Metal Bat 7-A Durability and 7-A Human Garou Upgrade

[Farfetchedx]

Metal Bat's AP is currently rated as 7-A, while his durability is only 7-C, possibly High 7-C. His durability should pretty blatantly scale to his AP, since he doesn't suffer any damage while swinging with full force. He also wouldn't be able to defend against 7-A attacks for 3 minutes, like what is stated in the in the AP justification, without his durability scaling as well. Even if he blocked the attacks with his indestructible bat, he would've still gotten destroyed by the shockwaves of CK punches.

Conclusion:
Metal Bat's durability should be upgraded from 7-C, possibly High 7-C to 7-A. Character's like Hero Hunter Garou and those scaling to him, would also be upgraded from 7-C, possibly High 7-C to 7-A.

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree, not sure why durability so much lower. Think there was an update but someone forgot to update durability.

 

[Farfetchedx]

How many staff votes are needed for this. It's a simple upgrade that will affect quite a few profiles.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

At least 2, 3 if staff says so.

 

[MrTayman616]

I agree, not sure why durability so much lower. Think there was an update but someone forgot to update durability.

He's hurt by characters of that AP consistently. He got beat up by Garou, who'd get one shotted by his weapon. Garou obviously doesn't scale in terms of AP and durability as he gets one shotted if he gets hit and is shocked by it's power to the point his hands were shaking just from deflecting his attacks, yet he consistently damaged him and defeated him. It doesn't make sense for his durability to scale to his AP imo.

I disagree with the thread.

 

[Farfetchedx]

He's hurt by characters of that AP consistently.

Like who?

He got beat up by Garou, who'd get one shotted by his weapon. Garou obviously doesn't scale in terms of AP and durability as he gets one shotted if he gets hit and is shocked by it's power to the point his hands were shaking just from deflecting his attacks, yet he consistently damaged him and defeated him. It doesn't make sense for his durability to scale to his AP imo.

I disagree with the thread.

Metal Bat's power was rapidly increasing due to Garou hitting and damaging him relentlessly. There's nothing to prove that Metal Bat could one-shot Garou at the earlier parts of the fight. We also don't know if metal bat's durability grows at the same rate as his strength

 

[MrTayman616]

Metal Bat's power was rapidly increasing due to Garou hitting and damaging him relentlessly. There's nothing to prove that Metal Bat could one-shot Garou at the earlier parts of the fight

It doesn't matter, either earlier or latest. How is Garou still damaging him while his latest at that moment is that strong? His AP = Durability doesn't make sense imo.

We also don't know if metal bat's durability grows at the same rate as his strength

That basically means he'll destroy himself by the same argument you propose, which we know it isn't the case based on his fight against Sage Centipede.

His durability should pretty blatantly scale to his AP, since he doesn't suffer any damage while swinging with full force.

 

[Farfetchedx]

It doesn't matter, either earlier or latest. How is Garou still damaging him while his latest at that moment is that strong? His AP = Durability doesn't make sense imo.

The only time we can say that Metal Bat was capable of one-shotting Garou, was at the very end(which Murata had to confirm). After that, Garou didn't really do anything to him.

So they were fighting with comparable stats(Metal Bat obviously stronger because of Fighting Spirit, but still comparable) up until Garou landed this move(likely a special move, possibly a dura-neg move), which badly damaged Metal Bat and boosted his fighting spirit so high he could one-shot Garou here.

That basically means he'll destroy himself by the same argument you propose, which we know it isn't the case based on his fight against Sage Centipede.

Not really, his attack could grow slightly faster, but still comparable.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

The only time we can say that Metal Bat was capable of one-shotting Garou, was at the very end(which Murata had to confirm). After that, Garou didn't really do anything to him.

So they were fighting with comparable stats(Metal Bat obviously stronger because of Fighting Spirit, but still comparable) up until Garou landed this move(likely a special move, possibly a dura-neg move), which badly damaged Metal Bat and boosted his fighting spirit so high he could one-shot Garou here.

Not really, his attack could grow slightly faster, but still comparable.

I think the problem is that Garou is 7-C/High 7-C right now. If you want to upgrade all the people who are also scaling to Garou, then this should be more clear and also absolutely a 3 vote thread.

