Izuku Midoriya VS Kris Dreemurr: Heroes of Hope

[Bruhtelho]

Dark Hero Arc 30% Deku and Dark World (Chapter 4) Kris are used

Fight takes place within a Dark World that was created inside U.A. High School

Speed is Equalized

Kris only has access to his standard equipment

Both start 30 meters apart​

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The One For All Hero, Deku:3 (Machmatej, Anonymous_Learner, JoeDM021)

The Hero of Light, Kris: 2 (LittleGuy99, Catbowtie)

Inconclusive:0

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[CastoriceTheFifth]

Following

 

[Bruhtelho]

Stats for both

Deku is 2.15 Megatons in AP which becomes 10.75 Megatons when he activates Fa-Jin. he also has 42.37 Petatons Dura on his arms and legs via the Mid-Gauntlets and Iron Soles

Kris is 6.3 megatons with X-Slash and his Shield being higher

 

[LittleGuy99]

Following

 

[JoeDM021]

Following

 

[MANOFGOD7]

Following

 

[Machmatej]

Not too familiar with Deltarune but I'll try to defend Deku. What are Kris' hax looking like?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku upscales from his value heavily as his 30% is way stronger than his 20% where the value comes from.

And Kris’s physicals are downscaling from the Titan who is baseline 7-B yeah? So the difference in strength isn’t as high as you might think from the values posted, they’re closer than it seems. Kris is still stronger but not overwhelmingly, and the difference is definitely settled by High 6-A shielding for Deku to block any of the attacks. And of course it massively swings in Deku’s favor when he uses a fully charged Fa Jin.

Kris seems to win out in LS even with Deku upscaling from his value, so Blackwhip isn’t gonna be useful for restraining. Delegated to swings and charge ups.

It seems like the only hax Deku has to watch out for is the Piroutte move? Everything else either can be avoided or resisted with his supernatural willpower as things like social influence or making him somewhat sleepy aren’t really doing anything to him. Unless of course I’ve missed a hax.

Also… I don’t see an answer to Smokescreen. Deku can pop that at anytime and Kris can only blind attack at him, even with ignoring distance. So that’d be one way to just not get hit if he wants to, though Deku can still just block attacks by sensing them before hand with Danger Sense.

 

[LittleGuy99]

I said this elsewhere, but Kris didn't have access to his Chapter 4 abilities, so I added more information

First, with Check, Kris can find Deku's weaknesses and form a strategy on how to defeat him.

With Pirouette, Kris can deplete Deku's stamina and tire him out, lower his defense, lower his strength, and since this is not turn-based, Kris can do this constantly with the only disadvantage being the possibility of increasing Deku's strength for one turn, which I believe would only be one attack

With Hypnosis, Kris would only have to give him a strange look, and Deku would get tired and lose strength much faster.

Kris's best strategy would be to keep their distance, attacking with danmaku in Yellow Mode, shooting hearts with Sharpshoot, and attacking from a distance with their normal attacks and X-Slash. With TrapOne can also throw red cages along the way and even trap Deku like small obstacles.

Defensively, Kris can use their shield to protect themself from most attacks, with Weather Items can summon objects of indefinite quantity to protect their body or soul, and to be extra sure, Kris can increase their speed with HoldBreath and ScaredyCat

Another possibility is that Kris can summon allies if they needs them, such as Lancer, who has already helped them on previous occasions. and Rouxls Kaard would help if Lancer is involved (And Starwalker)
Since Kris doesn't have access to their optional equipment, they can't summon Spamton or Jevil. I'm not sure if the summoning will be restricted here, but if not, Rouxls Kaard can help with his Rule Card by preventing Deku from attacking, using items, or using magic.

One last funny possibility would be that Kris wins through ACTs and social influence, a pacifist ending

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Not too familiar with Deltarune but I'll try to defend Deku. What are Kris' hax looking like?

They got a lot:

• Each one of their attacks target the soul directly
• Said attacks ignore distance and basically just spawn on top of the opponent's location, they can still be dodged by reading their sword movement but it will still be tricky
• Can weaken and make Deku tired with Pirouette and Hypnosis
• In Yellow Mode, Kris can spam Big Shots (Which are x3 Kris' speed) without any movement on their part.
• Have two noticeable speed amps with HoldBreath and ScaredyCat
• And probably the biggest one, their SOUL is possessed by an extradimensional being that will rewind time and redo the fight until they win, or till it gives up trying.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I said this elsewhere, but Kris didn't have access to his Chapter 4 abilities, so I added more information

First, with Check, Kris can find Deku's weaknesses and form a strategy on how to defeat him.

