Raiden (Metal Gear) vs Alarak (Heroes of the Storm) (U.A. Sports Festival Final Event, but it's an 8-A tournament: Round 4) (7-0-0) (Grace)

[koopa3144]

Welcome to Round 4 of the 8-A U.A. Sports Festival Tournament!
​

Spoiler: Rules copied from OG Tourney thread

VS Thread​

• Fights will take place within the Fighting Tournament Ring with a full stadium.
• Competitors are informed of the rules and that they're in a nationally televised competition.
  • Competitors will act in character with this knowledge (I.E a Competitor that doesn't care about winning and fame, not fighting as hard as they normally would, or a Competitor that would kill the opponent despite knowing the rules).
• The conditions for winning a match are: knocking out the opponent, rendering them unable to move, or getting them to step out of bounds/surrender.
  • Another wincon is if a competitor does something that would get them "disqualified' in-universe, that would also count as a win for the opponent (I.E, if Character A kills Character B, that would count as a win for Character B in a VS Thread)
• Killing the opponent/overbrutalizing them, harming or attacking the audience intentionally or unintentionally, or bringing in outside help, will result in an in-universe disqualification.

Tournament Thread Rules:​

• If a character gets no arguments for around 3-4 days, the opposing competitor will automatically go to the next round.
• If a thread gets no votes or the votes are tied for 3-4 days, I will decide who I think advances based on the arguments given.
  • If a character I submitted is involved, however, I will coin-flip instead to prevent any bias on my part.

Raiden (Metal Gear) [Metal Gear Rising (Updated Patriots Cyborg Body)] { Upscales from 156.78 Tons} 7

Alarak (Heroes of the Storm) {Upscales from 500 Tons}: 1

Incon: 0

 

[DaReaperMan]

Guys this glue smells GREAT--

Ahem.

So... Raiden outskills, has a 2x speed amp, and a bunch of other shit. Only advantage he doesn't have is AP/LS/SS...

But he can't fight properly. If this was a legit match he'd stomp Alarak no problem, but it isn't and he can't kill or maim... and thus the unfortunate part is that Alarak NEVER SHUTS UP IN COMBAT.

I might be wrong, but with the absolute amount of shit Alarak talks and the fact he can just decide to throw Raiden out of the field with either electricity or Telekinesis gets him a win in one of two ways:

1. He pisses off Raiden enough to get Raiden to kill or maim him with his dura neg sword. Which is certainly possible, Alarak talks via Telepathy with one of the most condescending voices you will ever hear, and like I said, he never shuts up.
2. Alarak successfully tags Raiden with enough abilities to throw him out of the fighting area, cause he's never landing a straight hit cause of his skill issue.

As for Raiden... his Wincons are overpower Alarak with LS and throw him out of the Arena and... well actually kinda just that. He can do it, it might even be likely. I'm gonna wait for Chariot though.

 

[Chariot190]

There's a supah secret tech but I'm playin monsta hunta with the boys atm... I'll post a few things later from the laundry list of random meme bullshit I've gathered for this key.
ngl I didn't notice no killing was allowed at first but like, it's fine, there's a thing he has that helps with that anyway.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Personally voting Alarak for general stats superiority, lightning that he can spam to hurt Raiden plus zone him out if he gets too dangerous up close and his ultimates potentially just knocking him straight out of the fight by just charging straight at him really hard or hitting him with a super parry that makes him invulnerable during the technique. While not as good as his canon counterpart's telekinesis, it's still good enough to reposition himself or Raiden if Raiden dodges his moves or if Alarak wants to dodge out of the way himself.

 

[Chariot190]

Personally voting Alarak for general stats superiority, lightning that he can spam to hurt Raiden

Real quick, whats the volts/amps on that?

plus zone him out if he gets too dangerous up close and his ultimates potentially just knocking him straight out of the fight by just charging straight at him really hard or hitting him with a super parry that makes him invulnerable during the technique. While not as good as his canon counterpart's telekinesis, it's still good enough to reposition himself or Raiden if Raiden dodges his moves or if Alarak wants to dodge out of the way himself.

Give me like 3 hours because theres some irony here.

 

[Not_Icarus]

We don't have any stats for his lightning unfortunately. For his main counterpart, lightning in his verse can atomize people at peak. But for a safer end, best we got is that it vaporizes ingame grunts and forces someone of his level to be forced to endure his lightning and be pushed back by it.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Raiden's human self can resist electricity that incinerates boxes instantly from what I remember.

Edit: Found it

 

[DaReaperMan]

There's a supah secret tech but I'm playin monsta hunta with the boys atm... I'll post a few things later from the laundry list of random meme bullshit I've gathered for this key.
ngl I didn't notice no killing was allowed at first but like, it's fine, there's a thing he has that helps with that anyway.

For additional advantages Alarak has his Telepathy to read what Raiden wants to do, though he's no Psycho Mantis with it, and generally can Zone when he wants or force tanks.

Raiden's human self can resist electricity that incinerates boxes instantly from what I remember.

Edit: Found it

Pretty sure boxes<9-B or so people

 

[Not_Icarus]

He has resistance to lightning yeah but it still hurts him and can force him off balance or force him to endure it. And yeah like Reaper said, boxes are below people so it will definitely hurt Raiden here

 

[Chariot190]

We don't have any stats for his lightning unfortunately. For his main counterpart, lightning in his verse can atomize people at peak. But for a safer end, best we got is that it vaporizes ingame grunts and forces someone of his level to be forced to endure his lightning and be pushed back by it.

