Town-level Tiersetter Tournament, Round 5: Sisyphus Prime vs Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd

[Naito-desu]

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STAGE SELECT: METRO KINGDOM

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MATCH RULES

• Speed is equalized by default
• Both start 50 meters apart in the center, SBA otherwise
• Rules are subject to changes on a per-match basis to make them fairer or more interesting
• If a match is deemed inconclusive, the advancement will be decided on a coin toss.
• If a match is stalled due to a lack of votes, the host may declare an outcome at their discretion. These decisions are only for tournament purposes, not for profile additions.

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Sisyphus Prime {13.85 kilotons}: 4 (Shadowslash, Naito, AnAverageUsername, Jerry59)

Dimitri {15.94 kilotons}: 1

Incon: 0

 

[AnAverageUsername]

So we all agree Sisyphus is Sisyphucked, yeah?

 

[Naito-desu]

It's closer with Dimitri, I feel. I'll need to rally some FE supporters but I'll wait for Jerry to comment

 

[Shadowslash125]

I know enough about Dimitri, other than the fact that I'm not sure what he'd be using, since the profiles give him some sort of composite class thing.

 

[Jerry59]

Dimitri’s profile didn’t really give me a clear grasp of his kit tbh. What he’s capable of?

 

[Franstel]

So for Standard Tactics: Dimitri is mainly a lance fighter, willing to throw hand if it come down to it. Although, he can use magic, he called himself bad at it and doesn't use it much.

Fighting options: as i said Dimitri will go for Melee with his lance though before he get there he have options to put pressure on his target while he close the gap.

• His regular strikes can hit at range
• He has used his lance as a throwing weapons in the past.

He can use combat art to further empower his blows and on top of it his crest double the AP behind his combat arts.
He possess skills that further boost his stats like Defiant Strenght or reduced the damage he take from ranged attacks via Aegis
He have healing potions his Standard equipment give him six use of those.

Futhermore, he isn't just a strong brutes but a highly skilled fighter able to take on dozens of goes by himself. Better link the skill blog for it. Dimitri being at House Leader level.

 

[Shadowslash125]

That explains it well. So what about Sisyphus?

 

[Jerry59]

Sisyphus’s tactic is kind of similar to Dimitri’s in the sense that he’s a melee fighter with ranged options, except he uses his fists and explosive abilities instead. As already stated in the pfp, he relentlessly attacks his opponent with barely any room for recovery, though he will (albeit quite rarely) stop at times to taunt. He’s extremely mobile, even dashing around airborne, on a level comparable to what Dimitri can do based on the blog you sent, in addition that the explosions and shockwaves he frequently spams, with the latter are phasing type make it unlikely that Dimitri could even block them. To make things even more troublesome, Sisyphus can amp himself, gaining a little speed boost while causing more explosions with his attacks, which makes him even more versatile than he already is. Dimitri’s tens of meters range with just his lance is also canceled out by Sisyphus’s sheer size and his ability to catch up easily through bursts of movement. As a result Dimitri would pretty much be forced into melee for the entire match, while Sisyphus retains the option to snipe him with glints of light (that create even more explosions) if Dimitri tries to go ranged with throwing weapons.

Prime Souls are basically the heavy hitters of the verse. Sisyphus Prime himself can gore and reduce Flesh Panopticon to mush in two casual strikes (worth noting that it’s scripted for Sisyphus to break out of his prison regardless of the player’s influence, which aligns with the fact that the angels fear he will be able to escape after awakening, proving that he doesn’t even need V1 to weaken the Panopticon beforehand). The Panopticon is a superior version of the Flesh Prison, and both are physically tougher than V1 and CoKM, who are the sources of the 13.85 KT feat. All of this, combined with his explosive and shockwave hax makes Dimitri’s more temporary methods of amping and healing way less effective (and like, Sisyphus stresses out V1, a V1 who objectively has better healing than relying on items at all, so uh-)

Sisyphus definitely doesn’t fall short in skill. Unless the gap is extreme, like putting a random thug against Kazuma Kiryu kind of extreme, an abstract (or whatever the more fitting term is) advantage such as combat skill doesn’t matter THAT much when there’s this much AoE built into the guy’s fists. But that aside-

Spoiler: skilled characters when i throw a rock at their balls

We know the angels, infamously known for their arrogance, always shit themselves whenever a Prime Soul is about to form. We have Sisyphus casually claims he would crush the armies of heaven, which is supported by the fact that we have uh, four WoG statements saying that Minos Prime (a likely weaker Prime Soul) would fodderize Gabriel and has a toss up with an army of angels. The only reason these Prime Souls don’t actually accomplish any of this as feats is because the first thing they encounter after escaping is V1.

