Shibai Otsutsuki Universal+ Removel

[Trihexa102]

Then that mean there is contradiction with what the manga said and what the official site said

it's not a contradiction, that's how the site is.

it just links to give an understanding to what is mean't since when someone comes to the site they generally wouldn't understand without examples.

shibai is used as a placeholder or reference point to tell you what a god is in respect to Omnipotence, it's not saying he in particular used Omni to create everything.

 

[KingTempest]

Then that mean there is contradiction with what the manga said and what the official site said

there is none, a lack of naming ≠ inconsistency and they just don't want to accept it

momoshiki said gods made worlds
the website said shibai made this one

that's literally all it says

so if gods made multiple worlds, and shibai made this one, and shibai's corpse is on this planet, why would it not mean that shibai made this one???

 

[Tdjwo]

Damn didn't notice tensions were this high here, can everyone chill out and @KingTempest please refrain from these sorts of threats, if individuals have done stuff wrong or ban worthy then RVR can handle making those decisions not the you as an individual

The rest of yall chill out too


I'm tired boss, just one cup of summaries please

Here
@Godernet

ngl I don't really see an argument that tackles the main points brought up in the previous thread but I'll address some things.

Spoiler: Thoughts on Low 2-C Omnipotence

In the initial thread, the kanji for Momoshiki's statement was directly translated

"In other words, it is the programming language for Genesis, an absolute will that materializes anything and everything, that is Omnipotence." - Momoshiki

Also, this question posed by Momoshiki is pretty interesting for reasons I feel are rarely discussed: "Have you ever contemplated how many times an Otsutsuki who became God may have previously manipulated Humankind's memories?"

So obviously Momo's not saying that previous Otsutsuki Gods flew to Earth specifically to alter their memories, Earth wasn't even a target or known specifically for the wider Otsutsuki Clan to take the energy from over thousands of years into their conquest, so it's not viewed by them as particularly special in any way.

Yet in Momoshiki's eyes, it is very possible that, as an offshoot of an Otsutsuki God, manipulating a larger populace in some way, that Humankind could have been affected in the past, due to the fact that every person's (he didn't even specify human for this one) consciousness is linked via chakra...

...tbh I find it hard to believe he's not talking about the Universe as a whole, especially with the other quote referencing "the genesis of anything and everything", and equating Omnipotence to a programming language of reality, not to mention the adjacent power of Shibai, Prescience, allowing him to see "all possible futures." does add some narrative consistency for these godly powers having meant to be an all encompassing, power that presides over their reality.

In my eyes, this argument that the previous CRT got accepted is pretty solid, all things considered.

Spoiler: Thoughts on the OP

That aside, the argument of Momo just being flowery is pretty weak IMO, especially when comparing it to a Naruto databook.

Databooks are by nature more expressive, whereas in this instance, Momo is being very matter-of-fact about what Omnipotence is to explain to Boruto what this ability is capable of, not to mention Boruto as a series (more specifically, Ikemoto) is usually much more specific about how jutsu work compared to the original series and its databooks, so I don't think the two are comparable.

And Otsutsuki being resistant to Omnipotence's Hax doesn't really contradict or make the statement about its effects on the wider world less viable.

Otsutsuki are themselves practically demigods, with their abilities, Shinjutsu, being defined as miracles or acts of God in the eyes of less mortal species, with their race seemingly being the only one in the Narutoverse we have seen capable of ascending to true Godhood, they are definitely written to be an exception to the rules rather than some kind of inconsistency with Omnipotence's mechanics.

Also, where has it been stated that the Naruto Universe is millions of years old? Or that Isshiki is saying that all Otsutsuki activity has only been going on for thousands of years? It seems to me like he's talking about the custom for the general Otsutsuki populace to scavenge the Universe and grow stronger to eventually become an Otsutsuki God.

Considering being an Otsutsuki God seems to have already been a concept before they set out on this, as it's their whole goal, the concept of an Otsutsuki God has probably existed longer than the actual custom for all Otsutsuki to go around trying to become one.

So yeah, I disagree with this thread.

@KingTempest

Heard that though.

First of all I'm pretty sure with a verse as big as Naruto/Boruto you need 3 staff agreeals for it but since it went through I don't really care too much.

Regarding the OP​

The Otsutsuki do come from a different planet. They aren't predatehistoryesque individuals, they come from another planet, meaning that if that planet predated them, the universe predated them.

