A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

[EldemadeDityjon]

Didn't wanted to reply here but

Only an attempt to persuade your opinion (once), a part of Eldemade's arguments are that Worlds = Dimesnions, but there is this:

I already addressed that highlighted part.

You still have not explained what type of worlds spiritual life forms are crossing. Not only that, it also lacks context. All I see is Guy summoning Rain and Misery, and they couldn’t maintain their forms.

On top of that from what I see in Vol 21 statements a dimensional wall can be crossed if they are adjacent nonetheless it's not impossible it's just not possible in every case.

Even if she knew the timeline, position data, and other information she needed for her target location, if there was a dimensional barrier separating her from it, she lacked the power to cross it at all.

This was why Mai gave up on returning to her original world.

In some instances, it was possible to cross this barrier if you were just going to an adjacent dimension. It was a case-by-case thing, though. The “walls” in question could be of varying heights, so sometimes it wasn’t doable, no matter what. The only way around that was to find an Underworld Gate or some other rift and just explore, explore, explore.

And another part is based on the confusion between Beyond Time and End of Time, which is explained here:

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

@Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @CrimsonStarFallen @Everything12 @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? 🙏

vsbattles.com

I think even code disagreed with your interpretation regarding this. It's a far fetched on top of that to think Rimuru is using hypertimeline.

Idk I request staffs to review previous thread if they can check it or ask Qawsed for clarification but from what I remember even @Qawsedf234 disagreed with that interpretations of yours in the previous thread for Low 1-C until you and few other Tensura supporters argued with Mistranslations and he only agreed since he lacked knowledge on the verse. Despite he asked multiple times for the proof nothing was ever provided to prove Timeline was actually destroyed.

Tensura LN Cosmology Upgrade Tier 1 (Retry)

I disagree. Reasoning wasn’t good at all.no different from head canon compared to astral explanation.will leave that to a different thread. You cannot disagree when literally all you have been saying is assumptions to begin with Rimuru never teleported or bfred to a random place instead the...

vsbattles.com

Tensura LN Cosmology Upgrade Tier 1 (Retry)

I disagree. Reasoning wasn’t good at all.no different from head canon compared to astral explanation.will leave that to a different thread. You cannot disagree when literally all you have been saying is assumptions to begin with Rimuru never teleported or bfred to a random place instead the...

vsbattles.com

Tensura LN Cosmology Upgrade Tier 1 (Retry)

I disagree. Reasoning wasn’t good at all.no different from head canon compared to astral explanation.will leave that to a different thread. You cannot disagree when literally all you have been saying is assumptions to begin with Rimuru never teleported or bfred to a random place instead the...

vsbattles.com

Tensura LN Cosmology Upgrade Tier 1 (Retry)

I disagree. Reasoning wasn’t good at all.no different from head canon compared to astral explanation.will leave that to a different thread. You cannot disagree when literally all you have been saying is assumptions to begin with Rimuru never teleported or bfred to a random place instead the...

vsbattles.com

It was also shown in the newest Volume (which Eldemade didn't focus on) that Otherworld contains or is vaster than multiple universes at least, which per previous volumes are space-time continuums, making it 2-C)

I did address that part, so I request that you stop saying I didn’t focus on it. I even explained why “Universe” here is contextually referring to physical space, since it’s talking about the distance Swin is covering.

The next one talks about Swin traveling through the Otherworld, obviously about size again. It’s not like it has immeasurable speed—it’s traveling to different time periods at a speed near SOL. The whole point is that both instances where it was mentioned that the Otherworld is vaster than the universe are about comparing the observable universe’s size with the Otherworld (which Ivarage was sealed in).

You’re just misinforming the staff by saying I didn’t focus on your arguments when I actually did. I don’t mind you asking them to take another look or arguing that I was wrong on my part, but stop with the dishonesty like “Elde didn’t focus on this” when I clearly did.

Not only was I busy, but after seeing Bambu’s comment, I didn’t want to clog the thread with back-and-forth replies albeit some of your arguments are wrong.

Either way, I’ll stop commenting now. I just wanted to clarify that I did address those points, that’s all. Peace out — this might be my last comment on this.

I agree with these conclusions (some of it is just how the standards work) and most of the arguments that support them, but I do not agree with the Dimensions=World arguments and Universe is just 3-A (I agree in just Feldway's feat) in every case.

When it comes to the universe, it also depends on the context, especially when Yuuki refers to universes as worlds, they must be structures with timelines and Rimuru's feat in volume 23... I don't think that feat is just at least 2-3x universe level (3-A) (after whats happened before).

But yes, in terms of answering Elde, this is another proof for Universe=Space-time Continuum (Low 2-C) or Phsical Space (3-A) is depending on the context. (I forgot to mention it).

I just wanted you to know that I agree with your points about the universe being 3-A to Low 2-C. But it depends on the context. The statement about the universe being vaster than the Otherworld refers to physical space, and the Feldway stuff also makes it look like physical space destruction rather than destruction of the timeline itself, so I placed the universe at 3-A there. Yes, you can consider Yuki’s statement as Low 2-C, but the Feldway feat, the Otherworld being vaster than the universe, and the Swim roaming around in installer space all clearly refer to physical space (3-A) as far as I can tell.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I won't really be comenting on the other stuff since it'll be a back and forth one, and I see no point in a repeat of "You didn't" and "I didn't", but I admit I missed the part where you asked for clarification on the part regarding Dimensions. So here is the answer to your question:

You still have not explained what type of worlds spiritual life forms are crossing. Not only that, it also lacks context. All I see is Guy summoning Rain and Misery, and they couldn’t maintain their forms.

In context they are going from the Underworld to the Cardinal World. But the stamrneet itself, as seen, is a general one ("it's a simple matter for SLFs to travel across worlds)

On that day, several tens of millennia ago, the largest, most powerful nation in human history was born, putting an end to the divisions among the race for good. It was all so simple.
The two demons Guy summoned had deteriorated to Arch Demons as well. Those were the rules of the world; in the transition from the underworld to the demi-material one, they both lost most of their power. It was a simple matter for spiritual life-forms to travel across worlds, but in this one, simply staying alive cost them so much energy.
They needed physical bodies, for only when they found one and evolved could they become permanent residents of this world. Realizing that, Guy waited for his servants to evolve. But, strangely enough, no matter how many human souls they gathered, the two of them never changed at all. So he gave them two corpses—and with them, the honor of becoming physical. That, more than anything else, proved just how good a mood Guy was in.
OTL
______________
was the wizard’s good fortune that he was killed by the demons without understanding anything. On that day, tens of thousands of years ago, the largest and most powerful nation in the history of mankind, which had been caught in a divisive struggle, disappeared from the earth with ease. The two pillars summoned by Guy had, after all, deteriorated to the level of archdemons. That was the law of this world. When one crosses from the underworld to the semi-material world, they lose most of their power.

Crossing the world was no problem for a spiritual life form, but in this world, even just maintaining an existence was extremely draining. Therefore, they needed a physical body. Only by incarnating and evolving could they take root in this world. Understanding this, Guy waited for his followers to evolve. But strangely enough, no matter how many human souls he collected, the two of them never evolved.
Slimereader V16E

They couldn't maintain their form this time in particular because the Cardinal world requires a large amount of Magicules, both of which exist inside the same dimension.

On top of that from what I see in Vol 21 statements a dimensional wall can be crossed if they are adjacent nonetheless it's not impossible it's just not possible in every case.

