DC Comics Hax/Abilities and Stats Fixing (Part 2)

[Lloydblitzed]

So bunch of DC profiles are in need of upgrades, especially in terms of hax/abilities and stats. This CRT will also propose a new keys for some characters

Spoiler: Aquaman

Limited Blood Manipulation: Can manipulate blood and turn it into spiky weapons throught the water contained in it - Aquaman (2025) #2
Non-Physical Interaction (Spirit): Can interact and rip apart an evil spirit - Aquaman (2025) #2
Enhanced Senses: Can sense a foreign spirit inside one's body - Aquaman (2025) #2
Resistance to Extreme Cold Temperatures: Can survive exrteme cold environements - Aquaman (2025) #3
Resistance to Extreme Hot Temperatures: Unfazed by lava - Aquaman (2011) #25

Spoiler: Raven (Abilities)

Range: Outerversal with BFR (Raven can seal and teleport someone to the Phantom Zone, which is located in the God Sphere, which we already accept as 1-A space) - Titans 2023 #7 and Map of the Multiverse
Non-Physical Interact with Information Manipulation (Type 2): Destroyed the Speed Force Wall, where matter is converted into pure information - Future State: Suicide Squad #2 and Final Crisis Vol 1 #6
BFR: Can trap people inside her soul self (She already has BFR on profile but just add this feat) - Titans (2023) #25
All of the Titans abilities - White Raven: After being amped by the Titans, she is shown to have access to their abilities as well - Titans (2023) #15
Ressurection - White Raven: Brought back Nightwing to life - Titans (2023) #15
Resistance to Mind Manipulation (3 layers) and Mind Manipulation Negation (3 layers) - White Raven: Resists and negates Psycho Pirate's Mind Manipulation with the help of Dr. Hate (the White Raven you see), who could previously affect her and take control of her - Titans (2023) #21

• Keep in mind she already scales to 2 layers on her profile, hence why I said 3 layers with the new scaling to Psycho Pirate

Resistance to Enhanced Ice Manipulation: Resists and counter Killer Frost attempt to freeze her blood and circuits, which affected Starfire - Titans (2023) #19

• Keep in mind Starfire herself already has ice resistances on her profile via scaling to Mr Freeze, so Raven should upscale to a greater potency of ice manip

Ice Manipulation and Matter Manipulation (Only annoyed after being hit by a blast from Mister Freeze's cold gun, who can freeze his victims solid and shatter vessels and capillaries)

Spoiler: White Raven (New key)

So Raven should get a new key scaling to at least 2-C. Let's get into details:

• Trigon and Dr Hate are both individually described as extinction level threat to Earth by Nightwing, requiring "all heroes on Earth" to stop them - Titans (2023) #14
  - Due to the situation and nature of these villains, characters such as Superman would have no reason to hold back against that kind of being
• Trigon no diffs the strongest heroes of the planets (including Rebirth Superman, marking him at 2-C) - Titans (2023) #15
• Raven merge with Dr Hate and become White Raven, getting far stronger - Titans (2023) #15
• Gets amped by the Titans too, proving she is indeed stronger in that form - Titans (2023) #15
• Absolutely stomps Trigon and eventually kills him - Titans (2023) #15

So based on all of this, White Raven should be 2-C

Spoiler: Lifting Strength

Johnathan Kent was able to fly past a black hole and basically escape it without much trouble - Future State: Superman/Wonder Woman (2021) #2

• This should grant him Class Y Lifting Strength, and this also means he lose his Class 5 rating

Yara Flor is also shown to be able to do the same (Already on profile) - Future State: Superman/Wonder Woman (2021) #2

So anyone scaling to Yara and John in LS should be upgraded to Class Y
Edit:
I've re-read the issue and he was able to affect/knock the Sun with a punch as well as challenge Solaris, a living Sun, to a test of Brute Strength, so the Black Hole thing can be replaced with the Stellar LS feat instead for Superboy

Spoiler: Bye Bye Low Tiers, Hello 4-B

So most of the 7-C and 5-A characters should just directly be scaling to 4-B

• Manta is scaled to Aquaman, who is listed at 4-B. To add consistancy, he can overpower both Raven and Starfire, who are also 4-B busters
• Aqualad is scaling to Manta, which should mark him at 4-B as well due to upscaling to Aquaman, Raven and Starfire
• Cyborg is listed at 5-A yet on his profile its said that he scales to Superman and Aquaman, yet both of these guys are 4-B, which should also make him 4-B by default
• Carter Hall is able to draw blood from Warsuit Luthor (who is 4-B) without any kind of amps
• Hawgirl upscales from Sky Tyrant (according to profile), who quickly recovered from an off-guard punch from Supergirl (who is 4-B) - Superman/Batman (2019) #4

