Garou vs Reinhard (15-5-1)

[First_Witch]

"Faster than Infinity"

"A strike that ripples across all possible realities"

"Regenerated from absolute nothingness"

Among all the absurdities y'all have seen throughout fiction, somehow it’s rain dodging being a skill that you all have a hard time digesting. Y'all ain't fckn real

It matters because the subject matter demands that it matters. Skill exist ptecisly between the confinements of biomechanics and physics, step out of it and you dont have skill, period. Are you a skilled chess player if you shoot your opponent mid match? Obviously no, but why? Because the confines of chess are chess rules and a gun doesnt even exist inside those rules

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

If he cant get knocked out due to a DP waking him up, wouldnt this mean Garou has like no win cons

He never had one

 

[Phoenks]

If he cant get knocked out due to a DP waking him up, wouldnt this mean Garou has like no win cons

It would become inconclusive until Reinhard eventually loses stamina, since even if Garou ends up falling asleep, he'll just continue fighting while unconscious. He will also be so much stronger and faster than Reinhard that the skill debate isn't even relevant.

 

[Kachon123]

Garou FRA.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yeah I'm voting Garou for Phoenks' reasons

Grace started.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Are you a skilled chess player if you shoot your opponent mid match? Obviously no,

Should have predicted I'll shoot him, skill issue. Magnus Carlsen would never fumble that bad

 

[Zabazab]

Whether or not Saitama is skilled or not doesn't really matter he's still capable of calculating multiple next moves ahead.

He was shown to be dodging Saitama purely off his calculations and instincts despite Saitama having enough speed to just brute force his way through martial arts.

But Saitama continued to increase the amount of strength and speed he was using against Garou until it ultimately became pointless.

I think it matters quite a bit if he's predicting a normal guy with superhuman stats vs a fellow martial artist. A novice is much, much easier to read for obvious reasons.

Downplay of the feat. Just because some of the hairs are bound together doesn't change that fact. They're still tracking a significant amount of tendril attacks. If you want to divide it into hundreds instead, sure. But it's definitely not less than 70 lol.

It's not downplay, I'm observing the what is shown on the pages. He is not facing down hundreds of tendrils at once either, he's even got his back covered by two allies. Here's the scene again:

Subconscious understanding = Intuitive Understanding. There is no meaningful difference between those.

Being able to subconsciously counter something is no different than being able to intuitively counter something.

Instinct and intuition are linked quite closely, but one can be a result of input while the other is pure guesswork.

That's cool but it still doesn't really match 3 steps of prediction. Being able to predict the outcome of a fight while being outside the fight is not the same thing.

Three steps of prediction against a novice. But in any case you just ignored what I said; Wilhelm did not just predict a fight's outcome. The fight started, and Wilhelm said "Four moves", then after a clash "Three moves" etc, before defeating Yae with the fourth moves— if not for the hole she had prepped a while before the fight. This in spite of Yae being a shinobi who fights with a novel steel thread technique which Wilhelm has never encountered before, and Yae's specialty being to lay down trap after trap.

I mean, eventually this becomes never ending then because Garou will just continue to power-cliff Reinhard.

It could end with Reinhard using literally any weapon to space-slash Garou, since the attack can explicitly affect all directions at once.

It would become inconclusive until Reinhard eventually loses stamina, since even if Garou ends up falling asleep, he'll just continue fighting while unconscious. He will also be so much stronger and faster than Reinhard that the skill debate isn't even relevant.

Reinhard's stamina is such that he's "one who will never cease" in comparison to the Witch who "will never perish".

Stamina: Superhuman (Knights are trained to be able to endure serious injuries and keep fighting.[36] After defeating the Blue Lightning, and being impaled through his abdomen,[27] Reinhard was able to continue fighting[27] and went on to defeat the Beast of the End and the Admirer with his injuries. Transcendents such as Reinhard and Cecilus can fight and kill not only entire armies, but even an entire country.[36] Reinhard can stay awake for a week without tiring.[3] The pain of having both of his arms ruined could not even affect his complexion, and bleeding makes him stronger.[20] Even with his nearly torn off arms, Reinhard was able to swing his sheathed sword again and again in battle.[67] He can stalemate the Witch of Envy in an endless battle, between one who will never cease and one who will never perish[20])

 

[Phoenks]

Reinhard's stamina is such that he's "one who will never cease" in comparison to the Witch who "will never perish".

Then it is inconclusive shrug

Garou willl eventually just blitz and one-shot with stats. And Reinhard willl just be trapped in a loop of dying over and over. And when Garou gets tired he'll just keep fighting while unconscious, wake up, repeat.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Then it is inconclusive shrug

Garou willl eventually just blitz and one-shot with stats. And Reinhard willl just be trapped in a loop of dying over and over. And when Garou gets tired he'll just keep fighting while unconscious, wake up, repeat.

Are you switching votes to Incon? 7 pages for this conclusion is cooked

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Reinhard's stamina is such that he's "one who will never cease" in comparison to the Witch who "will never perish".

If you are implying that he has limitless stamina or smth you better get that revised, because it's Superhuman on the profile.

 

[Zabazab]

And when Garou gets tired he'll just keep fighting while unconscious, wake up, repeat.

He may sleep but he wouldn't get any rest. He'd still be afflicted with exhaustion due to never stopping and eventually be unable to move, unless the manga states Garou receives rest even while fighting in his sleep?

If you are implying that he has limitless stamina or smth you better get that revised, because it's Superhuman on the profile.

I know it's superhuman, I think that rating fits Reinhard better since he can still get tired, he just has DPs that will force him to keep chugging. He's still explicitly ceaseless according to his justification.

 

[Phoenks]

He may sleep but he wouldn't get any rest. He'd still be afflicted with exhaustion due to never stopping and eventually be unable to move, unless the manga states Garou receives rest even while fighting in his sleep?

Sleep is rest. Sleep is mainly a refresh of the mind. And he doesn't really have to worry about physical exhaustion when he has regeneration.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I know it's superhuman, I think that rating fits Reinhard better since he can still get tired, he just has DPs that will force him to keep chugging. He's still explicitly ceaseless according to his justification.

Does "force him to keep chugging" here means "The DP restores his stamina" or not?

He is either actually ceaseless and can fight endlessly or he isnt and will eventually get tired. Cant be both.