Ok.
Doubt that's good enough then, Raiden even as a human can withstand electricity that can instantly disintegrate things and he withstood a jolt that caused the air to superheat into plasma according to the screenplay. As a obsolete cyborg his own excess discharge is stated to be potent enough to manifest real lightning and instantly carbonize super soldiers wearing suits that can shrug off rocket fuel and whatnot (like that's literally his juice, and yes, the scenario book outright calls it real and notes carbonizing), and by the time of MGR standard military cyborgs have a statement that electrical attacks that would instantly reduce an adult male to ash in the blink of an eye, like don't really do much except daze for a half second.

In turn btw Raiden has electricity that upscales that. If we want numbers, bottom of the scaling chain has 10m volts with Volgin (one of many statements on his profile).

I can give scans for each of these brw in a bit if need be, on Mobile atm.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Oh yeah MGS4 has Raiden has electricity radiating from his body, with screenplay saying his electricity is real lightning or some stuff like that.

 

[Chariot190]

Oh yeah MGS4 has Raiden has electricity radiating from his body, with screenplay saying his electricity is real lightning or some stuff like that.

Not the screenplay, the scenario book, but yeah basically.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Ngl, leaning Alarak only because the amount of shittalk ragebait that he would do my be just enough for Raiden to kill him.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ngl, leaning Alarak only because the amount of shittalk ragebait that he would do my be just enough for Raiden to kill him.

Reminder that Raiden in this key does rage when picked apart a IIRC, and against a guy with telepathy good enough that it lets him instantly know everything about the opponent...

Oh yeah MGS4 has Raiden has electricity radiating from his body, with screenplay saying his electricity is real lightning or some stuff like that.

That's funny, cause Alarak doesn't resist Electricity Manipulation-- and remember that thing about killing? Raiden might straight up be too lethal for this tournament lol

Or maybe Alarak hits him with the ragebait.

 

[Chariot190]

Real quick, how does the teleportation work, can he just do it whenever constantly for free?

 

[Raiden38]

I win ( ishowspeed style)

 

[Not_Icarus]

The teleport is essentially a super, it's a one time move that works once until the next cooldown finishes which is too long to be spammed.

 

[Chariot190]

The teleport is essentially a super, it's a one time move that works once until the next cooldown finishes which is too long to be spammed.

Uh, why can't Raiden just choke him out or something then? Bro even knows a fighting style hyper designed to do basically just that.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm sort of leaning towards Alarak right now but I'll wait for Chariot to elaborate on some stuff more before casting my vote.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Uh, why can't Raiden just choke him out or something then? Bro even knows a fighting style hyper designed to do basically just that.

Well choking doesn't work cause uh, Alarak doesn't have a nose or mouth.

as for normal restraints.... Telekinesis. Or blasting him with lightning 3x Raiden's AP that heals Alarak. Or pissing him off too much with the constant shittalk

 

[Chariot190]

Well choking doesn't work cause uh, Alarak doesn't have a nose or mouth.

Maybe choking was the wrong word, I more meant strangle. Which has far more to do with blood flow than it does oxygen.

as for normal restraints.... Telekinesis.

Unless it's WELL into Class G, that ain't doing anything.

Or blasting him with lightning 3x Raiden's AP that heals Alarak.

I am sure the dude who's own excess discharge is potent enough to generate actual lightning or while having dumb af electric res, and heat res given he's hard stated to resist things that turn people to ash instantly and energy that vaporizes people explicitly, can deal with the energy aspect just fine with his Type 2 immortality long enough to CQC (like the martial art not just boxing).

Or pissing him off too much with the constant shittalk

I thought this was a joke lad. But uh, ok.

Reminder that Raiden in this key does rage when picked apart a IIRC,

He doesn't. The only thing that happened was he started thinking over his philosophy about how he used his sword. That's self doubt not raging.

and against a guy with telepathy good enough that it lets him instantly know everything about the opponent...

Raiden can clear his mind to fight without thinking, something that actually stops mind readers in context. Though that's beside the point.

That's funny, cause Alarak doesn't resist Electricity Manipulation-- and remember that thing about killing? Raiden might straight up be too lethal for this tournament lol

He can evidently throttle it, given he, well he do. Stronger discharges effects his CNT muscle fibers even, we see throughout him doing a lil or a lot depending on the situation.

Or maybe Alarak hits him with the ragebait

This is the dude who managed to stay stable enough mid fight as the nanomachines in his brain began ripping his whole life apart telling him he's a tool, a killer, he's nothing but their project, everything he knows is a lie, even his girlfriend is nothing but a double agent who basically groomed him into a puppet while yapping about aliens, adultery, some sumo dude and needing a 20$, all while the other dude goes "btw I joe Chilled your ass". And he came out of that just fine. Raiden also legit ong has yap about not falling for taunts and mental fortitude under extreme conditions.
Like ong actual line from this key in response to a character preying on his insecurities mid fight and his past trauma is just
"Don’t worry. I’ve heard more than a few super villain spiels in my time… …That’s not gonna change me."

The only time he really got pushed is when Sam used nanomachines to basically uplink the suppressed subconscious emotions of the people he was killing directly into his brain via their nanomachines, causing Raiden to basically get a literal dose of the other side and all this did was make him NOT want to kill, before Monsoon yapped about memes and Raiden went yep ok **** this, embraced the fact he likes to kill and runs with it in so far he accepts killing is in his nature but doesn't need to let it control him or his actions. I'm not so sure this dude can replicate directly preying on Raiden's biggest vulnerability in a way that would matter given the scifi bullshit that had to be done in actual context.

