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Two 8-As with much higher tiers than their Physicals fight.

Ruby_R_Dracula

Ruby_R_Dracula

She/Her
Messages
5,143
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2,110


Rules:
-Speed is equalized
-Distance is 1 Km
-Makima is given knowledge of Salem's status
-Battle takes place in a abandoned city

Makima: @GodEarh206, @GunshyFever, @Ms.Luzifer
Upscales from 550 Tons of TNT Physically which also upscales from 443.66 Tons of TNT.
Usage: 1,000 Years upscales to 5.5 Kilotons from her physicals.
Upscales from 128.18 Kilotons of TNT which scales to 100/28ths of the Gun Devil's 28% Emergence, with her Telekinesis
Upscales from 2,549.918 Metric Tons

Salem: @koopa3144, @Anonymous_Learner, @Catbowtie, @Robo432343, @Spinoirr, @Fallen_Angelicx
Upscales 249.48 Tons of TNT Physically, up to 407.54 Gigatons with Magic
Upscales 45,053,554.25752 Metric Tons physically
Scales to 2,270,869,563 Metric Tons with Magic

Hope this ain't a stomp, for who? idfk, haven't watched RWBY
 
Last edited:
Basically every single Makima match.
Does Makima's opponent resist mind hax? No? Conquest frame one lmfao.
 
Arkansalter2 said:
Basically every single Makima match.
Does Makima's opponent resist mind hax? No? Conquest frame one lmfao.
Click to expand...
I was literally thinking about you ******* saying that.

anyways by all means, look at Salem's Appearance, she does not look normal and maybe that alone would probably make Makima not control her first thing. but if you keep mentioning it, might as well give Makima knowledge of Salem's status
 
Ms.Luzifer said:
I was literally thinking about you ******* saying that.

anyways by all means, look at Salem's Appearance, she does not look normal and maybe that alone would probably make Makima not control her first thing. but if you keep mentioning it, might as well give Makima knowledge of Salem's status
Click to expand...
BFR demon lol.
 
I was planning to do this smh. Prepare to hear from my lawyers
Salem's profile doesn't have crazy good scans, so I'ma do the best with what is there and what I remember.

Both can one-shot each other, but Salem has better regeneration since hers isn't limited to the 126.1 million lives in Japan. So in theory, if it just came down to who can outlast, Salem should have an advantage. Both do have ways around the others' regen to in, however, with Makima having a lot more options to do so. Makima can BFR with the Hell Devil or the Eternity Devil, madness manip her with Cosmo, or turn her into a doll with Santa Claus. While Salem also has a few, destroying Makima's soul, Apathy Grimm, and maybe freezing Makima completely with ice, Makima overall has a lot more ways to counter regen.

Salem should be able to avoid Hell Devil BFR by turning intangible, but she doesn't have a good way of escaping the Eternity Devil's pocket dimension. She might be able to cause it pain til it offers her its heart like Denji did, or use her SI to talk the devil into giving up, but since Makima's controlling the Eternity Devil here, SI might not work. Dollification might not work on Salem or the Grimm due to them not being human, but if it does, Salem can prob avoid it by becoming smoke. With all that being said, Makima's best wincon is Cosmo since Salem doesn't resist her ability, and it's quick and easy to use. Salem's best bet around it is prob having Apathy Grimm immobilize her before she can use her ability or by having a Grimm one-shot her, but with how fast Cosmo can use All-Out Halloween, it's gonna be hard to do so.

Makima doesn't resist having her soul absorbed by Salem or the Grimm. Considering Salem can control 1000's of Grimm and Makima's habit of not avoiding attacks, she might have her soul destroyed by one of the stronger, random Grimm attacking her (It's also worth noting that Makima prob can't control Grimm since Salem is already taking full control of them). Makima also doesn't resist Emp Manip from Apathy Grimm, which can quickly leave her and whoever she summons completely drained of will and immobilized. Complete freezing prob won't work since it is an attack and thus can be transferred to some citizen.

