Universal Z Frieza(anime and manga)

[Zanesucksatlife]

Let's all try to keep things civil, okay?

Right mb

 

[AyOgUyS]

Disagree, the statments feel more like "he is a threat because he can conquer the universe" rather than "he can one tap the universe"

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Alright. so OP is taking "Destroy the Universe" entirely too literally as it's in relation to Freeza becoming the strongest in the universe and no one being able to stop him from destroying all planets with life.

How do we know this?

well, let's check the Kazenshuu strength checker:

Chapter: 261 (DBZ 67), P6.3-4, P7.1
Kaio: “G-Goku, th-this time you’ve got a bad opponent…the worst, I should say…He’s not an opponent you can remotely handle…You ab-absolutely mustn’t lay a hand on him…[ ] I’m not just telling you this for your own sake! I’m telling you for the sake of all those on Earth, Namek, and the other planets…! If you come at him with some half-assed attack and make him angry, something dreadful will happen…! Him alone you have no choice but to leave be…!”
Chapter: 314 (DBZ 120), P13.4-6
Goku: “I-I didn’t want to use this Genki-Dama. It will probably have too much force and squash the entire planet…But if I don’t defeat Freeza now, the universe itself will be in trouble…I don’t know if I’ll be able to pull this off right, but I’ve got to do it…You planets close to Namek! Give me just a little bit of your genki…!”
Chapter: 285 (DBZ 91), P14.6
Context: talking to Nail
Freeza: “I’m the strongest in the universe! I’ll show you how terrifying I am!”



Chapter: 315 (DBZ 121), P2.2-5, P3.1-2
Kuririn: “It-it’s huge…And it’s getting even bigger…”
Piccolo: “Is it really that big?”
Gohan: “On Earth it was about this big [he holds out his hands]”
Kuririn: “Th-this time its diameter is about 50 meters…He shouldn’t be able to make a Genki-Dama that huge on this planet…Goku must have even gathered ki from the surrounding planets…”
Piccolo: “Freeza doesn’t seem to have noticed yet…So why doesn’t Goku attack with that ball right away?...”
Kuririn: “Goku’s definitely thinking that if he doesn’t gather more ki and make it even huger, it won’t be able to defeat Freeza…”
Chapter: 314 (DBZ 120), P13.4-6
Goku: “I-I didn’t want to use this Genki-Dama. It will probably have too much force and squash the entire planet…But if I don’t defeat Freeza now, the universe itself will be in trouble…I don’t know if I’ll be able to pull this off right, but I’ve got to do it…You planets close to Namek! Give me just a little bit of your genki…!”

Chapter: 315 (DBZ 121), P2.2-5, P3.1-2
Kuririn: “It-it’s huge…And it’s getting even bigger…”
Piccolo: “Is it really that big?”
Gohan: “On Earth it was about this big [he holds out his hands]”
Kuririn: “Th-this time its diameter is about 50 meters…He shouldn’t be able to make a Genki-Dama that huge on this planet…Goku must have even gathered ki from the surrounding planets…”
Piccolo: “Freeza doesn’t seem to have noticed yet…So why doesn’t Goku attack with that ball right away?...”
Kuririn: “Goku’s definitely thinking that if he doesn’t gather more ki and make it even huger, it won’t be able to defeat Freeza…”
Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P3.5
Context: as he lets Freeza power all the way up
Goku: “I really might not get this chance again…The chance to see the strongest bastard in the universe at full power…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy…However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”

On Cell, EXPLICTLY CONFIRMING he has the powers of Freeza and King Cold:
Chapter: 365 (DBZ 171), P2.1
Context: talking about Cell’s menace
Piccolo: “It’s not just the Earth…This could turn out terrible for all the planets in the universe…Don’t forget that he has the blood of Freeza and his father…”

The entire context shows when they mention Freeza being a threat to the universe, it's in a very specific planetary way.

 

[Mgebrat282]

You clearly don't know what's Hyperbole lmao, universal Frieza is the Hyperbole and + that was in the guidebooks and not the original manga. Now go provide a scan directly in said Manga for "This" if you can't then what I said debunks your whole argument
Speaking of I just read the manga and what you're going for isn't even there.


Proof that he was accepted as universal?