But it's also important to note he establishes after he doesn't kill for the sake of it, and is very much still against killing, but he does what's required for the greater good and if he gets off on it, that's a bonus, not a cause. Hell he was actually against killing Armstrong at first even, and even explains his alter ego doesn't kill for fun, but instead enjoys the thrill and pain of a fight because he's a freaky lil ********* ig.

Now this doesn't mean Raiden won't chop your head off if you're his enemy the instant you blink or a threat, he 100% will. But goading Raiden into killing, JUST to kill? That already failed, thrice (there's codecs even of him feeling bad that all the enemies keep dying when they could be saved). And literal mind breaking bullshit? Ain't new either.

Now, context here, I highly doubt Raiden would be goaded into killing when he KNOWS killing is off limits here, in a normal situation sure, but when it's an actual rule MMA style, he has the will to not break over some rage bait.
Even worse given Raiden has a Solid Eye, he'd all but know dude is trying to get him riled up on purpose.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Maybe choking was the wrong word, I more meant strangle. Which has far more to do with blood flow than it does oxygen.

Alarak is in armor. Kind of can't access his neck. Or any of his limbs. Cause he triples Raiden's AP.

Unless it's WELL into Class G, that ain't doing anything.

it won't break the pin, but it's absolutely something Alarak would do just to play dirty. Also Alarak is like 7 feet tall, and if we assume actual starcraft sized apply he's more like 8 feet, bro is a bit big to be like, full nelson'd.

I am sure the dude who's own excess discharge is potent enough to generate actual lightning or while having dumb af electric res, and heat res given he's hard stated to resist things that turn people to ash instantly and energy that vaporizes people explicitly, can deal with the energy aspect just fine with his Type 2 immortality long enough to CQC (like the martial art not just boxing).

It's also AP, Chariot. Alarak can just electrocute Raiden and hit him.

I thought this was a joke lad. But uh, ok.

He doesn't. The only thing that happened was he started thinking over his philosophy about how he used his sword. That's self doubt not raging.

Raiden can clear his mind to fight without thinking, something that actually stops mind readers in context. Though that's beside the point.

He can evidently throttle it, given he, well he do. Stronger discharges effects his CNT muscle fibers even, we see throughout him doing a lil or a lot depending on the situation.

This is the dude who managed to stay stable enough mid fight as the nanomachines in his brain began ripping his whole life apart telling him he's a tool, a killer, he's nothing but their project, everything he knows is a lie, even his girlfriend is nothing but a double agent who basically groomed him into a puppet while yapping about aliens, adultery, some sumo dude and needing a 20$, all while the other dude goes "btw I joe Chilled your ass". And he came out of that just fine. Raiden also legit ong has yap about not falling for taunts and mental fortitude under extreme conditions.
Like ong actual line from this key in response to a character preying on his insecurities mid fight and his past trauma is just
"Don’t worry. I’ve heard more than a few super villain spiels in my time… …That’s not gonna change me."

The only time he really got pushed is when Sam used nanomachines to basically uplink the suppressed subconscious emotions of the people he was killing directly into his brain via their nanomachines, causing Raiden to basically get a literal dose of the other side and all this did was make him NOT want to kill, before Monsoon yapped about memes and Raiden went yep ok **** this, embraced the fact he likes to kill and runs with it in so far he accepts killing is in his nature but doesn't need to let it control him or his actions. I'm not so sure this dude can replicate directly preying on Raiden's biggest vulnerability in a way that would matter given the scifi bullshit that had to be done in actual context.

But it's also important to note he establishes after he doesn't kill for the sake of it, and is very much still against killing, but he does what's required for the greater good and if he gets off on it, that's a bonus, not a cause. Hell he was actually against killing Armstrong at first even, and even explains his alter ego doesn't kill for fun, but instead enjoys the thrill and pain of a fight because he's a freaky lil ********* ig.

Now this doesn't mean Raiden won't chop your head off if you're his enemy the instant you blink or a threat, he 100% will. But goading Raiden into killing, JUST to kill? That already failed, thrice (there's codecs even of him feeling bad that all the enemies keep dying when they could be saved). And literal mind breaking bullshit? Ain't new either.

Now, context here, I highly doubt Raiden would be goaded into killing when he KNOWS killing is off limits here, in a normal situation sure, but when it's an actual rule MMA style, he has the will to not break over some rage bait.
Even worse given Raiden has a Solid Eye, he'd all but know dude is trying to get him riled up on purpose.

You see, this is what I wanted from you, just an actual showing that Raiden can just choose not to fall for funny shit like that even when people were straight up being tempted to vote for him because of it

Raiden FRA, cause if Alarak can't ragebait, he's only got a mix of throwing him with TK and lightning

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Raiden is a freaking god, man, him FRA

 

[Chariot190]

Alarak is in armor. Kind of can't access his neck.

Do not forget Raiden still has a quantum duraneg blade, and is so precise with it he can chop clothes off normal human civs without harming them as a joke before he gets called out by his support team for being a sicko freak and then he feels bad because he thought it was funny but turns out what can easily be viewed as breaking of multiple war conventions and assault isn't funny.

Or any of his limbs. Cause he triples Raiden's AP.