With Pirouette, Kris can deplete Deku's stamina and tire him out, lower his defense, lower his strength, and since this is not turn-based, Kris can do this constantly with the only disadvantage being the possibility of increasing Deku's strength for one turn, which I believe would only be one attack

With Hypnosis, Kris would only have to give him a strange look, and Deku would get tired and lose strength much faster.

Kris's best strategy would be to keep their distance, attacking with danmaku in Yellow Mode, shooting hearts with Sharpshoot, and attacking from a distance with their normal attacks and X-Slash. With TrapOne can also throw red cages along the way and even trap Deku like small obstacles.

Defensively, Kris can use their shield to protect themself from most attacks, with Weather Items can summon objects of indefinite quantity to protect their body or soul, and to be extra sure, Kris can increase their speed with HoldBreath and ScaredyCat

Another possibility is that Kris can summon allies if they needs them, such as Lancer, who has already helped them on previous occasions. and Rouxls Kaard would help if Lancer is involved (And Starwalker)
Since Kris doesn't have access to their optional equipment, they can't summon Spamton or Jevil. I'm not sure if the summoning will be restricted here, but if not, Rouxls Kaard can help with his Rule Card by preventing Deku from attacking, using items, or using magic.

One last funny possibility would be that Kris wins through ACTs and social influence, a pacifist ending

They got a lot:

• Each one of their attacks target the soul directly
• Said attacks ignore distance and basically just spawn on top of the opponent's location, they can still be dodged by reading their sword movement but it will still be tricky
• Can weaken and make Deku tired with Pirouette and Hypnosis
• In Yellow Mode, Kris can spam Big Shots (Which are x3 Kris' speed) without any movement on their part.
• Have two noticeable speed amps with HoldBreath and ScaredyCat

Deku’s weakness is… the danger sense range limit? And his emotional state depending on what time Kris is fighting him? He doesn’t really have any exploitable weakness, how detailed is the Check ability?

Piroutte seems rng so its effectiveness is kinda funky. Lowering attack/defense is the main thing and they don’t seem to last forever. So with the rng odds, Deku just has to figure out when to fight and when not too. Doesn’t really do much if he focuses on defense or dodging since -4 Def is likely nothing to his High 6-A gauntlets.

Hypnosis can just be avoided by him not looking. Like, he just closes his eyes. And beyond that, Jevil needed 9 hypnosis to fall asleep. Deku is capable of fighting for a month straight with no sleep. I imagine it’s gonna take more than 9 of them.

A lot of his normal attacks or other abilities can similarly be dodged due to Danger Sense alerting him ahead of time, or by using his superior mobility to just stay on the move. Analytical Prediction also means he can eventually just start predicting what move Kris is going to go for and attack while they have no TP, as he will inevitably figure out their more dangerous moves have a limit that they need to build back up. So he just charges a Fa Jin kick and goes in while they have none, and if they try to block with the shield, he can just avoid it.

All of their summons can similarly just be dodged and taken out, possibly even range spammed if they’re not going to be as tough as Kris is.

Massive AoE air tornadoes/shockwaves can potentially deal with any Danmaku from yellow mode, or he just dodges through them with Danger Sense and analytical prediction which lets him keep up with blitz level speed differences, and only gets better the more he is exposed to something.

Also where are the normal Big Shots shown as 3x faster than normal shots? It looks like only Supercharged Big Shots are way faster at double speed, and he needs Susie for those.

Even if they speed amp Deku has caught and damaged people who can blitz him via his analytical prediction. So with that + his AoE + Fa Jin speed amp, he can still hit Kris even at their fastest self speed.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

And probably the biggest one, their SOUL is possessed by an extradimensional being that will rewind time and redo the fight until they win, or till it gives up trying.

Aaaaaand never mind I guess cause the extradimensional super being kinda makes everything moot if Kris has infinite chances to know everything Deku can do and perfectly plan around it.

I mean it wouldn’t be foolproof since any changes in the timeline he would still react to and just change his approach, but that’s pretty much just delaying an inevitable loss

 

[Bruhtelho]

Aaaaaand never mind I guess cause the extradimensional super being kinda makes everything moot if Kris has infinite chances to know everything Deku can do and perfectly plan around it.

I mean it wouldn’t be foolproof since any changes in the timeline he would still react to and just change his approach, but that’s pretty much just delaying an inevitable loss

I think its only if he straight up dies in combat that the player can resurrect since when Kris loses a fight from his HP being depleted, its depicted as his soul shattering, and to add onto that we've seen Kris be knocked down in combat without the resurrection happening such as when he got swooned or even knocked down in regular combat, yes ik the host just switches to Noelle but it still applies, so he can 100% be incapped to prevent it from happening.

