LMK Change #2

[Arency]

It has been accepted here that Fate is considered as CM2 but as I review the ability deeper, I think there’s a good reason that it should be type 1 instead as Fate is independent from the universe’s reality, here are the proofs:

1. Despite the universe’s reality being destroyed by the Primordial Chaos, the power Fate grows stronger instead and needs MK to control it before it gets too powerful (0:50). Same situation happened here (5:39) as it needed a seal to contain it

2. It was stated that the power of Fate came from the Chaos Beyond (10:29), so it doesn’t originate with the universe as the Chaos Beyond predates the universe (5:37). Also implied by Xiang Liu that the Goddess of Destiny exists outside of the cave (the universe in context), surrounding it (7:58-9:02)

3. Despite the universe’s reality being crushed by the Primordial Chaos, Fate was shown to be unaffected as it restored the entire universe’s reality back to normal as before (6:55)

EDIT: Adding new args due to a recent accepted CRT

4. Since it has been accepted that LBD has the power of fate due to having the same power as MK, Fate should be type 1 as stated that LBD wants to destroy the entire world (10:34) alongside Chaos with the Samadhi Fire (8:20), the same weapon that can burn through the very fabric of reality (4:02), and would have survived after complete erasure of the universe and everything beyond it as she will create an entirely new world where chaos doesn’t exists here (4:00) and here (0:30). And to further back it up, She said she's doing all this because of Fate instructing her multiple times here (0:53), here (8:09) and here (10:42)

5. While the Primordial Chaos is accepted to be a concept and predates the universe and time here, it should be type 1. But how will it be relevant to Fate’s nature? Mainly because as talked in point 2, Fate came from the Chaos Beyond and not only that, it’s the only power that can prevent from the Primordial Chaos completely crushing the entire universe here (5:42), here (3:05) and here (7:24)​

 

[Qawsedf234]

As in the other thread, nothing here suggests Type 1 in my view.

3. Despite the universe’s reality being crushed by the Primordial Chaos, Fate was shown to be unaffected as it restored the entire universe’s reality back to normal as before (6:55)

Reality still exists in this scan, as... People are around to fix it.

. Despite the universe’s reality being destroyed by the Primordial Chaos, the power Fate grows stronger instead and needs MK to control it before it gets too powerful (0:50). Same situation

This isn't a Type 1 justification. Growing stronger with the death of the universe doesn't make it independent of the universe. In fact it implies the opposite.

 

[Arency]

Reality still exists in this scan, as... People are around to fix it..

Well they needed the power itself to fix it since they can't do it by themselves.

This isn't a Type 1 justification. Growing stronger with the death of the universe doesn't make it independent of the universe. In fact it implies the opposite.

Not sure what you mean by that since the power passively grows by itself, it needed someone to stabilize it.

Type 2 would imply reality getting destroyed would get the power itself destroyed/weakened.

 

[CasperSenar]

As in the other thread, nothing here suggests Type 1 in my view.


Reality still exists in this scan, as... People are around to fix it.



This isn't a Type 1 justification. Growing stronger with the death of the universe doesn't make it independent of the universe. In fact it implies the opposite.

Well they needed the power itself to fix it since they can't do it by themselves.

Not sure what you mean by that since the power passively grows by itself, it needed someone to stabilize it.

Type 2 would imply reality getting destroyed would get the power itself destroyed/weakened.

Hello can you response? Thanks

 

[SomebodyData]

In general agreement with Qawsedf

Well they needed the power itself to fix it since they can't do it by themselves.

Not sure what you mean by that since the power passively grows by itself, it needed someone to stabilize it.

Type 2 would imply reality getting destroyed would get the power itself destroyed/weakened.

1. Think his point was that reality wasn't destroyed - not if they needed power.

2. The issue is that it shows there is a connection, if Fate's power is in anyway linked to the state of the universe.

 

[CasperSenar]

In general agreement with Qawsedf



1. Think his point was that reality wasn't destroyed - not if they needed power.

2. The issue is that it shows there is a connection, if Fate's power is in anyway linked to the state of the universe.

There's not really a connection tho since the power passively grows by itself. Like example here (10:18) when the power is removed from the user, it grows uncontrollably. And the other time when it grows uncontrollably, it because it's seal got directly removed (10:47)

 

[SomebodyData]

There's not really a connection tho since the power passively grows by itself. Like example here (10:18) when the power is removed from the user, it grows uncontrollably. And the other time when it grows uncontrollably, it because it's seal got directly removed (10:47)

Ah I see now, so it is just irrelevant to the discussion in general- that makes sense.

 

[CasperSenar]

Ah I see now, so it is just irrelevant to the discussion in general- that makes sense.

So do you agree with the thread? There's also point 2 in case you missed it

 

[SomebodyData]

So do you agree with the thread? There's also point 2 in case you missed it

Well point 2 is supporting evidence, but it would still ultimately need quite a bit more evidence before I would agree with CM Type 1, sorry.

 

[CasperSenar]

Well point 2 is supporting evidence, but it would still ultimately need quite a bit more evidence before I would agree with CM Type 1, sorry.

Well we did saw that when the power was has completely destroyed realms like the Pagoda, it remains growing here (0:38). Also when multiple realities was completely destroyed by MK here (5:40) and here (10:00), The power was shown to be unaffected here (8:46)

Also shouldn't a concept predating time qualifies for type 1? Cause it's accepted for Nuwa in her profile

 

[CasperSenar]

Well point 2 is supporting evidence, but it would still ultimately need quite a bit more evidence before I would agree with CM Type 1, sorry.