This should affect anyone scaling to those characters or other 4-B characters

Spoiler: Superboy: Just be 4-B

Superboy should simply be MFTL+ directly as he can tag the likes of Wonder Woman (already on profile) and keep up with other characters like Starfire (Superman (2016) #38). His building level ratings should also removed since he is pretty consistanly shown (here, here and here) on the same level as other 4-B busters - Super Sons #2 2017, Superman (2016) #38, Superman #4 (2016) and Superman #6 (2016)

Spoiler: Add the Speed Calcs

Just add every new DC Post Flashpoint speed calc on profiles since the affected characters are all MFTL+ already and the calcs serves as supportives for them at that point

Agree: @Eseseso @Hellbeast @Ozcantabak @Excellence616 @Emirp sumitpo (Thinks Hawks should stay at 7-C. Agrees to the rest) @Armorchompy (Thinks Hawks should stay at 7-C and no comment on the rest. Neutral on Info Type 2. Neutral towards disagree on Black Hole feat (ig?). Agree with the rest) @Godernet (Same as Armorchompy) @Antvasima (Stellar LS)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Eseseso]

Looks good

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Looks good

Thx

 

[Hellbeast]

All looks good

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[Armorchompy]

For Manta, Aqualad and Cyborg their 5-A rating is just people failing to update the tiers so sure. However the Hawk people are very delibarately rated the way they are because most of the time (including in the scans posted) they scale to 4-Bs via their Nth Metal gear rather than their physicals. There's some situations in which they scale but also some antifeats so that's the way they are. So I disagree with them being always 4-B, they're too inconsistent. Hell even in the Hawkman scan Lex literally one-shots him lol

No opinions on the rest

 

[Lloydblitzed]

However the Hawk people are very delibarately rated the way they are because most of the time (including in the scans posted) they scale to 4-Bs via their Nth Metal gear rather than their physicals. There's some situations in which they scale but also some antifeats so that's the way they are. So I disagree with them being always 4-B, they're too inconsistent.

The Sky Tyrant he scale to has scaling to Superman in addition to Supergirl in physicals, Hawkgirl was considered among the strongest superheroes in the Justice League in Beast World and take a blow from a dragon capable of taking a hit from Supergirl in Hawkgirl. Its actually more consistant than you think

Hell even in the Hawkman scan Lex literally one-shots him lol

Lex hit him off-guard in the scan and then Joker needed some special tech to defeat him...(still drew blood from Lex)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I agree with Armor's points about the Hawks. The rest look fine tho.

 

[Armorchompy]

The Sky Tyrant he scale to has scaling to Superman in addition to Supergirl in physicals, Hawkgirl was considered among the strongest superheroes in the Justice League in Beast World and take a blow from a dragon capable of taking a hit from Supergirl in Hawkgirl.

Come on, the Sky Tyrant fight is him putting Superman in a chokehold. In no way is this consistent even with the other 4-B showings because at best the Hawks are comparable/inferior to mid-tier Leaguers, not stronger than the absolute strongest one.

Also "capable of taking a hit from Supergirl" means nothing, she holds back all the time, especially in urban areas. Also, again, Nth metal armor.

Its actually more consistant than you think

I made the profiles and read every single issue of post-52 Hawkpeople that was out at the time in doing so. I like to think I know them okay.

Lex hit him off-guard in the scan and then Joker needed some special tech to defeat him...(still drew blood from Lex)

Hawkman hit Lex off-guard and all he did was briefly inconvenience him. Lex hit Hawkman off-guard and immediately took him out of commission.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Come on, the Sky Tyrant fight is him putting Superman in a chokehold. In no way is this consistent even with the other 4-B showings because at best the Hawks are comparable/inferior to mid-tier Leaguers, not stronger than the absolute strongest one.

Even mid tiers like Starfire and Raven (who Dick considers amongs the strongest heroes along with Hawkgirl) got consistant 4-B showings. Idk how it makes sense for Hawkgirl to still be stuck at 7-C. And how does that disprove Sky Tyrant scaling to Supergirl? And her NTH armor wasn't even hit by the Dragon, but her whole body was

Also "capable of taking a hit from Supergirl" means nothing, she holds back all the time, especially in urban areas. Also, again, Nth metal armor.

4-B Supergirl is for when she holds back, otherwise she's 2-C

I made the profiles and read every single issue of post-52 Hawkpeople that was out at the time in doing so. I like to think I know them okay.

You made Hawkgirl's profile in 2021 when some of my args comes from Comics released 2 years later...

