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GRACE [0-7-0] Let future Trunks check this out - Manga Gohan vs. Toei Freeza

Nonynho

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Post research: If we want them to be in the same realm, Toei would be represented by 3rd form Freeza (Frieza - Garlic Jr. Saga)
and Manga would be represented by either Perfect Cell Saga Base Gohan or 50% of SSJ1 Goku

Why those specifically? Simple.
According to this 23900 Quettatons = 1 Foe, and 1 KiloQuettaton = 1000 Quettatons, of course
So when 25.29 KiloQuettatons (1,06 Foe) is the last thing before the Toei chain starts talking about Exafoes and the last time things are around 1 Foe at the manga chain is 1.31625 before they get to too many Foe...yeah, that's where they match

Manga Gohan is in his third key, transformations are restricted
Toei Frieza's in his first key, Final Form and 100% power are both restricted, and he starts already in the Third Form.
Equal speed, fight's at ToP arena

-Even though you’re evil… I really have no desire to kill you. -

-Thank you for waiting... Now, if you're ready, let's begin round two, shall we? - @noninho, @TegamiBachi25, @XSOULOFCINDERX, @MannyQ361, @Supersonicmaker, @Mickey1940, @BlackDarkness679

- (Incon)
 
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Well, since this is Frieza, Gohan would most likely go for the kill, and he's also more skilled at this point. Though this Frieza has a lot more techniques than his manga self
 
They don't know 100% each other's kits, but:

-yeah, Gohan's very competent in martial arts, is it enough to overwhelm Freeza?

-What is Gohan doing about Freeza exploding him from the inside with dura-neg?

-how IC is Freeza's Paralysis?
 
They don't know 100% each other's kits, but:

-yeah, Gohan's very competent in martial arts, is it enough to overwhelm Freeza?

-how IC is Freeza's Paralysis?
By paralysis with the imprisonment ball? He did that to Goku (toei frieza had him kicking around goku a bit more to torture him instead of launching him but it goes the same for both continuities when he launched goku away but goku managed to escape). Pretty certain, he would definitely go for imprisonment ball if he wanted to torture Gohan, and Gohan doesn't seem to have resistances to it like either his manga or toeiverse father. Gohan has fought frieza before so he would sort of have an idea what frieza could do. (even if he only really damaged him via rage boost)
-What is Gohan doing about Freeza exploding him from the inside with dura-neg?
I don't think Frieza did this in character at all. He wants to torture opponents. He only did that to Krillin because he wanted Goku to see everyone he cared about die one by one and make Goku suffer.
 
I'm leaning towards Gohan atm but still not voting yet. His PTSD induced rage just might kick in since this Gohan literally already know Frieza killed Krillin and just give him rage amps and Gohan really doesn't like Frieza either.
 
By paralysis with the imprisonment ball? He did that to Goku (toei frieza had him kicking around goku a bit more to torture him instead of launching him but it goes the same for both continuities when he launched goku away but goku managed to escape). Pretty certain, he would definitely go for imprisonment ball if he wanted to torture Gohan, and Gohan doesn't seem to have resistances to it like either his manga or toeiverse father. Gohan has fought frieza before so he would sort of have an idea what frieza could do. (even if he only really damaged him via rage boost)

I don't think Frieza did this in character at all. He wants to torture opponents. He only did that to Krillin because he wanted Goku to see everyone he cared about die one by one and make Goku suffer.
So what's stopping Frieza from paralyzing and dura-neg'ing Gohan?
I mean, he'd love to end each and every saiyan, specially being able to tell Goku later that he killed his son

I'm leaning towards Gohan atm but still not voting yet. His PTSD induced rage just might kick in since this Gohan literally already know Frieza killed Krillin and just give him rage amps and Gohan really doesn't like Frieza either.
He'd have to react to Freeza's torture attempt first, no? How would he be doing that?
 
If Freeza is not stomping due to the paralysis and explosion combo, i'm still leaning towards him, Gohan's rage would make him get reckless and i don't think that would make him respond that well to Freeza's kit. Also not voting yet, but still
 
If Freeza is not stomping due to the paralysis and explosion combo, i'm still leaning towards him, Gohan's rage would make him get reckless and i don't think that would make him respond that well to Freeza's kit. Also not voting yet, but still
Frieza won't dura neg in character. He never used Psycho Death Bomb ic even against Goku at all, despite the fact he could fully just use it to kill Goku. Imprisonment ball is more likely to happen since Frieza would want to torture gohan.
 