Yet this is again about travel across different Dimesnions (if they're adjacent it's doable otherwise it's not) and worlds across different Dimesnions, not worlds inside the same dimension. And again this:

《持久戦に持ち込めば勝利確定だったのですが、こうなるとルヴェルジェの攻撃による影響規模が、全次元の 遍(あまね)く世界にまで及びそうですね》

Since you didn't ask this in the official translation thread, I assume you got this translated personally somewhere else by a source you trust. Either that or perhaps you were too busy to ask, I don't have a problem with neither, but just a reminder that this shouldn't be forgotten. Someone asked this to be translated while I was writing this reply so I'll wait for that

Despite he asked multiple times for the proof nothing was ever provided to prove Timeline was actually destroyed.

As far as I remember, the reason he agreed wasn't because of any of the timelines scans we gave him (mistranslated or not) but because characters already had Low 2-C or above rating.

You’re just misinforming the staff by saying I didn’t focus on your arguments when I actually did. I don’t mind you asking them to take another look or arguing that I was wrong on my part, but stop with the dishonesty like “Elde didn’t focus on this” when I clearly did.

I didn't say you didn't focus on my argument itself, I only meant it as far as "he didn't take into account all the context said statement has", particularly the context of Otherworld from V17 where the Universe that the Otherowrld was vaster than was called a space-time.

Regardless, if my words didn't denote that meaning clearly, that's my bad and I'll edit it to explain more.

That's all. Note that I have no intention of engaging in a back and forth argument either, I'm only answering what you asked as a question + clarifying my own position.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, this make sense to me

Agreed.

 

[Vietthai96]

Dimensions are basically what contains Worlds. They each have a Dimensional Wall separating them.

Oke, but both Dimension and World are in plural nouns so it hardly say anything other than Dimension contain World

it was said that this was still an "Other Dimensional Space" (Space inside another Dimension) even though she was outside Worlds.

?. Scan said different. It say:

There is no way to predict what other dimensional space you'd be sent to

Literally, scan means that Velgrynd was sent to a completely different dimensional space; she just doesn't know or identify which one

Another example is that the Cryptids, Phantoms/Mystics and Insectars existed in one among three worlds. And at one point when those their worlds were invaded by an external force, described as a "Force from another Dimension" since it wasn't among one of the three worlds.

Again, the scan didn't say what you claimed; it said

This world, which never intersected with any other, was home to three major forces

It literally said they all exist in one world; the later part just said one force plans to invade other worlds, the second is busy expanding their haven, the third one just endless battle. Where did "Cryptids, Phantoms/Mystics and Insectars existed in one among three worlds" come from?

And yet another example is how a Spiritual Lifeform can easily cross Worlds can't go to Worlds,that are in other Dimensions.

Ngl, sounds like character and ability issues.

The first scan said:

In the transition from the underworld to the demi-material one, they both lost most of their power. It was simple matter for Spiritual Lifeform to travel across worlds, but in this one, simply staying cost them so much energy

So that mean it is energy, power, ability issues

The second one supports this by saying:

Crossing dimensional barrier requires an enormous amount of energy, along with long string of complex, arcane calculation etc.....

The third one also said similar thing

It was case-by-case thing, though. the "wall" in question could be of varying heights, so sometime it wasn't doable, no matter what. etc...

Literally the scan itself confirmed it is a case-by-case basis to cross dimensions, as the dimensional walls are different compared to each other. The last part said you need to cross them via other methods, such as finding gate or rift

So all in all, idk how you can equate this into World =/= Dimension when they was talking about a completely different issue.

It was also shown in the newest Volume that Otherworld contains or is vaster than multiple universes at least, which per previous volumes are space-time continuums, making it 2-C. Just as I said in my summary post, Eldemade didn't take into account the last bit which would change the rsting from 3-A to Low 2-C)

The texts

The universe is vast, but not as vast as the other worlds. They thought that if they had gained a relying spirit and incarnated themselves, they could completely conquer this space-time within a few thousand to tens of thousands of years. At the same time, they had developed the Underworld Gate, which leads to other dimensions, and had their sights set on a further invasion. But then, an unforeseen event occurred. There was a definite element of uncertainty, judged Amari Masahiko.

Literally, "universe" and "world" are in the same sentence, and then they were talking about conquering space-time. Now the latter part, which I bolded, said that they had developed the Underworld Gate, which leads to other dimensions, as they plan to invade them too. So what did they mean in context? They meant dimension, not universe, as we can see from the terms "conquer" and "invasion". So space-time isn't referring to the universe; it is referring to dimension. These contexts also align with other contexts about Dimension = World. both "world" and "dimension" in the paragraph are also in plural nouns, not the universe

(Edit: Alternately, would you be willing to provide a specific point that convinced you of Eldemade's worlds = Dimensions? Of course, only if you're willing)
If this changes your opinion, please say so. Otherwise is also fine.

Also, the texts is literally

別次元世界 (アナザーワールド)

Another dimensional world (Another World)

The Katakana part, which is above the Kanji for Another dimensional world

アナザーワールド

Katakana act as phonetic script for transcription of foreign-language words into Japanese or some technical terms
Using Hepburn romanization it is

Anazā Wārudo

Which mean in literal English as

Another World

So the text itself is very clear. Another dimensional world = Another World. Dimension = World, literally. World reside in, and is its own Dimension

No amount of interpretation or context can go against such blatant text

So finally, i still see Dimension = World

It is midnight so i need to prepare my bed soon, so don't expect me to reply again, but i doubt i need to, since i pretty much expressed my opinion

 

[CodeCCLL]

So what did they mean in context? They meant dimension, not universe, as we can see from the terms "conquer" and "invasion". So space-time isn't referring to the universe; it is referring to dimension

You'd have to make a special effort, or be genuinely sleepy, not to understand that the reason the universe is described as vast is to explain why conquering it—space-time—could take tens of thousands of years for Phantoms.

 

[Vietthai96]

You'd have to make a special effort, or be genuinely sleepy, not to understand that the reason the universe is described as vast is to explain why conquering it—space-time—could take tens of thousands of years for Phantoms.

The universe is vast, but not as vast as the other worlds. They thought that if they had gained a relying spirit and incarnated themselves, they could completely conquer this space-time within a few thousand to tens of thousands of years

And they also described the other world is vaster in the same line. So what is the thing they are talking about now?. Universe or World?. From what i saw, seem like they talk more about the world than the universe. And even the space-time part could be saying about both

Also,

You'd have to make a special effort, or be genuinely sleepy, not to understand

I don't think this is a necessary thing to say; you could simply just explain your part in order to change my mind. If I didn't make an effort, I would just say i don't change my mind. Even Astral said i don't need to

Edit: Alternately, would you be willing to provide a specific point that convinced you of Eldemade's worlds = Dimensions? Of course, only if you're willing)
If this changes your opinion, please say so. Otherwise is also fine.

Yet i still made an effort in my reply for you guys to understand my opinion

 

[AlexSamDen]

And they also described the other world is vaster in the same line. So what is the thing they are talking about now?. Universe or World?. From what i saw, seem like they talk more about the world than the universe. And even the space-time part could be saying about both

I don't really want to interject in your discussion, however I noticed that you may not have read this note from Astral below that scan

Change "other worlds" to "Otherworld" as @MrTayman616 translated and you get the point

The Otherworld (specifically capitalized) is the world that is the home of Phantoms. They don't conquer it

 

[CodeCCLL]

And they also described the other world is vaster in the same line. So what is the thing they are talking about now?. Universe or World?. From what i saw, seem like they talk more about the world than the universe. And even the space-time part could be saying about both

Would you please reread Eldemade's Otherworld argument, which I assumed you read and agreed with.

