Old Tier up to Universe level+ with Omnipotence (Shibai&OHTSUTSUKI GODS)

[karo_senpaii]

Ghost already answered to that. Please make the effort to read the Messages before you write (i am not saying that to harm/insult you just saying so we don't have to repeat ourselves.)

BONUS: Doing Jokes when i am so excited by Shibai UPSCALE makes me go wild ngl.

W bro for putting us random who are staff in your agree section

 

[Shi4njutsu]

W bro for putting us random who are staff in your agree section

it's always good to put everyone (sry if i didn't put everyone i don't have so much time) cuz Moderators and Administrators can have a Image before giving any opinion of the CRT and the Votes of everyone for me are important cause even if 4 moderators are agreeing if there is someone who isn't moderator but has GOOD REASONS to be against the thread then who i am to not put Him in the votes? Thank you btw!

 

[ReverseCross]

Agree

 

[Vietthai96]

I will reply when i get home, sorry, currently occupied with a lot of work

 

[Vietthai96]

Good Argument! In fact why would Shibai have created the Continuum space-time ? let me answer you.

We know like demonstrated before that "GODS" created The "Universe" with Omnipotence but here you need to pay attention to a Fondamental Information, "INFORMATION MANIPULATION TYPE 2" that it's used in this context to literally create EVERY CONSTITUENT OF REALITY(THE UNIVERSE) so if Shibai(God or GODS like you want" would only have created the 3D material Universe then The time and Continuum would have not existed but in Naruto series we know that a Chronology and Time line exists, so Shibai created it cause Momoshiki and confirmed in RDV Boruto that Shibai created every constituent of The universe that form the Fondamental Block of reality so the Continuum too and all it's Snapshots, you can't have snapshots without the Addition of Time so if we go by your logic The time was created by Humans in Naruto and The continuum too and that's a Impossible proposition that goes in Contradiction with our Original statement, a SnapShot it's a 3D Instant of ALL the Universe and in the Continuum there are an Infinity amount of Snapshots so the Line PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE was created by Omnipotence TOO. (Sorry i am not a native english speaker tell me if you didn't understand a thing.)
Oh yes i forgot 1 thing The Universe couldn't Exist before if The Creation is said to be here how the Universe can exist when we are talking about his Creation?So it didn't exist before.


Like said by :

HelloThere1089, I used Shibai but it's "GOD"/"GODS"​

Oke i'm back

But anyway, come back to your argument; while I could understand your interpretation, this is again mostly empty assumption without concrete backup.

Omnipotent is stated to create everything and anything; this line is extremely broad. Why must everything and anything be the space-time universe and not something else, like simply all objects in the universe, all matter, or something else entirely? Not only that but also directly in this scan

An absolute will that manifests everything into reality

The bolded text literally means that reality already exists; Omnipotent just manifests other things into an already existing reality. This is completely go against your assumption that space-time universe was and can be created by Omnipotent

The last two scans are mostly irrelevant. Why? Simply because you have Information Manipulation Type 2, doesn't mean it's automatically at the Low 2-C level. The part where you try to underline the Type 2 information on the Information Manipulation page means nothing; it only lists possible effects of the ability, what it could possibly do. Not that when you have the power, you are automatically have all those effects; the limit and all possible effects of the ability are constrained by the verse itself, what it show to us

So anyway, I disagree with Low 2-C for Omnipotent, because most of these assumptions are empty and NLF. There are so many ways to interpret these texts with these vague words, Genesis could mean the beginning of planets, or stars, or solar systems, or many others. Narrowing it down to only Universe+ is wrong to me. Omnipontent should be listed as Unknown due to how many ways this could be interpreted. Even when someone has a vague statement of destroying or creating a universe, they don't get something beyond 3-A. We literally only accept Low 2-C if there is space-time or timeline, or time directly mentioned. We have multiple staff discussions in the past about this already

 

[DavidTPPM]

Oke i'm back

But anyway, come back to your argument; while I could understand your interpretation, this is again mostly empty assumption without concrete backup.

Omnipotent is stated to create everything and anything; this line is extremely broad. Why must everything and anything be the space-time universe and not something else, like simply all objects in the universe, all matter, or something else entirely?

