been updated. But in short:

M-Bodies are baseline, true universal selves are 1 layer, and the multiversal stuff is 2 layers, like you said.

I’m aware of the logic here, but I’m asking where this was accepted and indexed.

 

[Eseseso]

I’m aware of the logic here, but I’m asking where this was accepted and indexed.

Marvel Comics Cosmology (World Hierarchy) Revision

This was a long time coming and because of that I decided to move quickly with the changes. So, previously, established in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/j-m-dematteis-marvel-cosmology-split.169120/ So the main jist is to remove scans pertaining to the author “J.M. DeMatteis” and...

vsbattles.com

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

lol

I don't know how this will affect the verdict, BUT the Hulk doesn't even have enough range to reach "IT", even if his physicals are 1-A. Also at the same time, "IT" is way faster than the Hulk.

Hulk's stats:

Speed: Varies from Massively FTL+ combat speed, up to Infinite

Range: Extended Melee Range due to his size, Varies from Kilometers to Planetary with thunderclaps (Thunderclaps can reach up to Kilometers in every direction, by attacking the ground he can impact an entire planet), At least Interdimensional with Multilocation (Gamma Powered individual exist in the below place and the real world at same time)

Godzilla's stats:

Speed: Immeasurable ("It" is a being qualitively superior to countless-dimensional beings, views the past, future and present as dreams)

Range: Outerversal

 

[Zyurtunder13]

IIRC Godzilla's is baseline. Meanwhile, Hulk's AP in 1-A ranges from baseline to 2 layers into 1-A (the latter comes from breaking chains made from the First Firmament, since even an amount of the First Firmament's energy small enough to fit in one's hand is enough to remake the multiverse).

His Type 4 Immortality, however, is High 1-A via scaling to the Below Place, which is the opposite of the High 1-A House of Ideas. So like DB concluded, Godzilla has no way to stop that respawn.

So basically it's true, Hulk just wins as he should

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I don't know how this will affect the verdict, BUT the Hulk doesn't even have enough range to reach "IT", even if his physicals are 1-A. Also at the same time, "IT" is way faster than the Hulk.

Hulk's stats:



Godzilla's stats:

That speed difference is disgusting.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

That speed difference is disgusting.

Isn’t IT a realm though?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Isn’t IT a realm though?

No, IT is a character, not a realm.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

No, IT is a character, not a realm.

Hell in DOOM is also considered a living entity, does that mean it's a character?

 

[That_moron2]

Hell in DOOM is also considered a living entity, does that mean it's a character?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Hell in DOOM is also considered a living entity, does that mean it's a character?

We consider IT a character on the wiki.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Hell is also considered a character by the categories.

 

[SomebodyData]

Hell in DOOM is also considered a living entity, does that mean it's a character?

Tbf, most entities in tier 1 are realms, concepts, etc and characters, it's pretty standard

Also geez that range difference is disgusting

 

[TMaakkonen]

Hulk has AP but Godzilla Ultima has Immeasurable (vs Infinite) speed and better range. Theres also probably hax list we need to go through, so Im keeping HulkGoji at Iffy until we get to better conclusion and Goji supporters better not abandon that like Discord supporters lol

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Hulk has AP but Godzilla Ultima has Immeasurable (vs Infinite) speed and better range. Theres also probably hax list we need to go through, so Im keeping HulkGoji at Iffy until we get to better conclusion and Goji supporters better not abandon that like Discord supporters lol

By the way, since Death Battle used a composite Godzilla in their match against the Hulk, there is a draft of how the composite Godzilla profile would be if the composite rule wasn't a thing; it still lacks a lot of stuff, but it is a good start.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

there is a draft of how the composite Godzilla profile… it still lacks a lot of stuff, but it is a good start

Such as Spacegodzilla’s super gravity

 

[Sayuki_Mikaru]

By the way, since Death Battle used a composite Godzilla in their match against the Hulk, there is a draft of how the composite Godzilla profile would be if the composite rule wasn't a thing; it still lacks a lot of stuff, but it is a good start.

I can notice that there is tons of stuff left out from the composite Godzilla profile, like novels, video games, mangas, etc., so it would be nice if you could include those inn the future, but anyway, it is a nice job. Kudos to you.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Apex_Predator_GX

 

[Oiguana2701]

@Apex_Predator_GX

Well, we already discussed the accuracy of these youtubers in the Godzilla general discussion thread, here. I think it'd be good for you to take a look.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well, we already discussed the accuracy of these youtubers in the Godzilla general discussion thread, here. I think it'd be good for you to take a look.

I didn't see anything that directly debunks the scaling at all in the link provided

 

[Oiguana2701]

I didn't see anything that directly debunks the scaling at all in the link provided

What I posted doesn't say that that scaling is necessarily wrong, it's to show how Goji isn't a very reliable source a lot of the time.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What I posted doesn't say that that scaling is necessarily wrong, it's to show how Goji isn't a very reliable source a lot of the time.

If anyone is going to try and disprove that Bayverse Transformers is Uni+ or that Heisei Godzilla is 6-D, they shouldn't just accuse the scaler's character or simply say that they're inaccurate, the should give evidence to show how they are inaccurate

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

@Apex_Predator_GX

Hmmm…Months ago I talked to Ultima Reality about the 6-D Godzilla, and he thought it wasn't enough for that rating. According to Ultima, SpaceGodzilla manipulating supergravity isn't enough to scale him to anything.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I can notice that there is tons of stuff left out from the composite Godzilla profile, like novels, video games, mangas, etc., so it would be nice if you could include those inn the future, but anyway, it is a nice job. Kudos to you.

