Feranmut Physiology + OA revisions (yeah let's try this again)

[AlipheeseXIV]

Hello everyone, today's CRT for Arknights is going to focus on the addition of Feranmut Physiology (again) as well as some minor revisions to the OA page.

• First, we are going to be removing God tier from OA and making it it's own page later down the line. However, how exactly we are going to handle that is to be seen. I'm still bringing it up in this thread, just know it's going to be it's own page but have everything remain the same.
• Secondly, we are going to be removing mind erasure, deconstruction & soul manipulation from high level OA users. As well as removing the "minor" tag from information manipulation on low level arts.
• Third, we are going to be adding NPI for NEP types 1 & 3 - Aspects Type 2 & 5 to mid tier arts users scaling from Angelina. Who is capable of permanently killing Collapsal's, who exist across all of space and time and as a result are unshackled to time and unbound by causality with a state of nonexistence that can become existence, possessing both dual "real" + "irreal" bodies. With the realm they reside in known as Kargereich being an infinite void and vacuum that corrodes all of existence, and is capable of collapsing order. With no concept of life or death or even passage of time, with the only thing being able to exist within it being information, with it being infinite blackness with no visible boundaries, no discernable direction, sound, light, shape, or color.
• Fourth, (edit: I am told this will probably be NEP erasure, so that also works) Angelina should have layered EE from this as she erased the existence of a NEP being. Unless I'm mistaken, that should be layered, though just "greater" or "enhanced" works too if it does not support a layer. (Yeah I know Angelina doesn't even have a profile yet lol, but just adding it here since it is relevant)

That about covers everything, I'll have profiles for Angelina and some Feranmuts done probably after this CRT is made along with the separated page for god tier OA (though we aren't sure what we'll be naming it just yet).

Agree: Kisaragi_Megumi, DarkDragonMedeus

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree here

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright to me from a glance.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm will read this in about two years from now

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I will be very happy if this takes longer than my PGR CRT.

 

[Vietthai96]

First, we are going to be removing God tier from OA and making it it's own page later down the line. However, how exactly we are going to handle that is to be seen. I'm still bringing it up in this thread, just know it's going to be it's own page but have everything remain the same.

This is oke

Secondly, we are going to be removing mind erasure, deconstruction & soul manipulation from high level OA users. As well as removing the "minor" tag from information manipulation on low level arts.

This is oke

Third, we are going to be adding NPI for NEP types 1 & 3 - Aspects Type 2 & 5 to mid tier arts users scaling from Angelina. Who is capable of permanently killing Collapsal's, who exist across all of space and time and as a result are unshackled to time and unbound by causality with a state of nonexistence that can become existence, possessing both dual "real" + "irreal" bodies. With the realm they reside in known as Kargereich being an infinite void and vacuum that corrodes all of existence, and is capable of collapsing order. With no concept of life or death or even passage of time, with the only thing being able to exist within it being information, with it being infinite blackness with no visible boundaries, no discernable direction, sound, light, shape, or color.

This is oke

Fourth, (edit: I am told this will probably be NEP erasure, so that also works) Angelina should have layered EE from this as she erased the existence of a NEP being. Unless I'm mistaken, that should be layered, though just "greater" or "enhanced" works too if it does not support a layer. (Yeah I know Angelina doesn't even have a profile yet lol, but just adding it here since it is relevant)

This is not oke, NEP EE =/= EE, you can't get more layer for EE simply by being able to EE character who is NEP

I will read the Physiology lage later, this gonna be a long long week

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

This is not oke, NEP EE =/= EE, you can't get more layer for EE simply by being able to EE character who is NEP

So I've been told, I heard you can get nonexistent EE for erasing the existence of a NEP being? Regardless, if it isn't accepted I'm fine with just adding a "greater" or "enhanced" tag.

I will read the Physiology lage later, this gonna be a long long week

Ok.

 

[Vietthai96]

So I've been told, I heard you can get nonexistent EE for erasing the existence of a NEP being?

NEP EE is fine, but not layered EE, because NEP EE is fundamentall different from normal EE

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

NEP EE is fine, but not layered EE, because NEP EE is fundamentall different from normal EE

I see, so when putting it down for her profile how exactly is it formatted in comparison to normal EE? Are there any example pages you know of that I can see?

 

[Vietthai96]

I see, so when putting it down for her profile how exactly is it formatted in comparison to normal EE? Are there any example pages you know of that I can see?