I think you need to understand that Otherworld (the place where Ivarage was sealed, where the Phantoms came from) refers to a specific world called Otherworld as a whole.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Oke, but both Dimension and World are in plural nouns so it hardly say anything other than Dimension contain World

Seeing your whole reply, I assume you have some knowledge in Japanese?
Then could you please confirm this?

《持久戦に持ち込めば勝利確定だったのですが、こうなるとルヴェルジェの攻撃による影響規模が、全次元の 遍(あまね)く世界にまで及びそうですね》

It clearly says "All worlds across all Dimesnions". That should greatly help clear doubts
There is also this scan

ひょっとすると、地球とは別の次元、あるいは世界からのお客さんもいるのだろうか？

Which puts あるいは (meaning two different distinct choices) between worlds and dimensions

So the text itself is very clear. Another dimensional world = Another World. Dimension = World, literally. World reside in, and is its own Dimension

No amount of interpretation or context can go against such blatant text

So finally, i still see Dimension = World

It is midnight so i need to prepare my bed soon, so don't expect me to reply again, but i doubt i need to, since i pretty much expressed my opinion

I confirmed with @MrTayman616 regarding this, and he confirmed it can mean both "worlds in other dimensions" or "other dimensional worlds". So really, the only thing that matters after that is context. And I think the Japanese scan I gave you above should answer that evidentially.

I believe @CodeCCLL and @AlexSamDen have answered the other parts. But I'll answer them shortly in a single reply as well, summarizing what they meant:

Ngl, sounds like character and ability issues.

The first scan said:
So that mean it is energy, power, ability issues

The second one supports this by saying:

The third one also said similar thing
Literally the scan itself confirmed it is a case-by-case basis to cross dimensions, as the dimensional walls are different compared to each other. The last part said you need to cross them via other methods, such as finding gate or rift

So all in all, idk how you can equate this into World =/= Dimension when they was talking about a completely different issue.

Well it is, kinda, indeed ability issues. They have the ability to go to other worlds in general but by default they can't go to other dimensions unless in exceptional cases where the walls are adjacent.

Literally, "universe" and "world" are in the same sentence, and then they were talking about conquering space-time. Now the latter part, which I bolded, said that they had developed the Underworld Gate, which leads to other dimensions, as they plan to invade them too. So what did they mean in context? They meant dimension, not universe, as we can see from the terms "conquer" and "invasion". So space-time isn't referring to the universe; it is referring to dimension. These contexts also align with other contexts about Dimension = World. both "world" and "dimension" in the paragraph are also in plural nouns, not the universe

From where you got the scan, it was mentioned that after Tayman's correction it's "Otherworld" (as in the name of a particular world) rather than a general term in context.

"Space-Time" refers to the Universe they are conquering (making said Universe Low 2-C, while the Otherworld which is faster than that Universe (and contains many in itself, or is at least vaster than many at once) is 2-C. That's basically the logic here.

After they're done conquering, they'll go to other dimensions and conquer Universes of worlds there. At the moment they are in this Universe, they are not in their home dimension (which contains the Otherworld and at least 2 more Worlds), and after they're done conquering this Universe, they'll move onto yet another dimension.

スイームは本来、数多(あまた)の宇宙を含めたよりも広大な異界の星間を泳ぐ。その最大戦速度は亜光速に達し、息をするように発生させられる〝異界門〟を通じて空間を跳躍する事で、無数の星間国家を滅ぼしている天災そのものだ。

〝異界門〟とは〝転移門〟の一種で、宇宙単位での超長距離移動を目的とした空間転移である。

(Again, in context this is the Otherworld, the home to Aggressors (species) and similar creatures.)

Do you agree to this much (that Otherworld is 2-C) based on the Space-time thing and it being vaster than that (and multiple of it even)?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't plurals of terms themselves not exist in Japanese (i.e., it would have the same kanji for "world" and "worlds")?

 

[Reiner04]

Alr, I was busy traveling these past few days and my internet wasn't working well enough to clearly present my thoughts on the thread. I finally have some time to put together a concise summary.

You're confusing the narrative here to an extent.

First off, time axis = timeline (alternative translations of the exact same word)

Second off, Rimuru notes how "we don't know what happened in that timeline" while referring to the Universe; "but when we were jumped/transfered, everything was already over/had ended" (aka. the universe had been destroyed as a timeline).

Thirdly, the fact that Ciel and Rimuru were sent to "Beyond Time" (confirmed by @MrTayman616 in PMs to be that) already indicates that they were outside the timeline. The fact that time was still flowing simply refers to hyper time. So no, it was heavily implied that the timeline was over.

Rimru being able to go back to the past isn't even an argument since Chloe with her time travel ability couldn't go back to the past as "time wasn't flowing" (it didn't exist), yet Rimuru could. That's ONLY possible under the existence of hyper time.

"Beyond time" is inherently vague and doesn't indicate anything specific on its own; it could refer to the distant future, the distant past, or any place outside the regular flow of time. Rimuru being thrown into the future already shows that they were sent beyond the conventional time-space. Furthermore, this is not the first fiction I have encountered where "beyond time and space" simply refers to an arbitrarily distant future or past.


Chloe's inability to travel seems to be a verse specific mechanic of this. Since time is stopped, she cannot utilize time-related abilities to move forward or backward, as she could when time normally flows. This is analogous to how one cannot swim forward or backward in frozen water. The change in the fundamental nature of time (being frozen) likely just affecting time-related abilities. Moreover, it has been stated many times that time is merely stopped, not that it ceases to exist. This further supports the interpretation put forth by Elde.

Not gonna talk about the thing about it being a special structure, bjt there at that time when it said "the Universe is vast, but not as much as the Otherworld", it CLEARLY meant as a space-timw continuum if you actually look just a line below:
Change "other worlds" to "Otherworld" as @MrTayman616 translated and you get the point. Universe here refers to as a space-time continuum, not "observable universe".

Also, there's not really an "observable universe" example in tensura. Even when viewed from the outside, characters that view the Universe (they equate it to a world cuz they can't observe other branches due to limitations), they say "Time flows inside that Universe". If the Universe is destroyed, it's destroyed as a space-time continuum as both space and time exists inside a "ball of light". Space and Time are also co-related, so destroying one should theoretically destroy the other, as shown with ball of light disappearing.

Whether it uses "Spatial Universe" or "Spacetime Continuum" does not change the core issue here. Two distinct spacetimes can vary in size with respect to either space, time, or both. Time is generally considered eternal by default here as we know it, so the variation is most likely have to be referring to space unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Regardless of its spatial or temporal size, a single spacetime will always be Low 2-C unless it shows to contain more than one Low 2-C structure within itself. It seems, however, that the difference being discussed is merely a spatial one.

Uh, no. This is assuming that Worlds = Dimesnions which is heavily disproven by the Dimesnion section in the sandbox.

Astral Trinity439/Tier 2

vsbattles.fandom.com

The wall separates dimensions, not worlds.

I don't see any scan in the blog that proves Dimensions and Worlds are different, infact, they have been used interchangebly.

This is despite the fact that Mai is a spiritual lifeform, beings who by nature can cross worlds.

Scan does say they can cross but not always, so this info doesn't proves that Dimension ≠ Worlds. Here:

This was why Mai gave up on returning to her original world. In some instances, it was possible to cross this barrier if you were just going to an adjacent dimension. It was a case-by-case thing, though. The “walls” in question could be of varying heights, so sometimes it wasn’t doable, no matter what. The only way around that was to find an Underworld Gate or some other rift and just explore, explore, explore.