Hello can you check my response thanks

Well we did saw that when the power was has completely destroyed realms like the Pagoda, it remains growing here (0:38). Also when multiple realities was completely destroyed by MK here (5:40) and here (10:00), The power was shown to be unaffected here (8:46)

Also shouldn't a concept predating time qualifies for type 1? Cause it's accepted for Nuwa in her profile

 

[CasperSenar]

As in the other thread, nothing here suggests Type 1 in my view.


Reality still exists in this scan, as... People are around to fix it.



This isn't a Type 1 justification. Growing stronger with the death of the universe doesn't make it independent of the universe. In fact it implies the opposite.

Hello are you still here? If yes, can you check these

There's not really a connection tho since the power passively grows by itself. Like example here (10:18) when the power is removed from the user, it grows uncontrollably. And the other time when it grows uncontrollably, it because it's seal got directly removed (10:47)

Well we did saw that when the power was has completely destroyed realms like the Pagoda, it remains growing here (0:38). Also when multiple realities was completely destroyed by MK here (5:40) and here (10:00), The power was shown to be unaffected here (8:46)

Also shouldn't a concept predating time qualifies for type 1? Cause it's accepted for Nuwa in her profile

 

[Qawsedf234]

Hello are you still here? If yes, can you check these

I still don't see either as suggesting it's untied from reality.

Also shouldn't a concept predating time qualifies for type 1?

Time itself is a concept. Predating time doesn't make something Type 1. It's existing functionally outside of reality because it participates in the concept and not the other way around.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well we did saw that when the power was has completely destroyed realms like the Pagoda, it remains growing here (0:38). Also when multiple realities was completely destroyed by MK here (5:40) and here (10:00), The power was shown to be unaffected here (8:46)

Also shouldn't a concept predating time qualifies for type 1? Cause it's accepted for Nuwa in her profile

Pretty much what Qawsedf said here tbh

 

[CasperSenar]

I still don't see either as suggesting it's untied from reality.

Time itself is a concept. Predating time doesn't make something Type 1. It's existing functionally outside of reality because it participates in the concept and not the other way around.

Wait so how else you gonna prove a concept is type 1? Cause I saw many profiles that the concepts simply predating the universe qualifies for it. I also have shown the concept being uneffected when realities are completely destroyed

 

[Arency]

Pretty much what Qawsedf said here tbh

I still don't see either as suggesting it's untied from reality.

Can any of you ping @Planck69 in the crt please?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Cause I saw many profiles that the concepts simply predating the universe qualifies for it. I also have shown the concept being uneffected when realities are completely destroyed

You haven't shown either case here is the main issue. Fate doesn't predates the universe and you have no strong evidence that it survives it's destruction.

Can any of you ping

@Planck69 They asked me to ping you.

 

[Planck69]

I still don't see either as suggesting it's untied from reality.

Time itself is a concept. Predating time doesn't make something Type 1. It's existing functionally outside of reality because it participates in the concept and not the other way around.

I don't think we treat time as a concept in the way the wiki indexes them, no?

As for the rest, it doesn't seem sufficient for Type 1 concept manipulation, from what I can tell.

Neutral, leaning on disagreeing.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't think we treat time as a concept in the way the wiki indexes them, no?

Time can both be a concept and a physical entity, but we usually treat it as the latter by default.

But there can be a concept of Time that objects within time participate in.

 

[Arency]

You haven't shown either case here is the main issue. Fate doesn't predates the universe and you have no strong evidence that it survives it's destruction.

Nuwa, the Goddess of Destiny/Fate was accepted to predate the universe tho.

She's also the one who constructed the universe with the power as without it, Chaos wouldn't allow it to exist in the first place.

Also pretty sure Casper shown realities being destroyed completely yet the power shown to be uneffected.

 

[Arency]

Time can both be a concept and a physical entity, but we usually treat it as the latter by default.

But there can be a concept of Time that objects within time participate in.

Pretty much what Qawsedf said here tbh

Can y'all check the OP again since I updated/edited it please

 

[CasperSenar]

Time can both be a concept and a physical entity, but we usually treat it as the latter by default.

But there can be a concept of Time that objects within time participate in.

Can y'all check the OP again since I updated/edited it please

Bump

 

[CasperSenar]

I don't think we treat time as a concept in the way the wiki indexes them, no?

As for the rest, it doesn't seem sufficient for Type 1 concept manipulation, from what I can tell.

Neutral, leaning on disagreeing.

Wait can you check the updated OP?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Got asked to tag you once more: @Qawsedf234 don't kill the messenger

 

[Dark_Shadow-34513]

Tôi được yêu cầu gắn thẻ bạn thêm một lần nữa: @Qawsedf234 đừng trách người đưa tin

By the way, would you agree with this thread after Arency updates the additional scans?

 

[CasperSenar]

By the way, would you agree with this thread after Arency updates the additional scans?

Well I prefer to wait for Qawsed but he doesn't seem interested being here as I and Arency bumped him

Edit: The OP mentioned of not gonna be active long so I made a new thread tackling this subject while also tackling Chaos and providing extra evidences here in case if any staffs sees this thread