Frieza won't dura neg in character. He never used Psycho Death Bomb ic even against Goku at all, despite the fact he could fully just use it to kill Goku. Imprisonment ball is more likely to happen since Frieza would want to torture gohan.
Again, if he'd want to torture Gohan, why not end him so that he could tell it to Goku later?
Also, if Imprisonment ball is probable, and Gohan's prone to raging, that'd give Freeza at least an edge, if not the entire possibility of an IK from the bomb, no?
 
Taking another close look at Freeza's profile, i unfortunately cast my vote at him.
-Both are master level at ki manip
-Both are master martial artists
-Both are quite prone to rage, but Freeza should be more experienced
-Gohan has no response to paralysis, danmaku or if Freeza decides to use the bomb
-The thing that can crew Freeza is a well put Kamehameha, but usually it has quite the easy answers
 
The only one Frieza bombed was Krillin, and he doesn't use paralysis in character at all (Just check every possibility Frieza had against Goku), so those points aren't exactly great.

Gohan recognizes Frieza while Frieza wouldn't be able to tell that's Gohan, and if he is, he isn't going to take Gohan seriously at all, but one other important thing to mention: No range is given, so they start at Planetary range (Or at the edge of the ToP arena), Frieza won't be able to sense Gohan, Gohan will be able to sense Frieza.

You can say both are prone to rage but Gohan needs something else to provoke said rage, Gohan won't just go into rage if he's losing, only if something he cares about is hurt, so that point is not exactly relevant.

Gohan would be able to sense they are about even, so his Kamehameha would be his best bet, experience wise, I don't know if it really matters considering Gohan can match the likes of Goku and Cell, who can match Frieza, so that is not very relevant.

Overall, I would give this to Gohan more often then not, Frieza has the LS advantage, but this form is more centered around ranged combat so he wouldn't attempt that, people in Dragon Ball can reflect ki blasts with their palms and I don't doubt Gohan can do that, and Gohan can likely try to bait a Kamehameha to turn the tides of a very close battle
 
Gohan would be able to sense they are about even, so his Kamehameha would be his best bet, experience wise, I don't know if it really matters considering Gohan can match the likes of Goku and Cell, who can match Frieza, so that is not very relevant.
Actually, would he? The power levels haven't changed at all, it's just the anime continuity has much larger feats to calculate, so if anything that might actually tell him that this will be easy and he might go in totally unprepared to be blindsided by a Frieza who's basically equal to him.
 
Actually, would he? The power levels haven't changed at all, it's just the anime continuity has much larger feats to calculate, so if anything that might actually tell him that this will be easy and he might go in totally unprepared to be blindsided by a Frieza who's basically equal to him.
Gohan can sense how powerfull others are, he'll sense he is stronger then when he fought him on Namek
 
Gohan can sense how powerfull others are, he'll sense he is stronger then when he fought him on Namek
Again, he technically isn't because he still has the exact same power level that he has in the manga, he just has better feats. It's a really weird grey area I've been meaning to ask about lately since it is a really specific issue that solely Dragon Ball Z has to deal with.
 
Again, he technically isn't because he still has the exact same power level that he has in the manga, he just has better feats. It's a really weird grey area I've been meaning to ask about lately since it is a really specific issue that solely Dragon Ball Z has to deal with.
I think it wouldn't be 1 to 1, their measuring stick changed, I think it would be like Fahrenheit and Celsius, the numerical power one needs to blow up a Star is smaller in one end, but higher in the other, but they are basically the same

Besides, Ki sensing is much more spiritualistic then the Scouters, unless there is a consensus I think Gohan being able to sense how much stronger Frieza is should be assumed
 
I think it wouldn't be 1 to 1, their measuring stick changed, I think it would be like Fahrenheit and Celsius, the numerical power one needs to blow up a Star is smaller in one end, but higher in the other, but they are basically the same

Besides, Ki sensing is much more spiritualistic then the Scouters, unless there is a consensus I think Gohan being able to sense how much stronger Frieza is should be assumed
I'm not referring to Scouter power levels, I'm going by official material given to us that doesn't come from Scouters. Also Scouters have always been accurate with the numbers they give, its just that they can only detect what a person is currently outputting so if the fighter is hiding their ki then it won't show their real strength. Regardless I think ignoring this possibility is disingenuous because its literally Name Saga Frieza with a power level of a million+ and that's what Gohan would be sensing.
 