It's also said that Chloe can't time travel cuz Time doesn't flow there, so obviously time doesn't exist. By the time Rimuru WOKE UP, everything had already ended.

Chloe can't time travel coz time is frozen.

Beyond Time and Space: Universe destroyed by Feldway. Timeline implied to be over.
Time still flows: Hyper time, is infinite
End of the World: Even hyper time ends and even from Rimuru's perspective, Time become "Zero". Chloe can't go to the past with her ability from there, meaning time really doesn't exist. If another form of it does, that is an even higher one (that Rimuru travelled in). Technically this is 6D but the aim of the CRT is to get back 2C first, not 1-C.

Your conclusion seems to presume that the verse is Tier 1 and requires the acceptance of processes that would establish the verse at that level. I believe this is far from what this CRT is attempting to propose. You must be specifically clear if your interpretation relies on the use of a hypertimeline, because if that is the case, the acceptance of that structure would need to accompany the acceptance of your overall interpretation.

---

So i am still in agreement with @EldemadeDityjon's interpretation so far.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Reiner and Vietthai seem to make sense here.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

"Beyond time" is inherently vague and doesn't indicate anything specific on its own; it could refer to the distant future, the distant past, or any place outside the regular flow of time. Rimuru being thrown into the future already shows that they were sent beyond the conventional time-space.

Well that's the point. They were thrown outside the Universe and conventional space-time.

The main point being argued is that beyond time and space is different from "End of Time and Space" as shown in the scans.

Chloe's inability to travel seems to be a verse specific mechanic of this. Since time is stopped, she cannot utilize time-related abilities to move forward or backward, as she could when time normally flows. This is analogous to how one cannot swim forward or backward in frozen water. The change in the fundamental nature of time (being frozen) likely just affecting time-related abilities. Moreover, it has been stated many times that time is merely stopped, not that it ceases to exist. This further supports the interpretation put forth by Elde.

Rather than the freezing river analogy, it's more so that there's no water in the river to begin with. It's Zero. It's not that it flows BECUASE it's frozen, but because there's no time to flow to begin with.

Anyway, as I listened to Ciel’s story, I came to understand exactly what I could do now as we prepared for the future. I felt I was kind of in a desperate situation, but there was also plenty of time to work with—or really, time wasn’t flowing at all, so it was actually zero time, not plenty of it. I was fine either way, though. The whole thing was pretty strange.
OTL V21Epilogue

Because all of Time has already exhausted itself. Infinity has passed.

A very unusual sight, indeed, but it was probably natural. I had only just woken up, but Ciel had been waiting for me to open my eyes for what must have felt like an eternity. All alone in that solitude… Talk about having a tough mind. I couldn’t have endured it—that’s for sure. Truly amazing. I know it’s not something you can sum up in one word like that, but I don’t really have the vocabulary for it at all. Forgive me.
V21E OTL

Before you say this is flowery language, they literary reached the end of Time, emptiness. Infinite time has passed (that is, time has exhausted itself).

In other words, Feldway didn’t think he could kill me. I couldn’t be taken down too easily, so he sent me somewhere else so I wouldn’t get in his way. At first glance, that just sounded like putting off the problem for later, although in my eyes it seemed like a pretty rational approach.

But in reality, I didn't know where I was. Even if I was told that this enormous colorless space was called "The End of Space-Time", it still wouldn't make any sense to me. Here, time didn't flow. And yet, unlike the "Suspended World", I couldn't perceive the expansion of space even if I was manipulating "Information Particles".

"Yes. Here, even the flow of time is halted. The expansion of space has stopped, and it has become nothingness, in accordance with the law of entropy."

I didn’t really get what Ciel was talking about. Did it mean that it had been sent to beyond Time, and then, a while after that, it reached the End of Space and Time? And who knows what it even meant by seeing the end of the world? How can you even survive something like that?
V21E OTL + Tayman's help for meaning of words

俺が今使っている『虚無崩壊』というのも、果ての世界で溜め込まれた絶対的な崩壊因子(マイナスエネルギー)が正体なのである。シエルさんでさえ扱いに困っていたようだが、無限に時間をかけて研究した成果として、今ではお手軽に流用出来るようになったのだと。
V23C1

(I can only send the raws for this since MTL or FTL (other than Slimereader) isn't allowed, but the kanji 無限に時間 is there.
And what happens after Time exhausts itself?
It vanishes into Nothingness
(There's no ending per entropy and thermodynamics where the Universe reaches Emptiness, so it's fair to assume that Fuse's version of entropy isn't exactly accurately the same as the irl model.)

There’s a saying: ‘You can’t see even an inch ahead.’
And truly, everything beyond the Barrier was an unknown world.
Sometimes they could see rainbow-colored lights shining far away, but everything between here and there was completely invisible.
A rainbow-colored sphere expanded nearby, then burst and vanished.
Volume 22, Chapter 3
Source

“Hm. I’ve been watching for a while, and did you notice?
Just now, that rainbow-colored sphere swelled up and vanished, right?
I’m pretty sure that was one world… maybe even an entire universe.”
“A universe…?”
“A whole world seriously…?”
Volume 22, Chapter 3
Source

“Inside that sphere, time is flowing.
It even creates a slow ripple of time in the surrounding area, but… we can’t observe it at all.”

Strictly speaking, time was passing.
But since there was no way to measure it directly, Yuuki had relied on clues like the fact that he never felt tired or hungry, and concluded that time either wasn’t moving, or was moving extremely slowly.

Yuuki couldn’t interfere with infons, nor could he observe them.
Everything he thought was only conjecture
Yet even so, his genius let him arrive at the right answer.
Volume 22, Chapter 3
Source

(Time flows inside the ball, space exists inside the ball. Because time flows, an after effect is produced in the immediate surrounding of the ball. Once the ball's life (time) ends, it vanishes into emptiness as a whole rather than "being frozen".)

I don't see any scan in the blog that proves Dimensions and Worlds are different, infact, they have been used interchangebly.

This scan is in context to Mai wanting to go to a different world that is inside another dimension. But Mai can't go there because it's in a different dimension. Because if it was in the same dimension then as a Spiritual lifeform Mai should be able to go there. This is accepted on the physiology page:

Dimensional Travel (Spiritual Lifeforms can travel through worlds)

Also, you could see my response above to Veitthai where I give them several scans differentiating between worlds and dimensions.

Your conclusion seems to presume that the verse is Tier 1 and requires the acceptance of processes that would establish the verse at that level. I believe this is far from what this CRT is attempting to propose.

I didn't conclude the verse is tier 1. I clearly said this CRT isn't meant for tier 1 to begin with.
And I didn't ever say "Hypertime is already accepted" or similar.

You must be specifically clear if your interpretation relies on the use of a hypertimeline, because if that is the case, the acceptance of that structure would need to accompany the acceptance of your overall interpretation.

This would only be required if I treated the hypertimeline as something are accepted, which I didn't. I'm instead trying to prove the existence of Hypertime itself (WITHOUT proposing tier 1 for it or tying it to tier 1). That's all.

I think that Reiner and Vietthai seem to make sense here.

I'll update the vote tally then, however, isn't it better to wait for Bambu as well to break the chain of 2:2 instead of breaking it yourself? That's just an opinion tho

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The current vote tally:

Agree:@DarkDragonMedeus, @Elizhaa (with everything), @Reiner04 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions), @Vietthai96 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions), @Antvasima (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions)
Disagree: @Reiner04 (with anything above Low 2-C), @Vietthai96 (With anything above Low 2-C), @Antvasima (With anything above Low 2-C)

Neutral/Miscellaneous: @Antvasima (Waiting for @Mr. Bambu to give his thoughts, currently agrees with @Reiner04 but admits he didn't thoroughly read everything)

If a staff thinks their vote was taken in the wrong way, please point it out!
I'll be updating this as more staff come

 

[Reiner04]

Well that's the point. They were thrown outside the Universe and conventional space-time.

