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Old Tier up to Universe level+ with Omnipotence (Shibai&OHTSUTSUKI GODS)

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Anything under the solar system is obsolete, so it should be reasonable to assume a greater range. With this new multiversal s*it, it could make sense. I’ve always thought the Otsutsuki were regulators of the universe. You should have the translations checked if you haven’t already.

However, we don’t actually know how it works there could be constraints. For example, I don’t find it unlikely that through event manipulation they could generate alternate worlds, or that they might be able to create them but not through a single omnidirectional output, or that they could simply bring about the event that generates everything, like environment destruction and then manipulate their creation. For things like this, I’d prefer more explicit contexts. (This isn’t meant to be a stance or real examples, but rather to convey that I have high standards when it comes to these things.)

Honestly, I’m not abandoning the OP’s premise; I’ll stay neutral. I think there are some grounds for it.

Shi4njutsu said:
"UNI+ WITH OMNIPOTENCE" i am not scaling Dura, just AP VIA Creation it's a HAX so yeah Dura isn't Here dw
Click to expand...

Add it to the premise. I’d also fix the setup , it’s a bit messy.
 
Syncornize said:
Anything under the solar system is obsolete, so it should be reasonable to assume a greater range. With this new multiversal s*it, it could make sense. I’ve always thought the Otsutsuki were regulators of the universe. You should have the translations checked if you haven’t already.

However, we don’t actually know how it works there could be constraints. For example, I don’t find it unlikely that through event manipulation they could generate alternate worlds, or that they might be able to create them but not through a single omnidirectional output, or that they could simply bring about the event that generates everything, like environment destruction and then manipulate their creation. For things like this, I’d prefer more explicit contexts. (This isn’t meant to be a stance or real examples, but rather to convey that I have high standards when it comes to these things.)

Honestly, I’m not abandoning the OP’s premise; I’ll stay neutral. I think there are some grounds for it.



Add it to the premise. I’d also fix the setup , it’s a bit messy.
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For now the only thing that we know is that they did with Info manip T2 so they create the Fondamental block of reality with a Programming language, so Instruction after Instruction they did ALL the Universe. And thank you for the Advice!
 
Shi4njutsu said:
For now the only thing that we know is that they did with Info manip T2 so they create the Fondamental block of reality with a Programming language, so Instruction after Instruction they did ALL the Universe. And thank you for the Advice!
Click to expand...
At the moment, we’re starting from a base that necessarily goes far beyond ETSO in terms of range, and since the context refers to a wide-scale block, I don’t find what you’re saying improbable. I think we can list that Omnipotence should have Law Manipulation not only through Reality Warping. Besides that, Momoshiki’s description really reminds me of Izanagi.
Don’t worry ,the more organized it is, the more it stands out.
 
Though there isn't anything in the manga that explicitly contradicts your evidence, I think this needs more proof. We can come back to this as more is revealed about Shibai
 
Ecronicron said:
Though there isn't anything in the manga that explicitly contradicts your evidence, I think this needs more proof. We can come back to this as more is revealed about Shibai
Click to expand...
smoking-smoking-anime.gif

One of the reasons why I had wished to let this sit in the oven and let Ike do his thing but so far the implications do seem pretty valid at least in my perspective
 
Why stop at low 2-C? Let's add more tiers to it and make it reach 2-A cosmology, and also hax to see infinite possibilities.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Why stop at low 2-C? Let's add more tiers to it and make it reach 2-A cosmology, and also hax to see infinite possibilities.
Click to expand...

It might not be definitively 2-A, since the possibilities are stated to be snuffed out, clearly they’re not bunny hopping from a multiverse or different timelines

Like Ecro said that part is a bit vague and I wanna see more stuff drop using that before we implement things regarding that
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Hmm. The otsutsuki devour countless planets, undergo evolution for years and achieve the ultimate power of creating one planet. Yeah makes sense. Even the derivative ninjutsus can create moons. Omnipotence being hyped up to create a planet makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Imagine consuming countless planets for thousands of years, and probably consuming your own kin, just to end up slightly stronger than Hagoromo.
 
Shi4njutsu said:
@Godernet @LordTracer @LordGriffin1000 . Sorry to recall but the CRT has lasted too much so i just want a Conclusion to know. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Nah bro, there are threads that stay open for weeks, even months. Keep in mind that the number of staff members is smaller than the number of threads they can handle, and they also have their own commitments and hobbies outside of here. The time it takes also depends on how important the change is and on the verse being dealt with. This is an important verse, so you’ll definitely be reviewed within a reasonable time frame.