The lore of the Otsutsuki is not that they just had ancient gods who created the universe and everything in it. Momoshiki's statement was not referring to any transcendent individuals who existed prior to the birth of the universe. It was referring to those who were TURNED into gods (notice how he blatantly said BECAME). And as we know, the only way you turn into an otsutsuki god is if you eat the fruit of divine trees, said fruit that is rooted from the chakra of planets, said planets (which have to be a diabolical crap ton) which come from the already existing universe.

The entire point of the Otsutsuki will is that they are a race of mortal aliens meant to endlessly evolve until they reach godhood, which contradicts the belief that there were previously existing deities that just created the world. And that could be deduced I guess, but to deduce that from the statements of Momoshiki who is blatantly speaking about those who already exist, that just shows that this is wrong.

The previous OP can't use statements of "people evolved through these existing planets to create these pre-existing planets that predate them", that's just wrong.

I noted that I agree with the OP because the OP made a point. It was horribly written but it was a point.

Even in the previous OP, they blatantly say this

The nature of Shibai is that he was a mortal who became an immortal through the usage of frequent god trees. If he's of the same nature, and it's blatantly said that an otsutsuki became a god, then we can deduce that the same nature being spoken of is the divine nature that was given based on constant evolution based on the pre-existent planets.

TLDR

Otsutsuki gods only exist when Otsutsuki evolve -> Otsutsuki evolve when they eat chakra fruits -> chakra fruits come from planets -> you can't have an otsutsuki god without planets -> an otsutsuki god couldn't have created everything in existence if he needed that existence to become a god -> an otsutsuki god didn't create everything in existence

My personal reasons​

I find the argument of the "Genesis" being one of the weakest tier 2 arguments on the site. And not to diss the previous OP but moreso the line of logic that made it through.

The abuse of the phrase "genesis" and "world" to directly mean that it formed universe seems like a big leap in logic. Like said, it's very akin to when Naruto said the sage created everything but then we saw he was born on earth. It's the same leap of logic

Genesis refers to the origin of something. It's not specifically meant for the birth of the universe no it's meant for the origin of something. Ex Nihilo gets the point out more but even that doesn't work. With that being said, Naruto as a series, and I guess Kishimoto and Ikemoto, are not so vague as to try to say "the world" and mean the further unexplored cosmos. Whenever they feel like it they will emphasize larger bodies, which is why occasionally they use universe and space-time and such.

The databook post talking about their goals and purpose is that they evolve through the need of other planets.

The OP used a needless jump in logic to say "worlds is wrong, it means universe" without a speck of japanese dissection (and the only japanese translations he did use said world), and he tried to use the biblical genesis example of genesis, and to note that there's gods who did a genesis, as a way of saying "Boruto gods pulled a biblical God and made the universe". It's a very flimsy jjk buddhist real world connection point esque argument.

 

[Trihexa102]

there is none, a lack of naming ≠ inconsistency and they just don't want to accept it

momoshiki said gods made worlds
the website said shibai made this one

that's literally all it says

so if gods made multiple worlds, and shibai made this one, and shibai's corpse is on this planet, why would it not mean that shibai made this one???

ignoring what i said then.

big disconnect.

it doesn't name drop shibai because it isn't him.

The site uses shibai to give an understanding of what a god is, not who created everything.

it uses shibai because he has been revealed and shares a similar status.

Like you said yourself there are multiple gods who have existed as stated by Momoshiki himself.

so why would it be shibai, when the intent is to potray it as some other ancient entity before shibai.

 

[KingTempest]

ignoring what i said then.

big disconnect.

it doesn't name drop shibai because it isn't him.

The site uses shibai to give an understanding of what a god is, not who created everything.

it uses shibai because he has been revealed and shares a similar status.

the manga does not say "a god made the world", it says "gods made worlds"
so switch that
"everything" is wrong. it is never said that everything was made by 1 dude. it said multiple worlds were made by multiple gods

on top of that, the site never does this. that's like saying "izanami users stopped the izanagi ones" and they link itachi and danzo. it doesn't make logical sense.

 

[Vietthai96]

there is none, a lack of naming ≠ inconsistency and they just don't want to accept it

momoshiki said gods made worlds
the website said shibai made this one

that's literally all it says

so if gods made multiple worlds, and shibai made this one, and shibai's corpse is on this planet, why would it not mean that shibai made this one???