Just write Nonexistence Erasure, link the Nonexistent to Nonexistent Physiology and Erasure to Existence Erasure, and then write down Nature Type and Aspect Type of said Nonexistent being that can be and get erased, and then justification with scan. For example

Nonexistence Erasure (Nature Types 1, Aspect Types 2 [Concept] & 5 [Other: History, Space-Time; Justification here)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Just write Nonexistence Erasure, link the Nonexistent to Nonexistent Physiology and Erasure to Existence Erasure, and then write down Nature Type and Aspect Type of said Nonexistent being that can be and get erased, and then justification with scan. For example

Alright, thanks.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Vietthai96 what about now since you're around right now

 

[Vietthai96]

@Vietthai96 what about now since you're around right now

Currently reading, but ngl, it is slow, i'm attention is splitting across many things

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Currently reading, but ngl, it is slow, i'm attention is splitting across many things

Did you finally catch up?

 

[Vietthai96]

Did you finally catch up?

Lol, i think i getting farther than closer

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Vietthai96 are you done now?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[Vietthai96]

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics & Extrasensory Perception (Dusk and Nian are able to sense Ji within her painting that is an alternate dimension<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>)

ESP is fine, but why clump it with Superhuman Physical Characteristics when the justification didn't even have a scan or explanation for SPC. ESP should be in it own bullet point

• Magic (Feranmuts use abilities completely unrelated to Originium Arts<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a>)

The scan didn't say they use Magic, just because they use abilities that not related to Originium Arts doesn't mean it must be magic, you need scan where it say they uses magic

• Immortality (Types 1, 4, 7, 8 & 9) & Avatar Creation (Feranmut avatars are biologically immortal<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>, so long as their cores exists they cannot be truly killed. They are born from the chaotic void<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>, and use proxy's to interact with the world<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a>)

The scan for Immortality type 1 is weird; they say Shu body show reminiscent of aging, which contradicts type 1, the rest of this is fine

• Sealing, Power Bestowal & Power Nullification (Feranmuts are capable of sealing people within certain spaces<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-12"><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a> and are also able to bestow other people with their power, as shown when Dusk bestowed power to Zuo Le through her painting allowing him to temporarily hold his own against Ji<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-13"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a>)

I don't see Power Null, Sealing and Power Bestowal are fine

Non-Physical Interaction (Nonexistence Types 1 & 3 - Aspects 2 & 5, Spirits, Information Type 2 & Acausality Type 4

Acausality Type 4 isn't a non-physical thing, so you don't NPI it

• Limited Causality Manipulation & Magic (Even after the death of Jie, Chongyue, Wang, Ji, Nian, Ling, Shu & Dusk are capable of remembering her<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-28"><span>[</span>28<span>]</span></a> even though characters such as He Sheng were unable to remember Shu at all after she had completely died<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-29"><span>[</span>29<span>]</span></a>, though it should be noted that after hundreds to likely thousands of years Wang and the rest are slowly forgetting about Jie<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-30"><span>[</span>30<span>]</span></a>. With Feranmut death being "true death" as they are erased from history. Feranmut's can also resist each other's magic)

This isn't Limited Causality Manipulation, at best it is Acausality Type 1 or Limited Memory Erasure, they didn't directly resisted the erasure of causality; they just still remember a person who was erased

Magic is wrong too; no scan and i guess this resistance come from the Magic in the Uses section, which I disagree with.

• Void Manipulation (Feranmuts were born from the chaotic void<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-34"><span>[</span>34<span>]</span></a>)

Disagree, simply born from a void doesn't mean you get void resistance; you need more proof to prove that this void can affect even the beings they create and Feranmuts resisted it

• BFR, Sealing & Pocket Reality Manipulation (Chongyue is capable of physically destroying all of Dusk's paintings by just exercising<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-35"><span>[</span>35<span>]</span></a>, with the latter being able to create entire cities with a sun inside them<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-36"><span>[</span>36<span>]</span></a> as well as both Nian and Dusk being able to casually destroy multiple of her painted worlds in their fight<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlipheeseXIV/Feranmut_Physiology#cite_note-37"><span>[</span>37<span>]</span></a>)

You don't resist Pocket Reality Manipulation lol, and I disagree with BFR resistance because Chonggyue was BFR'ed into the painting; if they resisted the BFR, they wouldn't be thrown into the painting in the first place. Sealing resistance is fine

Any other things that i didn't comment on is fine too

 

[Vietthai96]

Also, how many characters are going to have Feranmut Physiology??