 

[Eseseso]

Disagree, his bat's durability should just have a 7-A minimum

 

[Farfetchedx]

I think the problem is that Garou is 7-C/High 7-C right now. If you want to upgrade all the people who are also scaling to Garou, then this should be more clear

I want to upgrade Metal Bat's durability, which would result in a couple characters being upgraded(I made that clear in the OP). MrTayman616's reasoning as to why it shouldn't be upgraded is just wrong(that's the problem). He's claiming that Garou was badly damaging Metal Bat while Metal Bat had the power to one shotted him, which makes the notion of Metal Bat's durability being comparable to his attacks wonky. But like I said, Metal Bat only had the power to one-shot Garou after the fight, which was caused by the last hit that Garou did. So Metal Bat and Garou would have been fighting with comparable 7-A stats until Garou hit him with the last move, which was so crazy, it pushed metal bat to that one-shot range.

Disagree, his bat's durability should just have a 7-A minimum

Ok, explain how he uses said bat to attack with 7-A force and not destroy his body, and how he could withstand the shockwaves of Carnage Kabuto's punches.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

I want to upgrade Metal Bat's durability, which would result in a couple characters being upgraded(I made that clear in the OP).

I would consider this to be burying the lede. In addition to Metal Bat, this would upgrade at the very least:
Watchdog man
Genos
Garou
Tanktop Master
Iaion
Okamatachi
Bushidrill
Spring Mustachio
Fubuki
The Mercenaries
Evil Natural Water
Bug God
Royal Ripper
Senior Centipede (I think? At least some aspect would be upgraded)
G5
Rhino Wrestler
Do-S
Demonic Fan
Showerhead
Devil Long Hair

(And possibly these guys, but since they scale from Post G4 Genos, I'm not actually sure they would be affected so you can probably ignore them. I put them here just in case: Sonic, Suiryu, Bakuzan, G4, Gale Wind, Hellfire Flame, Awakened Cockroach, Face Ripper, Choze)

(Some of these profiles are outdated, but the scaling means they should've been updated before and would be updated by this change)

I'm not saying whether or not this CRT is correct or incorrect, but I think we should be more clear on just how many characters this will affect as opposed to just a couple of characters. This is a pretty big revision covering over 20 characters at least and absolutely a 3 staff vote CRT.

 

[Eseseso]

Ok, explain how he uses said bat to attack with 7-A force and not destroy his body, and how he could withstand the shockwaves of Carnage Kabuto's punches.

Shockwaves aren't the same as enduring the full force of the punch

 

[Recon1511]

Metal Bat's durability is incredibly inconsistent to really be used for scaling, he can endure a massive beating from Sage Centipede but at the same time be badly hurt by Senior Centipede and that random flower monster lol

 

[Farfetchedx]

I would consider this to be burying the lede. In addition to Metal Bat, this would upgrade at the very least:
Watchdog man
Genos
Garou
Tanktop Master
Iaion
Okamatachi
Bushidrill
Spring Mustachio
Fubuki
The Mercenaries
Evil Natural Water
Bug God
Royal Ripper
Senior Centipede (I think? At least some aspect would be upgraded)
G5
Rhino Wrestler
Do-S
Demonic Fan
Showerhead
Devil Long Hair

(And possibly these guys, but since they scale from Post G4 Genos, I'm not actually sure they would be affected so you can probably ignore them. I put them here just in case: Sonic, Suiryu, Bakuzan, G4, Gale Wind, Hellfire Flame, Awakened Cockroach, Face Ripper, Choze) Actually I'm pretty confident they don't scale, but I'll keep them in the comment just in case I need to pull them up.

(Some of these profiles are outdated, but the scaling means they should've been updated before and would be updated by this change)

I'm not saying whether or not this CRT is correct or incorrect, but I think we should be more clear on just how many characters this will affect as opposed to just a couple of characters. This is a pretty big revision covering over 20 characters at least and absolutely a 3 staff vote CRT.

Tbh, the last major revision and many others did not list every single character affected, so I didn't thought it would be a problem now

Shockwaves aren't the same as enduring the full force of the punch

Never said they were. But shockwaves over 3,000x stronger than someone's durability should kill them.

You also forgot to explain how Metal Bat is able perform 7-A attacks

Metal Bat's durability is incredibly inconsistent to really be used for scaling, he can endure a massive beating from Sage Centipede but at the same time be badly hurt by Senior Centipede and that random flower monster lol

That's not an inconsistency. It just means that Senior Centipede(The flower monster did not damage Metal Bat if you actually go back and look) would scale to Metal Bat's base durability, and Metal Bat simply grew to Sage Centipede's level, which is how we list it on the profile. Garou had a similar situation, where he grew many times tougher to withstand Rover's attack. Yet we never say Garou's durability is inconsistent.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Tbh, the last major revision and many others did not list every single character affected, so I didn't thought it would be a problem now

I get that and I don't think you need to list out all the characters either, I was just using that as proof that this is a major revision. But I think at the very least, you should've put Garou in there and said Metal Bat, Garou and everyone scaling to them (Because most people are scaling from Garou and it's just easier to understand)
The last revision even had this part

• Gouketsu and those relative + Lord Boros' ship full bombardment go from 6-B to 6-B+
• Elder Centipede downscales from the energy value per bullet of Lord Boros' Ship to High 6-C from 7-A
• Bang and Bomb scale to half of this High 6-C > (Majority of the Cadre, majority of the S-Class Heroes) <

So yeah. This isn't a requirement though, it's just how I feel about it. I also decided to list out all the characters because I noticed some were outdated and figured if this passes (or even if it doesn't), those characters could be updated too.