 

[MrTayman616]

I know it's superhuman, I think that rating fits Reinhard better since he can still get tired, he just has DPs that will force him to keep chugging. He's still explicitly ceaseless according to his justification.

I'm not sure if there are stated divine protections like that. (At least i don't remember any divine protection like that)

I always thought it was that he can regenerate and resurrect over and over that he can go on fighting endlessly rather than having infinite stamina.

 

[Epiccheev]

Ok, I'll just use your page.

Let's compare for real now.

Nice skill thread.
For Technique mimicry i'd also add Garou has copied a wide variety of techniques through multiple means, including martial arts with special requirements.
- He was able to copy Awakening breath from Bang wich is a breathing technique stat amp ala demon slayer while unconscious at the exact same timing as Bang to cancel his buff as it was done.
-Copied Exploding Heart Release Fist, wich is a technique that involves taking Manual control of your heart from a scroll he only took a few glances (Bang himself verbatim mentions he stopped him almost immediately after he started reading them)
- Was able to use a technique he never even saw or heard about (Roaring aura sky ripping fist) that required 2 master martial artists with extreme coordination and teamwork to perform (a.k.a Bang and Bomb) just by improving and completing the techniques with his latent knowledge and grasp of the flow.

For information analysis i'd also add
he's able to view the flow of vital energy through an opponent's body. Wich is how he pinpointed Sage Centipede's regeneration was powered by a specific organ as opposed to being a standard ability.(Chapter 158)

For Technique Mastery/growth speed i'd also add that
As far as we know, Fa Jin is Garou's original technique, since it's not mentioned among the techniques he copied and it was also developed mid fight as a way to counter an opponent he was unable to harm even exploiting weakpoints, and was then later evolved further as a long range technique a few fights later.
Not to mention pretty much all his growth from hero hunter to Full Monster was done in a week or so with very little rest.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Voting Garou, cause Re:zero author was high

 

[MrTayman616]

cause Re:zero author was high

That's actually accurate. He sometimes writes chapters while drunk, and still delivers peak.

 

[Phoenks]

Nice skill thread.
For Technique mimicry i'd also add Garou has copied a wide variety of techniques through multiple means, including martial arts with special requirements.
- He was able to copy Awakening breath from Bang wich is a breathing technique stat amp ala demon slayer while unconscious at the exact same timing as Bang to cancel his buff as it was done.
-Copied Exploding Heart Release Fist, wich is a technique that involves taking Manual control of your heart from a scroll he only took a few glances (Bang himself verbatim mentions he stopped him almost immediately after he started reading them)
- Was able to use a technique he never even saw or heard about (Roaring aura sky ripping fist) that required 2 master martial artists with extreme coordination and teamwork to perform (a.k.a Bang and Bomb) just by improving and completing the techniques with his latent knowledge and grasp of the flow.

For information analysis i'd also add
he's able to view the flow of vital energy through an opponent's body. Wich is how he pinpointed Sage Centipede's regeneration was powered by a specific organ as opposed to being a standard ability.(Chapter 158)

For Technique Mastery/growth speed i'd also add that
As far as we know, Fa Jin is Garou's original technique, since it's not mentioned among the techniques he copied and it was also developed mid fight as a way to counter an opponent he was unable to harm even exploiting weakpoints, and was then later evolved further as a long range technique a few fights later.
Not to mention pretty much all his growth from hero hunter to Full Monster was done in a week or so with very little rest.

Good additions yeah.

Though atp the match might just be a slugfest between unstoppable force and immovable object. Garou continues to grow until he massively out-stats Reinhard, and Reinhard continues to come back from death / KO via divine protections.

Even if Reinhard was to later obtain a sword / something capable of channeling his space hax, Garou would likely be too fast at that point. And he'd just end up dodging it and de-arming Reinhard again.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Let's compare for real now.

---

Analytical Prediction

Conclusion:

Both Garou and Reinhard are pretty similar, but I think Garou edges out in terms of quantification because of a couple of things. Reinhard's feats don't have enough added context to match up exactly.

While they can both anticipate opponent movements, Garou goes a step further because he is at minimum able to calculate at least 3 "steps" into the future (Working off of this scan), even against characters who can speed blitz him. For Reinhard, without such further statements, he would be limited to just the "next move," rather than the "next next move," and "next next next move" like Garou is.

While they can both observe and keep track of surroundings, Garou has an explicit quantity of thousands of attacks attached to his level of anticipation, while Reinhard's observation is more vague.

The fact that Reinhard has predicted invisible things is very impressive, but also isn't very notable regarding the potency of the AP. Rather, it shows that his mechanism of predicting itself might be a bit superior to Garou's, since he can anticipate things with less information.

---

Julius, with his training fit for dealing with all possible situations regardless of weapon, feinted Reid to jump backward so he could capitalize on it with a planned upward slash, only for Reid to have predicted his prediction (Hopeless stat difference notwithstanding.), even despite Julius spreading his mana presence in various directions

It's not always possible to fight with a familiar weapon in hand. I am confident in the training I've put in considering all sorts of situ-ations to be able to fight to the greatest extent possible, even without being able to choose my weapon.

"You're boring."

The man leaped backward with a yawn, easily avoiding the confi-dent, sharp thrust.

There was more distance between them now, but he followed with a lunge and confident footwork.

In combat, commenting on swordsmanship as a whole, what was important was not just control of the sword, but also balance and footwork, as well as the ability to know the perfect moment to close in with the perfect speed and form.

Therefore, when I began training in the sword, the very first thing ingrained in me was footwork.

I am confident I was blessed with a good master. There are many ways in which my master's swordsmanship pales in comparison to mine as it is now, but that is merely the result of the difference in our ages.

He was more skilled at nurturing the talents of others than at increasing his own. He was the sort of person who loved to talk about the history of the techniques, their development and inheritance, as much as he liked to practice them.

And naturally, I also enjoyed listening to him and thought it was an honor to be able to put them into practice.

"-"

He performed an attack aimed at exactly where the man would land.

There were perturbations in various directions, but the true goal was a slash upward straight from below.

"Right out of the manual, aren't you?"

