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SHY - Unilord brings not only light, but upgrades to the world

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Jackof_noTrades068

Jackof_noTrades068

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The translations were pretty behind on this series, now that I've binge read the entire Neverland arc which was like 50+ chapters, a couple of changes are due. Taking a big gulp while typing this out cause it is a lot.

Summary
  • High 6-C upgrades based on a calc
  • Shy profile update with new abilities
  • Ability removal for Shy, while Hollow and Tzveta gain resistances
  • Varies ratings being added to Psychic energy users
  • Lifting strength upgrade based on a calc

Unilord attack scaling:

So essentially in SHY, Volume 17, chapters 141 and 142. Unilord and the heroes across the world rallied 115247 civilians across the world to wish for the global rainclouds to be cleared out. This emotional energy was funneled into Unilord and fired a beam which parted clouds. The part that matters here is that each individual contribution to the attack was High 6-C. This contribution being made by 115246 ordinary civilians + an Untransformed Iko Koishikawa.

Minor context on how Psychic energy and hero bracelets even work so you're not confused on why people can scale from this. So in this verse, Psychic energy is an emotional energy source stemming from 'The Heart'. Most humans are unable to use it. Not cause they lack it, but because they don’t have a method to convert it into physical phenomena or conventional energy (except those with Special training like Himalayan Monks and Ninjas)
Superheroes have Heart-Shift Bracelets to convert this energy into powers. Unilord's ability revolves around connecting to the hearts of other people to convert their emotions into energy. If you are following along, Unilord is essentially a massive heart-shift bracelet that can function more akin to a spirit bomb. While bracelets let you weaponize only what you have. I went more extensive detail on a previous CRT i went into detail on Psychic energy output being correlative with the strength of a hero's abilities (like Shy's fire blasts or Utsuro's wind) if further clarification is needed.

Why doesn't everyone under the sun scale? Cause having access to heart shift bracelets does not necessarily mean you have a strong heart. BoS Shy is an example of a hero with an extremely weak psyche (Mian Long as well). Bracelets are energy converters, not generators. Shown further by the opposite case, how 3 year old Shine (Mei Momijiyama) is described as a monster who did not need bracelets to use her Heart Power. While in her pre teen years after learning to control her power more her energy output is described as immense by Nirvana.

Shy and her abilities:

Here is a new updated Sandbox for The Neverland arc. Compared to the old profile. Biggest changes are her stats, massive update on weaknesses, the scar transformation abilities as well as varies for most of her stats (elaborated on in the next section).
The new abilities she has with Scar transformation are:
Varies ratings for Psychic Energy users:
Since the heart fluctuates in strength in correlation with the psyche said correlation not just applying to only abilities but also physicals, I propose a varies is added to the profiles of heroes like Shy or Lady Black. The justification will be this.
Varies (The strength of a hero is dependent on the strength of their psyche. Where a weak psyche or being emotionally compromised can weaken you to the extent you cannot transform<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Jackof_noTrades068/TeruSandBox#cite_note-SHY1-15"><span>[</span>15<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Jackof_noTrades068/TeruSandBox#cite_note-SHY152-68"><span>[</span>68<span>]</span></a> or use your powers effectively. As shown with Spirits fading out of her hero form due to her intense sadness<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Jackof_noTrades068/TeruSandBox#cite_note-SHY24-57"><span>[</span>57<span>]</span></a> or Stardust's 'Flow' heart power struggling to reflect Teru's punch properly which it was easily doing earlier)

This also means that more caution will have to be taken when scaling characters to each other in this series. If a hero is bummed out or feeling really sad then the person fighting them would not scale to their full power.

Minor corrections:

Low regeneration for Shy should be removed, it was revealed that it is actually a unique property of Made In Heart rings to heal people, as they are designed to fix the scars of the heart. With the heart correlating with the body. Initially it was assumed heart shift bracelets did the same cause Made In Heart rings were stated to be similar to the bracelets, but due to a lack of information the extent of this similarity was over estimated. Every claim of Regen in Shy's profile and eventually other heroes will just be slapped into her stamina section now.

