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RandomGuy2345

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Because why not?

John Cena (WWE) vs Guts (Beserk)

9-B John Cena and Beginning of the Golden Age Guts will be used.

Speed will be equalized.

Fight takes place in Solitary Island (if this isn't a good location then tell me so I can change it)

The Never-Seen 17:

Hundred-Man Slayer: 3 (@LegendariumOfLies, @Foriaa, @azontr)

Inconclusive:

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So Guts hard upscales from his 9-B value. He was doing that shit when he was injured and holding back.
Lifting Strength isn't really a factor, but Guts does have a slight advantage.
Speed is equalized so it doesn't matter.
Guts is more acrobatic, has info analysis, and enhanced senses, so I see him taking this with Mid Diff
 
Cena scales to 6,656,866.26104 Joules, so a <7.1548714251x physical advantage for Cena, so that's still a pretty big gap, regardless of how much Guts upscales from his value.
Sure,but Guts isn't unfamiliar with fighting against stronger opponents. Nosferatu Zodd was quite literally that, and Wylad later. He also has better acrobatics and analytical prediciton, so he can see Cena's move coming from miles away. Furthermore, he is just more skilled. Literally, went toe to toe with Zodd and outplayed him - a guy who has had hundreds of years of experience on the battlefield. Even Cena grappling isn't really a win-con because Guts is stronger (Class 1 Vs Superhuman)
 
Voting Guts via skill and better melee range. can also use his terrain far better than Cena can, and if it gets really bad for him, his probability manip can bail him out.
 
He also has better acrobatics and analytical prediciton, so he can see Cena's move coming from miles away.
How good are his acrobatics and analytical prediction?

Furthermore, he is just more skilled. Literally, went toe to toe with Zodd and outplayed him - a guy who has had hundreds of years of experience on the battlefield.
The experience argument isn't the best way to go about determining who's more skilled.

Even Cena grappling isn't really a win-con because Guts is stronger (Class 1 Vs Superhuman)
The LS difference is so marginal that it hardly even matters.

John Cena is Superhuman because while he is inferior, he's shown that he's not too far off from wrestlers who range anywhere from Class 5 to Class 25 in terms of LS, the type of strength Guts does not have.

At best, Guts has a very slight LS advantage. Also, Cena has made people who are stronger than him in terms of LS tap out.

Btw, made a mistake Guts scale to 3.85 Megajoules. His profile is shit and out of date.
Oh wow lol yeah idk why that's not added to his profile.
 
Also, Cena has made people who are stronger than him in terms of LS tap out.
E.G. Mark Henry, who is class 25.
Also, Cena kicked out of the Worlds Strongest Slam, something nobody has done.
Furthermore, he is just more skilled.
I wouldn't say that. Skill is sloppy when it comes to WWE.
Well, for starters, Austin Theory was a bodybuilding champion at the age of 17. Here's an image of him in that bodybuilding competition. Keep in mind he was only 17 at the time. Now that he’s a full time professional wrestler at the age of 25, there’s no doubt in my mind that Theory is in full peak condition, making him physically superior to a lot of the wrestlers in the roster, as well as one of the most athletically gifted.

Theory was stated by commentary to have been blessed with all of the tools an athlete can hope for, and is a true prodigy in the world of professional wrestling. This already shows the massive amounts of potential/skill Theory has.

To start things off with a bang, there’s this new wrestler called Axiom. In this promo, he’s billed as someone who can quickly analyze and react to anything thanks to his gift for mathematics, which he uses to defeat wrestlers in the ring. Yes, this guy uses mathematical formulas while in the middle of a match to defeat his opponents. Keep in mind, this guy struggles with NXT wrestlers, while Austin Theory has fought on par with and defeated some of the best wrestlers in the business, so Theory is likely far superior to the likes of Axiom, which is already extremely impressive in itself.

Theory on his debut NXT match was able to fight on par with Roderick Strong. Strong has over 20 years of experience as a wrestler, and was nicknamed The Master of the Backbreaker, due to his ability to constantly target the opponent's back in wrestling matchups.

Theory was also able to hold his own against the likes of Aleister Black, who was trained in Pencak Silat and Kickboxing from the ages 9 to 15.

Austin Theory defeated Ricochet in only a couple of minutes. Ricochet is notorious for using his absurd levels of acrobatics and quick reflexes to blitz, overwhelm, and defeat his opponents.

Austin Theory has also fought on par with the likes of Dexter Lumis, who has shown to have a "Sixth Sense" that allows him to fight while blindfolded.

Theory was able to give Bobby Lashley a good run for his money. Bobby Lashley has a very good mixed martial arts background, having a record of 15-2, defeating the likes of Joshua Franklin in 41 seconds (TKO), and Mike Cook in 24 seconds (Submission). He even defeated James Thompson, who at that point, had over a decade of experience in mixed martial arts. Lashley defeated him in 54 seconds via TKO.

Theory was also able to give AJ Styles a good run for his money. AJ Styles is the same guy who was able to beat John Cena clean. Cena is the same guy who looked like was about to beat Brock Lesnar before getting interrupted. Brock Lesnar was an Amateur Wrestler, and a Mixed Martial Artist career, which he uses, along with his Amateur Wrestling background to decimate his opponents. Lesnar had a record of 106-5 in his 4 years of college wrestling at the NCAA, as well as winning the NCAA Division I Heavyweight Championship. Lesnar also ended the iconic 21-year Wrestlemania win streak of The Undertaker.