As for the thread itself, after a bit of thought, I'm not wholly against having base Metal Bat be 7-A in Dura, as the VGC couldn't take into account his fighting spirit, though I'm not sure if that meant his fighting spirit wasn't applied or if it was just not applied well. I also don't have any opinion on the amount of characters that would be updated from this change. For now, I'm neutral, leaning towards agree.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Also, somewhat unrelated, but you should consider adding more tags to the CRT lol

 

[MrTayman616]

The only time we can say that Metal Bat was capable of one-shotting Garou, was at the very end(which Murata had to confirm). After that, Garou didn't really do anything to him.

He literally did. Or the blows right before the last one where even Garou's bones were shaking just from deflecting his attacks and saying it might've ended just from one hit.

So they were fighting with comparable stats(Metal Bat obviously stronger because of Fighting Spirit, but still comparable) up until Garou landed this move(likely a special move, possibly a dura-neg move), which badly damaged Metal Bat and boosted his fighting spirit so high he could one-shot Garou here.

You're basically creating feats so it might make sense. Also one shot difference would give one shot durability based on that. Even if you say his AP and Durability isn't the same but just comparable, it would still be the same thing.

Garou of that moment literally says it might've ended if he landed even one hit, says it before his last attack.

Not really, his attack could grow slightly faster, but still comparable.

Then you literally disagree with your own comment.

Metal Bat's power was rapidly increasing due to Garou hitting and damaging him relentlessly. There's nothing to prove that Metal Bat could one-shot Garou at the earlier parts of the fight. We also don't know if metal bat's durability grows at the same rate as his strength

 

[Farfetchedx]

He literally did.

Garou didn't damage him here. Metal Bat was already dripping with blood, and Garou simply knocked him down, to which Metal Bat easily got up from. If your logic is that knocking down someone momentarily = damaging them, then you're basically saying that Garou damaged Darkshine here, or that Bang damaged him here.

Or the blows right before the last one where

Like I've been saying, Garou was still comparable here, and Metal Bat was only able to one-shot him after this attack. The attack clearly did a number on Metal Bat, which means he got an extremely large boost from it.

even Garou's bones were shaking just from deflecting his attacks and saying it might've ended just from one hit.

His hands shacking from deflecting the attacks isn't proof of a one-shot difference, and Garou said that "a solid blow might have hurt."

You're basically creating feats so it might make sense. Also one shot difference would give one shot durability based on that. Even if you say his AP and Durability isn't the same but just comparable, it would still be the same thing.

Garou of that moment literally says it might've ended if he landed even one hit, says it before his last attack.

They weren't at a one-shot difference when Garou damaged him. Garou simply said that a solid blow from Metal Bat might have hurt. You are using a fan translation as opposed to the official translation.

Also, I don't appreciate you claiming that I am creating feats to prove my stance. Everything I stated is in the manga for you to read and comprehend.

Then you literally disagree with your own comment.

Please explain

You also haven't tackled any of the points in the OP. So your interpretation is not only wrong, as it falsely claims that Garou was damaging Metal Bat while Metal Bat had a one-shot advantage, but it also doesn't explain how Metal Bat is able perform 7-A attacks without destroying his body, or withstood the shockwaves from Carnage Kabuto's punches.

Considering everything, Garou and Metal Bat would have been fighting with comparable 7-A stats up until Garou hit him with this last move, which was so powerful, it pushed Metal Bat to that one-shot range.

 

[MrTayman616]

Garou didn't damage him here. Metal Bat was already dripping with blood, and Garou simply knocked him down, to which Metal Bat easily got up from. If your logic is that knocking down someone momentarily = damaging them, then you're basically saying that Garou damaged Darkshine here, or that Bang damaged him here.

Reactionless Darkshine with "I got no damage" vs "BWUH" from Metal Bat when he gets hit.

Like I've been saying, Garou was still comparable here, and Metal Bat was only able to one-shot him after this attack. The attack clearly did a number on Metal Bat, which means he got an extremely large boost from it.

That's not accurate. "Comparable" Garou says this before Metal Bat did the last attack.