 

[LittleGuy99]

It's strange, because canonically when Delta Warriors fall in combat they simply faint, but the SOUL interprets it as losing and dies to try again

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I think its only if he straight up dies in combat that the player can resurrect since when Kris loses a fight from his HP being depleted, its depicted as his soul shattering, and too add onto that we've seen Kris be knocked down in combat without the resurrection happening such as when he got swooned or even knocked down in regular combat, yes ik the host just switches to Noelle but it still applies, so he can 100% be incapped to prevent it from happening.

I don't remember Deku being controlled by a Player that resurrects him, weird. The Roaring Knight doesn't kill Kris and co and yet there's a whole a cutscene where, after the Player came to fight the Knight again, Gaster gives us a shortcut to make redoing the fight easier, so no dying isn't required for them.

 

[Bruhtelho]

so is it a stomp due to type 8? I kind of missed that when I was reading the profile and since even if the chance is slim, the player well always offer the chance to come back as shown with The Knight and shadow mantle .

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah, Kris is in the same boat as Frisk now, either they stomp or they get stomped.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Yeah, Kris is in the same boat as Frisk now, either they stomp or they get stomped.

It's sad to be honest, I guess that can't be restricted

 

[Bruhtelho]

damn, i'll change the match up in a bit then

 

[Machmatej]

First, with Check, Kris can find Deku's weaknesses and form a strategy on how to defeat him.

Interesting. But Deku doesn't really have any blatant weaknesses besides blackwhip tweaking out from emotional instability and danger sense only working on people with ill intent towards him, but I'd say those are pretty situational and would be very difficult to exploit in a fight. Other than that, any weakness detection would have to be finding openings in his attacks, but considering Deku has experience fighting people like that (Shigaraki) and can change his fighting style and tactics on the fly, it'll still be difficult to catch him off-guard.

With Pirouette, Kris can deplete Deku's stamina and tire him out, lower his defense, lower his strength, and since this is not turn-based, Kris can do this constantly with the only disadvantage being the possibility of increasing Deku's strength for one turn, which I believe would only be one attack

How much would Deku get weakened and how long would it take to fully tire him out? Because Deku's known for his extraordinary stamina, and it usually takes a lot for him to tire out. And lowering defense is kind of useless since it's not indefinite and Deku can still block with his gloves and boots.

With Hypnosis, Kris would only have to give him a strange look, and Deku would get tired and lose strength much faster.

Might be a bit of a stretch, but if this thing works like a Sharingan and Deku has to look Kris in the eyes for this to work, then I'm pretty sure Danger Sense would clue him in and tell him to avoid eye contact (assuming the Hypnosis is intent-based, which it seems to be)

Kris's best strategy would be to keep their distance, attacking with danmaku in Yellow Mode, shooting hearts with Sharpshoot, and attacking from a distance with their normal attacks and X-Slash. With TrapOne can also throw red cages along the way and even trap Deku like small obstacles.

Not sure if a long distance battle is one Kris would want to engage in with Deku. Deku's primary strategy is pretty much just spamming shockwave bullets from afar until his opponent goes down. And Deku has way better range, even at this point being orders of magnitude greater than Lightners range. Also the danmaku in yellow mode is probably gonna get dispersed by a tornado (which Deku can just punch into existence)

Defensively, Kris can use their shield to protect themself from most attacks, with Weather Items can summon objects of indefinite quantity to protect their body or soul, and to be extra sure, Kris can increase their speed with HoldBreath and ScaredyCat

For the shield, I don't have much to say. It'll eventually get broken or snatched out of his hands with blackwhip, or Deku could go for the legs or something. And for weather items, I'm pretty sure a Detroit Smash is gonna instantly destroy a few hundred thousand umbrellas unless they have enhanced durability. And for the speed amps, Deku can either avoid attacks with Danger Sense + Analytical Prediction, or just try to catch Kris off-guard with a Faux 100% (Which is a blitz amp capable of almost statuing things comparable to Deku's initial speed, and that speed can be even further increased with enough KE stockpiled)

One last funny possibility would be that Kris wins through ACTs and social influence, a pacifist ending

This is honestly pretty likely. Deku's canonically a pacifist so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take more than "let's not fight, we're both humans" or some nonsense like that.

 

[Machmatej]

Each one of their attacks target the soul directly

Interesting, but Deku has resisted and countered attacks focused on his soul, and can even attempt the same thing.

Said attacks ignore distance and basically just spawn on top of the opponent's location, they can still be dodged by reading their sword movement but it will still be tricky

Considering Deku can predict future attacks and move in advance by Danger Sense sensing their intentions, this shouldn't be anything too scary.

And probably the biggest one, their SOUL is possessed by an extradimensional being that will rewind time and redo the fight until they win, or till it gives up trying.