Hawkman hit Lex off-guard and all he did was briefly inconvenience him. Lex hit Hawkman off-guard and immediately took him out of commission.

Lex saw him coming and even warned Joker. No

 

[Armorchompy]

Even mid tiers like Starfire and Raven (who Dick considers amongs the strongest heroes along with Hawkgirl) got consistant 4-B showings. Idk how it makes sense for Hawkgirl to still be stuck at 7-C. And how does that disprove Sky Tyrant scaling to Supergirl? And her NTH armor wasn't even hit by the Dragon, but her whole body was

She's not stuck at 7-C, she's literally listed as peaking at 4-B. The scaling isn't disproved it's just inconsistent.

4-B Supergirl is for when she holds back, otherwise she's 2-C

She doesn't hold back at a static level of 4-B AP, that's obviously stupid. She modulates her power level depending on the threat and never goes all-out most of the time. And mind you her lower rating (which is 3-C and not 4-B, now that I'm looking at it) isn't for holding back, it's just her usual full power level, 2-C is only at her absolute peak.

You made Hawkgirl's profile in 2021 when some of my args comes from Comics released 2 years later...

So? This doesn't mean pre-existing anti-feats are invalid.

Lex saw him coming and even warned Joker. No

He didn't do anything to dodge or protect himself and took the hit right on the chin. That is taking someone off-guard, that is the DEFINITION of hitting someone past their guard lol.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Easy agree.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Bump

 

[GeneralSol16]

I agree with Armorchompy

Also, some of those scalings are too of a one ocassional fight to be considered as a valid "I'm on your level" scaling, I think if there was anything else to scale them, it'd be better, except for the Hawk people.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree with Armorchompy

Also, some of those scalings are too of a one ocassional fight to be considered as a valid "I'm on your level" scaling, I think if there was anything else to scale them, it'd be better, except for the Hawk people.

Aqualad: Knocks away Superboy, harms an amped Mera, hurts Scavenger (who is shown on Manta's lvl here and here) (And stuff from the OP)
Black Manta: Fought Mera and took attacks from her, brawled against Aquaman again, fights Aquaman AGAIN (And scaling to Aquaman, Raven and Starfire who are all 4-B via the OP)
Cyborg: Wisthand an attack from Superman, harms Shazam and draws blood from him by punching him, block an attack from UV John Steward and overpowers him, tackled Power Ring (Jessica Cruz) (And stuff from the OP)

These guys scaling to 4-B should not be considered as "one occassional scaling"

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Bump

 

[Hypertornado099]

Resistance to Enhanced Ice Manipulation: Resists and counter Killer Frost attempt to freeze her blood and circuits, which affected Starfire - Titans (2023) #19

Reword this to enhanced resistance to ice manip, and remove the "circuits" part, that was referring to Cyborg

 

[Hypertornado099]

Manta is scaled to Aquaman, who is listed at 4-B. To add consistancy, he can overpower both Raven and Starfire, who are also 4-B busters

This feat, from Teen Titans 2016 #11, was performed with an artifact Manta only had in his possession for a few pages. This is a feat of Manta breaking Raven's forcefield by throwing a rock at it, which would make it not solar system level anyways.

Johnathan Kent was able to fly past a black hole and basically escape it without much trouble - Future State: Superman/Wonder Woman (2021) #2

How close was he to the black hole?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This is a feat of Manta breaking Raven's forcefield by throwing a rock at it, which would make it not solar system level anyways.

No? Just like clashing with a regular sword wouldn't downscale the user, throwing something with 4-B force wouldn't downgrade anything either (he also overpowered them by blasting them, the rocks were just destroyed along the way)

How close was he to the black hole?

Inside

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Reword this to enhanced resistance to ice manip, and remove the "circuits" part, that was referring to Cyborg

Humans have blood circuits within their body, and she was talking to everyone here

 

[GeneralSol16]

Inside

Those kind of feats aren't usable for AP or dura purposes.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Those kind of feats aren't usable for AP or dura purposes.

Well, per our black hole page that can give him inf speed.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Those kind of feats aren't usable for AP or dura purposes.

Its used for Lifting Strength, not AP. Escaping a black hole's gravitational pull specifically is used for LS

 

[GeneralSol16]

Its used for Lifting Strength, not AP. Escaping a black hole's gravitational pull specifically is used for LS

Show me an example of that

 

[GeneralSol16]

Well, per our black hole page that can give him inf speed.