Are we discussing why "anything and everything" doesn't only mean "only some things"? The statement is extremely straightforward this is just unreasonable scepticism.

Not only that but also directly in this scan



The bolded text literally means that reality already exists; Omnipotent just manifests other things into an already existing reality. This is completely go against your assumption that space-time universe was and can be created by Omnipotent

No. The fact that "reality" exists stops it from being 1-A, it doesn't stop it from being a spacetime continuum.

Reality ≠ spacetime continuum.

So anyway, I disagree with Low 2-C for Omnipotent, because most of these assumptions are empty and NLF. There are so many ways to interpret these texts with these vague words, Genesis could mean the beginning of planets, or stars, or solar systems, or many others.

2 things…

1. Just because there's another possible interpretation doesn't mean it's a more likely interpretation. Yeah it could refer to a planet but that planet could be 2-A in size, that means nothing. What truly matters is the interpretations that the evidence actually points to

2. No it couldn't. The term referring to a star or solar system makes no sense. It strictly refers to the creation/start of a world for which only real fitting meanings would be either a planet or the universe. And like many people already explained, the planetary (or even a solar system) interpretations would be extremely narratively inconsistent given Momoshiki literally describes this is as a godly feat while both him and many other characters can and already did create those with ease.

 

[Vietthai96]

Are we discussing why "anything and everything" doesn't only mean "only some things"? The statement is extremely straightforward this is just unreasonable scepticism.

unreasonable skepticism, while a lot of arguments are, in fact, NLF assumption, so it is because i disagreed with a very high-end interpretation and NLF assumption, it is unreasonable skepticism?

No. The fact that "reality" exists stops it from being 1-A, it doesn't stop it from being a spacetime continuum.

?So you said it yourself, reality as a space-time continuum already exists. You proved my point

1. Just because there's another possible interpretation doesn't mean it's a more likely interpretation. Yeah it could refer to a planet but that planet could be 2-A in size, that means nothing. What truly matters is the interpretations that the evidence actually points to

We don't accept a single interpretation when there are a lot of other interpretations. You could say a lot of interpretation, but without concrete evidence, it is moot, because we can't choose a single interpretation while discarding others

No it couldn't. The term referring to a star or solar system makes no sense. It strictly refers to the creation/start of a world for which only real fitting meanings would be either a planet or the universe. And like many people already explained, the planetary (or even a solar system) interpretations would be extremely narratively inconsistent given Momoshiki literally describes this is as a godly feat while both him and many other characters can and already did create those with ease.

So again, it's still interpretation; you can't say something makes no sense while not having proof to back it up. I already said the term "Genesis," the creation of a world, means nothing; that term is extremely vague.

You said the planetary (or even solar system) interpretations would be extremely narratively inconsistent, so it is consistent with a verse jump from tier tier 4 to tier 2?, described as godly feats, mean nothing. like, what is it even mean in a large scheme of things? Even making a multi-solar system could be considered as godly to a solar system feat, the gap between solar system and a multi-solar system is extremely large, or galaxy feat, which is even larger


All and all, no offense to you, but your argument pretty much can be summed up as not choosing Low 2-C is unreasonable skepticism, yet you do not even provide any concrete proof of why we must choose Low 2-C. That's why i proposed Unknown rating due to the fact that the feat can be interpreted in multiple ways, i don't disregard your interpretation, but as i already said, tier 2 is strict and requires you to mention the involvement of space-time, timeline or time.

Anyway, time to sleep, it is midnight in my timezone

 

[Shi4njutsu]

Oke i'm back

But anyway, come back to your argument; while I could understand your interpretation, this is again mostly empty assumption without concrete backup.