Cell was accepted in anime, and this blog is also about anime(Kai and Z), so why Frieza atleast in anime can't be universal with better statements? Also Frieza has a feat with Genkidama.
"That blog means nothing, those calculations don't mean a whole lot either. If all that "Evidence" you have in the blog is all you have then.. not enough so w this , I have debunked what you said"
Why does it mean nothing?

 

[Mgebrat282]

Cell has never been universal for the mainline series. Hell, him getting to Solar System Level was an absolute shit show.

Yeah, but was accepted in anime though. Also I don't kinda understand why getting him to solar system was hard? Btw why he can't be universal and higher, when in anime he has the same statements about solar system and don't has uni feats, statements only?

 

[Mgebrat282]

Disagree, the statments feel more like "he is a threat because he can conquer the universe" rather than "he can one tap the universe"

In Shonen Jump it was stated about the universe ITSELF, not only planets(translation in my blog was made by @PernidaParnkgjas who's a real translator).

 

[StarShooter80]

Yeah, but was accepted in anime though. Also I don't kinda understand why getting him to solar system was hard? Btw why he can't be universal and higher, when in anime he has the same statements about solar system and don't has uni feats, statements only?

There ARE feats, Toei Cell upscales from Toei SSJ Broly, who destroyed a quadrant of an infinite structure. Uni Cell for the toei anime is just far more full-proof than Z Frieza (counting both anime and manga)

 

[Mgebrat282]

Alright. so OP is taking "Destroy the Universe" entirely too literally as it's in relation to Freeza becoming the strongest in the universe and no one being able to stop him from destroying all planets with life.

How do we know this?

well, let's check the Kazenshuu strength checker:

Chapter: 261 (DBZ 67), P6.3-4, P7.1
Kaio: “G-Goku, th-this time you’ve got a bad opponent…the worst, I should say…He’s not an opponent you can remotely handle…You ab-absolutely mustn’t lay a hand on him…[ ] I’m not just telling you this for your own sake! I’m telling you for the sake of all those on Earth, Namek, and the other planets…! If you come at him with some half-assed attack and make him angry, something dreadful will happen…! Him alone you have no choice but to leave be…!”
Chapter: 314 (DBZ 120), P13.4-6
Goku: “I-I didn’t want to use this Genki-Dama. It will probably have too much force and squash the entire planet…But if I don’t defeat Freeza now, the universe itself will be in trouble…I don’t know if I’ll be able to pull this off right, but I’ve got to do it…You planets close to Namek! Give me just a little bit of your genki…!”
Chapter: 285 (DBZ 91), P14.6
Context: talking to Nail
Freeza: “I’m the strongest in the universe! I’ll show you how terrifying I am!”



Chapter: 315 (DBZ 121), P2.2-5, P3.1-2
Kuririn: “It-it’s huge…And it’s getting even bigger…”
Piccolo: “Is it really that big?”
Gohan: “On Earth it was about this big [he holds out his hands]”
Kuririn: “Th-this time its diameter is about 50 meters…He shouldn’t be able to make a Genki-Dama that huge on this planet…Goku must have even gathered ki from the surrounding planets…”
Piccolo: “Freeza doesn’t seem to have noticed yet…So why doesn’t Goku attack with that ball right away?...”
Kuririn: “Goku’s definitely thinking that if he doesn’t gather more ki and make it even huger, it won’t be able to defeat Freeza…”
Chapter: 314 (DBZ 120), P13.4-6
Goku: “I-I didn’t want to use this Genki-Dama. It will probably have too much force and squash the entire planet…But if I don’t defeat Freeza now, the universe itself will be in trouble…I don’t know if I’ll be able to pull this off right, but I’ve got to do it…You planets close to Namek! Give me just a little bit of your genki…!”

Chapter: 315 (DBZ 121), P2.2-5, P3.1-2
Kuririn: “It-it’s huge…And it’s getting even bigger…”
Piccolo: “Is it really that big?”
Gohan: “On Earth it was about this big [he holds out his hands]”
Kuririn: “Th-this time its diameter is about 50 meters…He shouldn’t be able to make a Genki-Dama that huge on this planet…Goku must have even gathered ki from the surrounding planets…”
Piccolo: “Freeza doesn’t seem to have noticed yet…So why doesn’t Goku attack with that ball right away?...”
Kuririn: “Goku’s definitely thinking that if he doesn’t gather more ki and make it even huger, it won’t be able to defeat Freeza…”
Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P3.5
Context: as he lets Freeza power all the way up
Goku: “I really might not get this chance again…The chance to see the strongest bastard in the universe at full power…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy…However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”

On Cell, EXPLICTLY CONFIRMING he has the powers of Freeza and King Cold:
Chapter: 365 (DBZ 171), P2.1
Context: talking about Cell’s menace
Piccolo: “It’s not just the Earth…This could turn out terrible for all the planets in the universe…Don’t forget that he has the blood of Freeza and his father…”

The entire context shows when they mention Freeza being a threat to the universe, it's in a very specific planetary way.