Since when did a negligible AP advantage stop the Class G from using LS to restrain and incap the Class 5?

it won't break the pin, but it's absolutely something Alarak would do just to play dirty. Also Alarak is like 7 feet tall, and if we assume actual starcraft sized apply he's more like 8 feet, bro is a bit big to be like, full nelson'd

Raiden literally grapples mecha over 100m tall, 103m last I checked actually. Even UGs over 4m tall lie the Mastiff and ragdolls them.
Him being shorter than Volgin or Armstrong ain't stopping him from doing grapples.

.

It's also AP, Chariot. Alarak can just electrocute Raiden and hit him.

No, he can't actually, the "electrocute" part does actually nothing.
Raiden has ample resistances to that aspect.

The energy part sure, I said that myself, but that's where Type 2 comes into play, it'd hurt and damage him yeah, but do not forget, this is the dude who can survive and continue fighting as his organs get blown out and his abdomen is a hollow cavity.

Other relevant feats include Vamp explicitly gouging out his heart and MGR cyborgs being able to survive any form of bodily destruction as long as it doesn't destroy the brain stem.

You see, this is what I wanted from you, just an actual showing that Raiden can just choose not to fall for funny shit like that even when people were straight up being tempted to vote for him because of it

Idk I figured most people would have known given that's basically the plot of both his games.

 

[koopa3144]

Raiden FRA, cause if Alarak can't ragebait, he's only got a mix of throwing him with TK and lightning

Raiden is a freaking god, man, him FRA

Counted!

 

[DaReaperMan]

Do not forget Raiden still has a quantum duraneg blade, and is so precise with it he can chop clothes off normal human civs without harming them as a joke before he gets called out by his support team for being a sicko freak and then he feels bad because he thought it was funny but turns out what can easily be viewed as breaking of multiple war conventions and assault isn't funny.

which is more than likely going to hit flesh as well, because Raiden doesn't know Alarak's physiology.

Since when did a negligible AP advantage stop the Class G from using LS to restrain and incap the Class 5?

Since when was having triple the opponent's stats "Negligible"? Also, it means the TK is going to Hurt Raiden quite a bit. Hell Alarak is a one-shot above his number value.

Raiden literally grapples mecha over 100m tall, 103m last I checked actually. Even UGs over 4m tall lie the Mastiff and ragdolls them.
Him being shorter than Volgin or Armstrong ain't stopping him from doing grapples.

CONVENTIONAL grapples aren't going to work though, he can sure flip Alarak, but Alarak can just fly and call him a cyborg-based slur. He can restrain one or two limbs, but Alarak can just blast him

No, he can't actually, the "electrocute" part does actually nothing.
Raiden has ample resistances to that aspect.

The energy part sure, I said that myself, but that's where Type 2 comes into play, it'd hurt and damage him yeah, but do not forget, this is the dude who can survive and continue fighting as his organs get blown out and his abdomen is a hollow cavity.

Other relevant feats include Vamp explicitly gouging out his heart and MGR cyborgs being able to survive any form of bodily destruction as long as it doesn't destroy the brain stem.

And this stops it from throwing Raiden how? Alarak kind of only needs one or two good rounds before Raiden is forced out of the field of play. the AP part is specifically because Alarak IC already knocks people back with his AP, a 3x advantage is only going to make it multiple times worse.

Idk I figured most people would have known given that's basically the plot of both his games.

Evidently not, it seems.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I still voted for Alarak awhile ago so count that in. I'm still fine with Alarak hitting Raiden with lightning waves over 3x his his stats plus having his telekinises to make the fight have favorable positions for him even if he can't restrain Raiden. His ultimates are still great moves here for Alarak to utilize as either bulldozing right through him or countering Raiden with a super move right after his invulnerability ends during the technique.

 

[koopa3144]

I still voted for Alarak awhile ago so count that in.

Sorry, I missed that. Counted!

 

[MochOath]

Raiden resisting the urge to kill Alarak:

 

[Chariot190]

which is more than likely going to hit flesh as well,

I'm going to ignore how you're arguing that this dude is actively trying to get himself killed when it's very much still in character and I'm pretty sure he'd want to live.

If Raiden is skilled enough to strip people down to their underwear without scratching them in a single slash, I'm positive he can do so here to the very blatantly still humanoid character especially when he has some degree of scanners, and besides, just for argument's sake, say that Raiden just barely grazes him and cuts him, a few cuts won't hurt this dude, he has regen, that's well within tourney rules.

because Raiden doesn't know Alarak's physiology.

Solid Eye? That lil eye patch thing Raiden has has a shit ton of analytical abilities.

Since when was having triple the opponent's stats "Negligible"? Also, it means the TK is going to Hurt Raiden quite a bit. Hell Alarak is a one-shot above his number value.

It's negligible given what Raiden can survive (and also heal from), plus Raiden doesn't feel pain so anything short of like extreme bodily destruction that makes it so he physically can't perform said action, isn't going to stop him from doing so.

CONVENTIONAL grapples aren't going to work though, he can sure flip Alarak, but Alarak can just fly and call him a cyborg-based slur. He can restrain one or two limbs, but Alarak can just blast him

And why not? If Raiden or Snake can put someone like Volgin in a lock, why can't he do the same to someone shorter?

Doesn't need to last long either, he can take some blasts, all that matters is he strangles him enough to knock him out which takes what, a few seconds tops? Helps that nanorepair paste is a thing so he can take at least a few lethal hits.
Though if they're lethal, he'd win anyway would he not?

And this stops it from throwing Raiden how? Alarak kind of only needs one or two good rounds before Raiden is forced out of the field of play.