The main point being argued is that beyond time and space is different from "End of Time and Space" as shown in the scans.
Rather than the freezing river analogy, it's more so that there's no water in the river to begin with. It's Zero. It's not that it flows BECUASE it's frozen, but because there's no time to flow to begin with.
Because all of Time has already exhausted itself. Infinity has passed.
Before you say this is flowery language, they literary reached the end of Time, emptiness. Infinite time has passed (that is, time has exhausted itself).
(I can only send the raws for this since MTL or FTL (other than Slimereader) isn't allowed, but the kanji 無限に時間 is there.
And what happens after Time exhausts itself?
It vanishes into Nothingness
(There's no ending per entropy and thermodynamics where the Universe reaches Emptiness, so it's fair to assume that Fuse's version of entropy isn't exactly accurately the same as the irl model.)
(Time flows inside the ball, space exists inside the ball. Because time flows, an after effect is produced in the immediate surrounding of the ball. Once the ball's life (time) ends, it vanishes into emptiness as a whole rather than "being frozen".)
This scan is in context to Mai wanting to go to a different world that is inside another dimension. But Mai can't go there because it's in a different dimension. Because if it was in the same dimension then as a Spiritual lifeform Mai should be able to go there. This is accepted on the physiology page:

Also, you could see my response above to Veitthai where I give them several scans differentiating between worlds and dimensions.

I think most of it is just a repetition of points I already expressed my disagreement with, so I will not be responding to those specific points.

This would only be required if I treated the hypertimeline as something are accepted, which I didn't. I'm instead trying to prove the existence of Hypertime itself (WITHOUT proposing tier 1 for it or tying it to tier 1). That's all.

If your interpretation requires the existence of a Tier 1 structure, I don't believe you need to explicitly spell out the tiering itself. As long as the existence of the structure is proven, a tier can be assigned at any time; in fact, it must be assigned a tier if it exists.

In anycase, you do need to make it clear to the staff that the interpretation they are agreeing/disagreeing to requires the use of a Tier 1 structure (specifically, the Hypertimeline).

 

[CodeCCLL]

Infinite time has passed

This is the time it takes for Rimuru to be sent beyond space-time and reach the end of space-time. Rimuru's location (another timeline beyond the universe's timeline) might also be another parallel timeline independent of the Cardinal World universe, and this timeline might not end even after infinite time has passed. Perhaps the so-called hypertimeline is this timeline. Therefore, none of the characters who only destroy worlds are scaled to this.

If a hypertimeline is necessary, it can be like this.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

This is the time it takes for Rimuru to be sent beyond space-time and reach the end of space-time. Rimuru's location (another timeline beyond the universe's timeline) might also be another parallel timeline independent of the Cardinal World universe, and this timeline might not end even after infinite time has passed. Perhaps the so-called hypertimeline is this timeline. Therefore, none of the characters who only destroy worlds are scaled to this.

If a hypertimeline is necessary, it can be like this.

I guess that works well enough for now. We can go with this interpretation since this CRT doesn't have anything to do with tier 1.

The main point is: Beyond Time is when Rimuru is outside the conventional timeline and the Universe (timeline) has been destroyed, but the world hasn't. End of Time is when the world has also been destroyed.

We can take the infinite between between "Beyond Time" and "End of Time" as another timeline (paralell or hyper).

Still, that itself means two timelines are there for the same world, so minimum 2-C (regardless of whether you take Dimesnions=worlds or not)

Is that simple enough?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

This is the time it takes for Rimuru to be sent beyond space-time and reach the end of space-time. Rimuru's location (another timeline beyond the universe's timeline) might also be another parallel timeline independent of the Cardinal World universe, and this timeline might not end even after infinite time has passed. Perhaps the so-called hypertimeline is this timeline. Therefore, none of the characters who only destroy worlds are scaled to this.

If a hypertimeline is necessary, it can be like this.

I guess that works well enough for now. We can go with this interpretation since this CRT doesn't have anything to do with tier 1.

The main point is: Beyond Time is when Rimuru is outside the conventional timeline and the Universe (timeline) has been destroyed, but the world hasn't. End of Time is when the world has also been destroyed.

We can take the infinite between between "Beyond Time" and "End of Time" as another timeline (paralell or hyper).

Still, that itself means two timelines are there for the same world, so minimum 2-C (regardless of whether you take Dimesnions=worlds or not)

Is that simple enough?

@EldemadeDityjon thoughts?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Agree:@DarkDragonMedeus, @Elizhaa (with everything), @Reiner04 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions), @Vietthai96 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions)
Disagree: @Reiner04 (with anything above Low 2-C), @Vietthai96 (With anything above Low 2-C)

Neutral/Miscellaneous: @Antvasima (Waiting for @Mr. Bambu to give his thoughts, currently agrees with @Reiner04 but admits he didn't thoroughly read everything)

Updated voting based on this

https://vsbattles.com/members/antvasima.17/#profile-post-124333

 

[Reiner04]

I don't think Bambu ever made it clear if he is interested in this thread or if he is willing to provide his insight on this proposal. Just to make sure i will ping him to remind that the thread is waiting on him. @Mr. Bambu

I will ping other staffs too incase any of them is willing to give their inputs.
@Nierre @Dalesean027 @Firestorm808 @Qawsedf234 @Dereck03 @Dalesean027 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Damage3245 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Maverick_Zero_X

Your input on this thread will be appreciated.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I have been asked here by about half a dozen people. I mentioned to one of them (though I don't recall where) that I was not interested in speaking on the thread. I only stepped in before to try to enact order. I'm not a Tensura person, despite being consistently called on to serve as one. I would prefer not to give my time in this thread if possible.

 

[Reiner04]

I have been asked here by about half a dozen people. I mentioned to one of them (though I don't recall where) that I was not interested in speaking on the thread. I only stepped in before to try to enact order. I'm not a Tensura person, despite being consistently called on to serve as one. I would prefer not to give my time in this thread if possible.

My apologies. The thread was said to be waiting on you, so I assumed someone might have contacted you privately or something. It seems this was rather just a misunderstanding.

 

[Firestorm808]

I've read the OP, but it's not exactly clear if the World's were destroyed on a 4-D scale. Is there any statements in support of this notion?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I've read the OP, but it's not exactly clear if the World's were destroyed on a 4-D scale. Is there any statements in support of this notion?

When Rimuru was BFRed, he was thrown out by the force of "all of time" so we'd assume he's outside the 4D timeline.

Per Ciel’s explanation, I apparently allowed Feldway’s Chrono-Saltation to take effect while I was trying to deal with Milim. Adding one time stop to another one doesn’t change anything, but multiplying them together will bring about dramatic change. That was Dimensional Transfer, or Chrono-Saltation, a technique that stopped the flow of all time and focused it entirely on the target alone. You had the flow of time, paired with the resistance produced by space, trying to hold everything in place. The stronger both were, the further they could bury their target here, in the far end of everything.
Otl V21E

Raws if anyone needs to confirm anything

俺がミリムに対処している隙をつかれて、フェルドウェイの〝時空跳激震覇クロノサルテーション 〟を許してしまったらしい。

時間停止に時間停止を足しても、効果は変わらない。

だがしかし、掛け合わせたならば劇的な変化をもたらすのだと。

それが〝時空転送〟──〝時空跳激震覇クロノサルテーション〟──全ての時間の流れを塞き止め て、それを対象だけに浴びせる技だった。

流れる時間と、固定しようとする空間の反発。それらが強ければ強いほど、対象を〝時空の彼方か なた〟に葬り去れるのだそうだ。

From there Ciel assumed Feldway destroyed the Universe and "the timeline ended".