In Shonen Jump it was stated about the universe ITSELF, not only planets(translation in my blog was made by @PernidaParnkgjas who's a real translator). And why would Frieza destroy planets and life on them, when in manga and anime it was business for his family which he admits? It's about anime(Z and Kai), when with manga I can agree(in manga he doesn't has statements about his STRENGHT more like about his abstarct threat). Also what do you think about Genkidama and my calc, do you agree with it?

 

[Mgebrat282]

There ARE feats, Toei Cell upscales from Toei SSJ Broly, who destroyed a quadrant of an infinite structure. Uni Cell for the toei anime is just far more full-proof than Z Frieza (counting both anime and manga)

But he destroyed the quadrant's planets and stars, not litteral 1/4 of the universe itself, so why Genkidama made from all stars and planets in the universe can't be infinitly powerful making tanking it by Frieza the same lvl feat?

 

[StarShooter80]

But he destroyed the quadrant's planets and stars, not litteral 1/4 of the universe itself

It's straight up visually shown that the sector was being destroyed so it is a high uni feat

so why Genkidama made from all stars and planets in the universe can't be infinitly powerful making tanking it by Frieza the same lvl feat?

It's explicitly said in both the manga, anime and even the legendary manga guide you linked, that Goku's only calling out to planets that are nearby/within the vicinity of Namek, which is completely contradictory to it being the whole universe. The universe in this context can easily just be interpreted as just broadly/hyperbolically the many residents/planets of the universe striking back

 

[Mgebrat282]

It's straight up visually shown that the sector was being destroyed so it is a high uni feat

It's explicitly said in both the manga, anime and even the legendary manga guide you linked, that Goku's only calling out to planets that are nearby/within the vicinity of Namek, which is completely contradictory to it being the whole universe. The universe in this context can easily just be interpreted as just broadly/hyperbolically the many residents/planets of the universe striking back

Broly destroyed only stars and planets in quadrant, not the litteral part of the universe and it was shown
In anime Goku asked for energy from the entire universe:"Grass, trees, and animals of Namek, as well as all living things in the universe, share your Genki", and in Dragonball Forever it was stated that he used the energy from the entire universe. I understand what you mean, but it can be called only for title from el manga, and I agree with it, but it contradicts and can't be applyied with "Gather the enegry from the whole universe" or lines from animes, since they are pretty direct with from where Goku was taking energy.

 

[StarShooter80]

Broly destroyed only stars and planets in quadrant, not the litteral part of the universe and it was shown

That’s just straight up the south galaxy huh?

In anime Goku asked for energy from the entire universe:"Grass, trees, and animals of Namek, as well as all living things in the universe, share your Genki", and in Dragonball Forever it was stated that he used the energy from the entire universe. I understand what you mean, but it can be called only for title from el manga, and I agree with it, but it contradicts and can't be applyied with "Gather the enegry from the whole universe" or lines from animes, since they are pretty direct with from where Goku was taking energy.

Then that just makes the “all living things” statement a hyperbole if anything, as the context very explicitly states he’s only gathering energy from planets nearby Namek which wholeheartedly contradicts that. The DB Forever scans also rely on machines translations, request an actual translation from the wiki, but either way that’d also just fall under being a hyperbole

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Cell was accepted in anime, and this blog is also about anime(Kai and Z), so why Frieza atleast in anime can't be universal with better statements? Also Frieza has a feat with Genkidama.

As others have said that's Toei cell who doesn't scale to his canon self. Z and Kai do Not have him as uni or multi. Go get a direct scan from the manga itself, guidebooks or databooks are full of Hyperbole. If they was fully used then everything in DB would be upscaled.
Go get a OTL,

"That blog means nothing, those calculations don't mean a whole lot either. If all that "Evidence" you have in the blog is all you have then.. not enough so w this , I have debunked what you said"
Why does it mean nothing?

