"There is no life in the void. Only...DOOM!" (Sauron vs Doctor Doom) (Lord of the Rings vs Marvel Comics)

[Eseseso]

During the events of the 2015 Secret Wars, God Emperor Doom is approached in his throne room by a mysterious yet ominous figure, who demands rule of the cosmos. Doom, being Doom, isn't letting this challenger go unpunished.

God Emperor Doom vs Sauron in his final key (1-A end)

SBA

Doctor Doom: 0

Sauron: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

So before I talk about with what start GE Doom, how many layers in 1-A does Sauron have?

 

[Eseseso]

So before I talk about with what start GE Doom, how many layers in 1-A does Sauron have?

Pretty sure it's baseline 1-A. Basic R>F stuff

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

OK, i was dig but cant remember if IG was above 1 layers (even though Victor still is somewhat 3-D but can become his own Battleworld eternity equivalent)

nonetheless Victor still is Like at least above 20 times baseline in 1-A and I dont see resistence to Laws, Plot and information, however Sauron is protect by Eru, Doom could notice his deadly kit dont work so he will choose incapacitation, maybe rewrite the narrative to make Sauron be doing other thing or temporally seal him

 

[Eseseso]

OK, i was dig but cant remember if IG was above 1 layers (even though Victor still is somewhat 3-D but can become his own Battleworld eternity equivalent)

nonetheless Victor still is Like at least above 20 times baseline in 1-A and I dont see resistence to Laws, Plot and information, however Sauron is protect by Eru, Doom could notice his deadly kit dont work so he will choose incapacitation, maybe rewrite the narrative to make Sauron be doing other thing or temporally seal him

He's baseline 1-A via scaling above the Infinity Gauntlet

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Oh, no i mean, Doom is still baseline in R>F but his raw ap is above 20 time in attack potency, not in nature

 

[Eseseso]

Oh, no i mean, Doom is still baseline in R>F but his raw ap is above 20 time in attack potency, not in nature

Ah.

Well in terms of attack potency, he was above (albeit not by a vast degree but enough that he was guaranteed to win) the Infinity Gauntlet, which has stomped the 1-A Abstracts multiple times.

He also curbstomped the Phoenix Force, which scales to the abstracts, with ease.

 

[MrKerf]

I mean... Fat chance, I know, but can Sauron use The Music of the Ainur to rewrite Victor's concept?

 

[Eseseso]

I mean... Fat chance, I know, but can Sauron use The Music of the Ainur to rewrite Victor's concept?

Not likely since Doom resists CM1.

 

[MrKerf]

Not likely since Doom resists CM1.

I know, but Sauron's is specifically enhanced several times due to being a Maiar and out of Eä.

 

[Eseseso]

I know, but Sauron's is specifically enhanced several times due to being a Maiar and out of Eä.

Doom has layered resistance to magic which is CM1

 

[Tyranno223]

I'm pretty sure this will just be Doom beating up Sauron for the rest of eternity has his punching bag. Sauron's more or less baseline. At the 1-A end you can say Sauron is stronger than most of the Maiar, but that's not going to cross a 20x gap I believe. Most of his abilities don't really do much here either.

But at the same time, Sauron in this key is basically unkillable. Eru sustains all souls of the Legendarium and Ainur in their origin are literally just spirits, aka, their soul is their entire existence. Not only that but Doom can't mess with his mind without consent.

So it basically just comes down to Doom beating up Sauron forever and/or sealing him away... tbh, given how Sauron doesn't really have a wincon beyond Doom letting himself die of old-age, this is basically a stomp.

Empathic Manipulation might be the one viable option for Sauron? Doom can resist basic EM from what I can see, but Ainuric EM can affect beings who resist EM and said beings can EM others of their kind who resist EM (Ainur EM > High Elf EM > Elven EM) and Sauron, as a Greater Maiar, likely has the same type of EM that can overwhelm someone's free-will. But idk how that'll interact with Doom, especially with his Supernatural Willpower.

 

[Eseseso]

I'm pretty sure this will just be Doom beating up Sauron for the rest of eternity has his punching bag. Sauron's more or less baseline. At the 1-A end you can say Sauron is stronger than most of the Maiar, but that's not going to cross a 20x gap I believe. Most of his abilities don't really do much here either.

I still don't know where this 20x comes from but yes, Emperor Doom scales above a person who is vastly superior to dozens of baseline 1-A beings

But at the same time, Sauron in this key is basically unkillable. Eru sustains all souls of the Legendarium and Ainur in their origin are literally just spirits, aka, their soul is their entire existence. Not only that but Doom can't mess with his mind without consent.

So it basically just comes down to Doom beating up Sauron forever and/or sealing him away... tbh, given how Sauron doesn't really have a wincon beyond Doom letting himself die of old-age, this is basically a stomp.

Empathic Manipulation might be the one viable option for Sauron? Doom can resist basic EM from what I can see, but Ainuric EM can affect beings who resist EM and said beings can EM others of their kind who resist EM (Ainur EM > High Elf EM > Elven EM) and Sauron, as a Greater Maiar, likely has the same type of EM that can overwhelm someone's free-will. But idk how that'll interact with Doom, especially with his Supernatural Willpower.

1. Feels like there is potential for layers for hax in LotR

2. I'm not sure if it would or wouldn't work because of that willpower, like you said. Would Sauron even go for it first thing?

 

[Tyranno223]

1. Feels like there is potential for layers for hax in LotR

There is for sure. Especially with stuff like EM.

2. I'm not sure if it would or wouldn't work because of that willpower, like you said. Would Sauron even go for it first thing?

It's a passive part of his being.

In fact the Valar have to craft forms for themselves that don't instantly strip Elves of their free-will. Even their current ones are at risk of doing that, with Ulmo being worried about this happening before they first meet the Elves, so their full majesty would certainly be capable of doing this.

Since this is Sauron without form, and due to him being considered a Greater Maia (who are nigh as great as the Valar in all regards) his EM will be on full effect for any who perceive him.

 

[Eseseso]

So I guess the real question is if Doom's willpower lets him resist Sauron's EM?

There is for sure. Especially with stuff like EM.

I think a CRT is needed for layered hax but seems pretty clear cut to me

 

[Tyranno223]

So I guess the real question is if Doom's willpower lets him resist Sauron's EM?

Yeah, although it's arguably kinda a stomp either way then since Sauron's EM is passive.

I think a CRT is needed for layered hax but seems pretty clear cut to me

It's on the to do list but I'm on an indefinite hiatus for revisions on here for now.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I still don't know where this 20x comes from but yes, Emperor Doom scales above a person who is vastly superior to dozens of baseline 1-A beings

well, it maybe be lower or higher, but from IG page
the Gauntlet itself was later stated to be far more powerful than the Cosmic Egg, an artifact created by merging 30 Cosmic Cubes so that they became "far more than the sum of their parts,"<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Infinity_Stones#cite_note-19"><span>[</span>19<span>]</span></a> with only 5 of the cubes used in the Egg's creation having previously been able to defeat Eternity and render him catatonic

so if we assume cosmic cube (Scaling to perfect CC Kosmos)<30X Cosmic Egg<IG<Emperor Doom

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah, although it's arguably kinda a stomp either way then since Sauron's EM is passive.

Nuts, and just when I thought I found a good Marvel match