We should just have separate verse pages for DC Reboots

[The_Impress]

DC Comics

For detailed information about this franchise, visit the DC Database. DCU. Short for the Detective Comics Universe. DC is a company that publishes many of the most popular comic book characters and franchises, such as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the JLA, etc. This verse is a comic book...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Like it's genuinely difficult to navigate the galleries, it's modelled after A-Z style of the Marvel Handbooks, which works there because there is only one continuity. We do similar shit for Ultimate Marvel, Verse pages are meant to navigate the verse more effectively, but this shit just ain't effective.

Proposal is to split the DC Verse page into 5:
1. Main Verse page, DC Comics, reformatted as a hub for the different verses. Framinf could be like the Disney Verse page., and all the characters that don't fit the other verse pages could be listed here.
2. New Earth (DC Comics), listing all the New Earth (or how its called on the wiki: Post-Crisis) characters.
3. Prime Earth (DC Comics), listing all the Prime Earth (or how its called either Post-Flashpoint or Rebirth on the wiki)
4. Earth-One (DC Comics) listing all the Pre-Crisis characters
5. Earth-Two (DC Comics), listing all the Golden Age characters

Any repeated files can be linked multiple times, that isn't an issue.

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Excellence616 @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @Maverick_Zero_X @Robo432343 @LordTracer @Alonik @ProfectusInfinity @PrinceStories @Asterotheology @Zensum @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca @AerrowStorm1 @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Armorchompy @Sandman31 @Osemere @Eficiente @Adr10K @Rex_Eckles @Rosa

What do you think about this?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I agree.

Given how this wiki treats the lack of cross-scaling between the New 52 and Rebirth, they should have separate verse pages too.

Additionally, this would probably have to be addressed in a revision far down the line, but there were more in-continuity reboots and history revisions than just Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

This seems like a good idea to me.

 

[The_Impress]

I agree.

Given how this wiki treats the lack of cross-scaling between the New 52 and Rebirth, they should have separate verse pages too.

Additionally, this would probably have to be addressed in a revision far down the line, but there were more in-continuity reboots and history revisions than just Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint.

Not everyone went through Zero Hour or Rebirth with significant changes. The idea is to go by the Earths not the reboots. All the divisions I've listed are different Universe versions, essentially. That's the idea

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Not everyone went through Zero Hour or Rebirth with significant changes. The idea is to go by the Earths not the reboots. All the divisions I've listed are different Universe versions, essentially. That's the idea

Alrighty then, though I heard Dark Knights: Death Metal impacted everyone's history, that might be worth looking into later.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me then.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I agree with this.

 

[Firestorm808]

Seems fine.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Sure

 

[Eficiente]

Good idea.

 

[Antvasima]

Alrighty then, though I heard Dark Knights: Death Metal impacted everyone's history, that might be worth looking into later.

Yes. That merged the pre-Crisis, the post-Crisis, and the post-Flashpoint (post-Didiot) continuities together, as detailed in Mark Waid's current "History of the DC Universe" series.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Take this from a Pokemon fan; making many different verse pages isn't the answer. Can't they just spread the pages into multiple sections in the same verse page?

 

[Firestorm808]

Take this from a Pokemon fan; making many different verse pages isn't the answer. Can't they just spread the pages into multiple sections in the same verse page?

Is there an example page you are referring to?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Is there an example page you are referring to?

Just the Pokemon verse page.

 

[Hellbeast]

I agree.

Given how this wiki treats the lack of cross-scaling between the New 52 and Rebirth, they should have separate verse pages too.

To be fair that should change since DC basically treats everything as canon these days and in some cases (Batman and GL) everything vaguely happened from Post-Crisis

 

[Antvasima]

Take this from a Pokemon fan; making many different verse pages isn't the answer. Can't they just spread the pages into multiple sections in the same verse page?

I would also prefer this approach, especially as parts of the continuities bleed into each other.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Even though the continuities bleed into each other, I think this "hub" version handles quite well the division, any doubts or questions related to everything being canon at some level can be handled with few additional explanations if needed

 

[The_Impress]

Take this from a Pokemon fan; making many different verse pages isn't the answer. Can't they just spread the pages into multiple sections in the same verse page?

No.

You can't find shit. Pokemon has a definite cast and you know what profiles are where (or if they're not made they have placeholders, and they're all ordered by pokedex number). Click the generation and you get it.