It was a deadly arc, but the man easily nudged it to change its path with the sticks in his hand. It was an exchange that lasted not even one second. The man accomplished a feat as delicate as threading a needle, displaying an ability far beyond normal comprehension.- Volume 22, Chapter 5 page 144

While Cecilus's movements are being predicted by zombie Balleroy, he's still able to dodge his invisible mana balls with mere guesses. So their intuition alone is good enough to counter analytical prediction entirely.

Cecilus, running furiously, had hooked his hand around Al’s waist and was dragging him along in a swift sprint. And, hot on their heels as they became one with the wind――,

Al: [OIOIOIOIOIOI, what the hell, what the hell, WHAT IN THE ACTUAL HELL!?]

Amidst the illusion of being flung backward, Al’s vision was filled with city streets and building walls being pierced one after the other, as something tremendous pursued them with reckless abandon.

If his initial impression was correct, it was sniper fire. A sniper was chasing after Al and Cecilus.

Al: [Though if we’re being sniped, it’s an ironclad rule that snipers are supposed to stay put!]

They were supposed to patiently lie in wait, take aim once their target was in their sights, and strike with a fatal shot.

Those were the fundamentals of sniping, and ought to have been an ironclad rule. Yet, this sniper was defying all that, accurately pursuing the fleeing pair, and was even anticipating their moves to find cover, and firing accordingly.

It was as if they were surrounded by a hundred snipers, or being targeted by a single sniper with the complete freedom to move around at rapid speeds.

Cecilus: [Whoa! Woah there! Whoopsie!]

Al: [Bwah! Oof! Bit my tongue!]

While being targeted by this terrifyingly precise and agile sniper, Cecilus, while carrying Al, moved his body right, left, up, and down, all the while continuously evading the assault.

However, he did not seem to be looking at his surroundings at all. Then, Al realized. ――It was guesswork. Cecilus was dodging this top-class sniping by sheer guesswork alone.- Arc 8,

Ram tries to make her already invisible Wind Magic as unpredictable as possible by casting it out of sync with her own gaze and breathing, along with a feint attack just in case, only for Roswaal to easily detect and dissipate it anyway

The invisible attack bore down on the intended victims' legs with enough force to slice apart steel. She had deliberately cast the spell of out sync with her gaze and breathing, even adding in a feint attack for good measure. These were-

"_!"

"Surely this is not all you are caaapable of?"

With great ease, her enemy-Roswaal-stopped the invisible attack with a flick of his toes.

Seeing that happen and realizing the level of skill that was required to make it possible made Ram's throat freeze over. Dispelling magic by simply stomping on it was easier said than done. With the tips of his toes, Roswaal had rewritten the composition of the spell.

Through his Gate, he had altered the mana cast by another person without interfering with their Gate directly. Performing such an act in the middle of battle with one's life on the line was not the action of a sane person.- Volume 15, Chapter 6 pages 127-128

Instinctive Action

Garou:

• Water Stream Fist is a technique that enables him to move autonomously. It is a part of his composited martial art.
• Can fight while unconscious/asleep, which has allowed him to hold his own against stronger opponents like Darkshine and skilled opponents like Bomb & Bang. With Bang specifically being someone who also uses the Water Stream Fist and actively anticipates attacks.

Reinhard:

• Has multiple BS Divine Protections can give him insight into attacks he's never seen before + the intuition to avoid or counter those he has seen before.
• Capable of dodging rain on instinct. (Unquantifiable)
• Superior to people who can dodge 30+ nearly-invisible attacks. (This is not a case of instinctive action. Wilhelm was not acting autonomously)
• Fights without any delay between decision making and action.
• Scales above a lot of really good instincts showcased in the Re; Zero verse.

Conclusion:

I was originally going to say that Reinhard wins here, but honestly I am not so sure anymore. Reinhard's best thing is the rain feat but it's not logically possible and lacks explanation so it can't really be used to compare their skills to each other.

Without that, he still does have that really cracked ability to just counter things he's seen before on instinct, and even invisible things, but as I've gone over again and again, this is going to be limited to the scope of what he has understood in his own verse. Which is why we are comparing skills in the first place.

Reinhard being able to predict invisible things is a relative feat to Garou fighting while he's literally unconscious. Garou being literally unconscious might even be superior as his conscious is not receiving any information whatsoever in that state, and he's able to maintain that state for an extended period of time. His body is just fighting by itself with how much combat experience he's burned into it.

I think this one is a toss-up.

---

Emilia instinctually targets true form Shaula's weak point joint

Emilia combined her Ice Arts with Beatrice's purple missiles. The sound of the air freezing overlapped with the sound of frozen time shattering. The passage peppered with purple bolts hardened with an almost indescribable sound, drastically limiting where the scorpion could go with it's massive body. Leaping forward on pure instinct, Emilia formed her thinnest blade, made of delicate ice, and slashed.

"-"

With a sharp enough blade, a slash resembled the breeze. Whether or not that was actually something an ancient swordmaster once said or not, that's exactly what Subaru thought Emilia's sword sounded like. The joint connecting the scorpion's limb to the rest of it's limb was severed, and a green liquid splattered as the pincer fell. It landed with a heavy thud. This was the fruit of their struggle.- Volume 24, Chapter 5 page 175

involuntary movements like this and her later performance against Sphinx in Arc 8 come quite naturally to her, such as during her battle with the Madelyn-possessed Mezoreia; her instincts giving her a vision of her own death, with those of her "heart" telling her precisely which directions she could and couldn't dodge in, in this case, to block

――The moment the light was released, its power imbued with will, Emilia had a vision of her own Death.

Her competitive spirit was strong, she never lost hope under any circumstances.

For Emilia, who had strengthened her guts with that attitude, it had been a devastating thing.

Emilia: [――Ah.]

In her head, a small Emilia was screaming that she needed to move immediately.

However, her body would not respond with which way she should move, right or left. Even though she would usually move without thinking, she was unable to do so.

The reason for that was that her heart, rather than her head, had immediately sensed that there was no place to escape, be it right or left, be it forward or backward.

Emilia: [Icicle Line.]

So, instead of running away, Emilia had chosen to guard against it―― No, to deflect it.

She created a thick wall of ice in front of herself, which would make the light slide over its slanted surface. Whether she would indeed be able to pull it off or not, she would do it with the conviction that she had to do it.