Ciel didn’t know exactly what had happened in that timeline, however. By the time it had been thrown over here, everything had already ended. We didn’t know what happened to Ivalage or how things had worked out at all,
but what’s certain is that the world did not end. I’m not entirely sure if that’s what Feldway wanted, but it didn’t really matter anyway.
Otl V21E

Since the "World" was still not destroyed and Rimuru was drifting inside it despite being outside all of Time (low 2-c per our standard page on "Universe"), we'd assume it's 2-C.

That's the OP's interpretation.
So unless one takes an interpretation like "worlds always refer to planets", this is the result.

---

Some supporters told me on discord that I should add these scans to the argument:

Destruction of Universe refers to destruction of Time and Space:

There’s a saying: ‘You can’t see even an inch ahead.’
And truly, everything beyond the Barrier was an unknown world.
Sometimes they could see rainbow-colored lights shining far away, but everything between here and there was completely invisible.
A rainbow-colored sphere expanded nearby, then burst and vanished.
Volume 22, Chapter 3
Source

“Hm. I’ve been watching for a while, and did you notice?
Just now, that rainbow-colored sphere swelled up and vanished, right?
I’m pretty sure that was one world… maybe even an entire universe.”
“A universe…?”
“A whole world seriously…?”
Volume 22, Chapter 3
Source

“Inside that sphere, time is flowing.
It even creates a slow ripple of time in the surrounding area, but… we can’t observe it at all.”

Strictly speaking, time was passing.
But since there was no way to measure it directly, Yuuki had relied on clues like the fact that he never felt tired or hungry, and concluded that time either wasn’t moving, or was moving extremely slowly.

Yuuki couldn’t interfere with infons, nor could he observe them.
Everything he thought was only conjecture
Yet even so, his genius let him arrive at the right answer.
Volume 22, Chapter 3
Source

2-C is being argued because a World contains at least more than one Timeline (though it has nothing to do with Chloe's time travel or Hinata's 2-A MWI theory, thus 2-C instead):

If they were on the same world-line, it would be simple enough to say they came from the same country and were the same person.
But in other dimensional worlds, there are cases where entire worlds end up resembling one another, and that makes things complicated.

The basic structure and governing laws of those worlds differ so clearly that they can’t be classified as parallel worlds.
And yet, for some reason, names and other small details often line up in strangely similar ways.

Their levels of civilization vary wildly, and Velgrynd has no reliable way of knowing which dimension, or even which timeline, she’s dealing with.
Parallel worlds never overlap with one another, so two versions of the same being can’t exist on the same timeline to begin with.

In other words, even if she’s visited a place once, that doesn’t guarantee she can ever return to the exact same version of it again.

If she stays within the same timeframe of the dimension she currently occupies, she can pinpoint its exact space–time coordinates.
But the Velgrynd who belongs to that moment already exists there, which means even her Ultimate Skill, Flame God Lord Cthugha’s “Spacetime Jump,” can’t take her there.

---

Added after editing:
If you wish to read the summaries from both sides, please read this:

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

@Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @CrimsonStarFallen @Everything12 @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? 🙏

vsbattles.com

This is the vote tally at the moment:

Agree: DarkDragonMedeus, @Elizhaa (with everything), @Reiner04 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions), @Vietthai96 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions)

Disagree: @Reiner04 (with anything above Low 2-C), @Vietthai96 (With anything above Low 2-C)

Neutral/Miscellaneous: @Antvasima

Thank you for participating!

 

[Reiner04]

Got permission from @Antvasima .

---

This is the summary from the supporting side :

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

@Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @CrimsonStarFallen @Everything12 @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? 🙏

vsbattles.com

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

@Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @CrimsonStarFallen @Everything12 @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? 🙏

vsbattles.com

And this is from the opposing side:

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

My argument isnt world = planets, it's "other worlds" = planets. World and other worlds are separate concepts in the series. I'm aware of the distinction within the series I was speaking generally in my previous statement if that confused you, then I apologize for being unclear. And since so...

vsbattles.com

A Revision about a World of Slimes - Back to Tier 2 (Cosmology)

@Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @CrimsonStarFallen @Everything12 @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? 🙏

vsbattles.com

---

No non-staff member should reply after this with their response arguments as everything had already been summarized. Just let the staff give their votes, please.

@Firestorm808 these are the summaries of both, opposition and supporters of the thread.

This is why i disagreed with the thread:

Alr, I was busy traveling these past few days and my internet wasn't working well enough to clearly present my thoughts on the thread. I finally have some time to put together a concise summary.


"Beyond time" is inherently vague and doesn't indicate anything specific on its own; it could refer to the distant future, the distant past, or any place outside the regular flow of time. Rimuru being thrown into the future already shows that they were sent beyond the conventional time-space. Furthermore, this is not the first fiction I have encountered where "beyond time and space" simply refers to an arbitrarily distant future or past.


Chloe's inability to travel seems to be a verse specific mechanic of this. Since time is stopped, she cannot utilize time-related abilities to move forward or backward, as she could when time normally flows. This is analogous to how one cannot swim forward or backward in frozen water. The change in the fundamental nature of time (being frozen) likely just affecting time-related abilities. Moreover, it has been stated many times that time is merely stopped, not that it ceases to exist. This further supports the interpretation put forth by Elde.


Whether it uses "Spatial Universe" or "Spacetime Continuum" does not change the core issue here. Two distinct spacetimes can vary in size with respect to either space, time, or both. Time is generally considered eternal by default here as we know it, so the variation is most likely have to be referring to space unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Regardless of its spatial or temporal size, a single spacetime will always be Low 2-C unless it shows to contain more than one Low 2-C structure within itself. It seems, however, that the difference being discussed is merely a spatial one.


I don't see any scan in the blog that proves Dimensions and Worlds are different, infact, they have been used interchangebly.


Scan does say they can cross but not always, so this info doesn't proves that Dimension ≠ Worlds. Here:




Chloe can't time travel coz time is frozen.


Your conclusion seems to presume that the verse is Tier 1 and requires the acceptance of processes that would establish the verse at that level. I believe this is far from what this CRT is attempting to propose. You must be specifically clear if your interpretation relies on the use of a hypertimeline, because if that is the case, the acceptance of that structure would need to accompany the acceptance of your overall interpretation.

---

So i am still in agreement with @EldemadeDityjon's interpretation so far.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

@Firestorm808 these are the summaries of both, opposition and supporters of the thread.

This is why i disagreed with the thread:

I got permission to post from any awhile ago. (My comment got deleted before I could post so imma have to rewrite it.but your comment has alot of misunderstandings and lacking context. I’ll make another response today

 

[Reiner04]

I got permission to post from any awhile ago. (My comment got deleted before I could post so imma have to rewrite it.but your comment has alot of misunderstandings and lacking context. I’ll make another response today

I don't think it does, and I also doubt your response will be any different from the one I already received regarding that comment (Which was just a repetition of arguments and interpretations I have already expressed my disagreement with based of reasoning i provided), calling it misunderstanding or anything of sort not really gonna change anything unless a clear scan depicting otherwise.

 

[Firestorm808]

I see.

Can someone say what the proposed changes are?