DC currently makes you guess or Ctrl+F and type the character name and still you get ****** over because it will likely list 3 different versions of the characters.

Also ignoring all this, DC naming convention infamously sucks ass and characters that barely have anything to do with each other are given the same or similar sounding names, you have to sometimes guess if a character is listed under their alias or under their real name, and it has shit like "Earth-Two and Earth-2 And Earth-02 are all different ******* versions that don't correspond to the same universe and all can likely have a file on DC verse page"

And we don't have a list of DC pages, we can't do placeholders because that'll bloat the verse page to list 20000 potential characters out of which only 5% actually have files. So with the current system, you have to go across 3 different universes to even see if a character has a file, and they may very likely not and it's a wild goose chase. And this is when DC is a DEAD VERSE, if we ever end up having an active userbase this will be impossible to handle.

Take this from someone who has been dealing with this shit for DC, and fixed this shit for Marvel, this is the only tangible way to do this.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

DC currently makes you guess or Ctrl+F and type the character name and still you get ****** over because it will likely list 3 different versions of the characters.

DC profiles are seperate in specific era within the main page tho, and even in alphabetic order

Also ignoring all this, DC naming convention infamously sucks ass and characters that barely have anything to do with each other are given the same or similar sounding names, you have to sometimes guess if a character is listed under their alias or under their real name, and it has shit like "Earth-Two and Earth-2 And Earth-02 are all different ******* versions that don't correspond to the same universe and all can likely have a file on DC verse page"

Give an example

 

[The_Impress]

DC profiles are seperate in specific era within the main page tho, and even in alphabetic order

Yeah but they don't have all the characters listed for the specific eras, which leads to guesswork. If you are going on a verse page as a comics supporter, more often than not you're looking for what's missing and needs a file, and it's very hard to tell what's missing a file when there are multiple versions involved. Say I wanted to verify if the original Question had all the pages, I'll have to filter out Renee (who often looks very familiar) from the sea of other punch guy files, and I have to do this three times over.

Also Wiki uses wrong terms for the eras, Post-Crisis/Post-Flashpoint wording is something I have only seen battle boards use, and we also have jank shit like Rebirth and ESPECIALLY Legion guys being listed all wonk, and it also leads to confusion on how we are meant to list cosmological characters or guys who just don't go through the reboots, like Green Lanterns n shit.

And in regards to alphabetical order, you fall into the naming convention trap: Would Hal Jordan be listed Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) or Hal Jordan? What would Wonder Girl be listed under? Nightwing? Cassandra Cain? Carrie Cutter for some reason wasn't listed as Cupid.

Give an example

Bruce Wayne (Earth 2)

Bruce Wayne was Batman, one of the major heroes of Earth 2. He was killed in the invasion of Steppenwolf and survived by his daughter, Huntress. Bruce Wayne was born in 1973 to Thomas and Martha Wayne. In 1979, a six-year-old Bruce watched as his parents were murdered in front of his eyes at the...

dc.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne (Earth-Two)

The Batman (real name Bruce Wayne) was a tireless, courageous, and honorable crimefighter operating out of Gotham City. Having acted as a member of the Justice Society of America and fought various criminals in his own city for many years, he also trained proteges in Huntress and Robin, and left...

dc.fandom.com

For Earth 2

Bruce Wayne (Earth-1)

Batman (real name Bruce Wayne) is a vengeful and resourceful superhero and vigilante protecting Gotham City. Aided by his butler Alfred and motivated by the death of his parents, he fights crime in his city, and was instrumental in taking down Mayor Cobblepot, the Riddler, and Two-Face. Bruce...

dc.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne (Earth-One)

Bruce Wayne is the Batman, a vigilante who seeks to rid Gotham City of its crime. He has amassed a large group of allies and is a founding member of the Justice League of America. Bruce Wayne was the son of wealthy physician Dr. Thomas Wayne and his wife Martha. As a small child, Bruce was...

dc.fandom.com

Both are valid versions, and this isn't counting variants within the same universe, for instance Thomas Wayne and Dick Grayson can probably legitimately claim Batman (Earth-2) as well.