Omnipotent is stated to create everything and anything; this line is extremely broad. Why must everything and anything be the space-time universe and not something else, like simply all objects in the universe, all matter, or something else entirely? Not only that but also directly in this scan



The bolded text literally means that reality already exists; Omnipotent just manifests other things into an already existing reality. This is completely go against your assumption that space-time universe was and can be created by Omnipotent

The last two scans are mostly irrelevant. Why? Simply because you have Information Manipulation Type 2, doesn't mean it's automatically at the Low 2-C level. The part where you try to underline the Type 2 information on the Information Manipulation page means nothing; it only lists possible effects of the ability, what it could possibly do. Not that when you have the power, you are automatically have all those effects; the limit and all possible effects of the ability are constrained by the verse itself, what it show to us

So anyway, I disagree with Low 2-C for Omnipotent, because most of these assumptions are empty and NLF. There are so many ways to interpret these texts with these vague words, Genesis could mean the beginning of planets, or stars, or solar systems, or many others. Narrowing it down to only Universe+ is wrong to me. Omnipontent should be listed as Unknown due to how many ways this could be interpreted. Even when someone has a vague statement of destroying or creating a universe, they don't get something beyond 3-A. We literally only accept Low 2-C if there is space-time or timeline, or time directly mentioned. We have multiple staff discussions in the past about this already

First, I would like to ask if you could make a small effort to understand and proofread my CRT if possible. THANK YOU!

First of all, when Momoshiki tells us that omnipotence can do anything through a programming language using programming language, he is talking about the intrinsic capacity of omnipotence, which is RW&Info T2 manipulation. It has nothing to do with the creation of the "world." Therefore, the fact that we say omnipotence can bring everything back to reality is in no way part of the creation of the world, but simply an explanation of what omnipotence is.

Once again, it's not vague; you tell us that the world could have already existed, but we are talking about its creation, so your previous proposition is no longer relevant.

WHY ISN'T IT ANY STRUCTURE OTHER THAN A UNIVERSE?

First, it can't be a solar system, a galaxy... because the use of the word "World" refers to a PLANET/SOCIETY/UNIVERSE. Primarily, secondly, why isn't it a society? Because we're talking about the creation of a cosmological structure within the given context, and why not a planet? Because, as the other speakers have said, we're talking about the greatest feat achieved in the entire "NARUTO/BORUTO" franchise, executed by a perfect and all-powerful deity. Furthermore, "Eida," whose omnipotence isn't even at its maximum, already has a broader than planetary influence, affecting the code's dimensions (as proven before). Therefore, the creation of the "World" clearly refers to a UNIVERSAL creation.

Regarding the T2 Information Manipulation, I used it to prove that "GOD" also governed TIME and the TIMELINE (PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE) because he controlled the necessary constituents of this "WORLD." Among the uses of T2 Information Manipulation is the ability to control the fundamental block of reality and all its information, which "GOD" did, so it's relevant.

Furthermore, "The limits and all possible effects of this power are constrained by the verse itself, by what it reveals to us." I don't understand this sentence. I mean, it's LOW 2-C, and I don't see how it's inconsistent or contradictory in relation to the user, who is an ALL-POWERFUL entity in the Naruto/Boruto universe. And it's normal that Mikio Ikemoto grants his deity an absolute feat never before seen? In short, this in no way refutes my argument.

In conclusion, it's not vague thanks to the context and the word "Genesis," which doesn't indicate "the beginning" but "the creation of the world." And this world, as previously proven, is a universe with a space-time continuum, thanks to the fact that in Naruto/Boruto we know there is time and a timeline.

 

[DavidTPPM]

unreasonable skepticism, while a lot of arguments are, in fact, NLF assumption, so it is because i disagreed with a very high-end interpretation and NLF assumption, it is unreasonable skepticism?

If you want to call out a logical fallacy you actually have to explain how and why it is one. Which you didn't.

And they're not assumptions they're conclusions drawn from evidence we have. Those are 2 vastly different things.

?So you said it yourself, reality as a space-time continuum already exists. You proved my point

I didn't…? I said the exact opposite…?

Idk why did you cut out the very next line where I say this.

Reality ≠ spacetime continuum.

The term "reality" doesn't normally refer to a spacetime continuum.

Saying I proved your point while actively ignoring the part where I debunk it doesn't progress the conversation at all and only forces me to side track and repeat myself…

We don't accept a single interpretation when there are a lot of other interpretations.