Gabriel, by the way, is such an exceptional warrior that he had only tasted victory in his millennia of existence (before getting beaten by V1). And to preempt the idea that this is just experience thing, Gabriel has actively tried to prevent machines from descending deeper into Hell, destroying them in the thousands, many of which are physically more durable than V1 and possess decent combat capability, and he still simply treats them as ants. These machines are driven to participate in the Cyber Grind (shown in the P-2 terminal btw, this link kind of sucks) for rewards and such, it’s basically a simulated arena filled with various types of enemies coming at them nonstop, including other machines, demons, angels yadda yadda.

Speaking of V1, Sisyphus is able to fight and tag it in battle, and he’s one of the toughest fights in the game so far. V1 can fight and dodge gunfire and attacks from its successor V2. Prior to their final fight, V2 copied and eventually had V1’s coin shenanigans (up to their first encounter at least), which should allowing it to do stuff like, chain-ricochet bullets through coins to strike enemies’ weak points without even looking at them, noting that the bullets are microscopic in size. You can check V1’s Superhuman Precision/Intelligence section for this, V2 doesn’t have ALL of these feats (and definitely not the CounterRicoshot ones), but what it does have is still pretty ridiculous.

And uh yeah, V1 also does the Cyber Grind, evidently the most skilled and stylish guy there, constantly dealing with enemies firing bursts of projectiles, homing attacks, and chasing it from all sides, with later waves further amped by Radiance.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Skill stuff is comparable, but ultimately I think the explosion and shockwave hax kinda goes through his blocking in general, so he might be screwed. Though is his explosion/shockwave hax like "I attack you, you block it, but my hits explode and then send a shockwave" ass one?

 

[Jerry59]

"I attack you, you block it, but my hits explode and then send a shockwave" ass one?

It’s that type yuh (In phase 1 his strikes only generate shockwaves, and the explosion moves are separate. But upon reaching phase 2, more of his attacks create both at the same time)

 

[Shadowslash125]

I can see him at most getting through phase 1, and he could win if he's forced to use magic, but Sisyphus might win this more often than not (it's a vote till something changes)

 

[Jerry59]

Bump ig

 

[Naito-desu]

So only Shadowslash voted in favor of Sisyphus yeah?

 

[Jerry59]

So only Shadowslash voted in favor of Sisyphus yeah?

If it couldn’t be more obvious? But yeah only him and I’m still waiting for other responses before actually voting.

 

[Shadowslash125]

I might change votes depending on what Franstel brings

 

[Franstel]

I might change votes depending on what Franstel brings

I'm pretty busy today and tomorrow so best to continue the fight without me for now

 

[Shadowslash125]

So uhh yea. Sisyphus kinda wins likely cuz I'm shit at debating with FE characters.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Wow, looks like Sisyphucked is Sisyphucking up Dmitri, FRA

 

[Naito-desu]

Wow, looks like Sisyphucked is Sisyphucking up Dmitri, FRA

What gave you the impression Sisyphus was losing, based on what I've read it seems leaning towards him

 

[Shadowslash125]

If it's time skip Dimitri, we probably might have a different match, but pre timeskip Dimitri isn't as crazy (???)

 

[AnAverageUsername]

What gave you the impression Sisyphus was losing, based on what I've read it seems leaning towards him

I saw someone in the host thread say that Sisyphus was cooked, I rolled with it cause I could say Sisyphucked

 

[Jerry59]

Bymp

 

[Jerry59]

Bum-p

 

[Shadowslash125]

Sisy FRA

 

[Naito-desu]

Yeah based on the arguments and my impression of the characters I'll vote for Sisyphus

 

[Arkansalter2]

2 boxers, hmm?
Anyways voting Sisyphus. I can imagine dimitri getting Sisy to half but then Sisy ends up Sisyfucking bro.
Sisyphys, mid diff.

 

[Franstel]

So I'm free again though probably too late but I'll respond to some of the arguments anyway.

Sisyphus’s tactic is kind of similar to Dimitri’s in the sense that he’s a melee fighter with ranged options, except he uses his fists and explosive abilities instead. As already stated in the pfp, he relentlessly attacks his opponent with barely any room for recovery, though he will (albeit quite rarely) stop at times to taunt. He’s extremely mobile, even dashing around airborne, on a level comparable to what Dimitri can do based on the blog you sent, in addition that the explosions and shockwaves he frequently spams, with the latter are phasing type make it unlikely that Dimitri could even block them.

Dimitri got NPI so he can block them if he want to.