See, the issue isn't any of these individually, you can kinda work with the jank if you're forced to, its the fact that its all of this crap all at once. I just don't think this works at all, mate. The multiple page split just leads to us putting better focus on laying out pages and explanations without concern for pushing away anything that's relevant to some other scaling.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah but they don't have all the characters listed for the specific eras, which leads to guesswork. If you are going on a verse page as a comics supporter, more often than not you're looking for what's missing and needs a file, and it's very hard to tell what's missing a file when there are multiple versions involved. Say I wanted to verify if the original Question had all the pages, I'll have to filter out Renee (who often looks very familiar) from the sea of other punch guy files, and I have to do this three times over.

This is why Navebox also exists in nearly if not every profile

Also Wiki uses wrong terms for the eras, Post-Crisis/Post-Flashpoint wording is something I have only seen battle boards use, and we also have jank shit like Rebirth and ESPECIALLY Legion guys being listed all wonk, and it also leads to confusion on how we are meant to list cosmological characters or guys who just don't go through the reboots, like Green Lanterns n shit.

Could you provie an example for this too?

And in regards to alphabetical order, you fall into the naming convention trap: Would Hal Jordan be listed Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) or Hal Jordan? What would Wonder Girl be listed under? Nightwing? Cassandra Cain? Carrie Cutter for some reason wasn't listed as Cupid.

By whatever name we decide to put on profile. If Rachel Roth is listed as "Raven" (her hero name), then she should be listed in accordance to her hero name

Bruce Wayne (Earth 2)

Bruce Wayne was Batman, one of the major heroes of Earth 2. He was killed in the invasion of Steppenwolf and survived by his daughter, Huntress. Bruce Wayne was born in 1973 to Thomas and Martha Wayne. In 1979, a six-year-old Bruce watched as his parents were murdered in front of his eyes at the...

dc.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne (Earth-Two)

The Batman (real name Bruce Wayne) was a tireless, courageous, and honorable crimefighter operating out of Gotham City. Having acted as a member of the Justice Society of America and fought various criminals in his own city for many years, he also trained proteges in Huntress and Robin, and left...

dc.fandom.com

For Earth 2

Bruce Wayne (Earth-1)

Batman (real name Bruce Wayne) is a vengeful and resourceful superhero and vigilante protecting Gotham City. Aided by his butler Alfred and motivated by the death of his parents, he fights crime in his city, and was instrumental in taking down Mayor Cobblepot, the Riddler, and Two-Face. Bruce...

dc.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne (Earth-One)

Bruce Wayne is the Batman, a vigilante who seeks to rid Gotham City of its crime. He has amassed a large group of allies and is a founding member of the Justice League of America. Bruce Wayne was the son of wealthy physician Dr. Thomas Wayne and his wife Martha. As a small child, Bruce was...

dc.fandom.com

Both are valid versions, and this isn't counting variants within the same universe, for instance Thomas Wayne and Dick Grayson can probably legitimately claim Batman (Earth-2) as well.

See, the issue isn't any of these individually, you can kinda work with the jank if you're forced to, its the fact that its all of this crap all at once. I just don't think this works at all, mate. The multiple page split just leads to us putting better focus on laying out pages and explanations without concern for pushing away anything that's relevant to some other scaling.

I mean the name alone gives away that they are diff versions

 

[The_Impress]

This is why Navebox also exists

Not on verse pages? Confused by this point. Also Navboxes are lackluster as shit and often locked, so relying on Navboxes is a death sentence.

IIRC Marvel Rivals characters still aren't on Navboxes

Could you provie an example for this too?

...I gave the examples.

By whatever name we decide to put on profile. If Rachel Roth is listed as "Raven" (her hero name), then she should be listed in accordance to her hero name

How do you already know what they are listed on the profile? And if you already know you're using a search bar. You use the verse page when you don't know lol

I mean the name alone gives away that they are diff versions

It's not apparent, because Earth-2 and Earth-Two are also used interchangeably. Because the naming convention sucks.

Surprise.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Not on verse pages?

Most characters are distinctly split between the eras of the page (like Katana Post Flashpoint and Post Crisis)

Confused by this point. Also Navboxes are lackluster as shit and often locked, so relying on Navboxes is a death sentence.

We can unlock them and update. Its not hard and I've been doing that with new DC Profiles

How do you already know what they are listed on the profile? And if you already know you're using a search bar. You use the verse page when you don't know lol

Even as someone new, I don't think the main page is too hard to navigate when looking for most chars during the eras

It's not apparent, because Earth-2 and Earth-Two are also used interchangeably. Because the naming convention sucks.

