Minor and (Hopefully) Simple Saint Seiya Fixes

[Hasty12345]

As a precursor to a much larger profile revamp for most of the verses main characters, there's a couple minor things that need addressing before the new profiles get released.

Lifting Strength​

Seiya's current profile has Class 100 lifting strength.... For no reason. None. Zero.

I have looked and looked and cannot for the life of me find a Class 100 lifting strength feat in the manga, or at least one I am able to calculate myself.

It should be removed and replaced with what I think should classify as Class 5: Seiya can assert 4000Kg's of force with his hands

I'm not pressed on what this actually quantifies to, I'm thinking it's Class 5 based on my understanding of the LS standards.

Edit: @Huesito88 argues it should be 8000kg due to the measurement being of each hand, this would be Class 10 LS.

This will replace the verses current Class 100 ratings that appear on most if not all the Saint profiles.

Speed​

Seiya and the low tier Saints (Bronze and Silver) have "upto high hypersonic" due to this calculation. I don't have a problem with the calculation, I'm sure it's mathematically correct, it's just a massive outlier. In the very next arc, Seiya is shown to be slower than (and then later comparable to) Silver Saints who are between Mach 2 and 5. So Black Saint Arc Seiya is blatantly not above Mach 5, and doesn't exceed Mach 5 until Gold Cloths and 7th Sense starts to get involved. Appropriate scaling will come in the next CRT when the profile gets a few more keys, but Aiolia makes it clear as day Seiya isn't Mach 25 narratively speaking.

As I said, the scaling ramifications will be in the next CRT, I just want to establish this calculation as an outlier so when its not on the new profiles, it's already been evaluated as an outlier.

Range​

Seiya currently has 4 Range keys, each with exceedingly higher ranges with 0 justification for any of them. Seiya, in a similar fashion to Kid Goku throws punches, granted, lots of them, but he's never shown a range further than a few meters. Seiya isn't the only one with these range issues, Shiryu, Hyoga, Ikki and Shun each have similar range statistics with no justifications. I propose we consider them invalid for lack of evidence.

I just wanted to invalidate these higher range values in the higher keys so when I drop the new profiles with different range stats we don't have to waste time on discussing them. The lower tier range (i.e., the several meters and standard melee range etc) are fine. Shun's chains will be dealt with in the next CRT however.

And that's pretty much it, hopefully nothing too controversial, the profiles as written are a complete mess, the next CRT will tidy them up, add in some long accepted scaling that should have been implemented a year ago and add in some more keys so we're not mashing together multiple arcs out of order.

Agree: @AlexZiggy, @Lynieryz, @AerrowStorm1, @StekFence, @ShakeResounding, @Kaiou1991, @Celestial_Pegasus. @Apex_Predator_GX

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[AlexZiggy]

Agree. These statistics are pretty outdated, from a time when the canon of the verse looked very different and standards were a lot more lax. Gut them and replace them with some actual numbers provided by the source material

 

[Lynieryz]

[Agree FRA ]

 

[AerrowStorm1]

As a precursor to a much larger profile revamp for most of the verses main characters, there's a couple minor things that need addressing before the new profiles get released.

Range​

I just wanted to invalidate these higher range values in the higher keys so when I drop the new profiles with different range stats we don't have to waste time on discussing them. The lower tier range (i.e., the several meters and standard melee range etc) are fine. Shun's chains will be dealt with in the next CRT however.

So for range, I do think it should should be noted he hit every string on Saori from the ground while she was flying high in the air from such a height Seiya shattered his arm catching her and Jamien was impressed. It's not MASSIVE distance in the range of AUs but his punches/blasts are ranged

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Other than that agree

 

[Hasty12345]

So for range, I do think it should should be noted he hit every string on Saori from the ground while she was flying high in the air from such a height Seiya shattered his arm catching her and Jamien was impressed. It's not MASSIVE distance in the range of AUs but his punches/blasts are ranged

Tens of meters with cosmo energy is on his profile, I'm changing everything above it, I'll add these scans to the new profile though, thanks.

 

[StekFence]

Yeah looks good, I was gonna nerf the LS myself

 

[Huesito88]

Range and Speed are fine. Deletion of the current lifting strength is fine, the current replacement value for lifting strength however still has additional leftover factors to consider.

Now the KG stated is one to one, so there is no problem there. However the thing here to consider is the wiki here has a person's total lifting strength be equal to what both hands can exert with their grip strength. Seiya 4000 kg is with one hand, Multiplying by 2 it's 8000 kg

Another additional factor is it could be argued Seiya was only using half his strength when he preformed this feat, which based on statements of Geki and the Seiya flashback happening on the same scene implies his lifting was also halved, but if you don't want to talk (argue that and leave it for later) about that. Then just leave it at 8000 kg

 

[Hasty12345]

Range and Speed are fine. Deletion of the current lifting strength is fine, the current replacement value for lifting strength however still has additional leftover factors to consider.

Now the KG stated is one to one, so there is no problem there. However the thing here to consider is the wiki here has a person's total lifting strength be equal to what both hands can exert with their grip strength. Seiya 4000 kg is with one hand, Multiplying by 2 it's 8000 kg

Another additional factor is it could be argued Seiya was only using half his strength when he preformed this feat, which based on statements of Geki and the Seiya flashback happening on the same scene implies his lifting was also halved, but if you don't want to talk (argue that and leave it for later) about that. Then just leave it at 8000 kg

I'll ask mods what they think is better in the OP, I'm indifferent, I just want there to be something based on evidence for the rating.

 

[ShakeResounding]

The word "Simple" in your Thread Title should be outside the second parenthesis, "Minor and Saint Seiya Fixes" does not read right

Agree with the OP btw, nice work

 

[Hasty12345]

HAHAHAHAAH I fixed it, thanks.

And thank you

 

[Huesito88]

I'll ask mods what they think is better in the OP, I'm indifferent, I just want there to be something based on evidence for the rating.

Alright, and well I thought it was worth mentioning for maybe for the possible future evidence of 1 to 1 increases being equal to 1 to 1 increases for lifting strength.

 

[Kaiou1991]

I agree, I can't believe half this stuff ever got accepted.

 

[Hasty12345]

Bump

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Saint Seiya profiles have been a mess for years.

I agree with this.

 

[Hasty12345]

Saint Seiya profiles have been a mess for years.

I agree with this.

Thank you for your input

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP seems reasonable to me.

 

[Hasty12345]

bump

 

[Hasty12345]

bump

 

[Hasty12345]

bump