Tankirbmon
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DUDE SAAMMEEEE
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My Hero Academia: Deku's Final Smash Calculation
- Thread starter Therefir
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Thinking on it though isn't this still only like half the feat though since it doesn't account for energy/speed decay since as it is now it act like it drops to 0 after this initial dispersal even though it still keeps going, just slower, but that's still energy to account for since it did still make it to america to give them clear skies for the week@Damage3245 @Drite77 @KLOL506 @TheRustyOne @Dalesean027
Sorry for bothering you again, I have updated the calculation using the limit of high storms can reach in Japan's tropopause.
My Hero Academia: Final Smash
vsbattles.fandom.com
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But weren't those just predictions? If Deku had dispelled the storm in Japan, the storm clouds in USA would never form as a result, it said that they were growing at a rapid pace and might have affected the weather in America, but as we know never did because Deku stopped the storms from forming further, which is also why she goes from that to a talk about a "butterfly effect" of sorts
edit: oh and that calc is also using old value for the height of the storm not the new one
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Didn’t realise that last part. You are right that he stopped the storms from forming further, but strong winds still reached the US from Deku’s smash a week later. I imagine that there’d need to be another wind Calc, but it probably shouldn’t be discounted so quickly. In fact I think that’s what @Kingofwolves999 is taking about in the general discussion thread.
Tankirbmon
He/Him- 88
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My Hero Academia: Strong Winds
vsbattles.fandom.com
There was this calc for the wind also attached to this thread
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I know. That was the one I mentioned. Apparently it’s wrong though. It doesn’t account for the new cloud heightMy Hero Academia: Strong Winds
There was this calc for the wind also attached to this thread
Tankirbmon
He/Him- 88
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Yeah I thought to mention that.
The thickness should also decrease if we want it to match the small country calc
Qurbonboev
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I geniunely don't understand why we should add it. Clouds were dispersed via received kinetic energy from Deku smash. Afterwards they transferred this kinetic energy(nothing more, nothing less) to other clouds. Energy from initial punch would be enough for all clouds in this area(with center of mount of Fuji and extend up to US) to have speed enough to reach US in like a half a day.
PhantomØ4
Username Only- 2,248
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Double counting is weird and wrong probably, sure. But where are you getting that that’d be enough energy to affect the clouds in the manner you claim with such certainty? Did you calculate it? It’d be nice to have the calculation that accounts for the energy loss over distance and the ever increasing mass to prove it.
Also, due to time zone difference it’d have less than half a day to reach america as far as I know.
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,759
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Easy. Amount of clouds in big area is around 55000 times bigger than shown to be affected in final smash. Assuming same total kinetic energy, they would be around 230 times slower. 77000/230=335m/s. Enough to cover distance between Fuji and US in 8 hours. And clouds would have this speed after going all the way to US. Before it they would be much faster
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You know that scene wasn't like the extent of the final smash right? The slowdown seen is just cinematic timing. Izuku's literally hanging in the air like he has no gravity in both presentation of it and the deceleration while exponentially isn't enough to drop speeds of 77000m/s in just 0.6s and we know the news broadcast was a midnight news channel in washington which leave the timeframe of only a about 2~3 hour difference present in the time it could have taken which contradicts the much longer timeframe you've got there.
And you still haven't provided anything to show something that accounts for the energy loss over distance and the ever increasing mass affected
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if you use the new cloud measurement for the mt fuji to washington distance you would get the mass of the entire area is 17 000 times higher than the dispersion shown in the anime. Just usung the 880gigatons from the calc that would mean that the shockwave would have a speed of 590m/s by that time and it would have reached that distance in way less than 5 hours. 880 gigatons is more than enough to accomplish that considering the increasing mass affected.
1/2 * m * v1^2 = 1/2 17000m * v2^2
V2= v1 / sqrt(17000)
No need for any extra energy
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why would it only be 2-3 hours?
Qurbonboev
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I did some rough calculating(with accounting for increased mass but not for loss of energy with distance). After 1 second of Final Smash, dispersed area would be double from 46 km to 96 km, and speed of clouds would drop from 77 km/s to 36.4 km/s(Mach 106). After 5 seconds of smash, clouds speed would drop to Mach 52. It would reach US after 4 hours.
If reaching US in 3 hours is maximum possible timeframe, just use this value in strong winds instead of 24 hours. It would raise results to 8 teratons
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I dont really get what we are doing here. Are you using the KE of 880 gigatons to calculate the speed at a shockwave expansion of 10700km and somehow end up with 8 teratons? The speed at the moment isnt really equal to the average speed since its constantly deaccelerating. This would skew the results a decent bit at that distance
Qurbonboev
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No, my rough calculation accounts for deceleration via increased mass of clouds by time (but not loss of energy by distance). It predicts that dispersion will reach US by 4 hours.