To make things even more troublesome, Sisyphus can amp himself, gaining a little speed boost while causing more explosions with his attacks, which makes him even more versatile than he already is. Dimitri’s tens of meters range with just his lance is also canceled out by Sisyphus’s sheer size and his ability to catch up easily through bursts of movement.
As a result Dimitri would pretty much be forced into melee for the entire match, while Sisyphus retains the option to snipe him with glints of light (that create even more explosions) if Dimitri tries to go ranged with throwing weapons.

As I said Dimitri is mainly a close combat fighter there's no catching up to do and that would actually be prettty advantageous for Dimitri if Sysiphus close the distance by himself.

Prime Souls are basically the heavy hitters of the verse. Sisyphus Prime himself can gore and reduce Flesh Panopticon to mush in two casual strikes (worth noting that it’s scripted for Sisyphus to break out of his prison regardless of the player’s influence, which aligns with the fact that the angels fear he will be able to escape after awakening, proving that he doesn’t even need V1 to weaken the Panopticon beforehand). The Panopticon is a superior version of the Flesh Prison, and both are physically tougher than V1 and CoKM, who are the sources of the 13.85 KT feat.

Dimitri also greatly upscale from his own value. Like he can casually take down 4 soldiers who scale to value with a single lance strike. He is generally the physically strongest of the students from the Academy Arc including some like Edelgard who killed a demonic beast by herself, and a demonic beast can kill fodder who scale to 15KT effortlessly. So Dimitri still have a slight AP edge in base.

All of this, combined with his explosive and shockwave hax makes Dimitri’s more temporary methods of amping and healing way less effective (and like, Sisyphus stresses out V1, a V1 who objectively has better healing than relying on items at all, so uh-)

Dimitri's skills that amp him are passive so there's no preventing them from increasing his stats. Meanwhile Combat Arts do need to be lanched but given that from what you linked Sysiphus doesn't dodge he shouldn't have any problem landing them.

So to sum it up:

• They will jump into melee, with Dimitri holding several passive stat amp, Combat Arts that as previously mentionned upscale all from a x2 AP amp, and will actively try to dodge/ block attack coming his way which is further amplyfied by stuff like the Evasion ring or Lance prowess wich increase his chances of dodging attacks. Meanwhile Sysiphus have attacks which are harder to dodge but from what you linked just face tank anything thrown at him so even that advantage is mitiated by the fact that Dimitri will just land more strikes on him.
• While Dimitri have access to healing potions which may be a bit harder to consume in the fight it's still better than Sysiphus who don't have access to any.
• Piercing/slashing damage through a lance is also deadlier than blunt damage through explosion.

And thats' without mentioning that Dimitri's profile is severely lacking in stuff he should have like an Awakened state (One shot amp + immo type 2), Azure Lightining (which imbue all pf his attacks with electricity and much more.

So I'm going with Dimitri

 

[Jerry59]

Dimitri got NPI so he can block them if he want to.

You can punch ghosts and still be unable to interact with other types of intangibility without feats, which in this case, the shockwaves aren’t even phantoms or ghosts. He would need the exact NPI. And he cannot block omnidirectional thing such as the explosions either way, so that’s that.

As I said Dimitri is mainly a close combat fighter there's no catching up to do and that would actually be prettty advantageous for Dimitri if Sysiphus close the distance by himself.

It’s clearly not advantageous for a guy who lacks propulsion and only has a range advantage through a weapon to go up against a giant who can detonate wide blasts with their bare fists, like it’s not even a matter of skill.

Dimitri's skills that amp him are passive so there's no preventing them from increasing his stats. Meanwhile Combat Arts do need to be lanched but given that from what you linked Sysiphus doesn't dodge he shouldn't have any problem landing them.

Would have to disagree with using gameplay to justify that he can’t dodge just because he doesn’t have that specific mechanic. But also his army solo skill set already nukes that idea, since it would be impossible for someone to fight a horde of foes that can damage them without dodging or at least reacting accordingly, heck even just several opponents would make that impossible. And if the Combat Arts need to be launched, that means Dimitri will have to find an opening to use them while Sisyphus is pursuing the **** out of him, unless he wants to trade blows with Sisyphus, which would mean dealing with a top-tier who has a massive amount of willpower in a verse full of people with insane pain tolerance.