The OP says:

• Universes: Low 2-C
• Parallel Worlds: 2-C minimum
• World-line: 2-C
• Dimensions: 2-C

What are the ratings currently?

 

[AlexSamDen]

I see.

Can someone say what the proposed changes are?

The OP says:

• Universes: Low 2-C
• Parallel Worlds: 2-C minimum
• World-line: 2-C
• Dimensions: 2-C

What are the ratings currently?

The current rating is "Varies, up to Low 2-C" for Worlds and "Varies" for Dimensions (and 2-A cycle of time), due to the fact that the size of Worlds wasn't elaborated enough on, so it was labeled "Insignificant 4D"

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I see.

Can someone say what the proposed changes are?

The OP says:

• Universes: Low 2-C
• Parallel Worlds: 2-C minimum
• World-line: 2-C
• Dimensions: 2-C

What are the ratings currently?

Currently nothing is even tier 2 except Cycle of Time because of the previous downgrade that takes Universes as below Universal level. Consequently, worlds were also treated as varying in size due to a few stamrneets that this CRT addresses.

The main purpose of this thread is to get the verse back to tier 2 and make a solid foundation.

After that comes the division between different terms and 2-C stuff.
The difference between dimensions can be summed up by this line:

《持久戦に持ち込めば勝利確定だったのですが、こうなるとルヴェルジェの攻撃による影響規模が、全次元の 遍(あまね)く世界にまで及びそうですね》

(My apologies form presenting only the raws. This is from the newest Volume and doesn't have an accepted FTL, OTL or staff translation. But the main point is that it shows how worlds are inside dimensions. This is the most clear scan for that. Currently waiting translation here)

Dimensions: Contain at least 2 worlds (explained here)
Worlds: Contain at least 2 timelines/universes (as explained in my previous reply to you)
Parallel Universes: At least two exist inside each world
Universe: "All of Time" (4D) as explained in the previous reply as well.

 

[Firestorm808]

After looking at the provided blog, I will refrain from discussing scans that lack the original Japanese text for comparison at this time. This includes the "Dimensions" section and most of the "World-line section."

In any case, @Reiner04

Could you clarify your stance on this point?

I see in the OP:

Agree: @Reiner04 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions)

Disagree: @Reiner04 (with anything above Low 2-C)

Regarding "Parallel Worlds", which I assume is a synonym for parallel timelines, you disagree that they meet the requirements of multiple space-time continuums?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

After looking at the provided blog, I will refrain from discussing scans that lack the original Japanese text for comparison at this time. This includes the "Dimensions" section and most of the "World-line section."

I should note, just in case, everything except the one scan in World-line section (that has the Note) is either OTL/Accepted FTL or approved vsbw translation.

All translations used here are either from Slimereader, OTL, or from our wiki translators (either staff or approved members) such as @SeijiSetto, @Dattebayo and @MrTayman616. Huge thanks to all of them, really! This thread wouldn't have been possible without them. Additionaly, if you find any scan that doesn't have a translation (except the More Statements section) please highlight it so it can be added. And if you can't find a source for some translation that isn't OTL or Slimereader, feel free to ask that too.

In case you missed them, scroll down in the gyazo links. The English translation is in the meta-data section a bit below the scan itself.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Reiner and Firestorm.

 

[Reiner04]

After looking at the provided blog, I will refrain from discussing scans that lack the original Japanese text for comparison at this time. This includes the "Dimensions" section and most of the "World-line section."

In any case, @Reiner04

Could you clarify your stance on this point?

I see in the OP:

Agree: @Reiner04 (Low 2-C Worlds/Dimensions)

Disagree: @Reiner04 (with anything above Low 2-C)

Regarding "Parallel Worlds", which I assume is a synonym for parallel timelines, you disagree that they meet the requirements of multiple space-time continuums?

There are apparently no Parallel Worlds but only Other Worlds/Dimensions which is being discussed in this thread too and I already Agred that Dimensions/Worlds are Low 2-C strutures.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Alr, I was busy traveling these past few days and my internet wasn't working well enough to clearly present my thoughts on the thread. I finally have some time to put together a concise summary.


"Beyond time" is inherently vague and doesn't indicate anything specific on its own; it could refer to the distant future, the distant past, or any place outside the regular flow of time. Rimuru being thrown into the future already shows that they were sent beyond the conventional time-space. Furthermore, this is not the first fiction I have encountered where "beyond time and space" simply refers to an arbitrarily distant future or past.

The whole point of this is that rimuru is outside the regular flow of time (timeline) . Meaning that a world encompasses it and should be 2-C due to containing it.

World has a timeline->inside the world there is at least one universe (spacetime continuum) = 2 timelines at least.=2-C

Chloe's inability to travel seems to be a verse specific mechanic of this. Since time is stopped, she cannot utilize time-related abilities to move forward or backward, as she could when time normally flows. This is analogous to how one cannot swim forward or backward in frozen water. The change in the fundamental nature of time (being frozen) likely just affecting time-related abilities. Moreover, it has been stated many times that time is merely stopped, not that it ceases to exist. This further supports the interpretation put forth by Elde.

I can understand the confusion since it does say time stopped flowing which you could think means it is simply frozen. But we also know that time is zero.as the world became nothingness.referring to Nhillity collapse which is nothingness that exists before/beyond hell (hell is a void of true nothingness)


rimuru directly tells you that it is Different from suspended world. Suspended world stops time and space across all possible worlds. So it is literally a direct statement that it is not the same as timestop, even clarifies that he cannot sense information particles which make up everything that exists, this is because void devours information itself.

Additionally. Feldway who plans on destroying the world says that if Nhillity goes out of control it would destroy the world and his goal would be achieved.cause the void would cause the world to collapse

Should even =< subspace which is a void where nothing at all exists as well as being described as being the end after everything

From this we should be able to conclude that the world itself was destroyed and only nothingness was left. As even information which makes up everything in the world get destroyed there.instead of just time being stopped.

Whether it uses "Spatial Universe" or "Spacetime Continuum" does not change the core issue here. Two distinct spacetimes can vary in size with respect to either space, time, or both. Time is generally considered eternal by default here as we know it, so the variation is most likely have to be referring to space unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Regardless of its spatial or temporal size, a single spacetime will always be Low 2-C unless it shows to contain more than one Low 2-C structure within itself. It seems, however, that the difference being discussed is merely a spatial one.

Space and time are corelated.it even says same worlds universe (meaning that the universe is something that belongs contained inside a world) I also don’t see how you could possibly claim the difference is a spatial one when universes are REPEATEDLY called spacetimes/timelines. As per the standards

• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Which is the case here as they are literally seen as rainbow colored spheres.

I don't see any scan in the blog that proves Dimensions and Worlds are different, infact, they have been used interchangebly.


Scan does say they can cross but not always, so this info doesn't proves that Dimension ≠ Worlds. Here:

It says that they can EASILY cross worlds,but for dimensions it is ONLY possible if they are adjacent.this is a clear distinction between them.

Farthermore there are clear differentiation between them. And repeatedly stated that worlds are contained inside dimensions I got the raws translated but I need them verified before I can use them.i will replace them when I get confirmation. For now you will have to check the raws to understand.

Your conclusion seems to presume that the verse is Tier 1 and requires the acceptance of processes that would establish the verse at that level. I believe this is far from what this CRT is attempting to propose. You must be specifically clear if your interpretation relies on the use of a hypertimeline, because if that is the case, the acceptance of that structure would need to accompany the acceptance of your overall interpretation.