Overall, I think I'm leaning towards Salem since she has slightly better ways around Makima's wincons. While Makima doesn't have many ways around Salem's main wincons of herself or a Grimm absorbing Makima's soul or incaping Makima with Apathy Grimm.
 
koopa3144 said:
I was planning to do this smh. Prepare to hear from my lawyers
Salem's profile doesn't have crazy good scans, so I'ma do the best with what is there and what I remember.

Both can one-shot each other, but Salem has better regeneration since hers isn't limited to the 126.1 million lives in Japan. So in theory, if it just came down to who can outlast, Salem should have an advantage. Both do have ways around the others' regen to in, however, with Makima having a lot more options to do so. Makima can BFR with the Hell Devil or the Eternity Devil, madness manip her with Cosmo, or turn her into a doll with Santa Claus. While Salem also has a few, destroying Makima's soul, Apathy Grimm, and maybe freezing Makima completely with ice, Makima overall has a lot more ways to counter regen.

Salem should be able to avoid Hell Devil BFR by turning intangible, but she doesn't have a good way of escaping the Eternity Devil's pocket dimension. She might be able to cause it pain til it offers her its heart like Denji did, or use her SI to talk the devil into giving up, but since Makima's controlling the Eternity Devil here, SI might not work. Dollification might not work on Salem or the Grimm due to them not being human, but if it does, Salem can prob avoid it by becoming smoke. With all that being said, Makima's best wincon is Cosmo since Salem doesn't resist her ability, and it's quick and easy to use. Salem's best bet around it is prob having Apathy Grimm immobilize her before she can use her ability or by having a Grimm one-shot her, but with how fast Cosmo can use All-Out Halloween, it's gonna be hard to do so.

Makima doesn't resist having her soul absorbed by Salem or the Grimm. Considering Salem can control 1000's of Grimm and Makima's habit of not avoiding attacks, she might have her soul destroyed by one of the stronger, random Grimm attacking her (It's also worth noting that Makima prob can't control Grimm since Salem is already taking full control of them). Makima also doesn't resist Emp Manip from Apathy Grimm, which can quickly leave her and whoever she summons completely drained of will and immobilized. Complete freezing prob won't work since it is an attack and thus can be transferred to some citizen.

Overall, I think I'm leaning towards Salem since she has slightly better ways around Makima's wincons. While Makima doesn't have many ways around Salem's main wincons of herself or a Grimm absorbing Makima's soul or incaping Makima with Apathy Grimm.
Click to expand...
Does Salem resist getting mind controlled frame one by Makima?
If not, Salem's wincons don't matter and this matchup will have to have some changes in order for it to work
 
Anonymous_Learner said:
Does Salem resist getting mind controlled frame one by Makima?
If not, Salem's wincons don't matter and this matchup will have to have some changes in order for it to work
Click to expand...
She does yes, when she was human she resisted direct exposure to the mind hax her Grimm are capable of causing
 
Even so, I don't see any mention in Salem's profile of her resisting Mind Manip, if so then maybe she should have a CRT before applying it to matches
 
Salem fra

I mean, she won't go for mind control immediately via what op said, like Makama is in character here
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Have...

Have there even been any arguments for how Salem wins...?
Click to expand...
I think all of them are mostly going off

what koopa said
koopa3144 said:
I was planning to do this smh. Prepare to hear from my lawyers
Salem's profile doesn't have crazy good scans, so I'ma do the best with what is there and what I remember.

Both can one-shot each other, but Salem has better regeneration since hers isn't limited to the 126.1 million lives in Japan. So in theory, if it just came down to who can outlast, Salem should have an advantage. Both do have ways around the others' regen to in, however, with Makima having a lot more options to do so. Makima can BFR with the Hell Devil or the Eternity Devil, madness manip her with Cosmo, or turn her into a doll with Santa Claus. While Salem also has a few, destroying Makima's soul, Apathy Grimm, and maybe freezing Makima completely with ice, Makima overall has a lot more ways to counter regen.