Thanks, bro!

The problem is that I don't have access to those novels, video games, and mangas. For example, some Godzilla mangas are really expensive, like the GMK manga, which I can confirm exists but is very rare even in Japan. Also, many Godzilla novels and video games are untranslated. There are huge amounts of good scaling stuff there, but I prefer to have some confirmations first.

 

[Sayuki_Mikaru]

Thanks, bro!

The problem is that I don't have access to those novels, video games, and mangas. For example, some Godzilla mangas are really expensive, like the GMK manga, which I can confirm exists but is very rare even in Japan. Also, many Godzilla novels and video games are untranslated. There are huge amounts of good scaling stuff there, but I prefer to have some confirmations first.

Even when lacking a lot of stuff, the composite Godzilla profile still has hundreds of powers. Imagine having it complete. It would be an insane beast to face in a fight.

 

[Divini]

By the way, since Death Battle used a composite Godzilla in their match against the Hulk, there is a draft of how the composite Godzilla profile would be if the composite rule wasn't a thing; it still lacks a lot of stuff, but it is a good start.

Even without the need of composite Godzilla, death battle's research was insufficient and honestly the death battle itself should have focused on more Godzillas than just Ultima

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Even without the need of composite Godzilla, death battle's research was insufficient and honestly the death battle itself should have focused on more Godzillas than just Ultima

I couldn't agree more. Also, GiH isn't the peak of Goji, completely ignoring all the feats of this incarnation. Speaking of GiH, DB rated the planet-busting explosion feat as just "planetary level" when it is at least Brown Dwarf level+.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Even without the need of composite Godzilla, death battle's research was insufficient and honestly the death battle itself should have focused on more Godzillas than just Ultima

I couldn't agree more. Also, GiH isn't the peak of Goji, completely ignoring all the feats of this incarnation. Speaking of GiH, DB rated the planet-busting explosion feat as just "planetary level" when it is at least Brown Dwarf level+.

Yeah, they only used his crossover with Hatsune Miku, but they didn't mention the new P&As that Godzilla has in that crossover, and he wasn't even shown using any of them in an actual fight. Also, I agree with Kiryu; putting aside more important crossovers, like the original Godzilla Marvel comics from the 70s, or even his fight with the Power Rangers, was weird.

 

[Divini]

Yeah, they only used his crossover with Hatsune Miku, but they didn't mention the new P&As that Godzilla has in that crossover, and he wasn't even shown using any of them in an actual fight. Also, I agree with Kiryu; putting aside more important crossovers, like the original Godzilla Marvel comics from the 70s, or even his fight with the Power Rangers, was weird.

Commenting on the Power Rangers part, even if they did mention that they have shown to be incapable of actually knowing or researching the franchise, so it wouldn't even matter to them

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Commenting on the Power Rangers part, even if they did mention that they have shown to be incapable of actually knowing or researching the franchise, so it wouldn't even matter to them

Yeah, their Power Rangers episodes weren't the best ones precisely because of their poor research regarding the Rangers. Like, I'm not afraid to admit that Kiryu shouldn't have won the fight with the Dragonzord. I know they used composites of both mechas in that episode, but Kiryu would only have won the fight if DB only used the Season 1 Dragonzord, but no, they used the Season 2 and onwards Dragonzord. Composite Kiryu is pretty OP, but he doesn't reach S2 Dragonzord's Low 2-C levels of power.

 

[Divini]

Yeah, their Power Rangers episodes weren't the best ones precisely because of their poor research regarding the Rangers. Like, I'm not afraid to admit that Kiryu shouldn't have won the fight with the Dragonzord. I know they used composites of both mechas in that episode, but Kiryu would only have won the fight if DB only used the Season 1 Dragonzord, but no, they used the Season 2 and onwards Dragonzord. Composite Kiryu is pretty OP, but he doesn't reach S2 Dragonzord's Low 2-C levels of power.

Even scaling aside, some information they used is pure headcanon. I am tired of hearing the whole "the grid uses sparks to absorb the damage" when that is not even what it is. They are also super lazy, saying "Scaling to other Rangers" would mean you'd scale them to many other high level feats but the feats mentioned are some of the most irrelevant ones. They did scale Jason to MCB despite the season 1 having many storm creating feats and monsters being blasted from moon to earth.

I know these episodes are "old now" but the research is still bad

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Even scaling aside, some information they used is pure headcanon. I am tired of hearing the whole "the grid uses sparks to absorb the damage" when that is not even what it is. They are also super lazy, saying "Scaling to other Rangers" would mean you'd scale them to many other high level feats but the feats mentioned are some of the most irrelevant ones. They did scale Jason to MCB despite the season 1 having many storm creating feats and monsters being blasted from moon to earth.

I know these episodes are "old now" but the research is still bad

Well, the Power Rangers and Godzilla are now part of the club of Death Battle's terribly researched characters.

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Well, the Power Rangers and Godzilla are now part of the club of Death Battle's terribly researched characters.

That's true.

 

[Divini]

Well, the Power Rangers and Godzilla are now part of the club of Death Battle's terribly researched characters.

we became twins now

 

[Da3ggman]

Godzilla fans when DB didn’t mention Godzilla’s 1978 crossover with Glubshitto (he gains the ability to create cans of spam, absolutely vital to the debate and animation):

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Godzilla fans when DB didn’t mention Godzilla’s 1978 crossover with Glubshitto (he gains the ability to create cans of spam, absolutely vital to the debate and animation):

lol

 

[TMaakkonen]

Tbh they probably thought that other stuff didn't help vs Hulk, so they werent mentioned.