They will jump into melee, with Dimitri holding several passive stat amp, Combat Arts that as previously mentionned upscale all from a x2 AP amp, and will actively try to dodge/ block attack coming his way which is further amplyfied by stuff like the Evasion ring or Lance prowess wich increase his chances of dodging attacks. Meanwhile Sysiphus have attacks which are harder to dodge but from what you linked just face tank anything thrown at him so even that advantage is mitiated by the fact that Dimitri will just land more strikes on him

I honestly don’t see how Dimitri would be the one landing more hits when there’s a large number of abilities he can’t simply weave through, and certainly can’t block. Stat amps get canceled out by Sisyphus’s sheer versatility with explosions and shockwaves both coming out in the same attacks, so they’re about even in that regard. And if Dimitri turns this into a battle of attrition, Sisyphus has him beat in like, every stamina category ever.

While Dimitri have access to healing potions which may be a bit harder to consume in the fight it's still better than Sysiphus who don't have access to any.

Yeah this is definitely an advantage. It’s barely an effective advantage if he’s forced to fight back and use items simultaneously while Sisyphus keeps throwing sun blasts at him almost nonstop.

Piercing/slashing damage through a lance is also deadlier than blunt damage through explosion.

And piercing weapons have small areas, he’d have to slash Sisyphus repeatedly blood just showering out of him throughout the fight just to hope to have a chance to put him down. And explosions also produce heat, short bursts yes, but constant, which for someone who doesn’t have resistance matters a lot.

And thats' without mentioning that Dimitri's profile is severely lacking in stuff he should have like an Awakened state (One shot amp + immo type 2), Azure Lightining (which imbue all pf his attacks with electricity and much more.

Then this debate is completely pointless because he isn’t up to date enough, both as a versus thread and for this tourney (if you’re really planning to add allat anytime soon ofc)

 

[Franstel]

You can punch ghosts and still be unable to interact with other types of intangibility without feats, which in this case, the shockwaves aren’t even phantoms or ghosts. He would need the exact NPI. And he cannot block omnidirectional thing such as the explosions either way, so that’s that.

The profile described them as phasing intangibility so i went with that but anyway he still have the options to dodge most of them.

It’s clearly not advantageous for a guy who lacks propulsion and only has a range advantage through a weapon to go up against a giant who can detonate wide blasts with their bare fists, like it’s not even a matter of skill.

It is for someone physically stronger, who is used to fighting giant Monster on a weekly basis who are bigger than Sysiphus. And aside of a few most most of his don't look that hard to dodge for someone who can dodge attack that spawn on him.

Would have to disagree with using gameplay to justify that he can’t dodge just because he doesn’t have that specific mechanic. But also his army solo skill set already nukes that idea, since it would be impossible for someone to fight a horde of foes that can damage them without dodging or at least reacting accordingly, heck even just several opponents would make that impossible.

Not if he outstats them badly rush them and kill them before they can do anything + do you have an example of Sysiphus dodging anything + the fighting style you say he do in combat aka continously rush straight for the target kinda make it hard to dodge.

And if the Combat Arts need to be launched, that means Dimitri will have to find an opening to use them while Sisyphus is pursuing the **** out of him, unless he wants to trade blows with Sisyphus, which would mean dealing with a top-tier who has a massive amount of willpower in a verse full of people with insane pain tolerance.

Combat Art can be launched by spinning once it's not something that really take time to use.

I honestly don’t see how Dimitri would be the one landing more hits when there’s a large number of abilities he can’t simply weave through, and certainly can’t block.

Sysiphus have no attack that he can block or dodge so in the end Dimitri would still dish out more damage than he take.

Stat amps get canceled out by Sisyphus’s sheer versatility with explosions and shockwaves both coming out in the same attacks, so they’re about even in that regard.
And if Dimitri turns this into a battle of attrition, Sisyphus has him beat in like, every stamina category ever.

What are Sisyphus stamina feats then ?

Yeah this is definitely an advantage. It’s barely an effective advantage if he’s forced to fight back and use items simultaneously while Sisyphus keeps throwing sun blasts at him almost nonstop.

It only take him like a second to use, he just need to time it well like after slicing off a leg or something.

And piercing weapons have small areas, he’d have to slash Sisyphus repeatedly blood just showering out of him throughout the fight just to hope to have a chance to put him down. And explosions also produce heat, short bursts yes, but constant, which for someone who doesn’t have resistance matters a lot.

It both pierce and slash so he'll still dish out lots of damage. And he can end the fight with one precise thrust on a sensible area like the forehead. + Sisyphus lack the mean to do anything to recover if Dimitri simply chop off a limb to debilitate him.

Then this debate is completely pointless because he isn’t up to date enough, both as a versus thread and for this tourney (if you’re really planning to add allat anytime soon ofc)

I'm not I have a lot of things to do before reworking House Leader I'm just saying it for the person who added Dimitri in the tourney.
If Dee's profile was up to date he'll basically look similar to his rival El.