Speaking of which, using "Prime Earth and New Earth" inside the profiles themselves would create even more confusion. I think Post Crisis and Post Flashpoint should be fine to stay. We have profiles covering both the New 52 and Rebirth era into a single key (like this) which shouldn't be that much of an issue

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah but they don't have all the characters listed for the specific eras, which leads to guesswork. If you are going on a verse page as a comics supporter, more often than not you're looking for what's missing and needs a file, and it's very hard to tell what's missing a file when there are multiple versions involved. Say I wanted to verify if the original Question had all the pages, I'll have to filter out Renee (who often looks very familiar) from the sea of other punch guy files, and I have to do this three times over.

Also Wiki uses wrong terms for the eras, Post-Crisis/Post-Flashpoint wording is something I have only seen battle boards use, and we also have jank shit like Rebirth and ESPECIALLY Legion guys being listed all wonk, and it also leads to confusion on how we are meant to list cosmological characters or guys who just don't go through the reboots, like Green Lanterns n shit.

And in regards to alphabetical order, you fall into the naming convention trap: Would Hal Jordan be listed Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) or Hal Jordan? What would Wonder Girl be listed under? Nightwing? Cassandra Cain? Carrie Cutter for some reason wasn't listed as Cupid.

Honestly I’d just lost them under their kain aliases like “Green Lantern (Hal Jordan - Post Crisis/Flashpoint)

Bruce Wayne (Earth 2)

Bruce Wayne was Batman, one of the major heroes of Earth 2. He was killed in the invasion of Steppenwolf and survived by his daughter, Huntress. Bruce Wayne was born in 1973 to Thomas and Martha Wayne. In 1979, a six-year-old Bruce watched as his parents were murdered in front of his eyes at the...

dc.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne (Earth-Two)

The Batman (real name Bruce Wayne) was a tireless, courageous, and honorable crimefighter operating out of Gotham City. Having acted as a member of the Justice Society of America and fought various criminals in his own city for many years, he also trained proteges in Huntress and Robin, and left...

dc.fandom.com

For Earth 2

Bruce Wayne (Earth-1)

Batman (real name Bruce Wayne) is a vengeful and resourceful superhero and vigilante protecting Gotham City. Aided by his butler Alfred and motivated by the death of his parents, he fights crime in his city, and was instrumental in taking down Mayor Cobblepot, the Riddler, and Two-Face. Bruce...

dc.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne (Earth-One)

Bruce Wayne is the Batman, a vigilante who seeks to rid Gotham City of its crime. He has amassed a large group of allies and is a founding member of the Justice League of America. Bruce Wayne was the son of wealthy physician Dr. Thomas Wayne and his wife Martha. As a small child, Bruce was...

dc.fandom.com

A lot of these aren’t on the wiki and they could easily be fixed in certain ways, such as mentioning Golden Age for the original Earth 2 or “Earth 2 - New 52” for the Earth 2 series post 2011

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that Impress seems to make sense here.

 

[The_Impress]

Two admins cleared it, so is this proposal good to apply?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we need to come up with a comprehensive structure for a plan of approach, and get staff volunteers willing to handle all of the page renaming/moving work, as well as all of the resulting redirect links.

 

[The_Impress]

Why? Most pages would only link to the main hub page, that isn't getting deleted or anything, that's still gonna be called DC Comics

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that you wanted to restructure the names of quite a lot of our DC Comics pages.

 

[Hellbeast]

I thought that you wanted to restructure the names of quite a lot of our DC Comics pages.

Eh that can be it’s own thing
Focusing on just restructuring the actual pages could be helpful imo

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that seems fine to me then.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Was this resolved? What is left to do here?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Was this resolved? What is left to do here?

No real changes happened besides the fact that I made sure all my profiles were proprely named in navebox

 

[The_Impress]

Was this resolved? What is left to do here?

No, coz swamped with coursework. Should be freer in like, a few weeks to apply it.

 

[Hellbeast]

If you want k can do ot on my day off in
48 hours or so, just make a list of what I have to edit

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump

 

[Hellbeast]

Ah duck I knew I forgot something

 

[The_Impress]

I'll try to finish it today and tomorrow

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.