The only one Frieza bombed was Krillin, and he doesn't use paralysis in character at all (Just check every possibility Frieza had against Goku), so those points aren't exactly great.
Unlike with Goku, whose powers he saw as close to his own and felt threatened, he's more likely to try and torture and/or kill Gohan to provoke Goku, just like he did with Krillin (i hate his name's spelling in english bruh)

Gohan recognizes Frieza while Frieza wouldn't be able to tell that's Gohan, and if he is, he isn't going to take Gohan seriously at all, but one other important thing to mention: No range is given, so they start at Planetary range (Or at the edge of the ToP arena), Frieza won't be able to sense Gohan, Gohan will be able to sense Frieza.
SBA cap is at 4km, and as a master ki user, Freeza is able to sense him at this range, 100%

You can say both are prone to rage but Gohan needs something else to provoke said rage, Gohan won't just go into rage if he's losing, only if something he cares about is hurt, so that point is not exactly relevant.
Gohan's prone to rage against Freeza cuz he hates him, he killed his friend and scared him shitless few years ago, almost killing everyone he cared about. I wasn't speaking about it being a thing only if he's losing lol.
And Freeza is also cuz at that moment he'd love to kill every goku relative possible, and seeing that the boy is at his level would infuriate him lmao.

Gohan would be able to sense they are about even, so his Kamehameha would be his best bet, experience wise, I don't know if it really matters considering Gohan can match the likes of Goku and Cell, who can match Frieza, so that is not very relevant.
It would hurt Freeza quite a bit, if it hit him, but yeah, Freeza's hits can also do it, not that relevant, as you said

Overall, I would give this to Gohan more often then not, Frieza has the LS advantage, but this form is more centered around ranged combat so he wouldn't attempt that, people in Dragon Ball can reflect ki blasts with their palms and I don't doubt Gohan can do that, and Gohan can likely try to bait a Kamehameha to turn the tides of a very close battle
By reiterating that he's more ranged-focused, you basically confirmed that he may be attempting the paralysis, likely the paralysis+bomb combo, if a kamehameha connected without killing him
Also, with the LS advantage, the kill is very likely to be just like the Krillin one in that case

Actually, would he? The power levels haven't changed at all, it's just the anime continuity has much larger feats to calculate, so if anything that might actually tell him that this will be easy and he might go in totally unprepared to be blindsided by a Frieza who's basically equal to him.
But he's got ki sensing, they'd both check each other's power level out

Again, he technically isn't because he still has the exact same power level that he has in the manga, he just has better feats. It's a really weird grey area I've been meaning to ask about lately since it is a really specific issue that solely Dragon Ball Z has to deal with.
Yeah, but he'll sense that now he's as powerful as that Freeza form, so he'll be going for it, just not unprepared, unless he's immediately enraged...which is not impossible i guess
 
But he's got ki sensing, they'd both check each other's power level out


Yeah, but he'll sense that now he's as powerful as that Freeza form, so he'll be going for it, just not unprepared, unless he's immediately enraged...which is not impossible i guess
I know he has Ki Sensing, but that will just tell him that Frieza's power is the same as it was on Namek. The Ki Sensing and the Scouter readings are identical, I don't understand why no one gets this. The only problem with Scouter readings is that they can be tricked by lowering the power level since they only read what's currently being outputted but aside from that minor caveat, every Scouter reading is 100% accurate and 1 to 1 with Ki Sensing. This means Gohan is gonna be totally caught off-guard by pulling up on Frieza and trying to one-shot him, only to have the fight of his life against a Frieza who's equal to him.
 
This means Gohan is gonna be totally caught off-guard by pulling up on Frieza and trying to one-shot him, only to have the fight of his life against a Frieza who's equal to him.
Scouter = Ki Sensing, we're on the same page there
But ain't Gohan sensing that the power is still the same one that he felt before, but recognize that it's comparable to his current one?
There won't be this quite specific surprise ur mentioning, because it's quite logic to sense the fella and compare it to your own current power
 
Also, SoC, with this scouter talk and etc, would you be inclined to Freeza's side? couldn't quite get if that's the case
 
Scouter = Ki Sensing, we're on the same page there
But ain't Gohan sensing that the power is still the same one that he felt before, but recognize that it's comparable to his current one?
There won't be this quite specific surprise ur mentioning, because it's quite logic to sense the fella and compare it to your own current power
Yeah, he would it compare it to his current power and feel that he should be able to one-shot him. That's what I'm saying. Nothing about Frieza's existence or presence changed, he's just from an alternate continuity that has better feats for the same power levels the manga has.
 