When the Dragon’s breath had been loosened from Guaral’s skies, Emilia had immediately chosen the same manner of defense. However, Priscilla had been present at the time, and she had managed to cut through and disperse the light that Emilia had weakened, even if a little, with the red treasured sword in her possession.

This time, Priscilla was not there. Emilia was alone.

She did not know if she would be able to do the same thing. However, she had to accomplish the same thing.

Emilia: [Me, and the people behind me――]

At a glance, Emilia knew that there was no chance that the power of the light that had been released would blow away her and her alone.

Earlier, a light of a similar kind had been fired in the distance, but it only resembled this one. This light would assuredly sweep the battlefield whole, and destroy everything.

So――,

Emilia: [――Do your best, me.]

She braced her legs, created a wall of ice in front of her body, and tightly squeezed the sword of frost in her hand.

She had created the ice sword because Priscilla had used her treasured sword to cut through the breath. This ice sword did not hold power similar to the power the treasured sword held, but she had created it to give her good luck.

That, and Emilia’s bracing, where she put forth her all, was――,

Mezoreia: [Friggin’ disappear, human――]

The breath was released, and white light poured down, closing in on Emilia.

The fact that the voice had come forth from Mezoreia’s throat, the origin of the anger dwelling in its eyes, in that moment, she forgot all of it. She forgot, and braced herself.

And then, the moment when that breath obliterated the wall of ice, swallowing even Emilia――,

Emilia: [――Eh?]

After trying to align her ice sword with the light, Emilia’s eyes widened in surprise.

The light that had been emitted would have reached Emilia―― but instead, it had just slightly veered off to the side. Even so, an enormous shockwave was produced, almost tearing off Emilia’s silver hair and clothes.

While bracing herself and enduring it, Emilia looked at Mezoreia to see what had happened.

Mezoreia had released a breath, but its head was turned upwards and to the side.

It was not that it had changed its mind right before it happened. The orientation of its neck had been forcibly changed. ――Due to an impact from a deadly weapon that had struck it in the face from the side, the Flying Winged Blade.

Emilia: [That’s got to be what I threw over there…]

It was Madelyn’s weapon of choice, the Flying Winged Blade, which Emilia had accidentally hurled far away when trying to cast it right back at the former.

It had slammed into Mezoreia’s face. “No way”, Emilia said, her eyes widening.

Emilia: [Could it be that it now came back after I threw it?]

???: [Hahahahaha! That’s a really dreamy and wonderful thing to imagine! But, unfortunately, no! It was stuck over yonder, so I just kicked it off!]

Emilia: [Kyaa!?]

Having imagined a miraculous coincidence, Emilia was greatly surprised by the voice of a smooth-talking companion.

Once Emilia turned around flustered, she came to see the owner of the voice crouching down right beside her, staring fixedly at the ice sword in her hand.

???: [This is wonderful, quite the beautiful craftsmanship. I’ve been thinking that a legendary sword is what’s appropriate for me to carry around, but were I to carry things just for looks, I’d want to put this on my list of candidates.]

Emilia: [Uhhh, thanks?]

???: [No, no, if anyone should be saying thank you, it should be me.]

The person to whom that voice belonged―― was a boy with blue hair tied back, smiling cheerfully at Emilia, who had not expected to be praised in such a situation; hence, she thanked him out of reflex.- Arc 7, Chapter 100

Elsa pinpointed that the nearby passing dragon carriage was where Viktor Orcos was located

Elsa's role was to use the battle as a cover to infiltrate the building and take down the key parts of the enemy. However...

Elsa: [Oh, my.]

While Elsa scaled the back wall and searched for a passage to sneak in through, the rear entrance of the building opened and a dragon carriage rushed out right beneath her eyes.

A white dragon with a white canopy to disappear into the snow, just like the equipment of the Crimson Hunting Squad. The dragon carriage’s speed didn’t let up, instead accelerating to full speed away from the battlefield.

Elsa: [....]

Igor's forces weren’t particularly deployed in the direction of the dragon carriage's escape. Logres, clashing with the enemy in front, wouldn't be able to notice the carriage’s existence. If Elsa missed it, the dragon carriage would be able to escape without any hindrances.

The question was whether or not the dragon carriage was worth postponing the capture of the enemy territory.

Elsa: [...Well, I can think about it after I catch it.]

Even if gaining control of the battlefront was delayed a bit, Logres and the others would be able to hold out.

Elsa chose to follow her intuition rather than thinking. And her intuition ordered her to chase the dragon carriage.

Elsa: [....]

Normally, it would be nearly impossible for humans to catch up with a fleeing earth dragon on their own.

The dragon pulling the fleeing carriage was of the Aires species, which among ground dragons were the most suited for cold climates. They had scales the same color as their white fur, and they raced across the snow with their huge bodies, driving their claws into the snow in order to anchor themselves.

Humans who would get their feet stuck in the snow could never catch up. Elsa, despite rushing and running through the snow, was no exception. Therefore, Elsa followed a simple plan.

...If she couldn’t catch up with the fleeing earth dragon, then she wouldn’t allow it to escape.

Elsa: [....]

She held the blade aloft and threw it like a discus, swiftly sending it spinning at the fleeing ground dragon, cutting its thick neck in two from behind. Splattering scarlet blood onto the snow, the earth dragon failed to notice its own death as its head fell off. Immediately, the large frame of the earth dragon toppled over and the dragon carriage shook violently as it came to a halt.

Elsa: [Objective accomplished. As for what’s inside... ah.]- Red Snowfall on the Orcos Domain, Part 1

Beast form Garfiel can also instinctually sense and counterattack unseen threats behind him without looking

Still, the damage done to his body was severe, with his head split, the sensation of his body being stirred up from the inside beckoned for death to encroach on Garfiel’s life with every passing second.

A split head could be restored with healing magic. However, an “insect” was preventing the activation of it. Since the “insect” was not actually attacking, healing magic could not get rid of it either. In the first place, there was no time to use the healing magic, and with the interference of the “insect”, his head was split and the blood was, blood was, blood was, blood was.

Garfiel: [Gah, ough.]

Clenching his back teeth and holding on to his tenuous grasp on life, he stopped using his head.

Naturally, it was a split head. It could not be relied upon. What was needed was the instinct to live, to follow it, to move the body forcefully, and then.