On Teru's profile her fire heat should be upgraded to Upscaling 2470 degrees celsius for vaporizing metal fence bars with an accidental leak of her fire powers which is already listed on her profile. With pools often opting for Aluminum or Galvanized steel (Aluminum is a budget option though so that will be the lowball). Which she did while fighting off corruption, looking nauseous and being emotionally compromised.
This affects Tzveta since she can tank a fully transformed Shy's fire.
Hollow is missing heat resistance, she just tanks Teru's fire head on as well.

Hollow is missing duplication. Shy figures out she can make clones using Mai's heart cause she was thinking of things Ninjas should be able to do (totally not a shadow clone jutsu reference). Duplication is also already on Shy's profile when she has Mai''s ring and Mai explained her ring has her powers. To really hammer it home, when stigma stole Mai's ring, he could make his own clones with it.

Lifting strength
There is not much to say on this front, this basically scales to Shy herself, Utsuro (Stronger than Shy and clashes with her several times) and Empowered Tzveta. Just changing values, not scaling. Only disclaimer is that an empowered Shy is the one that scales and achieved this, not her bare minimum / casual strength.

Votes:

Agree: Emirp Sumitpo (Will Reevaluate later), Godernet, KingTempest (2) | Non-Staff: Arkenis (Everything except Individual High 6-C scaling, willing to concede on Likely for Scar Transformations)

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
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I have an issue with the individual scaling thing.
I know the verse works off psychic/emotion energy, but the page says Unilord is converting the people's emotion into energy, not that it's their energy alone, but I can see an argument for this being Unilord's feat since she exerted herself beyond her normal means.

Jackof_noTrades068 said:
BoS Shy is an example of a hero with an extremely weak psyche
Click to expand...
This doesn't say she has weak psyche. But either way, her heart is stronger than regular humans at chapter 1 given the fact she's being a hero, and the same humans who aided in this feat have no reason to have better control on their psyche energy.
If she can't fully utilize her power than, what shows during Tokyo arc or this arc that she can?

Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Civilians with a strong psyche from being inspired by Stardust's concert (Psychic energy in this verse grants empowerment)
Click to expand...
If this is true, why does anyone scale? They're all being empowered. Everyone around the world who's contributing would be empowered by helping out here because they want a future.

Also this just doesn't come off as something demonstrative of power. Your argument is that everyone doesn't scale because everyone doesn't have a strong heart, but some do. But what I want to know or what should be added is what shows Shy and the others now have the needed level to be rated that high.
 
Arkenis said:
I have an issue with the individual scaling thing.
I know the verse works off psychic/emotion energy, but the page says Unilord is converting the people's emotion into energy, not that it's their energy alone, but I can see an argument for this being Unilord's feat since she exerted herself beyond her normal means.
Click to expand...
Thing is that I already explained how Emotions are the fuel for Psychic Energy in the verse in both the varies section and the individual scaling bit. Along with the inverse of this feat being achieved without a power like Unilord’s since Stigma got people to passively wish for a rain covered world.
Cool to see you agree on Unilord’s bit since who knows I guess it could come in handy later when more of the series gets translated. In the event anyone directly scales to 1000 people Unilord’s energy output or something.