The LS? The literal millions of times discrepancy? Same reason why Psycho Mantic couldn't TK Snake despite trying to despite being able to throw around giant mecha?
Unless you mean like, just hitting and knocking him away?

You said it yourself earlier, he'd struggle to even hit Raiden, and let's not forget Raiden still has speed amps here. Not as potent as Custom Body obviously and they're far more limited, but he still has a 2x amp and the ability to slow his perception to a crawl for a split second to react to attacks (and no, this isn't Blade mode).

the AP part is specifically because Alarak IC already knocks people back with his AP, a 3x advantage is only going to make it multiple times worse.

Ok so it is AP, why can't Raiden just dodge? Or even use his speed amps to avoid them?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm going to ignore how you're arguing that this dude is actively trying to get himself killed when it's very much still in character and I'm pretty sure he'd want to live.

You underestimate how full of himself Alarak is if you honestly think that he'd think his constant shit-talking would get him killed.

If Raiden is skilled enough to strip people down to their underwear without scratching them in a single slash, I'm positive he can do so here to the very blatantly still humanoid character especially when he has some degree of scanners, and besides, just for argument's sake, say that Raiden just barely grazes him and cuts him, a few cuts won't hurt this dude, he has regen, that's well within tourney rules.

You need PG-13 levels of blood here, shit's for all audiences. It's like cussing in the Amazing Digital Circus.

So yeah making a thing bleed across it's entire torso would be pretty damning.

Solid Eye? That lil eye patch thing Raiden has has a shit ton of analytical abilities.

Protoss become energy on death,(Or shadows, in the case of Dark Templar) literally get energy like plants, and their tech is advanced enough to allow Teleportation. The Solid Eye ain't scanning shit effectively. Raiden would get the general shape of Alarak, maybe the composition of the armor(Which isn't an earthly metal, but it doesn't matter cuz it follows the laws of physics) and nothing about Alarak's biology. Even the Zerg can't get Protoss biology down, and they CAN do Macro-Quantum shit like Psionic Storm.

It's negligible given what Raiden can survive (and also heal from), plus Raiden doesn't feel pain so anything short of like extreme bodily destruction that makes it so he physically can't perform said action, isn't going to stop him from doing so.

It will launch him like a bean bag though. And that's what Alarak needs.

And why not? If Raiden or Snake can put someone like Volgin in a lock, why can't he do the same to someone shorter?

Yeah, with one arm. Alarak only needs one to use an ability to slam him. Or hell, he needs no arms to fly up and ask Raiden how confident he is here

Doesn't need to last long either, he can take some blasts, all that matters is he strangles him enough to knock him out which takes what, a few seconds tops? Helps that nanorepair paste is a thing so he can take at least a few lethal hits.

Show me where Alarak's neck is in this image.

You can't see it. Also even if Raiden did somehow manage to strangle Alarak, Protoss are known to sort of die where they'd be knocked out.

The LS? The literal millions of times discrepancy? Same reason why Psycho Mantic couldn't TK Snake despite trying to despite being able to throw around giant mecha?

That's a weakness of Psycho Mantis' TK, not necessarily what happens to TK as a whole unless you resist it. But that is probably MG being outdated.

Unless you mean like, just hitting and knocking him away?

You said it yourself earlier, he'd struggle to even hit Raiden, and let's not forget Raiden still has speed amps here. Not as potent as Custom Body obviously and they're far more limited, but he still has a 2x amp and the ability to slow his perception to a crawl for a split second to react to attacks (and no, this isn't Blade mode).

Ok so it is AP, why can't Raiden just dodge? Or even use his speed amps to avoid them?

Cause Raiden just got blasted with lightning 3X his AP and just got slammed with a Charge. He's going flying like Senator Armstrong got his hands on him.

 

[Chariot190]

You underestimate how full of himself Alarak is if you honestly think that he'd think his constant shit-talking would get him killed.

Dude, if he can read minds I'm pretty sure he'd know "oh shit maybe I SHOULDN'T try to goad the literal schizophrenic psychopath dude who can outbox someone reading his mind on his resume with precog on top of that that ALSO has a weapon that can instantly kill me" might at least be concerning.

You need PG-13 levels of blood here, shit's for all audiences. It's like cussing in the Amazing Digital Circus.

It very much isn't, the actual tourney this is based on ended with a lad basically crippled.

So yeah making a thing bleed across it's entire torso would be pretty damning.

Legit PG-13. You're acting like he's being gutted, not cut in what is basically MMA style fight. ALSO, wouldn't matter because HF Blade would likely cauterize the wound anyway.

Protoss become energy on death,(Or shadows, in the case of Dark Templar) literally get energy like plants, and their tech is advanced enough to allow Teleportation. The Solid Eye ain't scanning shit effectively.

It very much is given the thing it needs to scan is basic biology proportions. Unless you want to argue "humanoid dude's basic body shape" is to complex to scan.

Raiden would get the general shape of Alarak, maybe the composition of the armor(Which isn't an earthly metal, but it doesn't matter cuz it follows the laws of physics) and nothing about Alarak's biology.
Even the Zerg can't get Protoss biology down, and they CAN do Macro-Quantum shit like Psionic Storm.

Yeah ok see? If he can get the shape of him, why are you arguing "but actually he accidentally gores him"?
That's literally all he needs? Why ya'll acting like Raiden needs to know all this other shit to go "hey choking a mf out is usually a good not lethal solution".

It will launch him like a bean bag though. And that's what Alarak needs.