He wasn't comparable to him in terms of AP. Or he's shocked that someone comparable to him in terms of strength has such power that his bones were shaking when he deflected them with Fist of Flowing Water? and that it'd be bad if he got hit even once.

His hands shacking from deflecting the attacks isn't proof of a one-shot difference, and Garou said that "a solid blow might have hurt."

That's not what Garou says at all. "It might have ended up ugly" is a claim of defeat or immense injury based on the context.

They weren't at a one-shot difference when Garou damaged him. Garou simply said that a solid blow from Metal Bat might have hurt. You are using a fan translation as opposed to the official translation.

Official translation have been shown to be unreliable countless times. They're shown to cut out many lines from the pages and sometimes even mistakes about who talks.

Also, I don't appreciate you claiming that I am creating feats to prove my stance

Sry

as it falsely claims that Garou was damaging Metal Bat while Metal Bat had a one-shot advantage

"BWUH", or "AGH" if you wanna go with Viz translation. Does he look like he tanked the attack while having a one shot difference in that panel?

but it also doesn't explain how Metal Bat is able perform 7-A attacks without destroying his body, or withstood the shockwaves from Carnage Kabuto's punches.

Inconsistent durability. Also both cases comes from his bat.

 

[Shiraito983]

I agree

 

[Farfetchedx]

Reactionless Darkshine with "I got no damage" vs "BWUH" from Metal Bat when he gets hit.

"BWUH", or "AGH" if you wanna go with Viz translation. Does he look like he tanked the attack while having a one shot difference in that panel?

Him making those sounds doesn't mean he took damage. Simply getting knocked down would cause that. Most people make sounds/shout when falling down.

Inconsistent durability.

The only reason you say it is inconsistent is because Senior Centipede and Garou was able to damage him. But that should just mean they scale.

Also both cases comes from his bat.

What? He's the one swinging the bat. It's not like his bat is some magical weapon that amplifies his stats like Atomic Samurai's Sun Blade. Also, how is a bat suppose to defend you against shockwaves?

 

[DragoZeroNova]

What? He's the one swinging the bat. It's not like his bat is some magical weapon that amplifies his stats like Atomic Samurai's moon blade. Also, how is a bat suppose to defend you against shockwaves?

*Sun Blade

 

[Recon1511]

This ***** up the scaling so bad lol

 

[Farfetchedx]

This ***** up the scaling so bad lol

How so? The only things that would change are the 7C, possibly High 7-C characters, who would get upgraded to 7-A. It does put a good amount of characters above Vaccine and Beefcake, but I don't see anything that would contradict it.

Heck, Kachon123 attempted something similar, and he's the one who made the scaling chain lol.

 

[MrTayman616]

Him making those sounds doesn't mean he took damage. Simply getting knocked down would cause that. Most people make sounds/shout when falling down.

Definitely doesn't look like that here.

The only reason you say it is inconsistent is because Senior Centipede and Garou was able to damage him. But that should just mean they scale.

Garou himself is shocked by the power he has. He didn't show anything that would make him scale to Metal Bat in terms of AP in that whole fight.

What? He's the one swinging the bat. It's not like his bat is some magical weapon that amplifies his stats like Atomic Samurai's Sun Blade. Also, how is a bat suppose to defend you against shockwaves?

No one claims it's some magical weapon. Also Shockwaves? It can easily be that the Author regards it as "blocking an attack". Also we don't even see the fight to begin with. All we have is "Metal Bat attacks him many times, lasts three minutes, he gets hit, it's over"

How so? The only things that would change are the 7C, possibly High 7-C characters, who would get upgraded to 7-A. It does put a good amount of characters above Vaccine and Beefcake, but I don't see anything that would contradict it.

Heck, Kachon123 attempted something similar, and he's the one who made the scaling chain lol.

Those just applies to Post-Superfight Genos's beams and Senior Centipede's durability, which doesn't even add a new scaling to Genos nor any other character.

Anyway, we're just repeating ourselves. At the very least, i'm not convinced. I won't say anything if the staff agrees with it though.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Can the bat get 7-A durability at least?

 

[MrTayman616]

Can the bat get 7-A durability at least?

That bat is "indestructible". It's durability scales even beyond Sage Centipede's AP.

 

[Recon1511]

How so? The only things that would change are the 7C, possibly High 7-C characters, who would get upgraded to 7-A. It does put a good amount of characters above Vaccine and Beefcake, but I don't see anything that would contradict it.

Heck, Kachon123 attempted something similar, and he's the one who made the scaling chain lol.