So, this mean the site will be treated as narrator statement, place it in higher priority than momoshiki statement since momoshiki is a character within the verse unlike narrator which is WoG

 

[Trihexa102]

there is none, a lack of naming ≠ inconsistency and they just don't want to accept it

momoshiki said gods made worlds
the website said shibai made this one

that's literally all it says

so if gods made multiple worlds, and shibai made this one, and shibai's corpse is on this planet, why would it not mean that shibai made this one???

to make it easier.

God> universe.

multiple otsutsuki try to become like that God to gain a power similar to what allowed that god create the universe.

Shibai scales to that God via Omnipotence.

it's pretty simple.

 

[Trihexa102]

So, this mean the site will be treated as narrator statement, place it in higher priority than momoshiki statement since momoshiki is a character within the verse unlike narrator which is WoG

why?

 

[Trihexa102]

the manga does not say "a god made the world", it says "gods made worlds"
so switch that
"everything" is wrong. it is never said that everything was made by 1 dude. it said multiple worlds were made by multiple gods

on top of that, the site never does this. that's like saying "izanami users stopped the izanagi ones" and they link itachi and danzo. it doesn't make logical sense.

It's a mistranslation man lol.

The manga raws says "A God created the world". Not gods or worlds.

Then later Momoshiki talks about Otsutsuki gods evolving to become like that God.

Copy that image where Momoshiki talks about Omnipotence and place in it an translator and see it yourself lol or Ask any translator on site.

 

[KingTempest]

It's a mistranslation man lol.

The manga raws says "A God created the world". Not gods or worlds.

Copy that image where Momoshiki talks about Omnipotence and place in it an translator and see it yourself lol.

it's because japanese doesn't utilize plurals like we do. 神 could be "God" or "Gods", same way 猫 could be "Cat" or "Cats"
We have to look at the context to understand it
Which is why whenever people in here say that there's multiple otsutsuki that became gods it adds onto that context

 

[Trihexa102]

it's because japanese doesn't utilize plurals like we do. 神 could be "God" or "Gods", same way 猫 could be "Cat" or "Cats"
We have to look at the context to understand it
Which is why whenever people in here say that there's multiple otsutsuki that became gods it adds onto that context

no that isn't the reason lmao.

it's because it's just a God who created everything it's talking about.

worlds and others is just Viz extra flair like they usually do.

Momoshiki's talk about otsutsuki gods is different from that.

I remember Godernet translating the raws of a chapter where it's stated shibai possessed every shinjutsu, but Viz said some completely different.

 

[Samlex1234]

So, this mean the site will be treated as narrator statement, place it in higher priority than momoshiki statement since momoshiki is a character within the verse unlike narrator which is WoG

Vietthai96 what is the basis for your disagreement?

 

[KingTempest]

no that isn't the reason lmao.

it's because it's just a God who created everything it's talking about.

worlds and others is just Viz extra flair like they usually do.

it could be both but japanese quite literally does not utilize plurals unless it adds extra context like adjectives and such or few others

if you were to write "a god made the world" and "gods made worlds" you would end up with damn near the same wording

I remember Godernet translating the raws of a chapter where it's stated shibai possessed every shinjutsu, but Viz said some completely different.

Yeah it translated "all sorts" to "all and every", damn near the same thing

あらゆる #sentences - Jisho.org

jisho.org

Like even here we see the same kanji being used for "all things", and also "all kinds", like it's the same it's not that much different.
Viz gets shat on left and right i understand but i see no reason to doubt.

 

[Trihexa102]

it could be both but japanese quite literally does not utilize plurals unless it adds extra context like adjectives and such or few others

if you were to write "a god made the world" and "gods made worlds" you would end up with damn near the same wording

Yeah it translated "all sorts" to "all and every", damn near the same thing

あらゆる #sentences - Jisho.org

jisho.org

Like even here we see the same kanji being used for "all things", and also "all kinds", like it's the same it's not that much different.
Viz gets shat on left and right i understand but i see no reason to doubt.

it's not the same thing though?

it's could not be plural because the raws don't account for that.

It's says "a God created the world".

All sorts is completely different from every.

I can have all sorts of shinjutsu(based on variations) or i can have every shinjutsu in existence(regardless of variation).

Raws matter here a lot.

Nah viz makes a lot of mistakes especially on Boruto manga translation and the shinjutsu part is not just the first and last.

 

[Samlex1234]

no that isn't the reason lmao.

it's because it's just a God who created everything it's talking about.

worlds and others is just Viz extra flair like they usually do.

Momoshiki's talk about otsutsuki gods is different from that.

I remember Godernet translating the raws of a chapter where it's stated shibai possessed every shinjutsu, but Viz said some completely different.