If it:
1. Hits him.
2. He isn't already choked out first.
3. Isn't stunned given Raiden can summon bolts to strike and paralyze, at least for a lil bit.
4. The super secret 4th option of striking the lil ! above his head and stunning him for a bit.

Yeah, with one arm. Alarak only needs one to use an ability to slam him. Or hell, he needs no arms to fly up and ask Raiden how confident he is here

You avoided the question, if Raiden and Snake can do things like headlocks, grapples and more on haracters just as large as this dude, extremely easily, such as wrapping their legs around their neck and using their arms to restrain his as they strangle them, what's actually stopping that here? I'd understand if dude was like 20ft tall but shorter than Armstrong and Volgin? This isn't even MGS thing, this is a irl thing.
And given Raiden can jump hundreds of meters? I'd assume confident.
Also why is he getting the chance to do all that? If his foe decides to fly away, Raiden is just going into Blade Mode and cutting him before he gets to far.

And I do mean that, what's he gonna do? Leave the arena? His attack range caps at 13m, he can't really go past that and still fight, any further may as well be self-BFR, and 13m is absolutely nothing, Raiden can jump that easy, hell that's about the same height as MG REX and Raiden can clear that bad boy in a single leap as shown in a vastly inferior body.

Show me where Alarak's neck is in this image.

You can't see it.

Yes, now what happens if Raiden enters Blade Mode and slices his armor off? A thing he does thousands of times throughout MGR, and can do with such precision he doesn't actually nick the person wearing it?

You can't see it because it's covered, I'm arguing being armored doesn't matter against the character who has the means to remove it and has done exactly that thousands of times.

Also even if Raiden did somehow manage to strangle Alarak, Protoss are known to sort of die where they'd be knocked out.

"You can't kill this character".
"You also can't knockout this character because they die being knocked out".

My brother in christ you can't be fr right now.
If that's the case I'm actually asking OP to remove this dude, there's no real way to defeat said character, but not because he's strong, not even because he wins, but because he's to pathetically weak to not die over a stiff breeze and win by loophole. Also like, idk about you but I'd call that a MASSIVE WEAKNESS, why isn't such a obscene flaw not in his weakness section if true?

That's a weakness of Psycho Mantis' TK, not necessarily what happens to TK as a whole unless you resist it. But that is probably MG being outdated.

Uh no, that's just him not having the LS to move the dude with good LS actively resisting it . The weakness is more so "Tk don't work if TK < LS".

Cause Raiden just got blasted with lightning 3X his AP and just got slammed with a Charge. He's going flying like Senator Armstrong got his hands on him.

Why'd you avoid the nanorepair paste+immortality thing? Or the speed amps? He can take at least a solid 5 crippling blows before it matters, 5 might not seem like a lot, but give Raiden's skill and general kit, getting those 5 hits ain't easy before he gets his own in.
You yourself already admitted he'd be hardpressed to even tag Raiden, Raiden while not having any blitz lv amps (outside of of things that only last a split second), makes tagging him even more difficult atop that.

Flinging Raiden around only matters if it actually hits him, and it isn't like Raiden hasn't actively been flung large distances and simply used his environment to fling himself back mid-fling such as against Mistral.

I'm legit not seeing why Raiden doesn't just shred his armor, out box him, grapple him, or even just knock him out with the HF Blade's stun function or a throttled zap of electricity.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Dude, if he can read minds I'm pretty sure he'd know "oh shit maybe I SHOULDN'T try to goad the literal schizophrenic psychopath dude who can outbox someone reading his mind on his resume with precog on top of that that ALSO has a weapon that can instantly kill me" might at least be concerning.

Alarak absolutely would be a bastard about that. It doesn't necessarily mean he won't try to dodge but overestimating himself? Oh yeah. Also Alarak purposely tries to piss his opponents off for the same reason as Sam in-canon for Starcraft.

It very much isn't, the actual tourney this is based on ended with a lad basically crippled.

Legit PG-13. You're acting like he's being gutted, not cut in what is basically MMA style fight. ALSO, wouldn't matter because HF Blade would likely cauterize the wound anyway.

I was about to respond to this but I remembered that the HF Blade probably won't be set to just cut through people and do what it did to Sam.

It very much is given the thing it needs to scan is basic biology proportions. Unless you want to argue "humanoid dude's basic body shape" is to complex to scan.

Yeah ok see? If he can get the shape of him, why are you arguing "but actually he accidentally gores him"?
That's literally all he needs? Why ya'll acting like Raiden needs to know all this other shit to go "hey choking a mf out is usually a good not lethal solution"

We don't see protoss guts spilling out

If it:
1. Hits him.
2. He isn't already choked out first.
3. Isn't stunned given Raiden can summon bolts to strike and paralyze, at least for a lil bit.
4. The super secret 4th option of striking the lil ! above his head and stunning him for a bit.

1. Which will be preceded by the lightning to more guarantee it
2. See below
3. TBH Alarak is liable to dodge that

You avoided the question, if Raiden and Snake can do things like headlocks, grapples and more on haracters just as large as this dude, extremely easily, such as wrapping their legs around their neck and using their arms to restrain his as they strangle them, what's actually stopping that here? I'd understand if dude was like 20ft tall but shorter than Armstrong and Volgin? This isn't even MGS thing, this is a irl thing.

Alarak does not need two hands to throw TK, or lightning, or even Counter Strike. He only needs one. Volgin and Armstrong can't just point their hand at someone and blast them. It's like if Alarak had a gun, just because one hand was restrained doesn't mean he can't just aim and fire.