We literally made an exception for Metal Bat because his durability is so inconsistent it massively ***** up the scaling chain

 

[MrTayman616]

We literally made an exception for Metal Bat because his durability is so inconsistent it massively ***** up the scaling chain

He blocks a hit from Sage Centipede while not having fighting spirit with his bat. Yet gets one shotted after getting hit and tanks it via fighting spirit. His durability doesn't seem to scale to the attacks he stops with his bat.

It's just inconsistent.

 

[Recon1511]

Like no dude, we are not scaling half the cast above Beefcake and Vaccine Man because Metal Bat's inconsistent durability made him be harmed by base Hero Hunter Garou and two random demon level monsters.

 

[MrTayman616]

Like no dude, we are not scaling half the cast above Beefcake and Vaccine Man because Metal Bat's inconsistent durability made him be harmed by base Hero Hunter Garou and two random demon level monsters.

Relying on his scaling + making his durability scale to the attacks he can handle with his bat literally makes those characters scale to at least 6-A.

I mean it's a Boros upgrade, so it's hard to refuse but it's just too much :d

 

[Farfetchedx]

Definitely doesn't look like that here.

Ok, agree to disagree

Garou himself is shocked by the power he has. He didn't show anything that would make him scale to Metal Bat in terms of AP in that whole fight.

Being shocked by someone's power doesn't suggest that they can't be comparable

No one claims it's some magical weapon.

That's basically what I got from you replying with, "both cases comes from his bat," to me asking how is it possible for Metal Bat to swing a bat with a force over 3,000x his durability

Also we don't even see the fight to begin with. All we have is "Metal Bat attacks him many times, lasts three minutes, he gets hit, it's over"

It's either he tanked the hits himself, or blocked them with his bat, which would create massive shockwaves from the impact. There's no other assumptions really

Those just applies to Post-Superfight Genos's beams and Senior Centipede's durability, which doesn't even add a new scaling to Genos nor any other character.

No, he was literally saying that Tank-Top Master was equal to Metal Bat, and we know that Garou would scale from TTM.

Anyway, we're just repeating ourselves. At the very least, i'm not convinced. I won't say anything if the staff agrees with it though.

Ok

We literally made an exception for Metal Bat because his durability is so inconsistent it massively ***** up the scaling chain

If this “we” includes Kachon, then why was he trying to scale tank top master to metal bat, which would scale garou and the rest to 7-A. I'm confused

 

[MrTayman616]

No, he was literally saying that Tank-Top Master was equal to Metal Bat, and we know that Garou would scale from TTM.

I meant that the reasoning wasn't accurate and it's "currently" like this.

Seemingly the current application is like what i said, not the first.

Those just applies to Post-Superfight Genos's beams and Senior Centipede's durability, which doesn't even add a new scaling to Genos nor any other character.

 

[Damage3245]

For reasons mentioned above regarding messing up the scaling chain, I currently disagree with this upgrade.

I've also got a thread being prepared to downgrade Metal Bat but might take me a little while to get that finished.

 

[MrTayman616]

I've also got a thread being prepared to downgrade Metal Bat but might take me a little while to get that finished.

Stay away, don't touch the goat

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ok, explain how he uses said bat to attack with 7-A force and not destroy his body

The bat absorbs most it before it can damage his arms

and how he could withstand the shockwaves of Carnage Kabuto's punches.

Surface area

 

[Farfetchedx]

The bat absorbs most it before it can damage his arms

If that were true, his body wouldn't be feeling the effect of his strikes

Surface area

Surface area attacks that would produce shockwave



Also, to address the “inconsistencies” of Metal Bat’s durability. Metal Bat’s fighting spirit is like Garou’s reactive evolution, where it allows their durability to instantly skyrocket to survive attacks several times greater than them.(eg. Garou tanking Rover’s blast that was sure to kill him). The 2 powers have been compared more than once. The only difference is that Metal Bat is temporary while garou's is permanent.

The growth Metal Bat gets from fighting spirit goes away when he’s not taking hits/fighting. And of course, endurance matters; tanking one 6-A hit isn’t the same as tanking multiple 7-A hits

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If that were true, his body wouldn't be feeling the effect of his strikes

That kinda corroborates the point. His bat is indeed absorbing it, leaving only a trembling effect to his arms even after going all out (the bat would've broke if it couldn't withstand the energy)

Surface area attacks that would produce shockwave

Surface area reduces the effect of the shockwave, correct. The energy his body can take doesn't necessarily scale to the full output of the initial attack.

The rest I can't comment on, since I don't follow the series closely (which is also while I haven't voted, just explained how these instances doesn't necessarily need direct scaling to his durability, as surrounding circumstances provide enough explanation to why he wouldn't have to)