Salem should be able to avoid Hell Devil BFR by turning intangible, but she doesn't have a good way of escaping the Eternity Devil's pocket dimension. She might be able to cause it pain til it offers her its heart like Denji did, or use her SI to talk the devil into giving up, but since Makima's controlling the Eternity Devil here, SI might not work. Dollification might not work on Salem or the Grimm due to them not being human, but if it does, Salem can prob avoid it by becoming smoke. With all that being said, Makima's best wincon is Cosmo since Salem doesn't resist her ability, and it's quick and easy to use. Salem's best bet around it is prob having Apathy Grimm immobilize her before she can use her ability or by having a Grimm one-shot her, but with how fast Cosmo can use All-Out Halloween, it's gonna be hard to do so.

Makima doesn't resist having her soul absorbed by Salem or the Grimm. Considering Salem can control 1000's of Grimm and Makima's habit of not avoiding attacks, she might have her soul destroyed by one of the stronger, random Grimm attacking her (It's also worth noting that Makima prob can't control Grimm since Salem is already taking full control of them). Makima also doesn't resist Emp Manip from Apathy Grimm, which can quickly leave her and whoever she summons completely drained of will and immobilized. Complete freezing prob won't work since it is an attack and thus can be transferred to some citizen.

Overall, I think I'm leaning towards Salem since she has slightly better ways around Makima's wincons. While Makima doesn't have many ways around Salem's main wincons of herself or a Grimm absorbing Makima's soul or incaping Makima with Apathy Grimm.
Click to expand...
 
Telekinesis crushing Makima, throwing her into pools of Grimm to destroy her soul, the Apathy go brr, Soul absorbing go brr
 
anyways mind waiting for the CSM to give good arguments on this. all my Adam Matchups (don't Regret making them lol) got removed cuz barely anyone was arguing for Adam and was fra training.

so Maybe hold on the Fra Trains yall
 
I mean Makima kinda can't kill Salem bc Type 8 immortality + good regen to regenerated from dust

Like her only win con is mind control, something she won't do immediately to a opponent she knows is stronger then she is in character
 
Didn't Makima start with Mind Manip if OP mentioned? I don't think so, Makima can look into Salem's mind and discover her abilities so Makima can use Mind + Bio Hax at the same time. Makima can also see a few seconds into the future and maybe she will see her death then she won't hesitate to send her subordinates to the front line while she will hide to wait for the opportunity to activate stronger hax like Cosmo or she will try to shoot chains at Salem to transfer the damage to her. I vote Makima

btw, like I said above, Makima also just needs to give one more command to those who can "resist" her Mind Hax and I also don't see mind hax resis mentioned in her profile (damn, I had to repeat it twice)
 
GodEarh206 said:
Didn't Makima start with Mind Manip if OP mentioned? I don't think so, Makima can look into Salem's mind and discover her abilities so Makima can use Mind + Bio Hax at the same time. Makima can also see a few seconds into the future and maybe she will see her death then she won't hesitate to send her subordinates to the front line while she will hide to wait for the opportunity to activate stronger hax like Cosmo or she will try to shoot chains at Salem to transfer the damage to her. I vote Makima

btw, like I said above, Makima also just needs to give one more command to those who can "resist" her Mind Hax and I also don't see mind hax resis mentioned in her profile (damn, I had to repeat it twice)
Click to expand...
yo, I gave Makima knowledge of Salem's status earlier so it won't be Conquest straight away
 
Ms.Luzifer said:
yo, I gave Makima knowledge of Salem's status earlier so it won't be Conquest straight away
Click to expand...
I mean Makima can look into her mind and also know that she is not resistant to Mind Hax, and she herself is not stronger than Makima physically (if not counting Lifting Strength), the case of Primal Fear when Makima did not use it was because she knew for sure it would not work because they are "Primal Fear" and they are the same level as her eldest sister "Death Devil", but here Makima only knows about her stats and she is not "Primal Fear"
 
GodEarh206 said:
Didn't Makima start with Mind Manip if OP mentioned? I don't think so, Makima can look into Salem's mind and discover her abilities so Makima can use Mind + Bio Hax at the same time. Makima can also see a few seconds into the future and maybe she will see her death then she won't hesitate to send her subordinates to the front line while she will hide to wait for the opportunity to activate stronger hax like Cosmo or she will try to shoot chains at Salem to transfer the damage to her. I vote Makima

btw, like I said above, Makima also just needs to give one more command to those who can "resist" her Mind Hax and I also don't see mind hax resis mentioned in her profile (damn, I had to repeat it twice)
Click to expand...
Has she bio haxed someone who isnt a biological human? Salem is almost entirely Grimm, one step below an abstract being, can regenerate from total physical annihilation and pure energy, and is barred from the afterlife