Which is a nonsense, contradictory bs.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Show me an example of that

Godzilla (Godzilla: The Half-Century War)

Dubbed by the newspapers as Godzilla and first appearing in 1954, this kaiju was the first in a wave of radiation-born monsters, and made consequent appearances across the world, rampaging through numerous towns and various other places, most notably Japan, Vietnam in 1967, Ghana in 1975 and...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Superman (New 52)

Superman, also known as Clark Kent and Kal-El, is a Kryptonian superhero. Though born on the planet Krypton, he was sent away in a spaceship as a baby to save him from his home planet's destruction. His spaceship landed on Earth in Smallville, Kansas, where he was found and adopted by Jonathan...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[GeneralSol16]

Godzilla (Godzilla: The Half-Century War)

Dubbed by the newspapers as Godzilla and first appearing in 1954, this kaiju was the first in a wave of radiation-born monsters, and made consequent appearances across the world, rampaging through numerous towns and various other places, most notably Japan, Vietnam in 1967, Ghana in 1975 and...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Superman (New 52)

Superman, also known as Clark Kent and Kal-El, is a Kryptonian superhero. Though born on the planet Krypton, he was sent away in a spaceship as a baby to save him from his home planet's destruction. His spaceship landed on Earth in Smallville, Kansas, where he was found and adopted by Jonathan...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Clark's rating doesn't come from the BH, but from him lifting the Earth for days. And Godzilla's should be revised, it looks weird.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Clark's rating doesn't come from the BH, but from him lifting the Earth for days.

The Black Hole feat was accepted in a CRT

And Godzilla's should be revised, it looks weird.

There are several other cases of characters getting LS from escaping/resisting Gravitationall Pull, like this. Also, the Black Hole push its force towards those trying to enter it, and Superboy is able to resist it to enter inside the BH's singularity and do his daily stuff

 

[GeneralSol16]

The Black Hole feat was accepted in a CRT

Nothing to do with what I said.
It's just a supportive feat, but the rating itself doesn't come from it.

There are several other cases of characters getting LS from escaping/resisting Gravitationall Pull, like this. Also, the Black Hole push its force towards those trying to enter it, and Superboy is able to resist it to enter inside the BH's singularity and do his daily stuff

That scan clearly shows that it doesn't work as a regular BH.
Heavely disagre with this.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

That scan clearly shows that it doesn't work as a regular BH.
Heavely disagre with this.

The only difference with that and regular black hole is that the process of absorbing matter by the Event Horizon is reversed by Superboy, how would that change anything about wisthanding the gravitational force?

A black hole is an astronomical object with a gravitational pull so strong that nothing, not even light, can escape it. A black hole’s “surface,” called its event horizon, defines the boundary where the velocity needed to escape exceeds the speed of light, which is the speed limit of the cosmos. Matter and radiation fall in, but they can’t get out.

Nothing to do with what I said.
It's just a supportive feat, but the rating itself doesn't come from it.

It does. The planet thing was listed as Class Z before the Black Hole upgrade

 

[Hypertornado099]

No? Just like clashing with a regular sword wouldn't downscale the user, throwing something with 4-B force wouldn't downgrade anything either (he also overpowered them by blasting them, the rocks were just destroyed along the way)

Inside

The feat was still done using an artifact, not Manta's own power. He doesn't use it afterwards, so at best its one time equipment

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The feat was still done using an artifact, not Manta's own power. He doesn't use it afterwards, so at best its one time equipment

Even by ignoring that feat, let alone him scaling to Aquaman is enough for 4-B

 

[AigerTheKing]

I agree with the staff guys (I don't really read comics but their arguments make sense)

 

[Rgerdeena]

I agree with everything except hawkman and hawkgirl being upgraded

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Catzlaflame @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @DarkDragonMedeus @Eficiente @Adr10K @Rex_Eckles @Rosa

What do you all think about this?

 

[GeneralSol16]

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Catzlaflame @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @DarkDragonMedeus @Eficiente @Adr10K @Rex_Eckles @Rosa

What do you all think about this?

I've already said what I think about this.
The only problems I have are with the Hawks upgrade, aside from that, looks aight, assuming the scaling itself is consistent enough.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

If Hawkgirl and Hawkman are only being scaled to New 52 characters, shouldn't their profiles specify that?

 

[Armorchompy]

That's not what's going on, a lot of profiles aren't properly updated with the split between 4-B and 3-C

 

[Rex_Eckles]

That's not what's going on, a lot of profiles aren't properly updated with the split between 4-B and 3-C

So, why are the Hawks only 4-B again?

 

[GeneralSol16]

That's not what's going on, a lot of profiles aren't properly updated with the split between 4-B and 3-C

Because they don't scale at all.
A lot of N52 scaling comes from Rebirth, where they're supooslh Tier 3, even tho they're clearly closer to being Tier 4.
So that should be fixed