Satoru Gojo vs Klein Moretti [12-12-0]

[PhoenixWrong57]

How long is Gojo’s TP? Cuz if it’s big enough then he can just leave Marionette range in an instant and Klein will have to redo

Yeah, I didn't address this yet just to make sure we were in the same page about the initial control happening. The Marionette profiles don't exist so Klein is probably vulnerable to Gojo TPing out... and the profiles for Klein's marionettes don't exist so he can't use them, either.

But he needs to clasp his hands to do it

This is very important. Doing gestures under Klein's thought slowing takes a while, especially a movement as complex as bringing your arms together and entwining your fingers. Klein can probably interrupt this with Ninth Law when Gojo is about to succeed.

The corners of the mob boss's eyes had tears welling up as he tried hard to release his fingers to drop the cigar to attract the attention of his subordinates, but he discovered in despair that his line of thought was becoming highly impeded and stiff. Even a simple action needed more than a minute to complete, and his fingers were even resisting his will!

Also, can I take your vote as for Klein?

Now you can. I was hesitant to declare my vote one way or another since Gojo also has a TP with unknown details to me. Voting in favor of Klein equipped with Ninth Law and Fate Siphon doing the following sequence of actions:

Immediately TPing far away to a random location within Tokyo
Doing the self-summoning ritual to head into the fight as an Astral Projection
Use a combination of equalized speed, teleportation spam and precognition to maintain the Marionettism range
Once initial control is achieved, deepen the control for the while Gojo takes for his teleportation gesture (aka intensify the thought slowing), preventing him from immediately breaking free from that state once he has to activate Ninth Law.
Disable Limitless with Ninth Law and finish the marionettism

This whole thing relies on Klein being able to use IM2 Astral Projection, btw. If Klein needed to dodge Gojo's area of effect attacks, it would be almost impossible to achieve initial control.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Is reaction speed equalized or just the combat speed?

Both have relativistic reaction speed

 

[SuperNova55555]

The Marionette profiles don't exist so Klein is probably vulnerable to Gojo TPing out... and the profiles for Klein's marionettes don't exist so he can't use them, either.

Patience, patience. They’ll come eventually.

Now you can.

Noted

 

[Foriaa]

Put me down for Klein

 

[Cipher72]

This is very important. Doing gestures under Klein's thought slowing takes a while, especially a movement as complex as bringing your arms together and entwining your fingers. Klein can probably interrupt this with Ninth Law when Gojo is about to succeed.

One thing I would like to note is that Gojo's TP also requires a certain specific condition most likely that there shouldn't be a barrier in his way because unlike standard TP it compresses the coordinates also another thing is the long distance TP in JJK 0 required a magic circle as for the Prison realm one I have no clue.

 

[Hecky2222]

One thing I would like to note is that Gojo's TP also requires a certain specific condition most likely that there shouldn't be a barrier in his way because unlike standard TP it compresses the coordinates also another thing is the long distance TP in JJK 0 required a magic circle as for the Prison realm one I have no clue.

yeah agree with this

Gojo cant just TP out anyone at mid fight. He would do same to Sukuna if he could

 

[SuperNova55555]

He has an hour of prep tho, so I doubt it matters allat

 

[Hecky2222]

I am routing for Klein ngl

 

[Cipher72]

yeah agree with this

Gojo cant just TP out anyone at mid fight. He would do same to Sukuna if he could

Well he can TP out of the fight it's just very limited in terms of scope/range, For the Sukuna fight

• He suffered from CT burnout for most of the fight
• He had no reason to TP out (He was winning for most of the fight)
• As for why he didn't TP in the fight against Sukuna is most likely because GeGe didn't want him to or in other words PIS.

I just wanted it to be noted that he can't rlly use his TP like normal TP it comes with some restrictions.
Edit;

I am routing for Klein ngl

Ok Router.

 

[Exoko]

Put me down for Klein as well, if it’s 5 seconds for the initial control it’d be pretty easy to fulfill, he has Slow that works for 2-3 seconds and he rest can fulfill before this (Paper Figurine Substitutions for if Gojo tries close combat w Blue, since Klein doesn’t have to be kept static to start the Spirit Body Thread control like the other dude said).