 

[Jerry59]

The profile described them as phasing intangibility so i went with that but anyway he still have the options to dodge most of them.

They’re comparably skilled, with Sisyphus being the one attacking more rapidly. He can dodge, he absolutely cannot dodge "most" of them.

It is for someone physically stronger, who is used to fighting giant Monster on a weekly basis who are bigger than Sysiphus. And aside of a few most most of his don't look that hard to dodge for someone who can dodge attack that spawn on him.

We’re talking about advantages, not experience. Good for him that he can fight giant monsters and whatever, he’s never fought Sisyphus, who overall has better range and a better power set that giving him more chances to tag him.

Not if he outstats them badly rush them and kill them before they can do anything + do you have an example of Sysiphus dodging anything + the fighting style you say he do in combat aka continously rush straight for the target kinda make it hard to dodge.

He should be physically stronger than the angels yeah, but they are still closer to Sisyphus in stats than to V1. And him "badly rush them" is straight up baseless, like I honestly wonder how you even came up with that. Regardless, it’s true that his fighting style makes dodging harder for him I guess? Idk.

Combat Art can be launched by spinning once it's not something that really take time to use.

They still have wind-ups either way. I did look up a few of them, and it feels like by the time they finish Sisyphus could land two punches or so. It’s not particularly bad but he still needs to play it right.

And aside of a few most most of his don't look that hard to dodge

Sysiphus have no attack that he can block or dodge so in the end Dimitri would still dish out more damage than he take.

I think you meant that Sisyphus has no attacks that Dimitri can’t block or dodge? If so, then I disagree especially when he can tag a machine that can avoid absurd tiers of ricochet shots with minuscule flecks. Unless you want me to do the same thing and take attack animations seriously- that his thrusts would look piss easy to react to or what have you.

What are Sisyphus stamina feats then ?

Energy exertion is self-explanatory, but for pain tolerance and such, the fact that he became a Prime Soul is a huge feat. Prime Souls are manifestations of pure will, souls that amass so much power they can manifest physically without a vessel, essentially refusing to truly die through sheer force of will, kinda. This is an exceedingly rare occurrence, even in a verse filled with people who retain their will and "fierce fury" while enduring extreme punishment, or who tear their own flesh apart out of hatred for their sinner bodies. Additionally bosses in Ultrakill can take hits from V1, including headshots, bullets and drills embedded into or even going through them (having actual style points and damage multiplier for these), all of which cause massive blood loss throughout the fight, to the point where they, again, literally showering out of them. Take any gameplay clips if you want more examples, it’s something you see every single time in your walkthrough thanks to it being a silly boomer shooter.

It only take him like a second to use, he just need to time it well like after slicing off a leg or something.

And V1’s healing comes from absorbing blood and parrying, both are really quick and indefinite ways to refuel. Obviously V1 is quite a lot weaker than both Sisyphus and Dimitri, but the difference in effectiveness is still there. The guy needs a second to pull it out and use it while getting kicked in the face at the same time, with whatever follows up next, and it’s not even a full recovery, and plus limited in uses. I’d even argue it’s better for him to just go to grips against Sisyphus lol.
Btw It’s over a 2x advantage in just AP after amp. It's pretty big. It's not 6x or some ridiculous gap however. I can see a thrust or stab working (as in actually going through him), but a slash- That only works if he’s just standing there, letting the other guy rapidly, or trying to find leverage, to chop his limbs off for who knows how long.

Also for a man like Sisyphus who, quoting his terminal entry, "would gladly lie, cheat or kill" he might just disarm Dimitri or pull something dirty, whatever works.

It both pierce and slash so he'll still dish out lots of damage. And he can end the fight with one precise thrust on a sensible area like the forehead. + Sisyphus lack the mean to do anything to recover if Dimitri simply chop off a limb to debilitate him.

Cuts would deal a lot of damage to peak human ahh endurance. Not to someone who eats the exact same thing in large quantities for breakfast. I already explained above that getting pierced through the head doesn’t stop him from toughing these out, and chopping off limbs is likely not even possible until one of the combatants goes down some other way. Aside from that, he can suspend himself airborne, losing a limb (legs specifically) or two doesn’t necessarily weaken him that much. It’s niche but worth mentioning, I suppose.

 

[Naito-desu]

The debate can continue as normal but for purposes of the tournament, I'll let Sisyphus pass

 

[AnAverageUsername]

The debate can continue as normal but for purposes of the tournament, I'll let Sisyphus pass

One can imagine Sisyphus happy

 

[Jerry59]

Bump

 

[Jerry59]

Bump