Write to them on their personal boards. Include the link to the discussion. If you don’t know how to do it, you need to copy the link from your page’s address bar, highlight a word or phrase with the left mouse button, then press Ctrl+K or click on the paperclip icon you see in the text bar, paste the link, and the selected word will be highlighted like this.
 
Syncornize said:
Nah bro, there are threads that stay open for weeks, even months. Keep in mind that the number of staff members is smaller than the number of threads they can handle, and they also have their own commitments and hobbies outside of here. The time it takes also depends on how important the change is and on the verse being dealt with. This is an important verse, so you’ll definitely be reviewed within a reasonable time frame.

Write to them on their personal boards. Include the link to the discussion. If you don’t know how to do it, you need to copy the link from your page’s address bar, highlight a word or phrase with the left mouse button, then press Ctrl+K or click on the paperclip icon you see in the text bar, paste the link, and the selected word will be highlighted like this.
Click to expand...
oh okay i didn't know cause my last thread was fast ended but it was cause it's boruto okay ty
 
Threads lasting long isn't an issue, especially for an upgrade of this magnitude, having it prolonged without much engagement or conclusion however is the annoying part IMO
 
So, gonna be blunt. Half of what's written in that OP is yap... Like it has no barring on the acceptable rating and it's just repeating itself.

As for the statement in itself, I guess it's worth something but I'm not sold on it. You use the words Genesis as evidence but it means the origin not the creation of a universe by default. For example if a ball of energy was used to create a planet, that would have been the "Genesis" as it was the origin of that world. Plus mentioning it being biblical term doesn't help because we don't use stuff that that since this isn't a one for one, it's like well it means that here so it means it there but we're dealing with to different things. However, while the scans actually put in the OP don't really give much on scope, it's likely their not referring to just planets since, Eda's lesser version is on a planetary scale, it references any and everything of the world, and lesser beings already have a method to create planetary objects. So hyping up a technique that's almost replicated by lesser beings would be odd.

I guess I'll put it like this. I can accept this as Low 2-C but it's at the line for me. I don't find much of what's in the OP actually useful in the scope of the rating itself but I think there's enough to suggest a likelihood that it is.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Eda's lesser version is on a planetary scale,
Click to expand...
just a tiny correction i wanna make is, her ability worked on a universal and interdimensional scale, not planetary, we see them exit the planet and move towards the rest of space and later on it was confirmed that Code who at the time was in a different dimension also was affected
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
just a tiny correction i wanna make is, her ability worked on a universal and interdimensional scale, not planetary, we see them exit the planet and move towards the rest of space and later on it was confirmed that Code who at the time was in a different dimension also was affected
Click to expand...
👍 That makes it better.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
So, gonna be blunt. Half of what's written in that OP is yap... Like it has no barring on the acceptable rating and it's just repeating itself.

As for the statement in itself, I guess it's worth something but I'm not sold on it. You use the words Genesis as evidence but it means the origin not the creation of a universe by default. For example if a ball of energy was used to create a planet, that would have been the "Genesis" as it was the origin of that world. Plus mentioning it being biblical term doesn't help because we don't use stuff that that since this isn't a one for one, it's like well it means that here so it means it there but we're dealing with to different things. However, while the scans actually put in the OP don't really give much on scope, it's likely their not referring to just planets since, Eda's lesser version is on a planetary scale, it references any and everything of the world, and lesser beings already have a method to create planetary objects. So hyping up a technique that's almost replicated by lesser beings would be odd.

I guess I'll put it like this. I can accept this as Low 2-C but it's at the line for me. I don't find much of what's in the OP actually useful in the scope of the rating itself but I think there's enough to suggest a likelihood that it is.
Click to expand...
I also want to clarify something important. The original kanji doesn’t merely imply Genesis as in “to start” or “begin” something. The word used is 創世 (Sōsei), which literally breaks down as:
  • 創 (Sō) - to create, originate, or bring into existence
  • 世 (Sei) - world, realm, age, or existence
So it means “Creation of the World” not just “to start or begin.”
Momoshiki doesn’t say “god created this world,” when speaking to Boruto but rather “god created the world” a phrasing that encompasses both his own world and Boruto’s, merging them conceptually into a single, universal “The world.”

This kanji and the way it was used also mirrors the linguistic structure of Genesis and its usually mainly used in the Creation of the world as in “the universe” the beginning of everything, Creation itself. Importantly, Momoshiki never even regarded Earth as his world, in fact, he didn’t know of it until Urashiki showed him. And since arriving, he’s been stuck inside Boruto, claiming to even possess a “detailed understanding of every single Shinjutsu” an information he wouldn’t have been previewed to while being trapped in Boruto’s body. That means this information predates his arrival to Earth a knowledge passed down within the Ōtsutsuki clan.