I don’t see Gojo fulfilling the requirements for the tp after that.

 

[Hecky2222]

Well he can TP out of the fight it's just very limited in terms of scope/range, For the Sukuna fight

• He suffered from CT burnout for most of the fight
• He had no reason to TP out (He was winning for most of the fight)
• As for why he didn't TP in the fight against Sukuna is most likely because GeGe didn't want him to or in other words PIS.

I just wanted it to be noted that he can't rlly use his TP like normal TP it comes with some restrictions.

Yeah I am agreeing with you his TP doesnt work like other TPs so not efficient

I dont want to argue Fraudkuna vs Fraudjo in big 2026

 

[SuperNova55555]

Gojo knows about Kleins ability but he has no way to sense it. So Klein could honestly just use Illusions or other stuns and stuff and catch Gojo off-guard. Once 5 seconds pass, it’s practically GGs I believe

@Notlaziz @Exoko noted

 

[Cipher72]

Gojo knows about Kleins ability but he has no way to sense it. So Klein could honestly just use Illusions or other stuns and stuff and catch Gojo off-guard. Once 5 seconds pass, it’s practically GGs I believe

Six eyes ? Or does Klein's abilities bypass that ?

 

[SuperNova55555]

Six eyes ? Or does Klein's abilities bypass that ?

Spirituality (IM2) is more fundamental than CE so honestly idk how this would work

 

[SuperNova55555]

Ohh you were talking about Spirit Body Threads. Nah only Klein can see em. Even people with Spirit Vision are incapable of seeing them

 

[Hecky2222]

Next time we should do Loli Yog(If East manages to debunk her from Tier 0 to 1A bro really collecting team for it at cord LOL) vs Klein Lord of Mysteries

 

[SuperNova55555]

Next time we should do Loli Yog(If East manages to debunk her from Tier 0 to 1A bro really collecting team for it at cord LOL) vs Klein Lord of Mysteries

hoyo downfall, I love to see it

I say this, as I wanked the verse back to Low 1-A

 

[Hecky2222]

hoyo downfall, I love to see it

I say this, as I wanked the verse back to Low 1-A

you might help him out at cord

 

[SuperNova55555]

you might help him out at cord

Fortunately I haven’t played GGZ

 

[Hecky2222]

Fortunately I haven’t played GGZ

You dont even need to play GGZ to nuke one scan which is just fallacies bro

 

[SuperNova55555]

You dont even need to play GGZ to nuke one scan which is just fallacies bro

I mean sure I can help. Or better yet, just dial up Toxic and annihilate the verse in milliseconds. He’d be glad to nuke the lolis

 

[Hecky2222]

I mean sure I can help. Or better yet, just dial up Toxic and annihilate the verse in milliseconds. He’d be glad to nuke the lolis

sure if you want you can add me on cord(On my bio you can find nick) so that i will add you to server where they are preparing arg for next CRT

 

[SuperNova55555]

sure if you want you can add me on cord(On my bio you can find nick) so that i will add you to server where they are preparing arg for next CRT

Issue is that I am IP banned on discord in most places I have reasonable access to the internet, so I can’t contribute until like… a few days from now

 

[Tatsumi504]

Ohh you were talking about Spirit Body Threads. Nah only Klein can see em. Even people with Spirit Vision are incapable of seeing them

That'll just be a layer of invisibility if we equalizing stuff. 6 eyes can see Sukuna's dismantles which have 2 layers of invisibility

 

[Hecky2222]

Issue is that I am IP banned on discord in most places I have reasonable access to the internet, so I can’t contribute until like… a few days from now

sure we wont pull thread untill next week so we might wait for you

 

[SuperNova55555]

That'll just be a layer of invisibility if we equalizing stuff. 6 eyes can see Sukuna's dismantles which have 2 layers of invisibility

I see. That complicates things a bit. He would prolly spam tp the moment he sees Klein interact.

Hmm. Can he see past Magician Illusions?

Also utilizing faceless abilities could be very beneficial but I guess this would depend on whether or not Shibuya is inhabited or not and that ain’t specified in the rules so ehh

sure we wont pull thread untill next week so we might wait for you

I don’t think there’s a big need for that. I can always just directly help in the VSBW thread as well if needed.