Yeah, he would it compare it to his current power and feel that he should be able to one-shot him. That's what I'm saying. Nothing about Frieza's existence or presence changed, he's just from an alternate continuity that has better feats for the same power levels the manga has.
Why would he feel that he can one shot him if their power levels are basically the same? He could reach the conclusion that he's from that time and haven't grown stronger if he didn't use his sensing, which would be a silly mistake

I think Freeza wins here, but i can't really grasp this, again, quite specific point as being true
 
Why would he feel that he can one shot him if their power levels are basically the same? He could reach the conclusion that he's from that time and haven't grown stronger if he didn't use his sensing, which would be a silly mistake

I think Freeza wins here, but i can't really grasp this, again, quite specific point as being true
HE WOULD STILL FEEL THE SAME POWER LEVEL RADIATING FROM FRIEZA BECAUSE HE'S NAMEK SAGA FRIEZA! HIS ACTUAL AP AND DURABILITY ARE JUST DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGHER THAN HIS POWER LEVEL WOULD TELL GOHAN! WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND?! IT'S SIMPLE AS THAT!
 
HE WOULD STILL FEEL THE SAME POWER LEVEL RADIATING FROM FRIEZA BECAUSE HE'S NAMEK SAGA FRIEZA! HIS ACTUAL AP AND DURABILITY ARE JUST DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGHER THAN HIS POWER LEVEL WOULD TELL GOHAN! WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND?! IT'S SIMPLE AS THAT!
Wow, ok, ok, geez

Voting Freeza or just inclined for now?
 
I'm leaning towards Frieza because he has a wider variety of attacks than Gohan does and for potentially catching him off-guard with the power level thing.
 
how much stronger are Gohan and Frieza relative to the calcs on their profile?
Both scale to roughly 1 Foe, idk about the profile calcs, just checked the scaling chains for both toei and canon

alright. Space racist FRA then
Counted

I'm leaning towards Frieza because he has a wider variety of attacks than Gohan does and for potentially catching him off-guard with the power level thing.
Will be counting that as a vote, tell me if that's not right and i remove it
 
Both scale to roughly 1 Foe, idk about the profile calcs, just checked the scaling chains for both toei and canon
Frieza is potentially several times stronger than the calc he scales to since we don't know how much stronger his Third Form is compared to his second

meanwhile Gohan seems to just scale to the calc on his profile

meaning Frieza should be significantly stronger
 
Frieza is potentially several times stronger than the calc he scales to since we don't know how much stronger his Third Form is compared to his second

meanwhile Gohan seems to just scale to the calc on his profile

meaning Frieza should be significantly stronger

I'm not asking y'all to read complicated stuff, like science papers or something alike, just @Ednaxel2's amazing work in blogs
Whose results i've also put in OP
  • Gohan is superior to his Majin Buu Saga self: >1.31625 Foe (Large Star level)

    1.31625 / 1.06 = ~1.242x diff for Gohan's side
 
Wanna debate this match again?
Ppfw0ry.jpeg
 
I'm not asking y'all to read complicated stuff, like science papers or something alike, just @Ednaxel2's amazing work in blogs
Whose results i've also put in OP
So according to this, Gohan is unquantifiably stronger than 1.3 ish Foe, with no transformations or translations or otherwise to inflate that value at all

Frieza is unquantifiably stronger than 1.06 Foe, but that number can potentially be expanded upon several times over due to the nature of his Third Form's potential for a higher multiplier

for example, if Frieza's third for multiplier was a x3 multiplier instead of a x2, he would be at 1.5 ish foe, making him much closer to if not above Gohan's power

x4 and above and Frieza eclipses Gohan even more

meaning Frieza's potential AP is WAY higher than gohan's since his third form multiplier is a generous lowball

meaning Frieza should actually have the AP advantage

I don't know if this interpretation is valid but that's just my opinion
 
Afaik whenever we have this case, we use the value presented
Which we are doing rn
welp

in that case Gohan should just outskills

Frieza isn't a competent martial artist in this key. He's not BAD at fighting but he's not exactly good since he just uses his massive girthy power level and slaps every on the face with it

he did quite well against Goku but again he was several times stronger than he was at the time. Once Goku started overpowering him as a super saiyan Frieza wasn't able to do much, even at 100%

No formal training, fewer techniques, Gohan having prior knowledge, and being slightly weaker all makes this fight lean towards Gohan
 
No formal training, fewer techniques, Gohan having prior knowledge, and being slightly weaker all makes this fight lean towards Gohan
Even if Gohan can't do anything if Freeza decides to TK? Or Paralysis? Or the bomb?

I mean, if Gohan's able to put a good enough Kamehameha he has a chance, but Freeza just has a too good of a kit and is in a ranged focused key, from what someone said before
 
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