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

ESP is fine, but why clump it with Superhuman Physical Characteristics when the justification didn't even have a scan or explanation for SPC. ESP should be in it own bullet point

Do people actually care abt SPC when it's so blatant. I can add on to that.

The scan didn't say they use Magic, just because they use abilities that not related to Originium Arts doesn't mean it must be magic, you need scan where it say they uses magic

Well what else are their abilities gonna be if not magic if they have supernatural powers that allow them to manipulate aspects of reality that aren't related to arts? Never once on the wiki have I ever heard there being a rule where something needs to be called "magic" to qualify for the ability, in fact originium arts was originally classified as magic before I made an official page for it and it was never once called magic within the verse. So I don't see what reason there is to be so strict about this. Even more so when magic as officially detailed on the page is literally classified as "The ability to allow manipulating aspects of reality (or all of them), bypassing the known laws of physics." There's literally no way we are about to say that their abilities don't fall under the summary of the page are we?

The scan for Immortality type 1 is weird; they say Shu body show reminiscent of aging, which contradicts type 1, the rest of this is fine

That is the support, Shu lost a portion of her Feranmut abilities which resulted in her showing very small signs of aging, basically confirming that Feranmuts do not age since she only starts doing so after losing a portion of her physiology.

I don't see Power Null, Sealing and Power Bestowal are fine

The scan literally shows Ji saying "Now that I've been sealed within this painting, I am a simple tailor without the ability to so much as capture a fowlbeast" and the latter scan mentions Zuo Le only being able to fight Ji within the painting and there being "no difference" between them in the confines of the painting. This is very clearly not a sign of it just being do to sealing, otherwise there would be no reason for Ji to mention not even being able to catch an animal within the painting unless he was referring to being weakened. I guess it can be argued to be statistics reduction but its very clearly one of the two.

Acausality Type 4 isn't a non-physical thing, so you don't NPI it

That's true, this was made before the acausality 4 nerf from some time ago.

This isn't Limited Causality Manipulation, at best it is Acausality Type 1 or Limited Memory Erasure, they didn't directly resisted the erasure of causality; they just still remember a person who was erased

Sure.

Disagree, simply born from a void doesn't mean you get void resistance; you need more proof to prove that this void can affect even the beings they create and Feranmuts resisted it

I've never heard of this needing to be the case but ok. I guess you need further proof to safely assume fish can breathe under water beyond them being born in the ocean nowadays idk.

You don't resist Pocket Reality Manipulation lol, and I disagree with BFR resistance because Chonggyue was BFR'ed into the painting; if they resisted the BFR, they wouldn't be thrown into the painting in the first place. Sealing resistance is fine

Alright.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Also, how many characters are going to have Feranmut Physiology??

A lot

 

[Vietthai96]

Well what else are their abilities gonna be if not magic if they have supernatural powers that allow them to manipulate aspects of reality that aren't related to arts? Never once on the wiki have I ever heard there being a rule where something needs to be called "magic" to qualify for the ability, in fact originium arts was originally classified as magic before I made an official page for it and it was never once called magic within the verse. So I don't see what reason there is to be so strict about this. Even more so when magic as officially detailed on the page is literally classified as "The ability to allow manipulating aspects of reality (or all of them), bypassing the known laws of physics." There's literally no way we are about to say that their abilities don't fall under the summary of the page are we?

It isn't about being strict; not every ability can be assumed with concrete proof, like information hax you need to drop information or something equivalent. You can get a lot of abilities that warp reality that is still isn't magic

That is the support, Shu lost a portion of her Feranmut abilities which resulted in her showing very small signs of aging, basically confirming that Feranmuts do not age since she only starts doing so after losing a portion of her physiology

oke i guess

The scan literally shows Ji saying "Now that I've been sealed within this painting, I am a simple tailor without the ability to so much as capture a fowlbeast" and the latter scan mentions Zuo Le only being able to fight Ji within the painting and there being "no difference" between them in the confines of the painting. This is very clearly not a sign of it just being do to sealing, otherwise there would be no reason for Ji to mention not even being able to catch an animal within the painting unless he was referring to being weakened. I guess it can be argued to be statistics reduction but its very clearly one of the two.

Stats reduction is fine

That's true, this was made before the acausality 4 nerf from some time ago

even before the nerf, Aca 4 characters was never non-physical, if they was, it was because of other reasons, not because of Aca 4

I've never heard of this needing to be the case but ok. I guess you need further proof to safely assume fish can breathe under water beyond them being born in the ocean nowadays idk.