 

[Cipher72]

Next time we should do Loli Yog(If East manages to debunk her from Tier 0 to 1A bro really collecting team for it at cord LOL) vs Klein Lord of Mysteries

Shhh

 

[Cipher72]

That'll just be a layer of invisibility if we equalizing stuff. 6 eyes can see Sukuna's dismantles which have 2 layers of invisibility

This ^

 

[Cipher72]

Hmm. Can he see past Magician Illusions?

Also utilizing faceless abilities could be very beneficial but I guess this would depend on whether or not Shibuya is inhabited or not and that ain’t specified in the rules so ehh

What's that ? Can you explain what it does ?

 

[SuperNova55555]

What's that ? Can you explain what it does ?

Just normal illusions, like tricking Gojo into thinking Klein is somewhere he’s not. And can create fake bodies with Paper Figurines and stuff. It can work almost like a shadow clone jutsu.

Faceless just allows Klein to change his appearance at will. So he can just hide as other people.

 

[Cipher72]

Just normal illusions, like tricking Gojo into thinking Klein is somewhere he’s not. And can create fake bodies with Paper Figurines and stuff. It can work also like a shadow clone jutsu.

Faceless just allows Klein to change his appearance at will. So he can just hide as other people.

Idt those will work considering Gojo can see someone's soul & CE but some illusions might work depending on what they are.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I see. That complicates things a bit. He would prolly spam tp the moment he sees Klein interact.

Not just that, if they have knowledge of each other, he'd know external stimuli can break the initial stage of control. While on that, the time taken to achieve initial control depends on the strength of the targets spirit body right? So the 5 seconds may not really apply here

Hmm. Can he see past Magician Illusions?

Can't really say

Also utilizing faceless abilities could be very beneficial but I guess this would depend on whether or not Shibuya is inhabited or not and that ain’t specified in the rules so ehh

Depends on if it's Shibuya before or after Sukuna had fun with Mahoraga.

I can't really speak on the fight itself as Klein hasn't been in this kind of situation before so saying he'd immediately to away and summon his astral projection is iffy. He normally has days to prepare before going into a fight with his Astral body, the only caveat being the desire apostle iirc but that was less of a fight as it was a race against time to finish off and extract info from a dying enemy.

Klein Moretti is more likely to just run away, Gehrman Sparrow will engage him off the bat without relying on summoning his astral projection but will immediately dip if it looks like he can't win.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Not just that, if they have knowledge of each other, he'd know external stimuli can break the initial stage of control.

TPing will always be faster anyways so I doesnt rlly matter here

While on that, the time taken to achieve initial control depends on the strength of the targets spirit body right? So the 5 seconds may not really apply here

Nah:

Yes, if the enemy's Spirit Body isn't strong enough, a Marionettist will have the strength remaining to even draw a gun or use a mystical item to act in concert with himself.

It just signifies how much freedom of movement Klein has. The time only changes with Godhood but Gojo has none of that

 

[PhoenixWrong57]

That'll just be a layer of invisibility if we equalizing stuff. 6 eyes can see Sukuna's dismantles which have 2 layers of invisibility

I don't know about this because some High Sequence Beyonders (at least not a sequence 4 Demoness of Despair) can't see Spirit Body Threads either, this starts to touch on the 1-A power source thing...

For some other mundane same level stuff that may provide 2 extra layers of invisibility: Sequence 5 Wraiths have invisibility that cannot be seen by Spirit Vision that isn't strong enough and people with strong enough spirit vision cannot see Spirit Body Threads. The IM2 specialist pathway (Hermit) at sequence 5 has special eyes that see through hidden existences that cannot be seen by people with strong enough Spirit Vision to see through Seq 5 Wraiths (The shadow world/curtains and the gazes from behind it, chapter 565) and they cannot see Spirit Body Threads.

 

[Cipher72]

I don't know about this because some High Sequence Beyonders (at least not a sequence 4 Demoness of Despair) can't see Spirit Body Threads either, this starts to touch on the 1-A power source thing...