Imma just leave this here in case you missed it

• This CRT has nothing to do with Tier 1, so if you think some statements qualify for Tier 1, avoid talking about it as it may derail the original purpose of the CRT instead.

 

[Reiner04]

Farthermore there are clear differentiation between them. And repeatedly stated that worlds are contained inside dimensions I got the raws translated but I need them verified before I can use them.i will replace them when I get confirmation. For now you will have to check the raws to understand.

I have the Tayman version of the translation, which confirms that the terms 'dimensions' and 'worlds' are used interchangeably in this context:
However, Another/other-dimensional worlds, Another world, do exist.

rimuru directly tells you that it is Different from suspended world. Suspended world stops time and space across all possible worlds. So it is literally a direct statement that it is not the same as timestop, even clarifies that he cannot sense information particles which make up everything that exists, this is because void devours information itself.

You cannot possibly compare the effects of an ability to the natural death of the Universe. Rimuru even proceeds to explain how it differs from the Suspended World, specifically, that at the End of Time and Space, even the expansion of space has been halted. There is no mention of how it differs from the Suspended World in a temporal sense.

Space and time are corelated.it even says same worlds universe (meaning that the universe is something that belongs contained inside a world) I also don’t see how you could possibly claim the difference is a spatial one when universes are REPEATEDLY called spacetimes/timelines. As per the standards

• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Which is the case here as they are literally seen as rainbow colored spheres.

This doesn't address or defeat my point. I never claimed that space and time are unrelated; however, the theory of relativity is mentioned in almost all fiction, and that doesn't mean we should grant temporal powers to every user with spatial abilities. But even if we do (we don't but still), what i said previously still stands.

Imma just leave this here in case you missed it

• This CRT has nothing to do with Tier 1, so if you think some statements qualify for Tier 1, avoid talking about it as it may derail the original purpose of the CRT instead.

None of these statements qualify for Tier 1 or a Hypertimeline. The fact is, I am not the one introducing these stuff into the argument, the supporters are. Unless you are suggesting that a Hypertimeline doesn't equate to Tier 1, we cannot ignore the attempts to prove its existence through their interpretation, which is the highest possible interpretation and must be scrutinized accordingly

This would only be required if I treated the hypertimeline as something are accepted, which I didn't. I'm instead trying to prove the existence of Hypertime itself (WITHOUT proposing tier 1 for it or tying it to tier 1). That's all.

Rimru being able to go back to the past isn't even an argument since Chloe with her time travel ability couldn't go back to the past as "time wasn't flowing" (it didn't exist), yet Rimuru could. That's ONLY possible under the existence of hyper time.

.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I have the Tayman version of the translation, which confirms that the terms 'dimensions' and 'worlds' are used interchangeably in this context:
However, Another/other-dimensional worlds, Another world, do exist.

I would like to note that "other-dimensional world" does not have the same meaning as "dimension" even if we go with just the grammatical structure.
As per the dictionary, the meaning of suffix "-al" is

Of or pertaining to. Adjectival suffix appended to various words, often nouns, to produce an adjective form. Often added to words of Latin origin, but used with other words also.

That means that "other-dimensional world" is equal in meaning to "world of/pertaining to another dimension". It cannot be used interchangeably

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I have the Tayman version of the translation, which confirms that the terms 'dimensions' and 'worlds' are used interchangeably in this context:
However, Another/other-dimensional worlds, Another world, do exist.

Why are you only using a part where he didn't clarify what that part refers to, and not the one where he did clarify that?

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

1. I had transIated this before too, here, so is the following correct as well? If Vergrind remembers correctly, his father was the owner of the piece of Rudra's “soul”. His name was Laurent Hayes, and he had been Rudra's companion from the time of his youth until his death. There were many...

vsbattles.com

The "Another World" is Katakana written as smaller sized words above the "Other Dimensional Worlds/Worlds in other dimensions" (Tayman said both are okay). It refers to the English localization of said "world".

Kanji - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Katakana - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

An example of its usage would be "Spirit Particle Collapse (Disintegration)" for 霊子崩壊(ディスインテグレーション)

My guess is the reason why Tayman put the / is because the requester didn't put the katakana inside () braces or use the embed feature to actually write the katakana on top (honestly idk how to do the latter either but I saw it being used a few times by people here in the past, so I use the latter method). Otherwise the sentence just appears as "He is running run on the road" instead of "he is running (RUN) on the road". The braces are an important indicator

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I have the Tayman version of the translation, which confirms that the terms 'dimensions' and 'worlds' are used interchangeably in this context:
However, Another/other-dimensional worlds, Another world, do exist.

Mrtayman says that the translation for the fan translation and official translation are fine. Even more so seijisetto translates it as world of other dimensions/world in alternate dimensions on multiple occasions

You cannot possibly compare the effects of an ability to the natural death of the Universe. Rimuru even proceeds to explain how it differs from the Suspended World, specifically, that at the End of Time and Space, even the expansion of space has been halted. There is no mention of how it differs from the Suspended World in a temporal sense.

The natural death of the universe is literally Nhillity collapse. It is the nothingness left or rather the nothingness that exists before the world was created and rimuru gains access to it and uses it as an ability.

Void is not an ability, it comes from the natural world. An already existing “energy”. Such as hell (a structure) literally being a void yet people are able to summon hells void and use it as an ability.

rimurus Nhillity comes from a void that existed before the world. And he just summons that void and uses it as an ability. That void is known as the end of time and space. You didn’t attack any of my points that show that information doesn’t exist and therefore everything made up of information wouldn’t be able to either.


suspended world already stops both time and space. Space cannot expand without time. It quite literally tells you that unlike the suspended he cannot even sense things via information particles

This doesn't address or defeat my point. I never claimed that space and time are unrelated; however, the theory of relativity is mentioned in almost all fiction, and that doesn't mean we should grant temporal powers to every user with spatial abilities. But even if we do (we don't but still), what i said previously still stands.

I don’t see how this correlates at all. Inverse time simply impacts space. So there is no such thing as affecting time without affecting space.

None of these statements qualify for Tier 1 or a Hypertimeline. The fact is, I am not the one introducing these stuff into the argument, the supporters are. Unless you are suggesting that a Hypertimeline doesn't equate to Tier 1, we cannot ignore the attempts to prove its existence through their interpretation, which is the highest possible interpretation and must be scrutinized accordingly

You can believe that sure. Thats for later. Said interpretation is literally direct quotes on the time frame of what is happening from ciel and rimuru .there is no need at all to go for a certain tier. No one is claiming it doesn’t equate to tier 1 just because we aren’t going for tier 1 in this thread.

It is like making a thread for acasualty type 5 and then trying to knock it just because they aren’t going for tier 0 in said thread even though it is planned later.

 

[Reiner04]

Why are you only using a part where he didn't clarify what that part refers to, and not the one where he did clarify that?

Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)

1. I had transIated this before too, here, so is the following correct as well? If Vergrind remembers correctly, his father was the owner of the piece of Rudra's “soul”. His name was Laurent Hayes, and he had been Rudra's companion from the time of his youth until his death. There were many...

vsbattles.com

The "Another World" is Katakana written as smaller sized words above the "Other Dimensional Worlds/Worlds in other dimensions" (Tayman said both are okay). It refers to the English localization of said "world".

The question he answered was loaded with presumptions.

Well, the verse does treat a Dimension and a World as two different things, with the worlds being contained in dimensions, so I suppose I can take the other worlds in alternate/other dimensions as a yes too?

 

[AlexSamDen]

The question he answered was loaded with presumptions.

The link doesn't work
There's also the matter of my explanation what other-dimensional world means