Arkenis said:
This doesn't say she has weak psyche. But either way, her heart is stronger than regular humans at chapter 1 given the fact she's being a hero, and the same humans who aided in this feat have no reason to have better control on their psyche energy.
If she can't fully utilize her power than, what shows during Tokyo arc or this arc that she can?
Click to expand...
Remember the whole point of the fight with Stardust was that Teru was so weak she did not even know what her Heart Power was at the time (with lady black effectively calling Teru a weak bum after the fight was over, granted she’s harsh). Along with the fact Teru only faced low scale threats in her first year as Shy. (Edit: also the Shy origin chapters of 151 and 152 showcase how mentally cooked she was after Shine’s death barely being able to muster a transformation at the last second, and lost that progress when she failed to save Iko’s rollercoaster in chapter 1. Being unable to transform for a month.)
Unlocking her heart power then is a step towards growth, but a few chapters later she even had to work on how to even harness her fire powers. Using calligraphy as the mental framework to be able to even use them properly. We also see her fighting at a higher level than that in chapter 25 where she beats down an empowered Tzveta who needed more empowerment to match her again. So the clear answer is by the Tokyo arc she has gotten stronger or at worst she is on average around the same and can vary up to that much higher level now as I said in my varies section. And they don’t necessarily need control since Unilord is doing all the energy manipulation for them and using them as batteries.

Arkenis said:
If this is true, why does anyone scale? They're all being empowered. Everyone around the world who's contributing would be empowered by helping out here because they want a future.

Also this just doesn't come off as something demonstrative of power. Your argument is that everyone doesn't scale because everyone doesn't have a strong heart, but some do. But what I want to know or what should be added is what shows Shy and the others now have the needed level to be rated that high.
Click to expand...
Cause in the first line of Utsuro’s justification for being on this level. I talked about how Ai and Iko (as shadow girl) fought on a comparable level to each other inside of Teru’s heart. With there not being any evidence their stats would be different inside that place and it would probably come down to their psychic energy anyway. Along with it being Iko and Ai’s all out attempt to save their best friend during chapter 163 and 164. With it being difficult to believe her emotions or psychic energy would be higher for the stardust concert than her friend. So essentially Utsuro > Shadow Girl and Ai. The rest of that is more akin to supporting justification for why it can narratively make sense as well. Utsuro’s kinda the main link. With scar transformations independently scaling to that degree since the civilians didn’t strain and gas out pumping out High 6-C energy.

If you disagree with all that though, I just wanna ask a few things.

  • Would you compromise with a possibly rating either for Utsuro or Scar forms? Or is Tier 6 in SHY for now untenable besides Unilord herself?
  • Do you think Scar Transformation Shy, Mian Long and Lady Black are at this level then? (cause at least out of Neverland I don’t even think anyone downscales off them besides maybe Neverland Stigma given Quabala’s all out swings can’t even cut through Teru’s forearms)
  • Any problems with Teru’s new updated sandbox (besides High 6-C and Low 6-B ratings) or is it all good on that front?
 
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Jackof_noTrades068 said:
And they don’t necessarily need control since Unilord is doing all the energy manipulation for them and using them as batteries.
Click to expand...
If this is how you think, then I don't see how they scale. I think what Stigma and Unilord say has merit, human body is too small for the heart's immeasurable power, so the bracelets, the rings, and like Unilord, converts their emotions into tangible energy. Meaning what we see is what we get, not the other way around.

Jackof_noTrades068 said:
  • Would you compromise with a possibly rating either for Utsuro or Scar forms? Or is Tier 6 in SHY for now untenable besides Unilord herself?
Click to expand...
Untenable besides Unilord and whoever scales. I think something easier to scale is the GPE of the ship and scale whoever scales to Unilord to that since its the regular amount of power she can handle and its directly shown to have physical effect on her when exerted.

Jackof_noTrades068 said:
  • Do you think Scar Transformation Shy, Mian Long and Lady Black are at this level then? (cause at least out of Neverland I don’t even think anyone downscales off them besides maybe Neverland Stigma given Quabala’s all out swings can’t even cut through Teru’s forearms)
Click to expand...
Says its closer to the nature of the heart but I genuinely don't think the individual scaling translates to this without the energy itself being attainable in their regular forms. And I'd say this level of empowerment is the highest in the series no?