And then, the Magic Stone Cannon that had been prepared on the wall, ready to intercept the enemy coming from outside the walls, he had swallowed the magic stone loaded inside it and crushed it in his belly.

Instantly, the mana that had been stored within swelled up inside Garfiel, burning the “insect”. Once the “insect” was burned, all that Garfiel was left with were fierce scars.

――No, it was just the wounds, and the enemy.

Otto: [Listen, Garfiel, please remember this well.]

Otto: [If they find out who we are and where we are from, it could lead to a very difficult diplomatic incident. For that reason, please avoid being provoked by the other side, and carelessly saying unnecessary things.]

Otto: [Though I do say that, since it is you, I am not expecting you to be so patient. I am not telling you to exchange words in a tit-for-tat as a merchant would. Therefore――]

Otto: [Therefore, make sure you properly remember this one thing.]

Otto: [If you get caught up in an exchange of words――]

Garfiel: [If, I got…]

Speaking inarticulately, while his rationality became dim due to the reflexive beastification to heal his severe injuries, what Garfiel heard endlessly in his brain were the words of someone akin to his older brother, the man he could count on in any situation.

Ahead of where he looked as he slowly turned around while being burned by the swaying flame, there was a fearsome enemy confronting him.

That enemy was needed.

To carry out what his older brother told him to do, an enemy was needed.

After all, he had said that to him. ――Otto Suwen had said that to Garfiel.

Otto: [――Make sure to beat that opponent up until their legs can no longer stand!]

Garfiel: [I’ll ******’ crush yaaa――!!]

The roar of the beast rose again, and the transformed Garfiel, now a raging beast, trampled and smashed as he soared across the ramparts. Upon witnessing such a display of might, the enemy in front of him―― Kafma opened his eyes and smiled.

Grinning, Kafma raised both of his arms overhead, and rushed forward.

Kafma: [Come, Garfiel Tinzel!!]

Garfiel: [AARHAAAAaaaaaaaa――!!]

The furious attack of the golden tiger, baring his fangs as he leapt in, crashed right through waves of purple thorns cramming his vision from directly opposite to them, and a crack was formed at the bastion on one of the star’s points.- Arc 7, Chapter 87

After falling down castle ramparts upon his skull being split open and his brain and other insides being gradually eaten by insects, Garfiel comes up with a plan to incinerate his own body from the inside with a magic stone to kill the insects within before transforming and climbing back up to Kafma, all paradoxically done on instinct alone

Still, the damage done to his body was severe, with his head split, the sensation of his body being stirred up from the inside beckoned for death to encroach on Garfiel’s life with every passing second.

A split head could be restored with healing magic. However, an “insect” was preventing the activation of it. Since the “insect” was not actually attacking, healing magic could not get rid of it either. In the first place, there was no time to use the healing magic, and with the interference of the “insect”, his head was split and the blood was, blood was, blood was, blood was.

Garfiel: [Gah, ough.]

Clenching his back teeth and holding on to his tenuous grasp on life, he stopped using his head.

Naturally, it was a split head. It could not be relied upon. What was needed was the instinct to live, to follow it, to move the body forcefully, and then.

And then, the Magic Stone Cannon that had been prepared on the wall, ready to intercept the enemy coming from outside the walls, he had swallowed the magic stone loaded inside it and crushed it in his belly.

Instantly, the mana that had been stored within swelled up inside Garfiel, burning the “insect”. Once the “insect” was burned, all that Garfiel was left with were fierce scars.

――No, it was just the wounds, and the enemy.

Otto: [Listen, Garfiel, please remember this well.]

Otto: [If they find out who we are and where we are from, it could lead to a very difficult diplomatic incident. For that reason, please avoid being provoked by the other side, and carelessly saying unnecessary things.]

Otto: [Though I do say that, since it is you, I am not expecting you to be so patient. I am not telling you to exchange words in a tit-for-tat as a merchant would. Therefore――]

Otto: [Therefore, make sure you properly remember this one thing.]

Otto: [If you get caught up in an exchange of words――]

Garfiel: [If, I got…]

Speaking inarticulately, while his rationality became dim due to the reflexive beastification to heal his severe injuries, what Garfiel heard endlessly in his brain were the words of someone akin to his older brother, the man he could count on in any situation.

Ahead of where he looked as he slowly turned around while being burned by the swaying flame, there was a fearsome enemy confronting him.

That enemy was needed.

To carry out what his older brother told him to do, an enemy was needed.

After all, he had said that to him. ――Otto Suwen had said that to Garfiel.

Otto: [――Make sure to beat that opponent up until their legs can no longer stand!]

Garfiel: [I’ll ******’ crush yaaa――!!]

The roar of the beast rose again, and the transformed Garfiel, now a raging beast, trampled and smashed as he soared across the ramparts. Upon witnessing such a display of might, the enemy in front of him―― Kafma opened his eyes and smiled.

Grinning, Kafma raised both of his arms overhead, and rushed forward.

Kafma: [Come, Garfiel Tinzel!!]

Garfiel: [AARHAAAAaaaaaaaa――!!]

The furious attack of the golden tiger, baring his fangs as he leapt in, crashed right through waves of purple thorns cramming his vision from directly opposite to them, and a crack was formed at the bastion on one of the star’s points.- Arc 7, Chapter 87

More proof on it being instinct:

There was no such thing as an “insect” that could live in a continuously burning body.

Kafma: [The thought of it is terrifying.]

Even if one could use healing magic, it could not kill “insects” with it. Instead, the “insect” needed to be removed in order for the magic to heal the wound.

This was the best way to break through that antinomy, but it seemed unlikely that he could think this up on his own.

Rather, it was probably the result of following instinct rather than thinking with one’s head.