After a hard-hitting, physical match, Theory was able to defeat Dolph Ziggler clean. Ziggler has a great amateur wrestling background. Ziggler set the record for most pins in St. Edward High School with 82 pins. When he was a wrestler at Kent State University, he at one point, held the record for most career wins in the team's history, earning 121 wins (the record was soon broken, but this still says a lot for how skilled Theory is).

To add on, a rookie Dolph Ziggler was able to fight on par with John Morrison, albeit losing in the end. Morrison was described by WWE as having "lightning-fast offense", "high-risk aerial expertise", and "incredible agility". He is known to utilize a split-legged corkscrew moonsault, dubbed Starship Pain, as a finishing maneuver. During his singles run as Johnny Nitro, he used a standing shooting star press as his finisher. Morrison soon began using a corkscrew neckbreaker dubbed Moonlight Drive, in reference to the song of the same name written by Jim Morrison. He also prominently used a superkick as a finisher in 2008 during a feud with D-Generation X, as a way to mock Shawn Michaels's Sweet Chin Music maneuver. Morrison is a practitioner of parkour and often incorporates it into his wrestling style, giving him the nickname "The Prince of Parkour". He also has a background in amateur wrestling, breakdancing, gymnastics, and martial arts. Regarding his unique wrestling style, Morrison stated in a 2021 interview with Sports Illustrated (despite this being an interview, whatever Morrison says here should be taken 100% legitimately, as he applies all of these forms of martial arts in his fights).

"My movement background is different from everyone on the roster. I was an amateur collegiate wrestler at UC Davis. I also did gymnastics at UC Davis. I've studied kung fu, boxing, capoeira, stunt fighting, parkour—I am a master at all those disciplines. Applying those movement patterns is what I do in the ring."

Theory was able to trade blows with the likes of Drew McIntyre. McIntyre is the same guy who had wars with the likes of Sheamus. In fact, while participating in a grueling ‘Good Old Fashioned Donnybrook’ match, McIntyre was even capable of kicking out of The Brogue Kick. The Brogue Kick is one of the most dangerous moves in all of Pro Wrestling. A referee suffered chronic neck pain when hit with the move. The Brogue Kick was stated to cause extreme nerve damage and tingling in the extremities of the victim. A move this dangerous was something that Drew McIntyre kicked out of, and Theory traded blows with McIntyre.

Theory also has Accelerated Development. He Went from having severe skill disadvantages against Johnny Gargano to the point where he was called "predictable" to slowly finding ways to adapt throughout the fight, even finding ways to quickly counter moves that originally caught him off guard. The commentary team states that Theory was "learning on the go" throughout the match. Johnny Gargano's fighting style revolves around combining British Chain Wrestling, Lucha Libre, and Puroresu into a fighting style he likes to call "Lucharesu".

Theory was able to defeat Finn Balor for the United States Championship, becoming the youngest US Champion in WWE history. Now here's where I go talking about Finn Balor's skill.

Finn Balor defeated Pete Dunne, who's fighting style revolves around brawling, stiff strikes, submission grappling, and bending of his opponents fingers (Small Joint Manipulation), which will leave someone extremely handicapped in a fight, especially since wrestling is all about striking, grappling and holding, and you can't do that without functioning fingers. Pete Dunne was also the same guy who was able to solo the entire Undisputed Era by himself, and the group has been regarded as one of the most dominant factions in WWE history. The group ended up winning all of the gold in NXT at one point.

Balor was also able to give Roman Reigns a good run for his money. Roman Reigns became the 2nd man to defeat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

The Undertaker is considered the greatest pure striker in Sports Entertainment history. Even the likes of Kurt Angle was scared to take a punch from him.

If ya don't know Kurt Angle, he's notorious for winning a gold medal with a broken neck, who is this skilled, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler ever.
 
Guts having a weapon puts Cena at a significant disadvantage. He has no experience fighting against sword users, especially swords as long as Guts', so even disregarding pure skill, it's already not looking good for him.

Cena also doesn't even have an advantage of pure skill. Having seen WWE's skill chain and recognized that it is impressive, many of the feats in it cannot be attributed simply to Cena, as while he can fight guys on certain levels, a lot of the stuff like analytical prediction and accelerated development aren't things he has. A lot of the stuff is also attributed to experience, and Guts can impress people who have hundreds of years of nigh-constant battle experience, and has been fighting in life or death situations since he started walking, basically.

Guts is also significantly more mobile, has actual analytical prediction, has no blind spots for Cena to exploit due to enhanced senses, and his significantly higher stamina means that simply by keeping Cena at bay with his sword's range, even with an AP advantage, Cena will be easy pickings once he gets tired. It hurts me to go against one of my goats like this, but Cena's chances of beating Guts are minimal.
 
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At best, Guts has a very slight LS advantage. Also, Cena has made people who are stronger than him in terms of LS tap out.
Also, just gonna say, if he can pin people who supposedly are higher than him in LS, then clearly they are not higher than him in LS.
 
Also, just gonna say, if he can pin people who supposedly are higher than him in LS, then clearly they are not higher than him in LS.
People like Daniel Bryan and Kurt Angle has made wrestlers who are stronger than them tap out, That's what they do. They're just really good wrestlers. It's more so of a skill thing as opposed to a LS thing.

They usually target a certain limb of the opponent or they just wear the opponent down as much as possible with holds and submissions until they finally tap out.

You can have all the strength in the world, but if you don't know how to use it in a combat setting (or the opponent you're facing is just more skilled than you), then safe to say you're cooked.
 
I can likely cook up a nice lil skill thread for the GOAT John Cena (idk why that old ass Theory skill thread is still used to this day), but it's probably going to take a good while to do so.
 
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