This is objectively incorrect. We accept the most supported likely interpretation. Otherwise literally NO statement EVER could be used as any statement can be interpreted in multiple ways.

You could say a lot of interpretation, but without concrete evidence, it is moot, because we can't choose a single interpretation while discarding others

We can and we do it literally all the day. Every single profile that uses a statement for the justification of any rating does this. Hell many visual feats do so as well.

So again, it's still interpretation; you can't say something makes no sense while not having proof to back it up.

I can't say the word "world" meaning "the planet Saturn" makes no sense when I have no evidence?
My evidence is literally every single definition of the word "world".

I already said the term "Genesis," the creation of a world, means nothing; that term is extremely vague.

It's not extremely vague because we have a TON of context that removes that vagueness.

You said the planetary (or even solar system) interpretations would be extremely narratively inconsistent, so it is consistent with a verse jump from tier tier 4 to tier 2?,

The VERSE? Please, stop trying to twist what we're talking about.

This isn't the verse jumping by 2 tiers this is a "peerless being" that has reached something even the absolute highest top tiers consider "godhood" and became a 4D being.

So yes, a FOUR DIMENSIONAL BEING that is described as a peerless god becoming tier 2 absolutely 100% undeniably is consistent. Hell I will even say that a 4 dimensional being NOT being tier 2 is heavily questionable.

described as godly feats, mean nothing. like, what is it even mean in a large scheme of things? Even making a multi-solar system could be considered as godly to a solar system feat, the gap between solar system and a multi-solar system is extremely large, or galaxy feat, which is even larger

Again you're taking it out of context. The term "genesis of the world" CAN'T MEAN MULTI SOLAR SYSTEM.

So yes a 4-A creation could be considered a "godly feat" for Momoshiki but it wouldn't fit the statement we are talking about. Only universe creation and planet creation fit the statement and since it can't be planet it HAS to be the universe.

All and all, no offense to you, but your argument pretty much can be summed up as not choosing Low 2-C is unreasonable skepticism, yet you do not even provide any concrete proof of why we must choose Low 2-C

I did but you twisted half of what I said and ignored the other half.

Anyway, time to sleep, it is midnight in my timezone

Good night, sleep tight

 

[Ajun8sx]

Un scepticisme déraisonnable, alors que de nombreux arguments reposent en réalité sur l'hypothèse NLF ? Est-ce parce que je suis en désaccord avec une interprétation très poussée et l'hypothèse NLF que c'est un scepticisme déraisonnable ?


Vous l'avez donc dit vous-même : la réalité en tant que continuum espace-temps existe déjà. Vous avez confirmé mon point de vue.


Nous n'acceptons pas une seule interprétation lorsqu'il en existe de nombreuses autres. On pourrait parler de nombreuses interprétations, mais sans preuves concrètes, la question est sans objet, car on ne peut pas choisir une interprétation en en rejetant d'autres.


Donc, encore une fois, il s'agit d'interprétation ; on ne peut pas affirmer qu'une chose n'a aucun sens sans preuve à l'appui. J'ai déjà dit que le terme « Genèse », la création d'un monde, ne veut rien dire ; ce terme est extrêmement vague.

Vous avez dit que les interprétations planétaires (voire à l'échelle du système solaire) seraient extrêmement incohérentes narrativement. Est-ce donc cohérent avec un saut du niveau 4 au niveau 2 ? Les exploits décrits comme divins ne signifient rien. Que signifient-ils réellement dans un contexte plus large ? Même la création de plusieurs systèmes solaires pourrait être considérée comme un exploit divin par rapport à un système solaire, mais l'écart entre un système solaire et plusieurs systèmes solaires est immense, sans parler des exploits galactiques, qui sont encore plus grands.


En résumé, sans vouloir vous offenser, votre argument se résume à dire que ne pas choisir le niveau 2-C faible relève d'un scepticisme déraisonnable, sans que vous fournissiez la moindre preuve concrète justifiant ce choix. C'est pourquoi j'ai proposé le niveau « Inconnu » , car cet exploit peut être interprété de plusieurs manières. Je ne rejette pas votre interprétation, mais comme je l'ai déjà dit, le niveau 2 est strict et exige de mentionner l'implication de l'espace-temps, de la chronologie ou du temps lui-même.