If he had thought it through with his head, he would have never been able to swallow the magic stone and burn his body.- Arc 7, Chapter 89

We also have this feat of pure guesswork:

By watching Al fight just a single time, a young Cecilus was able to correctly guess that he possessed an Authority and what that Authority does through sheer intuition,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Arc_8,_Chapter_36-18"><span>[</span>18<span>]</span></a> and his intuition also correctly informed him that killing too many Zombies would be a bad idea.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Arc_8,_Chapter_41-27"><span>[</span>27<span>]</span></a> He single-handedly defeated every soldier in a Vollachian Fortress with just his bare-hands, all while ensuring he didn't kill anyone.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Brotherhood_of_Pleiades-24"><span>[</span>24<span>]</span></a> To advertise himself to a young Vincent Abellux, Cecilus slaughtered 200 warriors without allowing a single drop of blood to touch himself.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-71"><span>[</span>62<span>]</span></a> Cecilus possesses a perfect memory– he never forgets a place or object he has seen before.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Arc_8,_Chapter_57-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> He was also able to weave through a rain of invisible sniper-fire by sheer guesswork,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Arc_8,_Chapter_36-18"><span>[</span>18<span>]</span></a> and is said to possess the talent<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Arc_7,_Chapter_104-50"><span>[</span>50<span>]</span></a> to reach Reid Astrea's level of skill. He not only located and killed the mastermind of the Great Disaster before anyone knew what was even happening,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Arc_8,_Chapter_9-16"><span>[</span>16<span>]</span></a> he also then recognized that same enemy at a glance despite their appearance and soul changing,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cecilus_Segmunt#cite_note-Arc_8,_Chapter_64-44"><span>[</span>44<span>]</span></a> with him even noticing that their soul had changed.

Technique Mimicry

Garou:

• His signature ability. He's able to copy techniques he's seen at a glance and then merge them into his collective style of martial arts.
• As of this key, he has absorbed and merged at least 11 martial arts that he's copied together into one.
• He managed to merge Bang and Bomb's styles into one on his own, allowing him o use the "Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist," which is a technique that they, put together, could still barely pull off.
• Mastered the Exploding Heart Release Fist while unconscious, which is a technique that he gained a grasp of just by reading about it in an ancient scripture.
• He's able to use his composited martial art even while he's unconscious and similarly mimic techniques while he is unconscious.
• His copies improve on the originals.

Reinhard:

• More skilled than Marcos, who can absorb techniques into himself after experiencing them.

Conclusion:

I don't think it is surprising that Garou blows out Reinhard in this category, considering it is his main thing. Garou has copied multiple martial arts throughout the series and merged them together. Reinhard has no feats of merging techniques, only the presumed ability to copy them. He also has nothing on Garou doing things like this just by reading about them, or pulling them off in his sleep. And the martial arts that Garou copies are those than not even esteemed masters like Bang and Bomb can pull off at times. He EXCEEDS the capabilities of the people he steals the arts from.

Easy win for Garou in that category.

---

I actually believe Reinhard to be superior in even this since he is superior to the gluttony siblings who as analysed by custerwolf:

The Gluttonies are so skilled at sorting between and analyzing all of these skills and countless memories from hundreds upon thousands/tens of thousands of people (More on that later.) that they become instant masters of whatever martial technique Lunar Eclipse gives them access to; They don't even need Solar Eclipse to do it for them; what would be a lifeline for a lesser warrior is just a bonus for them

(For comparison, the average adult human brain can contain 2.5 Petabytes of memories, with no currently known upper limit.)

The knowledge and access itself come from using Lunar Eclipse to peruse the Stomach of Souls and the memories stored therein, but actually being able to make proper use of those memories' recorded moves all comes from their own raw talent, like Elsa instantly and flawlessly incorporating these weapons, fighting styles and even basic knowledge into their own

Rye was even able to do so with Subaru's post-transport memories and second-hand perspective of his shared Earth knowledge and helping Emilia invent Icebrand Arts, casually incorporating said knowledge to re-create it with not only Emilia's traditional weapons, but his own based on said mere knowledge and second-hand point of view memories, doing so only with ice creation from Fire Magic and only having eaten her Name, not even her own direct memories of inventing and using it and all it's variations

In Rye's own Elsa-adjacent case as covered not long ago, combining all these martial arts (Much like a certain hero hunter.), further still all martial arts in the world (Add another pin to the corkboard for part 2 of this blog.), into one, ultimate mixed martial art to call his own style; Quantity and quality in one package



Emilia and Julius were taking down Gluttony. Then...

"Icebrand Arts."

It was the second time he had heard that attack's name, but this time, the one who said it didn't have a silvery voice.

Gluttony was bleeding, but he was still composed, and that smirk never left his face. He had been the one to call out that attack name. An instant later, an ice spear thrust up from below Gluttony's feet. Julius cartwheeled to avoid it, while Emilia turned her spear into a hammer of ice and shattered the icicle with brute strength.

Even though the surprise attack had been blocked, the shock it brought didn't disappear.

"That was my-"

"Ha-ha! How does it feel getting a taste of your own special attack?! How is it, how do you like it, how does it feel, how?! Eat it all! Gluttony!"

Before Emilia could even get the words out, Gluttony drew another weapon of ice from the floor. The shape of it left Emilia and Julius confused, and left Subaru mind-boggled.

Because it was-

"A...a pile bunker?!"

"Icebrand Arts itself is Emilia's technique, but the one using it is us, who have eaten you, mister! Knowledge is a weapon! We're a high-IQ Archbishop, after all!" Gluttony turned the weapon from another world on Emilia and Julius. There was an explosion, and a stake shot out, violently forcing both of them to back away.

"Aaaahhh!!"

Sorasorasorasora, go, go, gogogogogogogo!!"

Laughing loudly, Gluttony summoned weapon after weapon that didn't exist in this world. Emilia and Julius caught themselves and got back in position to fight, but the change wasn't just in Gluttony's weapons. He freely adapted his fighting style to the weapons, forcing Emilia and Julius onto the back foot.

"His movements...can change this much?!"

Julius's shock was an expression of just how terrifying Gluttony could be in adapting other people's memories.

Emilia's technique that created weapons out of ice, combined with Subaru's otherworldly knowledge-that give birth to infinite possibilities.

On top of that, Gluttony had probably absorbed the lives of many warriors, effectively installing the fighting power of various mar-tial artists without any load times.

Because of that, just by pulling out the most effective memory from his stock, he could immediately become an expert with any weapon, freely blending offense and defense.- Volume 24, Chapter 4 pages 135-136

While Garou is only adding one or two at a time, the gluttony siblings add on thousands to tens of thousands of techniques.

