WARHAMMER CHAOS TIER 0

[FanSyst]

Chaos is one of the elements of Warhammer that I believe should be considered tier 0.

Endless Potential is the origin of everything that exists in Warhammer.

In the moments before the Beginning, there was no Time, no Matter, and no Dimension, only the Endless Potential for these things—for in the absence of absolutely everything, absolutely anything becomes possible. And so it was that this Endless Potential realised its own existence, thus creating the Universe and all the planes of existence that run parallel to it. As Time and Matter and Dimension swelled in the physical womb of the Realised, the Potential continued to grow alongside them within the metaphysical womb of the still Unrealised. Every new creation brought with it the possibility for growth and a greater complexity of Form and Process.

In the Aethyr, absolutely anything is possible, and it interacts with every aspect of reality. It is a truly infinite element, beyond all measure or comprehension.

One could view the Aethyr as infinite potential, a state where absolutely everything (conceivable and otherwise) is possible but not necessarily probable. Possibility and potential are key parts of reality, woven into every single aspect of the Mortal Plane, from the smallest to the largest, from the inanimate to the animate, and from that which cannot be detected by the senses to that which can. For indeed, the words “possibility” and “potential” are used to describe something otherwise immeasurable—whether that’s because the things they stand for lack any dimension or existence on their own to measure or whether it’s because they are truly infinite and therefore beyond all measure.

It has references to Negative Theology.
The Aethyr contains all things; it cannot be described directly, only symbolically.

Therefore, many scholar-Wizards of the Imperial Colleges of Magic insist that it is self-defeating to try to define the Aethyr in terms that are not symbolic and abstract because, unlike the Mortal Plane with its facts and physics, the Aethyr is a state of metaphysics containing all things.

Describing it as a “realm”, “place”, or “state” is too restrictive. The Aethyr can be all of those things and more, but it cannot be reduced to any of them.

Perhaps, then, calling the Aethyr a realm or even a place is too limiting. The Aethyr has the potential to be a place, state, or thing only because the Aethyr might actually be infinite potential; therefore, it encompasses and contains all possibilities (including that of being a place and realm), but it is at the same time not only just a place, state, or thing.

Mortarion uses an analogy to reveal the nature of the warp through the Via Negativa, taking as an example the omnipotent god in whom ancient humans believed.

Mortarion smiled joylessly behind the rebreather. He turned, gesturing to the collection of esoterica in his chambers. ‘These are wards,’ he said. ‘Protections against the dark. Sorcery is a cancer. We must guard against it. Push it back.’ He shuffled over to one of the scrolls and idly traced a finger over the text. ‘The ancient Terrans believed in one god. Infinite. Omnipotent. That gave them a conundrum – how to describe perfection? What words could possibly suffice?’ Mortarion crumpled the parchment in his fist. His fingers were almost trembling. ‘All they allowed themselves was the via negativa – to speak of what their god was not like. And when they had exhausted all the things that were not true, what remained in the blind spot was his nature.’ He looked back at her, and the evident loathing returned. ‘I surround myself with all that is not the warp, for it is hateful to me. Whatever remains is corruption. I seek it out. I destroy it.’

 

[Blackcurrant91]

While I believe some statements about Aethyr could be taken to be higher then 1-A I understand that there are too many anti-feats, such as the warp being affected by mortal minds and the chaos gods being able to change/affect each others realms as far as I know but I only know the cosmology, not tier 1/0

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Aethyr just seems like a sort of metaphysical ground or potential. The fact it has the "potential to be" is a problem in and of itself, when a tier 0 would be completely beyond the potential to be, as a tier 0 would be pure actuality.

 

[Vietthai96]

One could view the Aethyr as infinite potential, a state where absolutely everything (conceivable and otherwise) is possible but not necessarily probable.

The Aethyr has the potential to be a place, state, or thing only because the Aethyr might actually be infinite potential

These parts just killed the entire argument for Tier 0, tbh

This mean Aethyr have infinite potential to be something, tier 0 isn't that

 

[Elyartaker]

For the reasons mentioned above, I don’t see it as Tier 0.
But I do think later you can try for High 1-A+ instead (it reminds me of The Perfect Whiteness) but still not sure.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I agree with MGQ. Disagree with the thread.