Fish is different; like what? False comparison. Like, when someone have time hax, we don't assume that they resist their own time hax because, of course the time hax should excluded the users

A lot

oke

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

It isn't about being strict; not every ability can be assumed with concrete proof, like information hax you need to drop information or something equivalent. You can get a lot of abilities that warp reality that is still isn't magic

I understand that but this isn't info hax, it's simply magic. Which functions under a completely different assumption and interpretation and by itself is nothing other than showing they have some sort of special non physical abilities. I really don't understand how you can disagree that they just have a form of magic that isn't even really all that OP. But whatever, idrc enough abt it to go back and forth.

Fish is different; like what? False comparison.

Not really, non standard breathing is something fish are automatically given because they are born in the ocean. Likewise, different sea creatures who are born deeper and deeper have natural resistance to the cold and high pressures of the ocean at that level, in the same vein I don't see why we would need further proof that characters born from a void would have resistance to the void...? Also how would we prove it can affect them? If it could affect them how would they even be born in the void? They'd die to it, lol it doesn't make sense to me but whatever you say I've already removed it.

Like, when someone have time hax, we don't assume that they resist their own time hax because, of course the time hax should excluded the users

I mean characters are assumed to have resistance to certain time abilities by default, but I disgress, apart from everything you disagreed with I trust you are fine with everything else? I have already modified the page to reflect your feedback and I'm sure I don't even need to ask that DDM will agree with your points, so if that's everything this thread can be closed now. As I was told by Grath from the previous thread that we only need 2 approvals.

 

[Vietthai96]

Not really, non standard breathing is something fish are automatically given because they are born in the ocean. Likewise, different sea creatures who are born deeper and deeper have natural resistance to the cold and high pressures of the ocean at that level, in the same vein I don't see why we would need further proof that characters born from a void would have resistance to the void...? Also how would we prove it can affect them? If it could affect them how would they even be born in the void? They'd die to it, lol it doesn't make sense to me but whatever you say I've already removed it.

No, fish have non-standard breathing due to their biology, they still need to develop those certain biology to live in the ocean, like how other creature evolves to adapt to their environment, these are proven thing scientifically

Come to the void, as i have said, we need to know what is the effects this void have, we can't simply give resistance to a being born from the void while this void have no known effects. Even if you want to use the ocean example, we know what the ocean does

I mean characters are assumed to have resistance to certain time abilities by default

Often, not always

I trust you are fine with everything else

Tbf, i not exactly agree with even Likely Absolute Zero since when i look at the profile that have that resistance, it just saying people resists being freeze into block of ice which is not necessarily Absolute Zero, but i disgress, i don't argue against things when they was accepted since it is on other profiles and not related to this thread so considering i'm fine with what i didn't mention

I have already modified the page to reflect your feedback

There is still Power Null, which i disagreed with, and i'm fine with your Stats Reduction suggestion

I'm sure I don't even need to ask that DDM will agree with your points

No, let ask him to re-evaluate. While this could potentially dragging your thread, you also have chance to outvote me. It isn't fair to you that you don't have a single chance to convince other staff to agree with your points

@Firestorm808 @Godernet

Sorry for the ping but your help is appreciated

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Tbf, i not exactly agree with even Likely Absolute Zero since when i look at the profile that have that resistance, it just saying people resists being freeze into block of ice which is not necessarily Absolute Zero, but i disgress, i don't argue against things when they was accepted since it is on other profiles and not related to this thread so considering i'm fine with what i didn't mention

Fair enough, I mean I didn't put the justification down and just linked it to the profile but on Frostnova's page she is accepted to likely have absolute zero for robbing the air of it's molecular vibrations. Also if you disagree with it might as well just put it out there, it's just a likely rating we weren't sure what else we could have put. We can remove it, it's not that serious.

There is still Power Null, which i disagreed with, and i'm fine with your Stats Reduction suggestion

I left it because you never gave an answer regarding whether you still disagreed with it and agreed more with stats reduction or not, I've changed it now.

No, let ask him to re-evaluate. While this could potentially dragging your thread, you also have chance to outvote me. It isn't fair to you that you don't have a single chance to convince other staff to agree with your points

I, or rather we as a collective genuinely do not care enough to drag on this thread for that. It's fine, we just want the thread over with atp. So if that's everything this can be closed, I've finished applying all your suggestions to the page.

 

[Vietthai96]

I, or rather we as a collective genuinely do not care enough to drag on this thread for that. It's fine, we just want the thread over with atp. So if that's everything this can be closed, I've finished applying all your suggestions to the page.

Oke i guess. Closing the thread now