General Martial Arts

Garou:

• Reached the epitome of martial arts in his verse, putting him above the likes of Bang & Bomb, who themselves have led prestigious dojos and have decades of experience in the arts.
• He has stolen and combined multiple martial arts together during his time in the verse.
• Many of his martial arts are more complicated than just punching and kicking, involving becoming one with the "flow," like the WSRSF and WICF. He also has things like air manipulation, deconstruction, and vibrations through some of his techniques.
• Capable of instinctively hitting people's pressure points to incapacitate them.

Reinhard:

• As the Sword Saint, his aptitude for the sword is increased to his natural limit. This puts him above everyone in the verse when it comes to swordsmanship, which is a very, very big scaling chain with plenty of masters who are better than mastery.
• His level of talent is unreachable by masters like Wilhelm no matter how hard they train. Although someone especially gifted like Cecilus was able to reach just one step below Reinhard in 3 years of training during an IF story.
• He knows like every weapon art ever because of his Divine Protections. It also makes him skilled with his hands.

Conclusion:

I'd give Reinhard the edge for his bigger scaling chain, however he is held back a lot in this match because most of his talents are reserved for swordsmenship, not hand to hand fighting.

---

Every single ability you see in Re:Zero can be performed by Reinhard due to his blessings. If anything, he has by far the most complex assortment of h2h combat techniques. This is obviously why he embarrases literally everybody in the verse aside from Reid.

The rain dodging feat for example shouldn't matter in a match where both characters are engaged in cqc and should only be argued as a point if Reinhard and the likes are pit against a ranged danmaku spammer with an absurd number of projectiles to boot.

nope, this has been used in cqc as well as shown with Olbart. Also, its not like their ability to dodge disappears in cqc. That would be stupid as hell

In every vs thread the supporters argue that the opponent cannot touch them at all because "dodged raindrops, grains of sand in a storm etc." however the truth is as admitted by them in their own arguments, Reinhard in reality cannot duck and weave everything, sometimes he has to counter even against opponents who are not close to infinitely transcendent skill gods like him. In hindsight, being unable to dodge and needing to counter already discredits a feat such as dodging raindrops and sand grains in a rain or sandstorm.

Nope, completely false. The only people he has ever been unable to dodge has been transcendents like Cecilus (Where he was nerfed in some way and still fought through and defeated Puck, Cecilus and Halibel all 3 are top 10 in the verse) or when he has been absurdly nerfed to his weakest point like in the augria sand desert and that was still against a god tier of the verse (volcanica) using the magic knowledge of Echidna (the smartest witch in existence) along with a time looper with an infinite loop ongoing.
Also, he doesnt need to dodge everytime. Just because i can do smth doesnt mean i always will especially when there isnt a need to. Its definetely not an anti feat considering he is the strongest in the verse.

Reinhard's DP's of first sight and second coming also fall under this. Just as Theresia's ability to see lines of battle that show her a surefire way to kill her opponent was useless against Wilhelm because there was no means for her to cut him down,

PoW Wilhelm outskills and outstats her. You do realize that right?

Reinhard eventually won't be able to avoid a skilled move from someone on or even close to his level. He'd to counter or be forced to take the attack.

You did have to prove their accuracy is good enough to hit someone who can dodge in a logic defying way as per your own words

The same applies to the DP of initiative, a skilled opponent can very well avoid his first assault as far as there's no supernatural thing beyond homing involved in it.

Law manipulation, its a constraint of the world that his attack will always land first. There hasnt been any feats that i can recall from memory that defy this.

These three DP's basically boil down to a toss up combining forms of precog, analytical prediction and instinctive action. E can still be ready and responded to by any opponent worth their own salt with these same abilities. The sooner the supporters understand that, the better it will be for everyone.

False, you are equating a weakness of the sword saint blessing to every other blessing that exists. Without any proof.

Now as for worthless takes, no one has an issue with rain dodging nor are we saying it is impossible when there's more impossible stuff happening in fiction. The problem arises from it being logically impossible to be performed purely through ones physical ability/sheer reflexes with no other powers involved. It ain't happening, they're better off adding shapeshifting, intangibility or what have you to the profiles than continuously trying to pass this off as skill. It's pure BS induced by whatever crack the author was smoking but that doesn't mean we take the same crack as well to whole heatedly eat it up.
Dodging rain and sand grains in storms, escaping attacks with no openings for escape, dodging attacks hundreds or thousands of times faster than you through sheer reflexes, mental calculations and compartmentalization with no form of supernatural abilities involved is logically impossible.

So is almost all other things in fiction, as worthless said above you tell that to any normal person and they would laugh.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Huge thanks to custerwolf, if anybody wants to look at the entire thing (and get a much better analysis of Re:Zero skill scaling) you can check out his blog:

Re:Zero: The Path to The Heavenly Sword

character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com

 

[First_Witch]

Just going to shamelesly plug my skill blog if you wanna have a proper skill debate. I didnt slave away writing it for nothing

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Good additions yeah.

Though atp the match might just be a slugfest between unstoppable force and immovable object. Garou continues to grow until he massively out-stats Reinhard, and Reinhard continues to come back from death / KO via divine protections.

Even if Reinhard was to later obtain a sword / something capable of channeling his space hax, Garou would likely be too fast at that point. And he'd just end up dodging it and de-arming Reinhard again.

Yeah i am here to hard disagree since if it becomes an unending match then Reinhard will always have the option of grabbing something and using his AoE spatial slash which range ***** garou

On that note, you still havent proven how garou will be able to hit him. call it whatever you want, skill or not. Rain dodging still exists.

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah i am here to hard disagree since if it becomes an unending match then Reinhard will always have the option of grabbing something and using his AoE spatial slash which range ***** garou

You do realize Garou can blitz people he was relative to after fighting them for 1.3 milliseconds? If it becomes an "unending match" then Reinhard ain't ever hitting Garou after a couple of minutes. Even if he gets his AoE Garou will just predict it, dodge it, and then get rid of the sword so he can't do it again.

Just going to shamelesly plug my skill blog if you wanna have a proper skill debate. I didnt slave away writing it for nothing

I mean, I basically mentioned all of this without even reading the blog. Not like it is a concrete thing, anyways.

 

[MrTayman616]

then get rid of the sword so he can't do it again.

He doesn't have to, the sword disappears after he uses it.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You do realize Garou can blitz people he was relative to after fighting them for 1.3 milliseconds? If it becomes an "unending match" then Reinhard ain't ever hitting Garou after a couple of minutes. Even if he gets his AoE Garou will just predict it, dodge it, and then get rid of the sword so he can't do it again.