And given Raiden can jump hundreds of meters? I'd assume confident.
Also why is he getting the chance to do all that? If his foe decides to fly away, Raiden is just going into Blade Mode and cutting him before he gets to far.

The point was assuming Raiden had already grabbed on. Alarak just flies until Raiden gets Acrophobia.

And I do mean that, what's he gonna do? Leave the arena? His attack range caps at 13m, he can't really go past that and still fight, any further may as well be self-BFR, and 13m is absolutely nothing, Raiden can jump that easy, hell that's about the same height as MG REX and Raiden can clear that bad boy in a single leap as shown in a vastly inferior body.

Put Raiden out of bounds, honestly. Alarak is that much of a petty asshole to just put Raiden over the line.

Yes, now what happens if Raiden enters Blade Mode and slices his armor off? A thing he does thousands of times throughout MGR, and can do with such precision he doesn't actually nick the person wearing it?

I'm like 90% sure Protoss don't wear anything under their armor/robes. So bad idea to do that unless we want to finally answer how Protoss reproduce.

You can't see it because it's covered, I'm arguing being armored doesn't matter against the character who has the means to remove it and has done exactly that thousands of times.

See above

"You can't kill this character".
"You also can't knockout this character because they die being knocked out".

My brother in christ you can't be fr right now.
If that's the case I'm actually asking OP to remove this dude, there's no real way to defeat said character, but not because he's strong, not even because he wins, but because he's to pathetically weak to not die over a stiff breeze and win by loophole. Also like, idk about you but I'd call that a MASSIVE WEAKNESS, why isn't such a obscene flaw not in his weakness section if true?

Raiden can just chuck Alarak out of the ******' arena lmfao, so can rest of the opponents

That's most of why I voted for Raiden, because he's not going to be goaded into murder it basically means Alarak's actual chances are knockback and technicalities. It just means he doesn't get stomped.

Raiden FRA, cause if Alarak can't ragebait, he's only got a mix of throwing him with TK and lightning

Uh no, that's just him not having the LS to move the dude with good LS actively resisting it . The weakness is more so "Tk don't work if TK < LS".

Which isn't necessarily the case for every verse. Death in Darksiders 2 can outright stalemate Samael's TK and still get thrown around by it. Alarak doesn't go for restraints he throws a ****** around.

Why'd you avoid the nanorepair paste+immortality thing? Or the speed amps? He can take at least a solid 5 crippling blows before it matters, 5 might not seem like a lot, but give Raiden's skill and general kit, getting those 5 hits ain't easy before he gets his own in.
You yourself already admitted he'd be hardpressed to even tag Raiden, Raiden while not having any blitz lv amps (outside of of things that only last a split second), makes tagging him even more difficult atop that.

Why do you think? Alarak wouldn't necessarily be trying to kill Raiden, if he was he'd just Counterstrike him into ******* oblivion and tell him to git gud, so the heals are effective.

Flinging Raiden around only matters if it actually hits him, and it isn't like Raiden hasn't actively been flung large distances and simply used his environment to fling himself back mid-fling such as against Mistral.

Against Mistral he wasn't required to stay in a certain area.

I'm legit not seeing why Raiden doesn't just shred his armor, out box him, grapple him, or even just knock him out with the HF Blade's stun function or a throttled zap of electricity.

Alarak doesn't resist Electricity so it might kill him, but otherwise, yeah, that's why I voted for Raiden earlier. I'm just arguing that Alarak has decent wincons not that he wins more than 50% of the time.

Also I just wanted to argue Alarak.

 

[Chariot190]

Alarak absolutely would be a bastard about that. It doesn't necessarily mean he won't try to dodge but overestimating himself? Oh yeah. Also Alarak purposely tries to piss his opponents off for the same reason as Sam in-canon for Starcraft.

Yes and we already went over why that doesn't work. Sam's taunts don't even work really on Raiden, he just happened to hit an extremely traumatic sore point and all it did was make Raiden think about his end goals, he still fights just fine and can pick who and what needs to die (there's a shit ton of codecs on this throughout).
In which that quick exchange ends with Raiden outright stating he was able to deduce how Sam thinks and fights as well.

Unless this dude can do wacky stuff like straight up force Raiden to live through his victims' minds as he cuts them up, messing up his combat ability is going to be a high hurdle.

I was about to respond to this but I remembered that the HF Blade probably won't be set to just cut through people and do what it did to Sam.

HF Blade literally has a stun function, but no, HF Blades are extremely hot temp wise, it's why when Raiden cuts things they usually have a giant red hot cross section too. They can even vaporize flesh on contact, actually thinking on it when he stabs himself with his blade, you can literally see him and Vamp's wounds start to steam.

Though Sam was more because he had HF resistant armor.

We don't see protoss guts spilling out

Dude, what are you talking about? You argued Raiden wouldn't be able to just cut his armor without bisecting or goring him for whatever reason, and eventually you conceded that yeah he can likely analyze his body shape so why is this a point of contention?

1. Which will be preceded by the lightning to more guarantee it

Raiden either dodges, or just doesn't care because he can take a handful of those before it wears out his healing factor given the electrical electrical aspect of it isn't enough to matter, simpy the energy portion.

2. See below
3. TBH Alarak is liable to dodge that

Speed amp+Blade Mode.
Now it isn't custom body so they don't last forever but a handful of uses is still sufficiently problematic.

Alarak does not need two hands to throw TK,

TK is useless, lacks the LS.

or lightning, or even Counter Strike.