This is very interesting. Is this like a re:zero type of situation where Kris comes back and knows all of Deku's moves in advance? Because if he can respawn infinitely, this seems like a boring battle. Can it be bypassed by Kris being knocked out or too injured to fight or something?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

This is very interesting. Is this like a re:zero type of situation where Kris comes back and knows all of Deku's moves in advance? Because if he can respawn infinitely, this seems like a boring battle. Can it be bypassed by Kris being knocked out or too injured to fight or something?

It's left ambiguous if Kris themself remembers, but we do know that the Player (Who really does all the fighting) does.
And being knocked out also results in a LOAD should the Player will it.

The Roaring Knight doesn't kill Kris and co and yet there's a whole a cutscene where, after the Player came to fight the Knight again, Gaster gives us a shortcut to make redoing the fight easier, so no dying isn't required for them.

 

[Machmatej]

So how exactly can Kris lose? By someone ******* with the player?

 

[Bruhtelho]

So how exactly can Kris lose? By someone ******* with the player?

if they can negate type 8 or bypass it through an ability that doesn't actually put Kris into a downed state like BFR for example

i'm changing the match up right now against Deku

 

[Machmatej]

if they can negate type 8 or bypass it through an ability that doesn't actually put Kris into a downed state like BFR for example

Then I'd vote inconclusive. I think Deku counters everything Kris has and could infinitely beat him, but infinity has no end.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Then I'd vote inconclusive. I think Deku counters everything Kris has and could infinitely beat him, but infinity has no end.

if Kris can never actually win then its a stomp in the other direction ngl, its like Eden put it (EDIT: this part is kind of irrelevant, focus on the second part)

Yeah, Kris is in the same boat as Frisk now, either they stomp or they get stomped.

but I did see somewhere in a hulk thread that if Kris keeps dying over and over it counts as incap.

 

[Machmatej]

if Kris can never actually win then its a stomp in the other direction ngl, its like Eden put it

i mean, neither side can effectively put down the other

 

[Bruhtelho]

i mean, neither side can effectively put down the other

i edited it a bit but if if Kris keeps dying over and over it counts as incap meaning Deku... wins? not sure i'll wait to see what supporters say and i'll hold off on editing the thread in the mean time

 

[LittleGuy99]

i edited it a bit but if if Kris keeps dying over and over it counts as incap meaning Deku... wins? not sure i'll wait to see what supporters say and i'll hold off on editing the thread in the mean time

I think that makes sense

 

[Machmatej]

i edited it a bit but if if Kris keeps dying over and over it counts as incap meaning Deku... wins? not sure i'll wait to see what supporters say and i'll hold off on editing the thread in the mean time

then i'll vote Deku. Better AP and speed amps, experience fighting people with Kris' abilities, arguably better skill, and counters to pretty much everything Kris can do. but i might change my mind

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

i edited it a bit but if if Kris keeps dying over and over it counts as incap meaning Deku... wins? not sure i'll wait to see what supporters say and i'll hold off on editing the thread in the mean time

Problem is Kris will learn Deku's shtick and adapt to counter it better each run, so doubt Deku will have the advantage for any of the later runs.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Problem is Kris will learn Deku's shtick and adapt to counter it better each run, so doubt Deku will have the advantage for any of the later runs.

For this reason, my vote goes to Kris, especially with the possibility of having Rouxls' help or winning peacefully in the worst-case scenario

 

[Bruhtelho]

Problem is Kris will learn Deku's shtick and adapt to counter it better each run, so doubt Deku will have the advantage for any of the later runs.

hm, I feel like this makes it a stomp but it feels unfair to say "Deku could win if he keeps killing Kris" but not the same for Kris

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Deku FRA for now but i'll likely vote Kris cuz WE hard carry kris

 

[LittleGuy99]

Kris FRA

 

[Catbowtie]

PACIFIST ROUTE KRIS FRAAAAAAA

 

[JoeDM021]

Izuku FRA for now

 

[Bruhtelho]

all votes counted ig

 

[Qurbonboev]

Also… I don’t see an answer to Smokescreen.

Clairvoyance. And by that I mean he can just go "Think about Deku", SOUL would locate his location, and Kris would attack him there.

For the shield, I don't have much to say. It'll eventually get broken or snatched out of his hands with blackwhip, or Deku could go for the legs or something.

Shields can take much more damage than Kris do. And any sword they have can be turned into one.

all votes counted ig

Can't you restrict SAVE/LOAD ability? If not, only Deku wincon is to just kill Kris over and over again.

Interesting, but Deku has resisted and countered attacks focused on his soul, and can even attempt the same thing.

It still means that Kris would need less hits to kill Deku, and they can resist soul damage too.
Btw, if main argument for Deku winning is blitz amps, results won't be added to profiles, since Kris is one that is naturally stronger

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Btw, if main argument for Deku winning is blitz amps, results won't be added to profiles, since Kris is one that is naturally stronger

oh Brother this match smells