If you think that this value within timeframes of anime/manga, 890 gigatons calc is good enough. If not(like Dalesean above thinks) you better off to just tweak Therefir Strong winds calc with different time values(with specifically 3 hours it gives 8 teratons).
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Yeah because the KE ypu are calculating is a value based on a specific time. The average speed you are using to calc the KE is not the same as the actual speed at the moment it affects the mass used in the calc since it deaccelerates. Else your statement would mean 880 gigatons=8 teratons
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,759
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KE value I use as basis(890 gigatons) is from Therefir calc. Feel free to give suggestions for improving calc to them.
Nowhere did I imply that 890 gigatons=8 teratons, bruh. I specifically said to tweak Therefir strong wind calc(which will result in 8 teratons value with 3 hours), if cloud speeds with my method is too slow(aka if 890 gigatons is not high enough, use other calc that gives higher values).
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I have updated the strong winds version using the 3-hour timeframe and also added TheRustyOne's new calc to the thread.
Summoning the calc group members here to decide which of the three versions is the best. @Damage3245 @Drite77 @KLOL506 @TheRustyOne @Dalesean027
Final Smash (890 Gigatons): 2 (Drite77, Damage3245)
Strong Winds (7.97 Teratons): 1 (Dalesean027)
Second Final Smash (44.84-512.91 Teratons):
Summoning the calc group members here to decide which of the three versions is the best. @Damage3245 @Drite77 @KLOL506 @TheRustyOne @Dalesean027
Final Smash (890 Gigatons): 2 (Drite77, Damage3245)
Strong Winds (7.97 Teratons): 1 (Dalesean027)
Second Final Smash (44.84-512.91 Teratons):
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It is 890 Gigatons, don't tease me with the good times (I've been updating peeps about the downgrade and they are always thrilled when a lower number appears)
Anyhow, I personally think the first one is the best one, as it is the only one we can gauge more accurately, we have the size of the storm and we also have a timeframe, the others involve more assumptions (Such as taking 3 hours to disatbilize the storm or how the second still assumes the speed would be the same instead of slowing down)
I don't know how the final count will look like, but I'm personally more of a fan of the 1st method as it is easier to get a result without having to use several assumptions that I'm not fully sure about
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I'm not sure I fully understand the 3 hour timeframe. If it is the midnight news in Washingon state, that would make it around 5 PM in Japan's time for when Meryl is giving her broadcast. Tomura vs. Deku continued for a while after the point where the broadcast was given but I don't think by anymore than an hour since it was still fairly sunny by the battle's conclusion and the fight didn't last too long between them.
So where does the three hours come from?
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so your saying it should be an hour not three?
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No.
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Broadcast timeframe for when midnight news would run in Washington which is a 3 hour timeframe from 11pm to 1am
And when the morning news as we see in aftermath ofc still in washington would start at 4:30am to 6:00am and lines up with sunrise around june~ish in washington being about 5~5:30am since we see the sun is out by that point and the winds had already cleared everything
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yeah i asked the same
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That morning news scene took place a week after the event, didn't it? I'm not sure what bearing it would have on it.
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Thats my mistake I had to reread the reasoning its not that it should have taken 3 hours its that it should simply just all occur the same day since we already know Izuku's wind pressure reached America. It was stated that America was expecting a full week of stormy weather, but one week later, it turned out wrong because of Izuku's Final Smash. It was clear skies for an entire week. Which means, Izuku's wind pressure reached America on that same day. So that using the 24 hours as a timeframe is wrong. The weather for the entire week changed, which means the same day it reached so otherwise im not sure where it came from
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I don't think they stated that they had clear skies for the entire week. It was that day a week after the battle which was reported to have clear sunny skies. Deku preventing the week of stormy weather doesn't mean that the weather was changed across the United States at the beginning of the week; just that the storm was dispersed and so naturally there wouldn't be a storm travelling to the United States anymore.
But anyway, reaching that same day doesn't mean it had to have taken 3 hours to reach the United States. I grant that it probably didn't take 24 hours either.
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I, obviously cannot vote for my own calculation, but I'm fine with Therefir's version is nothing else works.
I'm not a fan of the strong winds version.
To better explain my own reasoning.
What would've been a week full of storms in America became clear skies, with them still feeling strong winds one week after Izuku threw the punch. This is canon. If Izuku cleared stormy weather in America on the same day he threw that punch, that means he cleared the entire storm over Japan as well.
Not unless his wind pressure magically teleported or ignored physics.
There was some natural storms in America, they got cleared away by Izuku's punch on the same day he threw it.
If the initial wind pressure was 77063.67 m/s and became 0 m/s after 24 hours. (Let's ignore the fact it reaches the USA on the same day)
That's a deceleration of -0.892 m/s^2.