Jackof_noTrades068 said:
So essentially in SHY, Volume 17, chapters 141 and 142. Unilord and the heroes across the world rallied 115247 civilians across the world to wish for the global rainclouds to be cleared out. This emotional energy was funneled into Unilord and fired a beam which parted clouds.
Click to expand...
This still don't work.
 
Arkenis said:
If this is how you think, then I don't see how they scale. I think what Stigma and Unilord say has merit, human body is too small for the heart's immeasurable power, so the bracelets, the rings, and like Unilord, converts their emotions into tangible energy. Meaning what we see is what we get, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
I sorta do not understand your perspective, since I am arguing that the heart does have an immense amount of power. Unilord just harnesses it at a larger scale compared to a single pair of bracelets and thus can peak much higher. Rather than doing anything uniquely special. That any of those civilians (lets just say Iko) could tap into that kind of power using Shadow's powers that lets her become Shadow Girl where a scaling chain can spawn out of if at her peak (Kinda like how there are a couple Western comic profiles can achieve 2-C or whatever rating but only at their peaks since their power can vary for one reason or another). Plus That one heart is still a speck compared to that Multi-Continental feat achieved. With the human body being too small leaning into the whole thing of Scar Transformations recoiling on the user cause they're making their heart leak to bring out more power.
Arkenis said:
Untenable besides Unilord and whoever scales. I think something easier to scale is the GPE of the ship and scale whoever scales to Unilord to that since its the regular amount of power she can handle and its directly shown to have physical effect on her when exerted.
Click to expand...
Understandable, I'll take you down as a disagree on the High 6-C stuff and possibly keep anything Unilord related in the back pocket as the series gets more english translations. Any Unilord GPE stuff would come in a future revision. If mods side with you the Tokyo Recapture era and beyond high tiers will stay between Low 7-C and 7-C. As I doubt we will convince each other directly.
Arkenis said:
Says its closer to the nature of the heart but I genuinely don't think the individual scaling translates to this without the energy itself being attainable in their regular forms. And I'd say this level of empowerment is the highest in the series no?
Click to expand...
It is the highest level a character can empower themselves to in the series yeah given it supposedly even killed Shine from the backlash and she's much stronger than normal heroes (Given how she preforms against a mid tier like Spirits). I'd say Scar Transformations are supposed to go beyond what is normally attainable as given in Nirvana's explanation in those scans I put down for it. Nirvana also saying Scar Transformations manifest closer to the nature of a person's "Wish". With Wishes being the terminology used for both the global rainfall incited by Stigma (Vol. 15, Chapter 123) or the global dispersal incited by the heroes. Also even by Kehehe when she said never to "wish" in the presence of Stigma (Vol. 16; Chapter 132) just to show it is consistently used and not one off instances.

Arkenis said:
This still don't work.
Click to expand...
Changed it to a catbox link, but on mobile in the imgur app i could just reload and get the scans, that's why it took me a while to correct it, was responding from my phone.

Emirp sumitpo said:
Everything looks fine to me.
Click to expand...
Greetings, could you reevaluate the revision now that counter arguments to a portion of it have been made?
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
I sorta do not understand your perspective, since I am arguing that the heart does have an immense amount of power. Unilord just harnesses it at a larger scale compared to a single pair of bracelets and thus can peak much higher. Rather than doing anything uniquely special. That any of those civilians (lets just say Iko) could tap into that kind of power using Shadow's powers that lets her become Shadow Girl where a scaling chain can spawn out of if at her peak (Kinda like how there are a couple Western comic profiles can achieve 2-C or whatever rating but only at their peaks since their power can vary for one reason or another). Plus That one heart is still a speck compared to that Multi-Continental feat achieved. With the human body being too small leaning into the whole thing of Scar Transformations recoiling on the user cause they're making their heart leak to bring out more power.
Click to expand...
The hearts power is immeasurable so what we see them never using the power to its full extent. Assume they could, that'd be what the H6C is. I'm saying that they can't use that immeasurable power to the full extent ever, all they can do is channel it through rings, bracelets or through Unilord's ship and whatever they output is what we scale.