None of the Hybrids or Devils Makima has can really do anything significant to Salem, even Angel wouldnt do anything because Salem is physically incapable of dying from age. Salem literally just thinks and all of them are restrained by hands spawning out of nowhere, or crushed with telekinesis.

Meanwhile Salem can kinda just look at Makima and kill her six ways from sunday, and given she wants all of humanity to die she would have zero issue with just killing Makima over and over again until there are no more japanese citizens left for her to respawn from.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Meanwhile Salem can kinda just look at Makima and kill her six ways from sunday, and given she wants all of humanity to die she would have zero issue with just killing Makima over and over again until there are no more japanese citizens left for her to respawn from.
Click to expand...
why don't you consider that out of those hundred million deaths, Makima will immediately activate All-Out Halloween and Salem will be hit by it. Okay with Bio Hax, I just want it to be able to hold Salem back a bit, the same goes for her subordinates, it's just a way to hold back but not very effective

And what is the range of Salem's "one look and die" and how does it work?
 
Ms.Luzifer said:
anyways by all means, look at Salem's Appearance, she does not look normal and maybe that alone would probably make Makima not control her first thing.
Click to expand...
Makima does the same this devils as well as shown with Angel. Regardless of their species, Makima will retort to Conquest.
koopa3144 said:
Salem should be able to avoid Hell Devil BFR by turning intangible, but she doesn't have a good way of escaping the Eternity Devil's pocket dimension. She might be able to cause it pain til it offers her its heart like Denji did, or use her SI to talk the devil into giving up, but since Makima's controlling the Eternity Devil here, SI might not work. Dollification might not work on Salem or the Grimm due to them not being human, but if it does, Salem can prob avoid it by becoming smoke. With all that being said, Makima's best wincon is Cosmo since Salem doesn't resist her ability, and it's quick and easy to use. Salem's best bet around it is prob having Apathy Grimm immobilize her before she can use her ability or by having a Grimm one-shot her, but with how fast Cosmo can use All-Out Halloween, it's gonna be hard to do so.
Click to expand...
Intangibility is not useful against the Hell Devil, as it does not require physical touch to teleport its target to Hell. Regarding your argument that Dollification would not work on Salem because she is not human, that point does not hold much weight. Devils in particular are immune to Dollification because they are already devils, making them resistant to the biological transmutation used by Santa Claus. This ability does grow stronger over time as Santa’s power increases, but that growth only applies within the conceptual hierarchy of power in Chainsaw Man and is not related to anything crossverse.

Makima also has precognition, allowing her to see Salem's attacks before she can perform them. She can use the abilities you mentioned through her contracted minions and the hundreds or even thousands of Public Safety Devil Hunters under her command at multiple different angles.

She often uses her usual tactic of leaving the area and letting her minions do the fighting while she uses clairvoyance to read her opponent's mind, understand their battle strategies, thought process and even abilities.

Then there is her death ritual, which is an instant kill, as well as her control chains which are intangible and allow Makima to exert direct control without being driven by her need to feel superior, as shown with Nayuta.
koopa3144 said:
Makima doesn't resist having her soul absorbed by Salem or the Grimm. Considering Salem can control 1000's of Grimm and Makima's habit of not avoiding attacks, she might have her soul destroyed by one of the stronger, random Grimm attacking her (It's also worth noting that Makima prob can't control Grimm since Salem is already taking full control of them). Makima also doesn't resist Emp Manip from Apathy Grimm, which can quickly leave her and whoever she summons completely drained of will and immobilized. Complete freezing prob won't work since it is an attack and thus can be transferred to some citizen.