How slow would the wind pressure be after one minute of that deceleration? Well it'd be 77010.2 m/s.
How far can 77010.2 m/s travel in one minute?
4620.612 km. That means the wind pressure Izuku generated traveled the same or greater distance.
What's the radius of Typhoon Tip? 1110 km.
Okay, let's say Izuku's wind pressure became 0 m/s after one hour. This will increase the deceleration, making it slow down faster.
What would the deceleration be then? -21.407 m/s.
How slow would it be after one minute? 75779.3 m/s.
How far can that travel in one minute? 4547 km. (Basically no difference)
Which means even with the lowest assumptions I can see, there is no doubt Izuku's wind pressure clears the entire storm.
In fact, we know he does because he clears the stormy weather in the USA on that same day.
Which means something unnatural would have to stop Izuku's wind pressure for it to slow down.
The scenario is inconsistent unless you allow a highly non-uniform deceleration with an extreme initial slowdown.
The slowdown seen is just cinematic timing. Izuku's literally hanging in the air like he has no gravity if anyone assumes it wasn't cinematic timing or slowed down.
If Izuku's wind pressure slows down too quickly, it cannot reach America to clear the storm over there on the same day.
If we didn't know that Izuku's punch also cleared a storm in America on that same day, I would concede that it's unknowable. However, knowing Izuku's wind pressure, the cloud split he's doing that was created by his Final Smash, also cleared the weather in America on that same day, which means his wind pressure could not have been slowed down enough to make my calculation inaccurate.
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Bro
. We still on constant deacceleration? Its an exponentially decreasing acceleration and its in relation to the amount of affected mass. The attack doesnt magically gain energy past the point already accounted in therefirs version of the calc
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I'll try to explain why I'm not currently in favor of Rusty's version and supporting Therefir's version more.
The version done by Rusty assumes that Izuku is affecting a much larger mass of air with the same speed as the dispersal calced in Therefir's version. In the minimum storm size end, that's a mass 50 times larger than in Therefir's calc. In the Typhoon Tip end, that's 576 times larger.
Just because we can calculate Deku affecting a mass of X kg of air with a certain speed doesn't mean that same speed will continue without deceleration if the energy he's unleashing is applied to a larger and larger area. Will it still affect the mass beyond the initial calculated area? Yes; but with decreased effect. Lessened speed.
To put it in an example, it's like calculating Deku punched a train and it slid along the tracks at a certain speed as a result. If that train then slams into 50 more trains lined up in front of it, it may have an effect on them... but those 50 trains aren't all going to start sliding along the tracks at exactly the same speed as the first train did.
That's my thoughts on it currently; I'll check back in on the thread tomorrow.
The version done by Rusty assumes that Izuku is affecting a much larger mass of air with the same speed as the dispersal calced in Therefir's version. In the minimum storm size end, that's a mass 50 times larger than in Therefir's calc. In the Typhoon Tip end, that's 576 times larger.
Just because we can calculate Deku affecting a mass of X kg of air with a certain speed doesn't mean that same speed will continue without deceleration if the energy he's unleashing is applied to a larger and larger area. Will it still affect the mass beyond the initial calculated area? Yes; but with decreased effect. Lessened speed.
To put it in an example, it's like calculating Deku punched a train and it slid along the tracks at a certain speed as a result. If that train then slams into 50 more trains lined up in front of it, it may have an effect on them... but those 50 trains aren't all going to start sliding along the tracks at exactly the same speed as the first train did.
That's my thoughts on it currently; I'll check back in on the thread tomorrow.
Qurbonboev
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Wdym? Non-uniform deceleration with an extreme initial slowdown is literally how we would expect it to work based on physics.
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I started this before they changed the timeframe to 3 hours. It took me a while to reread the whole arc, so I'm posting this in case the current one stops working for some reason (honestly, I still don't understand where the 3-hour thing comes from).
If I understand correctly, the idea is that everything about the wind feat happened on the same day as the war, right? For those who want it to be less time, I skimmed the entire saga to look for any mention of the passage of time.
Obviously it's not much (and within the verse, more time was definitely spent, but this counts as proof)
Passage of Time mentions.
That means that in total we have a guaranteed minimum of 28 minutes and 5 seconds that passed before the feat (again, within the universe it must have taken much longer than that, but this is what is certain)
28:05 minutes = 1685 seconds
86400 seconds (24 hours) - 1685 = 84715
Strong Winds Speed = 10731640/84715 = 126.68 m/s
Strong Winds Energy = 1/12*405315764243014660*126.68^2 = 542036283374347475356.37 Joules
542036283374347475356.37 = 129.54978092 Gigatons (There was hardly any change)
If I understand correctly, the idea is that everything about the wind feat happened on the same day as the war, right? For those who want it to be less time, I skimmed the entire saga to look for any mention of the passage of time.