So interpreting “the world” as just “a planet” isn't just wrong in this context it is narratively inconsistent. Otsutsuki travels from planet to planet, draining their life energy so from his perspective, “a planet” isn’t “the world”; it’s just one of many like the one he had destroyed before coming to earth. When he speaks of “the world,” it’s referring to the totality of existence the cosmos (Hence Sosei) not a single celestial body that was supposed to have been harvested and already discarded like many others if Kaguya had succeeded.

And while you already agree with this, I think it’s important to make clear that the basis of the agreement the linguistic and contextual foundation matters even more than the agreement itself.


This is from the official translation team.
 
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Samlex1234 said:
I also want to clarify something important. The original kanji doesn’t merely imply Genesis as in “to start” or “begin” something. The word used is 創世 (Sōsei), which literally breaks down as:
  • 創 (Sō) - to create, originate, or bring into existence
  • 世 (Sei) - world, realm, age, or existence
So it means “Creation of the World” not just “to start or begin.”
Momoshiki doesn’t say “god created this world,” when speaking to Boruto but rather “god created the world” a phrasing that encompasses both his own world and Boruto’s, merging them conceptually into a single, universal “The world.”

This kanji and the way it was used also mirrors the linguistic structure of Genesis and its usually mainly used in the Creation of the world as in “the universe” the beginning of everything, Creation itself. Importantly, Momoshiki never even regarded Earth as his world, in fact, he didn’t know of it until Urashiki showed him. And since arriving, he’s been stuck inside Boruto, claiming to even possess a “detailed understanding of every single Shinjutsu” an information he wouldn’t have been previewed to while being trapped in Boruto’s body. That means this information predates his arrival to Earth a knowledge passed down within the Ōtsutsuki clan.

So interpreting “the world” as just “a planet” isn't just wrong in this context it is narratively inconsistent. Otsutsuki travels from planet to planet, draining their life energy so from his perspective, “a planet” isn’t “the world”; it’s just one of many like the one he had destroyed before coming to earth. When he speaks of “the world,” it’s referring to the totality of existence the cosmos (Hence Sosei) not a single celestial body that was supposed to have been harvested and already discarded like many others if Kaguya had succeeded.

And while you already agree with this, I think it’s important to make clear that the basis of the agreement the linguistic and contextual foundation matters even more than the agreement itself.


This is from the official translation team.
Click to expand...

This is what I meant by yap. I didn't deny this, I just said Genesis means the beginning of something not a universal default but because the addition of context in verse would like towards the universe aspect, which is why I agreed. You didn't need to clarify this.
 
I have some issues. Even if it is the beginning of creation, why do we assume it is Low 2-C, which is the space-time universe? It could be simply universal 3-A, or likely even lower, since the universe could already exist, and everything was just created thereafter. Ngl, Low 2-C is a very high-end interpretation
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
This is what I meant by yap. I didn't deny this, I just said Genesis means the beginning of something not a universal default but because the addition of context in verse would like towards the universe aspect, which is why I agreed. You didn't need to clarify this.
Click to expand...
That is exactly the point, you mentioned “Genesis just means the beginning of something,” which isn’t linguistically accurate for 創世. My clarification wasn’t redundant it established that Sōsei inherently denotes the “creation of a world or existence itself”, which supports your conclusion but strengthens its basis. I’m not re-stating; I’m substantiating.

Edited
Vietthai96 said:
I have some issues. Even if it is the beginning of creation, why do we assume it is Low 2-C, which is the space-time universe? It could be simply universal 3-A, or likely even lower, since the universe could already exist, and everything was just created thereafter. Ngl, Low 2-C is a very high-end interpretation
Click to expand...

I’ll try to reply to this soon, hopefully before the day ends if others don’t beat me to it. Personally, I actually think Low 2-C is already a lowball interpretation for this feat, but since that’s what most of the fandom settled on, I’ll try to work within that baseline for now.
 
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Vietthai96 said:
I have some issues. Even if it is the beginning of creation, why do we assume it is Low 2-C, which is the space-time universe? It could be simply universal 3-A, or likely even lower, since the universe could already exist, and everything was just created thereafter. Ngl, Low 2-C is a very high-end interpretation
Click to expand...
Good Argument! In fact why would Shibai have created the Continuum space-time ? let me answer you.