 

[FanSyst]

 

[Vietthai96]

But I do think later you can try for High 1-A+ instead

Yeah, no, at best i could see it being 1-A

 

[Elyartaker]

Yeah, no, at best i could see it being 1-A

Yeah that would be the most appropriate rating.

 

[Jockey-1337]

The funniest thing: none of these "multiversal" and "transcendental" gods are able to conquer a single galaxy yet.
Moreover, Warhammer Universe is full of myths, legends, and propaganda.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

The funniest thing: none of these "multiversal" and "transcendental" gods are able to conquer a single galaxy yet.
Moreover, Warhammer Universe is full of myths, legends, and propaganda.

go back to spacebattles brochacho

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The funniest thing: none of these "multiversal" and "transcendental" gods are able to conquer a single galaxy yet.
Moreover, Warhammer Universe is full of myths, legends, and propaganda.

a galaxy may as well be 1-A if there is a 1-A entity protecting it broskis

 

[Jockey-1337]

a galaxy may as well be 1-A if there is a 1-A entity protecting it broskis

1-A galaxy? Are you joking?

The powers of Chaos Gods depend on souls, emotions and rituals. (Source: Codex Books, where the description was done from the viewpoint of an omniscient narrator (Author/Reader), it is not a myth and propaganda).
And the guy who supposedly "fights" with these gods, for some strange reasons needed to create legions of super soldiers to try to conquer the galaxy. (Source: Codex Books).

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

1-A galaxy? Are you joking?

The powers of Chaos Gods depend on souls, emotions and rituals. (Source: Codex Books, where the description was done from the viewpoint of an omniscient narrator (Author/Reader), it is not a myth and propaganda).
And the guy who supposedly "fights" with these gods, for some strange reasons needed to create legions of super soldiers to try to conquer the galaxy. (Source: Codex Books).

You mean these literal 1-A souls connected to the warp? lmfao

 

[FanSyst]

It would have been better if they had let the thread die.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

1-A galaxy? Are you joking?

The powers of Chaos Gods depend on souls, emotions and rituals. (Source: Codex Books, where the description was done from the viewpoint of an omniscient narrator (Author/Reader), it is not a myth and propaganda).
And the guy who supposedly "fights" with these gods, for some strange reasons needed to create legions of super soldiers to try to conquer the galaxy. (Source: Codex Books).

You misunderstood me
The galaxy can be 3-C for all technical purposes
But if a 1-A entity is protecting it. There is no feasible way you can destroy it without getting something on that level.
You can solo a tied chicken, but you can't reasonably get to it if a massive giant is holding it all the time.
It is not meant to be literal bro

and also what MGQ says.

 

[Nonynho]

The funniest thing: none of these "multiversal" and "transcendental" gods are able to conquer a single galaxy yet.

authors really like the imperium, for starters

 

[Jockey-1337]

You mean these literal 1-A souls connected to the warp? lmfao

You misunderstood me
The galaxy can be 3-C for all technical purposes
But if a 1-A entity is protecting it. There is no feasible way you can destroy it without getting something on that level.
You can solo a tied chicken, but you can't reasonably get to it if a massive giant is holding it all the time.
It is not meant to be literal bro

and also what MGQ says.

No one in Warhammer 40K is 1-A. I will make a CRT when I finish the Dark Tower stuff (in January).

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

feel free

 

[Re5yh]

Nah Bro, MGQ is absolutely serious here

 

[VoidGoji]

No one in Warhammer 40K is 1-A. I will make a CRT when I finish the Dark Tower stuff (in January).

Good luck

 

[DaReaperMan]

The funniest thing: none of these "multiversal" and "transcendental" gods are able to conquer a single galaxy yet.
Moreover, Warhammer Universe is full of myths, legends, and propaganda.

Jockey. Do you know the Skein is?

Well, if you don't, think about it as the Materium's condom. It's how the Chaos Gods don't just show up in their full forms and can only show up in short bursts while in extremely diminished staes in extreme events like Fantasy Endtimes or through Daemons.

That is what is stopping them from deleting the universe in 40K. Or AoS. Or Fantasy. This is stated ad-infinitum. You haven't even dipped your tippie toes into the Warhammer Cosmology soup yet if you don't yet know why the Chaos Gods don't just eat the world.

Not to mention you have to go through like, 300 books to touch Warhammer Cosmology. If you don't like Fantasy or AoS, sorry bub, I was in the server that got the big push to connect the cosmologies. Gotta touch that shit too.