Obviously it's not much (and within the verse, more time was definitely spent, but this counts as proof)
Passage of Time mentions.
- The cages lasted 3 seconds (345)
- The mention implies that at least 1 minute passed (349)
- The barrier opened for 2 seconds (366)
- If I understand correctly, the gearshift issue, even when it was used twice, was caused by turning it off prematurely and then turning it back on, which means 5 minutes. (368 - 377 - 404 - 406 - 411 - 412)
- The fight between All Might and AFO started 20 minutes before Toga's clones disappeared. This seems to happen between the first and second use of Gearshift (396 - 402)
- Eri's horn only reversed 2 to 3 minutes of damage, and the only thing it managed to heal was the arms, so it shouldn't be intertwined with any other timeframe (420 - 421)
That means that in total we have a guaranteed minimum of 28 minutes and 5 seconds that passed before the feat (again, within the universe it must have taken much longer than that, but this is what is certain)
28:05 minutes = 1685 seconds
86400 seconds (24 hours) - 1685 = 84715
Strong Winds Speed = 10731640/84715 = 126.68 m/s
Strong Winds Energy = 1/12*405315764243014660*126.68^2 = 542036283374347475356.37 Joules
542036283374347475356.37 = 129.54978092 Gigatons (There was hardly any change)
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I'm starting to think there may be no reliable way to determine how long the strong winds took to cover America, or that they simply aren't strong enough to be useful for the ratings (since apparently I can't even combine the results of Final Smash and the Strong Winds together, though I'm not entirely sure why).
Like, if the 890 gigatons were "used up" for the first dispersion, wouldn't the shockwave still need those extra 129.55 gigatons or whatever to cover America on the same day?
Like, if the 890 gigatons were "used up" for the first dispersion, wouldn't the shockwave still need those extra 129.55 gigatons or whatever to cover America on the same day?
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Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,759
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With my method and 890 gigatons of initial KE, it would take around 2.8 hours to reach California, and around 4.2 hours to reach Washington DC. So around 1.4 hours for covering contiguous US specifically
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If you are already using the 890-gigaton value to find this timeframe, I assume no additional energy is required for the winds to cover America?
Regardless, since I don't want to keep stretching the thread and you are probably too busy right now to make a blog about this new method, I will leave it at that and wait for the remaining calc group members to vote, then use the selected calc to make a CRT.
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,759
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Yeah, entire point was to establish if initial Final Smash energy(890 gigatons) would be enough for winds to reach US, and in what timeframe. Turns out it's enough to reach contiguous US in 2.8 hours, and cover it completely after additional 1.4 hours(if we don't count energy losses due to energy). If you think it's too slow, and winds reached Washington DC in 3 hours, use 7.97 teratons calc. If you think it's perfectly fine timeframe, 890 gigatons value is enough
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There's a problem with Therefir's calculation, which I'm using as the basis.
I don't think Therefir's measurements are right. I have a massive problem with the scan being used. (Do you see the problem?)
Therefir is getting the size of the dispersal by measuring the center bottom point of the storm to the ground, which he says is 16 kilometers.
The problem is Izuku and the ground. The angle of this shot is low to the ground and is looking up at Izuku, who is very close to the ground.
Maybe it's the camera, but the ground doesn't look lined up. Remember, Izuku is at the center point of the dispersal. Izuku is at the same point in that scan, just much closer to the ground. If that ground isn't directly underneath Izuku's feet, that means we cannot use it to scale the height of the storm's bottom above sea level.
If we're saying the ground is in the foreground and isn't underneath Izuku's feet, that still means we cannot use the ground as the stopping point for the 16 km value.
This doesn't look right. Do you get what I'm saying? I think this needs to be measured in a different way, assuming it can be. That means my calculation is wrong as well.
I don't think Therefir's measurements are right. I have a massive problem with the scan being used. (Do you see the problem?)
Therefir is getting the size of the dispersal by measuring the center bottom point of the storm to the ground, which he says is 16 kilometers.
The problem is Izuku and the ground. The angle of this shot is low to the ground and is looking up at Izuku, who is very close to the ground.
Maybe it's the camera, but the ground doesn't look lined up. Remember, Izuku is at the center point of the dispersal. Izuku is at the same point in that scan, just much closer to the ground. If that ground isn't directly underneath Izuku's feet, that means we cannot use it to scale the height of the storm's bottom above sea level.
If we're saying the ground is in the foreground and isn't underneath Izuku's feet, that still means we cannot use the ground as the stopping point for the 16 km value.
This doesn't look right. Do you get what I'm saying? I think this needs to be measured in a different way, assuming it can be. That means my calculation is wrong as well.
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