And what is the chances of him defeating Raiden with those before Raiden shreds his armor via Blade Mode, strangles him with CQC, or just summons a bolt on top of him in turn to ko.

He only needs one. Volgin and Armstrong can't just point their hand at someone and blast them.

It's like if Alarak had a gun, just because one hand was restrained doesn't mean he can't just aim and fire.

Rear Body Lock, Rear Naked Choke, the Gift Wrap, various Judo Hadaka-Jime grips, and various back grabs that use seatbelt type cinches. All techniques that Raiden knows.

All of these restrain, block blood flow, and either locks arm motion while also preventing him from aiming at him to begin with, with said arm.

The point was assuming Raiden had already grabbed on. Alarak just flies until Raiden gets Acrophobia.

NICE TRY BUT RAIDEN HAS ENHANCED VESTIBULARS TO PREVENT THAT AND ENABLE HEIGHTENED ACROBATIC ACTIONS

Also uh, what's stopping Raiden from just zapping him a lil or continuing to grab him? It only takes a few seconds for blackout with proper form? Which Riden has in spades given we see him do it a bunch to quite literally ko people "safely" within seconds.

Put Raiden out of bounds, honestly. Alarak is that much of a petty asshole to just put Raiden over the line.

Ok then what happens if Raiden at last second like, initiates Blade Mode or his self time dilation two diff things btw and just does a flip off him while pushing him out of line?
We legit ong see him perform acrobatics off people and on said people numerous times throughout MGR.

Raiden is always going to be capable of reacting in time, ESPECIALLY because he has the Soliton Radar built into him, he's always going to have a live environmental feed of the entire area fed directly into his brain so it's not like he won't realize what bro is trying to do by pushing him out.

I'm like 90% sure Protoss don't wear anything under their armor/robes. So bad idea to do that unless we want to finally answer how Protoss reproduce.

I've seen worse on live TV

See above

I did see above, OP did not say nudity wasn't allowed
Technically speaking Raiden is naked too so it's only fair

Raiden can just chuck Alarak out of the ******' arena lmfao, so can rest of the opponents

Can he not teleport? If it's that simple why tf are we even arguing when the first thing we see the dude do in MGR is toss like 50m tall mechazord 100m.

That's most of why I voted for Raiden, because he's not going to be goaded into murder it basically means Alarak's actual chances are knockback and technicalities. It just means he doesn't get stomped.

Idk chief, pretty sure a nice lil stab here and there is fine, wouldn't be the worst thing seen on live TV.

Which isn't necessarily the case for every verse.

Actually, I'm pretty certain that's our default assumption on wiki, hence why we give TK various LS ratings to begin with. A Class 10 TK isn't going to do much against Class T Vegito or whatever.

Death in Darksiders 2 can outright stalemate Samael's TK and still get thrown around by it. Alarak doesn't go for restraints he throws a ****** around.

Yeah so does Mantis?

Why do you think? Alarak wouldn't necessarily be trying to kill Raiden, if he was he'd just Counterstrike him into ******* oblivion and tell him to git gud, so the heals are effective.

But if they're effective why argue the attacks as if they matter still, if said attacks don't actually impede Raiden from performing a win condition, they're not exactly topical to the point of discussion?

Against Mistral he wasn't required to stay in a certain area.

That misses the point of how he is still easily able to just use the environment around him to halt or even redirect his momentum to prevent himself from being flung away.

Alarak doesn't resist Electricity so it might kill him, but otherwise, yeah, that's why I voted for Raiden earlier. I'm just arguing that Alarak has decent wincons not that he wins more than 50% of the time.

You don't resist electricity either but not every shock is gonna kill you.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Raiden FRA.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Just want to say that you don't need equal lifting strength to put someone out of balance. Alarak can use his telekinises to trip or move someone into or out of his way. It's like making someone slip on ice on command rather than fighting someone in arm wrestling. It's also a move that requires no physical movement and can be done with just his mind.

 

[Chariot190]

Just want to say that you don't need equal lifting strength to put someone out of balance. Alarak can use his telekinises to trip or move someone into or out of his way. It's like making someone slip on ice on command rather than fighting someone in arm wrestling. It's also a move that requires no physical movement and can be done with just his mind.

You kind of do when the character in question is a million times above the force output there and ong has vestibular enhancements as to not lose balance.

 

[Not_Icarus]

It's not like he has ground anchors on himself like Robocop lol. Folks like Hulk and Spiderman get tripped by people literally leagues below them in lifting strength just because they were tricked into bad positioning or got moved by telekinesis in bad moments. Alarak also has his discord strike here to shutdown down special moves like blade mode from Raiden for several seconds every time he gets hit by it.

 

[Chariot190]

It's not like he has ground anchors on himself like Robocop lol. Folks like Hulk and Spiderman get tripped by people literally leagues below them in lifting strength just because they were tricked into bad positioning or got moved by telekinesis in bad moments.

Uh yes he does actually, he has retractable claws, suction cups, and grips on his feet.

Alarak also has his discord strike here to shutdown down special moves like blade mode from Raiden for several seconds every time he gets hit by it.

Define special move right now as Blade Mode itself isn't a move, it's a state that just throttles his own perception at the cost of electrolytes.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Define special move right now as Blade Mode itself isn't a move, it's a state that just throttles his own perception at the cost of electrolytes.

Anything that's not running and Melee attacks. Shit disables jumping over walls, charging, Slamming someone over your head, Breath Attacks, the ability to throw grenades or shoot your gun in a certain way... etc.

It's something that lands once and Raiden just dodges the wind up every other time.