This is where the argument of the opposition is flawed.. Because it seems they arguing just for downgrading by any means at this point.. What does it matter if it is gods or god, worlds or the world. Is the common factor here not creation? So like are they agreeing with creation and then not scale of creation meaning universe because then that a separate argument with its own backing/evidence. This is how you know a forced downgrade, a thread where lores, Wog, simple logic is thrown out just to force a downgrade..

 

[KingTempest]

it's not the same thing though?

it's could not be plural because the raws don't account for that.

It's says "a God created the world".

All sorts is completely different from every.

I can have all sorts of shinjutsu(based on variations) or i can have every shinjutsu in existence(regardless of variation).

Raws matter here a lot.

Nah viz makes a lot of mistakes especially on Boruto manga translation and the shinjutsu part is not just the first and last.

Regardless

Either 2 things.
1. Multiple gods made multiple worlds, and this specific world was made by Shibai through the statement
2. 1 god made this world, and it was Shibai

Since momoshiki literally just found out about this planet like half a year ago, and shibai's corpse is on this planet, it makes sense for shibai regardless.

Whether the translation is right or not, Shibai is to blame regarding this technique.

On top of that, this means we can't prove that other otsutsuki gods had this ability since he learned this ability in his lifetime, and he was special to where he deliberately went out of his way to learn all shinjutsu, and we know that he had it since eida got it from him.

So
A. You can't prove other otsutsuki gods have omnipotence
B. He's the only one confirmed with omnipotence
C. The site hints to him making the world.

 

[Testarossa002]

It's more likely that the statement linked Shibai because of his status as "God" rather than him specifically
Because, even if "world" doesn't mean Universe in this context, we have no evidence for Shibai creating the world (planet), and he most definitely didn't make the world (society)
Besides, he's the only "God" we know of as a character. Makes sense to link him when describing things made by "God"
Anyway
I'm in support of Net's interpretation

 

[Trihexa102]

Regardless

Either 2 things.
1. Multiple gods made multiple worlds, and this specific world was made by Shibai through the statement
2. 1 god made this world, and it was Shibai

Since momoshiki literally just found out about this planet like half a year ago, and shibai's corpse is on this planet, it makes sense for shibai regardless.

Whether the translation is right or not, Shibai is to blame regarding this technique.

On top of that, this means we can't prove that other otsutsuki gods had this ability since he learned this ability in his lifetime, and he was special to where he deliberately went out of his way to learn all shinjutsu, and we know that he had it since eida got it from him.

So
A. You can't prove other otsutsuki gods have omnipotence
B. He's the only one confirmed with omnipotence
C. The site hints to him making the world.

or A god made the world who was not Shibai like i keep saying.

and shibai is being used to draw a parallel to that god to show a similar state via Omnipotence.

You are even proving me right more, Shibai corpse was on the planet because he had to go through that Evolution, the statement for the God who created the world speaks of it in an ancient tone almost biblical(genesis).

Shibai is merely the reference point here, that's all it is. He is being used as a plot device to show how God's are, what gods are? and all sorts of philosophical understanding of what it means to be a god or attain godhood in Naruto as whole , The naruto site is not saying he is the god who made everything, that much should be prettty clear tbh.

No Omnipotence is an ability only an otsutsuki god who becomes Omnipotent and Omniscient god can wield, based on Momoshiki's statement. Every Otsutsuki god had acesses to Omnipotence once they became gods.

He didn't go out of his way to learn all shinjutsu, It's an end state for Gods. After amassing all that power and evolution they gain access to All shinjutsu in existence.

A. answer: its pretty clear other otsutsuki gods had Omnipotence, which is why Momoshiki talks about it's usage on Humanity many times.
B. answer: He is just One of many Gods who achieved that end state and gained Omnipotence( afterall that is the goal of all otsutsuki)
C. answer: The site uses him to illustrate what a god is, not who created the world. completely different things.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Just so y'all know, Naruto website uses machine translation .
Baryon mode upgrade was rejected for this specific reason. Take that Japanese scan and let a translation helper translate it

 

[Samlex1234]

1. You don’t learn shinjustu you gain it and this is tied to evolution.. all Kawaki and Isshiki shinjustu are tied to there eyes same with seringan etc it is in the genetics and it is awakened upon evolution .. (you don’t learn Dojustu).. Omnipotence is the final Shinjustu in fact it is stated to be the very pinnacle of Shinjustu that only a god can wield and you only awaken as a result of complete evolution because after omnipotence there is no Shinjustu left to awaken.