Reinhard would already **** Garou up by that point in cqc

 

[Phoenks]

Reinhard would already **** Garou up by that point in cqc

Except he's less skilled so that's not happening either.

And even if he did do that, Garou would literally still just stat cliff him lmfao. He has regeneration in this key so he's just morph into a stronger form and then beat up Reinhard regardless.

Also if Reinhard did actually have better techniques, Garou would just instantly copy them or adapt to it. Most of his development as a martial artist happens in a couple of days, and especially in the 1 day when he goes to the surface.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Except he's less skilled so that's not happening either.

And even if he did do that, Garou would literally still just stat cliff him lmfao. He has regeneration in this key so he's just morph into a stronger form and then beat up Reinhard regardless.

Also if Reinhard did actually have better techniques, Garou would just instantly copy them or adapt to it. Most of his development as a martial artist happens in a couple of days, and especially in the 1 day when he goes to the surface.

So are you gonna ignore everything i wrote or actually reply to my message above

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Reinhard fra

 

[Phoenks]

So are you gonna ignore everything i wrote or actually reply to my message above

None of it is particularly relevant, so I felt no need to reply. Also, Reinhard does not have the same power/technique mimicry abilities as Gluttony, btw. He just scales above them in overall skill, but that aspect is unique to the gluttonies iirc. Not really a Flow Method thing.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Voting Garou, cause Re:zero author was high

Is this an actual vote?

 

[Kachon123]

I mean, this version of Garou has precog and can jump all the way to space. I really don't see him getting hit by a spatial slash.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

None of it is particularly relevant, so I felt no need to reply. Also, Reinhard does not have the same power/technique mimicry abilities as Gluttony, btw. He just scales above them in overall skill, but that aspect is unique to the gluttonies iirc. Not really a Flow Method thing.

Reinhard explicitly have access to all techniques that exist in the world, its just that he never has a need to use them, adding onto this the fact that since he is so overwhelmingly superior to the others he should have the ability to combine techniques like they do as well. This is in that blog too, superior characters having the knowledge or ability to copy the moves or vice versa.


i did previously think that maybe the gluttonies are separate and might even be Reinhard tier in skill but arc 9 has made it explicitly clear that he isnt transcendent level at all.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is this an actual vote?

Yes

I agree with Phoenks

 

[Kachon123]

Reinhard explicitly have access to all techniques that exist in the world, its just that he never has a need to use them, adding onto this the fact that since he is so overwhelmingly superior to the others he should have the ability to combine techniques like they do as well. This is in that blog too, superior characters having the knowledge or ability to copy the moves or vice versa.


i did previously think that maybe the gluttonies are separate and might even be Reinhard tier in skill but arc 9 has made it explicitly clear that he isnt transcendent level at all.

Unfortunately this is just a Garou upscale. One glance at Reinhard and it's over. Garou has fusionism. Reinhard can have all of the techniques in the world, but when Garou is able to fuse all the techniques into a single technique, it's just not comparable.

Garou's RE also applied to the potency and precision of his techniques to go further and further into transcendent mastery (levels beyond skill gods like Bang)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Huge thanks to custerwolf, if anybody wants to look at the entire thing (and get a much better analysis of Re:Zero skill scaling) you can check out his blog:

Re:Zero: The Path to The Heavenly Sword

character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com

here to add on this:

A preliminary nutshell; Blog/Part 1 explores the main concepts and abilities; Part 2 covers the "normal" martial stuff with list and skill tier list breakdown stuff, along with a lotta cool historical MMA trivia on the side I learn about and like sharing; Part 3 is entirely dedicated to just the series' dura neg and copying of it; Part 4 covers stamina and endurance-related stuff; Part 5 covers aura stuff, Part 6 covers all the other miscellaneous abilities and Part 7's just a collection of every single light feat in the series I kept for posterity in spite of my retirement

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Unfortunately this is just a Garou upscale. One glance at Reinhard and it's over. Garou has fusionism. Reinhard can have all of the techniques in the world, but when Garou is able to fuse all the techniques into a single technique, it's just not comparable.

lmao, this is irrelevant because Reinhard has that too but at a much greater potency, 10,000+ techniques merged into one vs Garou adding abilities one at a time

Garou's RE also applied to the potency and precision of his techniques to go further and further into transcendent mastery (levels beyond skill gods like Bang)

even pre arc 6 Julius increased the potency of his attacks and techniques, Reinhard will already have mastered everything to its fullest extent which in the first few miliseconds before Garou can outpace him will be fatal and lead to a complete and utter loss

Especially when you factor in rain dodging levels of intuition "hax" based on "skill in the verse", you cannot deny it being real kachon

in fact, any votes against Reinhard based on rain dodging not being "real" shouldnt be counted considering that it is a practical ability which has been something that has been in use for basically the entirety of the show, you did have to prove that being not combat applicable in an entire crt of its own

 

[Kachon123]

Regurgitating long debunked arguments isn't going to make you any less wrong.

 

[MrTayman616]

in fact, any votes against Reinhard based on rain dodging not being "real" shouldnt be counted considering that it is a practical ability which has been something that has been in use for basically the entirety of show

No one is saying that he didn't actually do it. They're saying that it's not quantifiable.

Let's say Reinhard is inferior based on literally every type of skill but he can dodge rain while the other person can't. You literally can argue it being higher since it's an impossible feat, but it is worthless since it's not even quantifiable.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Regurgitating long debunked arguments isn't going to make you any less wrong.

your "debunking" doesnt matter because its accepted on the profiles, go make a crt about it. Until then rain dodging is completely valid

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

No one is saying he didn't actually do it. They're saying it's not quantifiable.

Let's say Reinhard is inferior based on literally every type of skill but he can dodge rain while the other person can't. You literally can argue it being higher since it's an impossible feat, but it is worthless since it's not even quantifiable.

that is the point? it doesnt matter if its not possible for the other party to bypass it in some manner, that is a limitation of the other character to not be able to have that level of potency. Unless otherwise disproven in any meaningful way, rain dodging makes Reinhard and the rest of the transcendents essentailly untouchable via normal martial arts unless the opponent has similar levels of bs