For some other mundane same level stuff that may provide 2 extra layers of invisibility: Sequence 5 Wraiths have invisibility that cannot be seen by Spirit Vision that isn't strong enough and people with strong enough spirit vision cannot see Spirit Body Threads. The IM2 specialist pathway (Hermit) at sequence 5 has special eyes that see through hidden existences that cannot be seen by people with strong enough Spirit Vision to see through Seq 5 Wraiths (The shadow world/curtains and the gazes from behind it, chapter 565) and they cannot see Spirit Body Threads.

So what exactly is this Spirit Body threads ?

 

[Tatsumi504]

I don't know about this because some High Sequence Beyonders (at least not a sequence 4 Demoness of Despair) can't see Spirit Body Threads either, this starts to touch on the 1-A power source thing...

I doubt it cause seq 5 don't have godhood either and Spirit body threads ain't something stemming from godhood

For some other mundane same level stuff that may provide 2 extra layers of invisibility: Sequence 5 Wraiths have invisibility that cannot be seen by Spirit Vision that isn't strong enough and people with strong enough spirit vision cannot see Spirit Body Threads. The IM2 specialist pathway (Hermit) at sequence 5 has special eyes that see through hidden existences that cannot be seen by people with strong enough Spirit Vision to see through Seq 5 Wraiths (The shadow world/curtains and the gazes from behind it, chapter 565) and they cannot see Spirit Body Threads.

So a special type of esp is required as it seems which draws me back to my initial worry..."can spirit body threads be equalized crossverse?"

 

[Metalballrun]

Spirit Body Threads aren't really explained in-depth. It has some eldritch implications but not worth talking about here (also because the author is a fraud).
It is essentially some illusory thing that extends infinitely, presumably connecting souls to the Spirit World or some such (not confirmed but it often seems like it is). It is not a part of the soul itself but it's a cool way for the protagonist to turn people into puppets and combine their powers with his.

If Gojo can activate any ability that can move his body during the process of marionettization (which slows both his movements and thoughts that he basically will freeze), he can escape it. Like unleashing a hollow purple from his ass.

 

[PhoenixWrong57]

If Gojo can activate any ability that can move his body during the process of marionettization (which slows both his movements and thoughts that he basically will freeze), he can escape it. Like unleashing a hollow purple from his ass.

Just a reminder that casting is severely affected under the marionettization and Klein can easily activate Fate Siphon to kill himself if Gojo tries escaping this way

 

[SuperNova55555]

1. Uses Astral Projection
2. Gets near Gojo
3. Yells “Leodero”
4. Immediately returns to Sefirah
5. Profit

Pretty sure he doesn’t know about LoS atp tho

 

[PhoenixWrong57]

It just signifies how much freedom of movement Klein has. The time only changes with Godhood but Gojo has none of that

I forgot to correct you on this, but Spirit Body potency does affect time elapsed to initial control and full marionettization, the 5 seconds figure assumes the target has a Spirit Body as powerful as the marionettist. This is a quote from chapter 683 back when Klein had just advanced and needed 20 seconds to control a Beyonder with same Spirit Body potency

As the target was only an ordinary person whose Spirit Body was far inferior to that of a Beyonder, Klein took less than twenty seconds to achieve initial control over him. Seven seconds! All it took was seven seconds!

And I didn't harp on the 5 seconds figure before either because then the conversation becomes an argument on how powerful are the souls of Beyonders and whether Gojo's soul can be considered on the same level, weaker, stronger, etc. And once that's sorted out we jump on the argument of how many seconds does Bribe - Weaken shave off Gojo's initial control timer. Easier to just use the 5 seconds as reference. A quote from the Slaughterer Kircheis fight showing this (he is still fresh off advancement and needs 20 seconds):

With the strength of a Sequence 5's Spirit Body, it wasn't easy to obtain initial control over Slaughterer to begin with. However, with the cup of beer Bribe, it reduced Kircheis's defense and resistance. And after that, this Desire Apostle suffered a Psychic Piercing and was thoroughly purified once by Light of Purification. As a result, he had become rather weak! Therefore, even though Klein was using his other powers, he still took fifteen seconds to obtain initial control over Kircheis.