Because, it doesn't mean much and it's not even accepted yet from what I am seeing so.

 

[Mgebrat282]

That’s just straight up the south galaxy huh?

I mean, if this accepted as part of the infinite universe when it's a quadrant full of stars and planets, then why can't genkidama with all planets and stars in universe be as strong?

Then that just makes the “all living things” statement a hyperbole if anything, as the context very explicitly states he’s only gathering energy from planets nearby Namek which wholeheartedly contradicts that. The DB Forever scans also rely on machines translations, request an actual translation from the wiki, but either way that’d also just fall under being a hyperbole

I finally got a translation from translator...he said the same as machine "While Piccolo and the others are distracting, gather the energy of the entire universe!". And in Kai Goku, when he started taking energy for Genkidama, he asked everything from the entire universe, not just planets near Namek. In my opinion, such statements actually expand the scope rather than hyperbolizing it. For example, in the manga and anime, Goku only took energy from Namek, some Oni, and Earth in the Buu arc, emphasizing the importance of obtaining energy from Earthlings. However, the additional materials expand on this aspect, stating that Goku took energy from the entire universe 7, which is more logical.

 

[Mgebrat282]

As others have said that's Toei cell who doesn't scale to his canon self. Z and Kai do Not have him as uni or multi. Go get a direct scan from the manga itself, guidebooks or databooks are full of Hyperbole. If they was fully used then everything in DB would be upscaled.
Go get a OTL,

What's OTL?

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

What's OTL?

Official translation.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Official translation.

I already have one @PernidaParnkgjas, but his on Instagram not on VSBW

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

I already have one @PernidaParnkgjas, but his on Instagram not on VSBW

You need a VSBW one.
So I would suggest
Going to this thread and asking for one. If it's not approved by TL helpers/mods then what you have can't be used

 

[StarShooter80]

I mean, if this accepted as part of the infinite universe when it's a quadrant full of stars and planets, then why can't genkidama with all planets and stars in universe be as strong?

That's assuming that it even does include every celestial body in the infinite universe

I finally got a translation from translator...he said the same as machine "While Piccolo and the others are distracting, gather the energy of the entire universe!". And in Kai Goku, when he started taking energy for Genkidama, he asked everything from the entire universe, not just planets near Namek. In my opinion, such statements actually expand the scope rather than hyperbolizing it. For example, in the manga and anime, Goku only took energy from Namek, some Oni, and Earth in the Buu arc, emphasizing the importance of obtaining energy from Earthlings. However, the additional materials expand on this aspect, stating that Goku took energy from the entire universe 7, which is more logical.

I'm sorry but we don't use offsite translators, and I don't get your follow up point either at all for how the Buu arc spirit bomb relates to the Namek one. Also all of the links just lead to a imgbb login page, and we don't use the Kai anime for either the manga or toei continuities stick to one

 

[Mgebrat282]

Bump

 

[Mgebrat282]

As others have said that's Toei cell who doesn't scale to his canon self. Z and Kai do Not have him as uni or multi. Go get a direct scan from the manga itself, guidebooks or databooks are full of Hyperbole. If they was fully used then everything in DB would be upscaled.
Go get a OTL,


Because, it doesn't mean much and it's not even accepted yet from what I am seeing so.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/offic...thread-new-forum.107531/page-162#post-7511273 Bump

 

[Mgebrat282]

Bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I wake up ready to start the day and I see this...

Hard disagree with this upgrade like everyone else, it's hyperbole statements and illogical for Frieza, especially his Manga/Z version to scale to such a high tier. His on panel/screen feats don't come close to this and narratively it makes no sense when his superior, Cell brags about being a Solar System buster and that's not to mention you neglected to mention downscaling since base Goku is a set level weaker than his SS state which would result in Namek saga characters being multi-galaxy busters which doesn't match any of their on screen feats or solid statements.

I'm not going to get into Toai because I'm not a fan of it's high ratings either but I don't think I'll ever find the time to discuss that topic but at least they've got something backing the rating. This however just doesn't work and ignores how wanked this would make the canon scaling chain. Since multiple staff and knowledgeable DB users disagree with this, I'm closing it.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/offic...thread-new-forum.107531/page-162#post-7511273 Bump

Still doesn't change anything, it doesn't match on screen feats our the narrative, said Frieza who took that spirit bomb was unsure about tanking Nameks explosion which wasn't a universe level explosion.