Jackof_noTrades068 said:
It is the highest level a character can empower themselves to in the series yeah given it supposedly even killed Shine from the backlash and she's much stronger than normal heroes (Given how she preforms against a mid tier like Spirits). I'd say Scar Transformations are supposed to go beyond what is normally attainable as given in Nirvana's explanation in those scans I put down for it. Nirvana also saying Scar Transformations manifest closer to the nature of a person's "Wish". With Wishes being the terminology used for both the global rainfall incited by Stigma (Vol. 15, Chapter 123) or the global dispersal incited by the heroes. Also even by Kehehe when she said never to "wish" in the presence of Stigma (Vol. 16; Chapter 132) just to show it is consistently used and not one off instances.
Click to expand...
Yeah I kinda figured that since it's closer to the nature, that could warrant the scaling for Scars but I still think the base forms should showcase access to that full usage of the heart if that makes sense.

I'd say my issue is this.

Normally they can barely get their hearts power out through bracelets, rings, unilord -> Scars are a step above this, where they release far more due to it manifesting closer to the nature -> This event though is a special moment where the entire world is empowered by them wanting to save the world and thus what Unilord is getting from them is unique due to the empowerment happening. I'd say likely could be given to scar transformations though since it's hard to really show a difference from the true nature vs this empowered event they're all part of.
 
Arkenis said:
The hearts power is immeasurable so what we see them never using the power to its full extent. Assume they could, that'd be what the H6C is. I'm saying that they can't use that immeasurable power to the full extent ever, all they can do is channel it through rings, bracelets or through Unilord's ship and whatever they output is what we scale.
Click to expand...
Ok now I can see more of where you're coming from on this, I would say how the Cloud Dispersal is output but then we'd be talking in circles and we already get each of our respective arguments (Since High 6-C does not even need to be the cap of said "immeasurable power" as no one definitively said 'yeah that's the most people can physically do' although that would mainly matter if we get a higher feat later in the series)
Arkenis said:
Yeah I kinda figured that since it's closer to the nature, that could warrant the scaling for Scars but I still think the base forms should showcase access to that full usage of the heart if that makes sense.

I'd say my issue is this.

Normally they can barely get their hearts power out through bracelets, rings, unilord -> Scars are a step above this, where they release far more due to it manifesting closer to the nature -> This event though is a special moment where the entire world is empowered by them wanting to save the world and thus what Unilord is getting from them is unique due to the empowerment happening. I'd say likely could be given to scar transformations though since it's hard to really show a difference from the true nature vs this empowered event they're all part of.
Click to expand...
I'd be willing to concede a likely for the scar transformations since them being that much of a power jump hasn't been contradicted in any way at all. So for example Scar Teru would be 7-C, likely High 6-C. I'd say the concern about how at a baseline about how they need bracelets, rings and unilord doesn't apply since Mian Long brute forced a transformation (Chapter 171) even though one of his bracelets were shattered (Well there's also Nirvana who broke the container of his heart so to speak but he's an anomaly). So the concern about hearts being inherently limited by the bracelets shouldn't be applied for them imo. Although Personally I'm still on the side of High 6-C being a consistent bare minimum without a likely, since theres no real statement that multiple hearts being empowered together is an exponential increase over what they each additively do alone (and again using the Hearts Energy has strained characters before, yet the civilians are fine while our heroes received recoil from scar forms). Since Scars are linked to the heart's true nature on top of the fact that the trio are wishing akin to how the people of the world did unless we wanna claim that those civilians potentially have stronger emotions than (lets use Piltz for this example) Piltz in a moment where she thought Teru was going to die and how it'd be a repeat of the death of her father if she didn't do anything to grow back in chapter 134. Which I don't subscribe to but I suppose can understand.
 
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