Overall, I think I'm leaning towards Salem since she has slightly better ways around Makima's wincons. While Makima doesn't have many ways around Salem's main wincons of herself or a Grimm absorbing Makima's soul or incaping Makima with Apathy GrGrimm.
Click to expand...
I can't stress enough how much the argument that Makima "lets attacks hit her" or the general consensus around it needs to be urgently removed from her profile. In the first scan you sent, Makima clearly had hundreds of devil hunters linked to her control chains for more direct and instant damage transfer while still dodging Pochita's attacks in that same panel. In the second scan, it is clearly shown that Makima let the Gun Devil hit her to create a halo with her brain tissue and open a portal for a mass ability activation against the Gun Devil. That was a pre-planned action, not her "letting herself get hit." Every time Makima takes damage from guns or firepower, it is part of a calculated plan or deception. The moment she realizes she no longer needs to take on that pressure, she stops.

I also don't think the argument that Makima can't control Grimm because someone else is controlling them holds any weight. That's the same case as with the hybrids, who are sentient beings within their hosts, yet Makima still turned them into part of her arsenal through Conquest. If push comes to shove and Makima senses at any point in the fight that Salem is beneath her even for a moment, Conquest becomes a valid option.

Empathic manipulation is also just an extension of mind manipulation, isn't it? Makima resists supernatural mind manipulation, so there's no logical way empathic manipulation would affect her.

I'm voting for Makima because her abilities are far more effective in this scenario. She's more versatile and reliable, supported by thousands of devil hunters each with unique contracts. Their powers range from turning opponents to stone to raw 8-A Mantis Devil slashes and more. Their motives and wills are under Makima's control, and if they die, she can resurrect them as zombies. And even precognition.
Spinoirr said:
Op said Makima is given knowledge of Salem's status

Meaning she knows Salem is stronger then she is
Click to expand...
That is not what that means. It just means she knows Salems status as in who she is.
 
Mommyleona said:
Conquest gotta be the most overrated mind hax oat
Click to expand...
Underrated actually. It's not mentioned or brought up enough in discussions about battles with Makima, and I always have to be the one to remind everyone of its relevance, as well as how quickly it could turn the tide of a fight, especially considering it's her go-to/main ability. There also always have to be rules in place to hinder Conquest and prevent Makima from taking the win instantly.

It's way to useful in the way it's being undermined, prior at least.
 
GunshyFever said:
Underrated actually. It's not mentioned or brought up enough in discussions about battles with Makima, and I always have to be the one to remind everyone of its relevance, as well as how quickly it could turn the tide of a fight, especially considering it's her go-to/main ability. There also always have to be rules in place to hinder Conquest and prevent Makima from taking the win instantly.

It's way to useful in the way it's being undermined, prior at least.
Click to expand...
The opposite for me actually, we like, almost never see her use it in an actual fight, let alone as a go to move, 99% of times she uses it is when she uses it on opponents she defeated prior via other means or on already dead people, other times its slow going process of submission
 
GunshyFever said:
I also don't think the argument that Makima can't control Grimm because someone else is controlling them holds any weight. That's the same case as with the hybrids, who are sentient beings within their hosts, yet Makima still turned them into part of her arsenal through Conquest. If push comes to shove and Makima senses at any point in the fight that Salem is beneath her even for a moment, Conquest becomes a valid option.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind during the fight against DD she takes control over one of Santa Claus Perfect Dolls, wich are under another persons direct control + Hive mind
 
Mommyleona said:
The opposite for me actually, we like, almost never see her use it in an actual fight, let alone as a go to move, 99% of times she uses it is when she uses it on opponents she defeated prior via other means or on already dead people, other times its slow going process of submission
Click to expand...
That's because we almost never get the chance to see it. All her opponents we see her face are ones she already has excessive and even extreme knowledge of beforehand. That's enough for her to think "Hey I don't feel above this person."

However that's in a fight. We do see how she contextually uses her ability whenever she does in the manga, and it's used exactly as described in these matchups. I get your reasoning though, little use in the manga but high use crossverse. But I'll tell you this to support the logic of it. If Makima used her ability wildly like this on screen it's because whenever she does it's not really a fight, since the character is mind controlled instantly. Take Angel for instance or any person ever she used it on.
 
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