Bref, il est temps de dormir, il est minuit dans mon fuseau horaire.

hell nah

 

[HelloThere1089]

This is getting exhausting ngl.

unreasonable skepticism, while a lot of arguments are, in fact, NLF assumption, so it is because i disagreed with a very high-end interpretation and NLF assumption, it is unreasonable skepticism?

Yes. It is unreasonable skepticism when the exact words used are 'Genesis' as in the biblical term, when Samlex posts the translations, when Naruto main universe is accepted to be universal in size and then you propose lower ends like planet, star, or solar system. I can understand the skepticism between 3A and Low 2C, but at least do the due diligence as a mod and read the arguments presented in the thread. In what world can planet and star be possible if the word implies creation of the world and the world is universal in size. And no, we have already given reasons why it cannot be a planet.

?So you said it yourself, reality as a space-time continuum already exists. You proved my point

No he didn't say that. He said reality pertains to 1A. So you can bring a low 2C structure into reality. Nobody proved your point. Not even you.

We don't accept a single interpretation when there are a lot of other interpretations. You could say a lot of interpretation, but without concrete evidence, it is moot, because we can't choose a single interpretation while discarding others

I can agree. But the evidence is pretty strong for either 3A or Low 2C. You proposing lower ends like planet, star, etc means you simply didn't go through the argument.

So again, it's still interpretation; you can't say something makes no sense while not having proof to back it up. I already said the term "Genesis," the creation of a world, means nothing; that term is extremely vague.

Is it? Genesis with the capital G is a biblical reference. Do you have evidence for it having meaning other than the birth of the universe and mean in the biblical sense at the same time?

You said the planetary (or even solar system) interpretations would be extremely narratively inconsistent, so it is consistent with a verse jump from tier tier 4 to tier 2?, described as godly feats, mean nothing. like, what is it even mean in a large scheme of things? Even making a multi-solar system could be considered as godly to a solar system feat, the gap between solar system and a multi-solar system is extremely large, or galaxy feat, which is even larger

This is very disappointing. A god making the verse jump from tier 4 to tier 2 has no consistency issues. Especially when he is stated to have created the main universe. Where is this even coming from? Both things are not the same. Momoshiki, Kaguya, Isshiki, these are normal Otsutsuki who are capable of creating solar system sized dimensions narratively speaking. We have plenty of evidence for this. THAT is why an omnipotent god being hyped up to do the same is narratively inconsistent. The scaling consistency you pointed out doesn't even exist because it is not like we are upgrading Naruto to low 2C or 3A. This is the literal god of the verse.

All and all, no offense to you, but your argument pretty much can be summed up as not choosing Low 2-C is unreasonable skepticism, yet you do not even provide any concrete proof of why we must choose Low 2-C. That's why i proposed Unknown rating due to the fact that the feat can be interpreted in multiple ways, i don't disregard your interpretation, but as i already said, tier 2 is strict and requires you to mention the involvement of space-time, timeline or time.

Anyway, time to sleep, it is midnight in my timezone

I hope you wouldn't get offended either when I say that your argument can be summed up as you not wanting to go through the hard work of assessing the evidence and simply going "it's unknown". It is at the bare minimum 3A because of the mention of "anything and everything". Riddle me this. If the main universe is accepted to be universal, and the god is stated to have created anything and everything in it, then how can it be star level? This with the biblical reference strongly points towards 3A or Low 2C as Genesis is accepted as the start of space and time as well

 

[Shi4njutsu]

unreasonable skepticism, while a lot of arguments are, in fact, NLF assumption, so it is because i disagreed with a very high-end interpretation and NLF assumption, it is unreasonable skepticism?


?So you said it yourself, reality as a space-time continuum already exists. You proved my point


We don't accept a single interpretation when there are a lot of other interpretations. You could say a lot of interpretation, but without concrete evidence, it is moot, because we can't choose a single interpretation while discarding others


So again, it's still interpretation; you can't say something makes no sense while not having proof to back it up. I already said the term "Genesis," the creation of a world, means nothing; that term is extremely vague.