 

[Mbpoops]

No one in Warhammer 40K is 1-A. I will make a CRT when I finish the Dark Tower stuff (in January).

Cook

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'll say this: We at Warhammer Incorporated are fine with being downgraded from 1-A as long as there's good arguments behind it, but if that reason is "but they don't just vore the galaxy/Mortal Realms/World", You are going to be thrown into a dumpster thanks to the context behind that.

 

[Re5yh]

No one in Warhammer 40K is 1-A. I will make a CRT when I finish the Dark Tower stuff (in January).

How a obsessed person who loves feats be like

 

[Jockey-1337]

I'll say this: We at Warhammer Incorporated are fine with being downgraded from 1-A as long as there's good arguments behind it, but if that reason is "but they don't just vore the galaxy/Mortal Realms/World", You are going to be thrown into a dumpster thanks to the context behind that.

Not to mention you have to go through like, 300 books to touch Warhammer Cosmology. If you don't like Fantasy or AoS, sorry bub, I was in the server that got the big push to connect the cosmologies. Gotta touch that shit too.

To mix the 40K setting with the FB/AOS setting is already a bad idea.

 

[DaReaperMan]

To mix the 40K setting with the FB/AOS setting is already a bad idea.

The reason it happenes is basically: There is quite a bit of overlap and easter eggs, like a Chainsword appearing in Fantasy, and there's nothing going directly against it. Here's the blog, here's the CRT.

I've heard the whole "GW said they're not connected", but I've never gotten a scan for it.

 

[Jockey-1337]

The reason it happenes is basically: There is quite a bit of overlap and easter eggs, like a Chainsword appearing in Fantasy, and there's nothing going directly against it. Here's the blog, here's the CRT.

I've heard the whole "GW said they're not connected", but I've never gotten a scan for it.

I didn't read it because it says "Ok don’t stop reading here...no please...I swear I have a point...you’re still done?"

Jokes aside, Warhammer 40K Universe has a lot of anti-feats and limits, I will make my collections of this stuff soon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I didn't read it because it says "Ok don’t stop reading here...no please...I swear I have a point...you’re still done?"

Jokes aside, Warhammer 40K Universe has a lot of anti-feats and limits, I will make my collections of this stuff soon.

It also has a lot of feats, Frankly, as part of your CRT I'd put in a Likely/Possibly compromise thing in voting, cause this is one of those situations where I'm pretty sure once you actually look into it, your points will be good, and Blackcurrant usually knows WTF he's talking about for Warhammer stuff, so both sides will have solid points.

In any case, you want an invite to the Warhammer Fantasy Discord? We're currently discussing something entirely unrelated to this but hey. More meat that's actually working on the verse differing opinion or not is always good.

 

[Jockey-1337]

There is quite a bit of overlap and easter eggs, like a Chainsword appearing in Fantasy, and there's nothing going directly against it

The lack of the FB's Skaven Chaos God in 40K Chaos Codex out-weights the easter eggs, in my opinion.

In any case, you want an invite to the Warhammer Fantasy Discord?

No, thanks, I'm not active in Discord, and when I tried to be more active - I found a serious problem: this App is not well-suited for debates with huge text messages. Internet forums like this one are easier and better.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The lack of the FB's Skaven Chaos God in 40K Chaos Codex out-weights the easter eggs, in my opinion.

The Great Horned Rat can just not have expanded into 40K, since all of it's followers are in Fantasy/AoS. There is no Ratman in Warhammer 40,000. Despite how profitable it'd be to put Skaven in 40K

No, thanks, I'm not active in Discord, and when I tried to be more active - I found a serious problem: this App is not well-suited for debates with huge text messages. Internet forums like this one are easier and better.

Honestly? Fair. I can debate you on walls for things like the above point as you make it, so you have something either to say "Yeah that's fair" or to argue with you on it to work out kinks before it drops.

 

[FanSyst]

The White Dwarf in 2025 indicated that the Chaos Gods, the original 4, are the same in all scenarios; it also states that the Horned Rat, despite being a Chaos God, is still not like the others.

On the other hand, there is a reference to the Horned Rat during the Siege of Terra, a demon named Kweethul.

 

[Firestorm808]

Shall I close this thread?

 

[FanSyst]

Shall I close this thread?

Yes