We know like demonstrated before that "GODS" created The "Universe" with Omnipotence but here you need to pay attention to a Fondamental Information, "INFORMATION MANIPULATION TYPE 2" that it's used in this context to literally create EVERY CONSTITUENT OF REALITY(THE UNIVERSE) so if Shibai(God or GODS like you want" would only have created the 3D material Universe then The time and Continuum would have not existed but in Naruto series we know that a Chronology and Time line exists, so Shibai created it cause Momoshiki and confirmed in RDV Boruto that Shibai created every constituent of The universe that form the Fondamental Block of reality so the Continuum too and all it's Snapshots, you can't have snapshots without the Addition of Time so if we go by your logic The time was created by Humans in Naruto and The continuum too and that's a Impossible proposition that goes in Contradiction with our Original statement, a SnapShot it's a 3D Instant of ALL the Universe and in the Continuum there are an Infinity amount of Snapshots so the Line PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE was created by Omnipotence TOO. (Sorry i am not a native english speaker tell me if you didn't understand a thing.)
Oh yes i forgot 1 thing The Universe couldn't Exist before if The Creation is said to be here how the Universe can exist when we are talking about his Creation?So it didn't exist before.


Like said by :

HelloThere1089, I used Shibai but it's "GOD"/"GODS"​

 
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Shi4njutsu said:
Good Argument! In fact why would Shibai have created the Continuum space-time ? let me answer you.

We know like demonstrated before that "GODS" created The "Universe" with Omnipotence but here you need to pay attention to a Fondamental Information, "INFORMATION MANIPULATION TYPE 2" that it's used in this context to literally create EVERY CONSTITUENT OF REALITY(THE UNIVERSE) so if Shibai(God or GODS like you want" would only have created the 3D material Universe then The time and Continuum would have not existed but in Naruto series we know that a Chronology and Time line exists, so Shibai created it cause Momoshiki and confirmed in RDV Boruto that Shibai created every constituent of The universe that form the Fondamental Block of reality so the Continuum too and all it's Snapshots, you can't have snapshots without the Addition of Time so if we go by your logic The time was created by Humans in Naruto and The continuum too and that's a Impossible proposition that goes in Contradiction with our Original statement, a SnapShot it's a 3D Instant of ALL the Universe and in the Continuum there are an Infinity amount of Snapshots so the Line PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE was created by Omnipotence TOO. (Sorry i am not a native english speaker tell me if you didn't understand a thing.)
Click to expand...

To avoid confusion I think it is necessary to differentiate between Shibai and the Otsutsuki god. I don't think it was ever stated that Shibai created anything. Just that he reached the level at which he could if he wanted to. Shibai was a mortal when the main universe existed. Which is why his remains were found on Earth. Just clearing that up so that this isn't used to "debunk" this thread.
 
Vietthai96 said:
I have some issues. Even if it is the beginning of creation, why do we assume it is Low 2-C, which is the space-time universe? It could be simply universal 3-A, or likely even lower, since the universe could already exist, and everything was just created thereafter. Ngl, Low 2-C is a very high-end interpretation
Click to expand...
With all due respect I hope youre doing it on purpose ?
 
Shi4njutsu said:
Good Argument! In fact why would Shibai have created the Continuum space-time ? let me answer you.

We know like demonstrated before that "GODS" created The "Universe" with Omnipotence but here you need to pay attention to a Fondamental Information, "INFORMATION MANIPULATION TYPE 2" that it's used in this context to literally create EVERY CONSTITUENT OF REALITY(THE UNIVERSE) so if Shibai(God or GODS like you want" would only have created the 3D material Universe then The time and Continuum would have not existed but in Naruto series we know that a Chronology and Time line exists, so Shibai created it cause Momoshiki and confirmed in RDV Boruto that Shibai created every constituent of The universe that form the Fondamental Block of reality so the Continuum too and all it's Snapshots, you can't have snapshots without the Addition of Time so if we go by your logic The time was created by Humans in Naruto and The continuum too and that's a Impossible proposition that goes in Contradiction with our Original statement, a SnapShot it's a 3D Instant of ALL the Universe and in the Continuum there are an Infinity amount of Snapshots so the Line PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE was created by Omnipotence TOO. (Sorry i am not a native english speaker tell me if you didn't understand a thing.)
Oh yes i forgot 1 thing The Universe couldn't Exist before if The Creation is said to be here how the Universe can exist when we are talking about his Creation?So it didn't exist before.


Like said by :

HelloThere1089, I used Shibai but it's "GOD"/"GODS"​

Click to expand...

Well said. I’d just add this: The “beginning” being described isn’t something that happened within time it’s the very moment time and space came into being. You can’t have a “beginning of the world” before time exists, because the beginning is the start of time itself the point where space and causality also come into existence.

“It could be simply universal 3-A, or likely even lower, since the universe could already exist, and everything was just created thereafter.“

This doesn’t make sense at all you can’t claim the universe “already existed” when the discussion is literally about the moment existence/the universe itself began.
 
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