You said the planetary (or even solar system) interpretations would be extremely narratively inconsistent, so it is consistent with a verse jump from tier tier 4 to tier 2?, described as godly feats, mean nothing. like, what is it even mean in a large scheme of things? Even making a multi-solar system could be considered as godly to a solar system feat, the gap between solar system and a multi-solar system is extremely large, or galaxy feat, which is even larger


All and all, no offense to you, but your argument pretty much can be summed up as not choosing Low 2-C is unreasonable skepticism, yet you do not even provide any concrete proof of why we must choose Low 2-C. That's why i proposed Unknown rating due to the fact that the feat can be interpreted in multiple ways, i don't disregard your interpretation, but as i already said, tier 2 is strict and requires you to mention the involvement of space-time, timeline or time.

Anyway, time to sleep, it is midnight in my timezone

Firstly like said before the "WORLD" of Naruto/boruto it's THE "WORLD" that we are talking about and we know that this "WORLD" it's a UNIVERSE WITH A TIMELINE so a Low 2-C structure. Momoshiki says "The World that We know" adn it's even said in The Road of Boruto and don't tell me "Oh the World that we know so the PLANET" cause Momoshiki doesn't only know the planet or any Ninja in Naruto knows only the Planet it's like assuming that Ninjas doesn't Stars,Galaxies... When it's clearly shown that the Naruto world has a Big Knowledge about Cosmological structures.
and don't say "we can have a lot of interpretations" when we are literally proving why we can't and you aren't explaining why we can btw.

 

[Tdjwo]

Yeah nah after reading DavidTPPM and Shi4njutsu's points, its completely undeniably and makes perfect sense that the feat is low 2C. I shouldn't see any reason why a confirmed 4D being performing the most godlike feat in context of creating the world should be limited to anything lower than a low 2C feat when we already have inferior characters creating larger than planetary bodies. This shouldn't be too hard to process.

Vietthai's point makes no sense lowkey. I dont even understand where they're getting most of their assumptions from.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm fine with Low 2-C Omnipotence. The statement can be interpreted in a way that affirms this conclusion, and I think it's logically supported. Shibai, while never explicitly stated to have created any separate realms, possesses the ability that allowed beings of similar existence to him, to create and give permanence to separate realms. And I believe these realms are separate realities, and not just separate celestial bodies, because Omnipotence has evidence and lore surrounding it that indicates this, in my view.

Omnipotence is an ability granted to entities who transcend the physical confines of the world. We currently accept this transcendental state as being 4-D in dimensionality. If a being of this nature is endowed with the ability to form reality to their will, a will that should be 4-D in existence, as nature is associated with will, I don't see the inconsistency or logical leap in saying that when "worlds" are brought up in this context, it couldn't include separate realities. We know entities of lesser capacity are capable of forming different realms that are capable of holding celestial bodies within them. it doesn't make sense why Omnipotence would be held in such high esteem in its capacity to give from and existence to "worlds" if lesser-dimensional beings can do the exact same. Omnipotence is spoken of as if mythical in its ability, while the capacities of people like Kaguya and Momoshiki are considered dramatically lesser then.

Once you factor in the biblical references to the ability, and that Genesis, as a word, has a very specific context within the Bible that directly talks about the world, in all of its constituents, coming into existence. Or you have Ada affecting things beyond a mere planetary or celestial range with a less powerful and uncontrolled version of Omnipotence. It becomes very difficult to say Momoshiki is only discussing smaller, finite creations. Everything in context with the ability seemingly indicates otherwise.

And for even further evidence of the Space-Time Continuum point. We know that Omnipotence is able to affect these structures as Space and Time Shinjutsu exist, and as Omnipotence is the pinnacle of Shinjutsu, with its ability to dictate and form reality to the will of the user, it should be able to manipulate these structures to a further degree compared to these lesser forms of Shinjutsu.

 

[Saqphire]

Crazy how "Shibai created everything in reality" just means "Shibai created most things in reality" according to Viet. Agree with supporters and disagree with his unreasonable skepticism FRA

 

[Kaydee1648]

I’m just gonna add that attempting to isolate “genesis” from its wider narrative or linguistic context results in an incomplete interpretation since the use of the term “genesis” carries a significant semantic weight when used to support an exoteric interpretation on the term “world” meaning universe. you can’t just ignore the whole context and say “the term genesis can also mean creation of solar system”, that just ignores the whole picture that said term is supposed to back up.

So yeah, David and HT fra.

 

[Samlex1234]

Oke, i'm back

But anyway, come back to your argument; while I could understand your interpretation, this is again mostly empty assumption without concrete backup.

Omnipotent is stated to create everything and anything; this line is extremely broad. Why must everything and anything be the space-time universe and not something else, like simply all objects in the universe, all matter, or something else entirely? Not only that but also directly in this scan



The bolded text literally means that reality already exists; Omnipotent just manifests other things into an already existing reality. This is completely go against your assumption that space-time universe was and can be created by Omnipotent

I’m not going to bother replying to the rest of your post it’s mostly mental gymnastics. Since you joined this thread, you’ve misread every scan and stretched every interpretation to fit a narrative that doesn’t exist, replacing canonical statements with speculation and headcanon.

Canonical Facts

• Omnipotence was used to create (創る / Tsukuru) the very word for “creating” the world (世界 / sekai) world, universe, or society. (Proven to be Universe)
• Omnipotence was described as the programming language for creation (創世 / Sōsei) literally “the creation or genesis of the world.”
• Omnipotence can rewrite reality - as demonstrated through Eida’s manifestation, which rewrote people’s memories.

Omnipotence isn’t limited to creation; it encompasses both Information Manipulation Type 2 and Reality Warping, both already recognized on the Wiki.


Now, regarding this point:

“An absolute will that manifests everything into reality.”
The bolded text literally means that reality already exists; Omnipotent just manifests other things into an already existing reality. This is completely go against your assumption that space-time universe was and can be created by Omnipotent

You are claiming that reality already existed and that Omnipotence merely adds things into it. Though omnipotence could also be used to rewrite reality (reality warping) like Eida did, you blantly misinterpreted that very scan.

The translation goes

何もかもを具現化する絶対の意思
“An absolute will that materializes everything.”
“An absolute will that makes everything real.”
or “An absolute will that manifests all things into reality.”

This means:

A will so absolute that whatever it desires becomes reality itself.

It’s not acting within a preexisting world, it’s making that will or desire real, transforming concept → existence, idea → reality.

That’s precisely why it’s called “the programming language for creation” because it converts will (the command) into reality (the executed result).

And finally, there’s a crucial distinction between the Omnipotence belonging to a god that is supposed to be Omnicience and Omnipotence in Nature, to Omnipotence used by Eida, one has absolute control and mastery existing in a Higher dimension and the other can't even control hers and only manifests them subconsciously..

 

[Nierre]

HelloThere Samlex and Deceived make the most sense to me here, so low 2-c with omnipotence is fine with me

 

[Godernet]

Coming in a little late (been busy recently)

But Deceived very concisely detailed what my stance on this would be.

So I agree.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I would like to add my two cents to this discussion.

Shibai is an entity who, within Naruto’s Buddhist framework, has been resurrecting again and again through Karma to consume chakra fruits. This is a direct reference to the journey of a being through the six Buddhist worlds, which are represented by the Six Paths, the Rinnegan, and the six states of reincarnation (Deva, Asura, Human, Animal, Preta and Naraka).

Every entity is subject to the limitation of desire, since all are within the framework of the wheel of reincarnation. However, contextually Shibai transcended the wheel and became a being beyond the physical world, losing his physicality in the process and becoming a God (a clear reference to Nirvana)

In context, it makes perfect sense that Shibai (a being who attained Nirvana and is completely external to the framework itself) would be capable of altering an entire universe through the world’s “programming language,” since even entities at a considerably lower level can perform creatio ex nihilo via Omnyōton while still bound to Samsara. I genuinely think the point about “genesis” is not particularly necessary to establishing Low 2-C.

Low 2-C should be the absolute minimum for Shibai. There is really no way to rate him below that without distorting the work’s message.

I agree with the thread.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Do you think he’s gonna handle all those hits?

I agree with the OP, by the way. Initially, I intended to add a few thoughts on why this ability reaches the supposed level, but given all the arguments already presented, I’ll refrain for now — though if new counterpoints come up, I might chime in.

 

[HelloThere1089]

OP you have enough votes now and the grace period is over. Apply the changes and get ts locked.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Let’s wait for if Viet has anything to respond with even if the votes are 4-1

 

[Vietthai96]

Firstly like said before the "WORLD" of Naruto/boruto it's THE "WORLD" that we are talking about and we know that this "WORLD" it's a UNIVERSE WITH A TIMELINE so a Low 2-C structure. Momoshiki says "The World that We know" adn it's even said in The Road of Boruto and don't tell me "Oh the World that we know so the PLANET" cause Momoshiki doesn't only know the planet or any Ninja in Naruto knows only the Planet it's like assuming that Ninjas doesn't Stars, Galaxies... When it's clearly shown that the Naruto world has a Big Knowledge about Cosmological structures.
and don't say "we can have a lot of interpretations" when we are literally proving why we can't and you aren't explaining why we can btw.

Just wake up and see a lot of replies, anyway, I'm fine with these new evidence now

Let's wait for if Viet has anything to respond with even if the votes are 4-1

You can go ahead and apply the thread, call me when you done so i can lock this

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Congrats, Shi4njutsu, you’ve managed to get two god-tier Naruto topics accepted with hardly any pushback — That’s not something you see every day, and you did it all in under a two month. That’s worthy of respect!

Keep it up.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Changes have been applied! if no issue persists this can be closed

Shibai Ōtsutsuki

Shibai Ōtsutsuki (大筒おおつつ木き シバイ, Ōtsutsuki Shibai?) is a figure said to have transcended into godhood after his consumption of several god trees over the course of several millennia in which he no longer has the use for a mortal body and instead transcended into a higher plane of existence. Tier...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Trihexa102]

Changes have been applied! if no issue persists this can be closed

Shibai Ōtsutsuki

Shibai Ōtsutsuki (大筒おおつつ木き シバイ, Ōtsutsuki Shibai?) is a figure said to have transcended into godhood after his consumption of several god trees over the course of several millennia in which he no longer has the use for a mortal body and instead transcended into a higher plane of existence. Tier...

vsbattles.fandom.com

what about range? or inter-dimensional works as well?
shouldn't it also apply to his mortal body as he also possessed it then.

 

[Nierre]

Changes have been applied! if no issue persists this can be closed

Shibai Ōtsutsuki

Shibai Ōtsutsuki (大筒おおつつ木き シバイ, Ōtsutsuki Shibai?) is a figure said to have transcended into godhood after his consumption of several god trees over the course of several millennia in which he no longer has the use for a mortal body and instead transcended into a higher plane of existence. Tier...

vsbattles.fandom.com

few things:


quotes come after the justification but still within the parenthesis. also "upto" should be "up to" in the Tier section

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

what about range? or inter-dimensional works as well?

Range would also be here as a consequence of the addition which I've added now after your comment, it won't be interdimensional because that is for when you skip universal distances which isn't happening here

shouldn't it also apply to his mortal body as he also possessed it then.

wasnt op's proposal and idc to argue it rn

few things:


quotes come after the justification but still within the parenthesis. also "upto" should be "up to" in the Tier section

fixed the up to, is it okay now?

 

[Skyloly]

beberapa hal:


tanda kutip muncul setelah pembenaran tetapi masih dalam tanda kurung. juga "upto" seharusnya "up to" di bagian Tier

I've already solved that little problem

 

[Nierre]

Range would also be here as a consequence of the addition which I've added now after your comment, it won't be interdimensional because that is for when you skip universal distances which isn't happening here

wasnt op's proposal and idc to argue it rn

fixed the up to, is it okay now?

sorry I said quotes and I meant citations/references

 

[Skyloly]

This thread has been accepted and implemented, we can close it.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Wow

 

[Vietthai96]

Closing