2. Shibai corpse was never stated to be on the planet Momoshiki never even mentioned anything about Shibai corpse. (geez men I swear if this thread gets passed like this with such flawed info it just terrible and sad to see).

3. There is not one statement about shibai creating this world and the funny thing is even that does not matter because Isshiki was the one who had access to Shibai’s body which is another dimension that is Kara’s hideout.

4. Every Otustsuki gods have omnipotence it is literally said to be the Shinjustu of Shinjustu and it requires you being a god to wield. A god separate from shibai used it in the creation of the world like Momoshiki could have just said Shibai if it was him..

5. How can Shibai dying on the planet then use the Omnipotence to create the same planet he was dying on.. what is this reading.

6. Momoshiki knows of omnipotence before he got to earth. He doesn’t know earth even existed until later, but then he knew earth was created by shibai whose body was on earth?

What is this like What are we doing exactly?

 

[KingTempest]

or A god made the world who was not Shibai like i keep saying.

and shibai is being used to draw a parallel to that god to show a similar state via Omnipotence.

You are even proving me right more, Shibai corpse was one the planet because he had to go through that Evolution, the statement for the God who created the world speaks of it in an ancient tone almost biblical(genesis).

Shibai is merely the reference point here, that's all it is. He is being used as a plot device to show how God's are, The show is not saying he is the god who made everyhting.

The same site quite literally also says that the god who made the world went through that evolution
English

An ability said to have been possessed by the Otsutsuki who attained godhood and used to create the current world.

Japanese

かつて「神」となった大筒木が、今ある世界を創る際に用いたとされる術。
あらゆる意思を具現化する究極の力。

No Omnipotence is an ability only an otsutsuki god who becomes Omnipotent and Omniscient god can wield, based on Momoshiki's statement. Every Otsutsuki god had acesses to Omnipotence once they became gods.

Shibai had this ability when he was alive. Which is why Eida got it from his DNA. If it wasn't in him when he was alive, Eida wouldn't have gotten it.

He didn't go out of his way to learn all shinjutsu, It's an end state for Gods. After amassing all that power and evolution they gain access to All shinjutsu in existence.

From the same exact section you were speaking about referring Godernet's thread.

(かつて数多の星の生命を喰らい尽くし Katsute amata no hoshi no inochi o kuraitsukusi)
=
They once devoured the life of numerous planets

(あらゆる「神術」を身につけ「神」と呼ばれるまでになった Arayuru [Shinjutsu] o mi ni tsuke [Kami] to yobareru made ni natta)
=
They have learned all and every "Shinjutsu" and have been called a "god."

Viz

We currently have Shibai knowing all shinjutsu while he was alive.

These are abilities he knew in his life, as this was deduced prior to the theory of his evolution.
Shinjutsu is not only given to gods, which is why Kama, the ability to resurrect after death, is on all otsutsuki, and isshiki isn't a god but he has these as well

A. answer: its pretty clear other otsutsuki gods had Omnipotence, which is why Momoshiki talks about it's usage on Humanity many times.
B. answer: He is just One of many Gods who achieved that end state and gained Omnipotence( afterall that is the goal of all otsutsuki)
C. answer: The site uses him to illustrate what a god is, not who created the world. completely different things.

A. Understandable
B. True
C. Wrong

 

[KingTempest]

It's more likely that the statement linked Shibai because of his status as "God" rather than him specifically
Because, even if "world" doesn't mean Universe in this context, we have no evidence for Shibai creating the world (planet), and he most definitely didn't make the world (society)

Or he used omnipotence on the world and created "the world as we know it" like frequently stated

 

[Samlex1234]

Shibai did not become a god after decarding his body… The manga literally says he reached godhood after multiple karmic cycle and evolutions… you need a body to continually go through that process and he only discarded his physical body when he was done.. so the dna of the body still consistent of abilities that the only reason the cyborg can awaken it it not because he learned them but because he acquired them.. It not knowledge it evolution, all Otsutsuki don’t have all shinjustu, eg Momoshiki don’t have some Shinjustu of Isshiki because they are tied to Genetics eg Kokugan.. which Shibai has btw. Karma is the only common one that they all possess that we currently know of.

 

[Trihexa102]

The same site quite literally also says that the god who made the world went through that evolution
English

Japanese


Shibai had this ability when he was alive. Which is why Eida got it from his DNA. If it wasn't in him when he was alive, Eida wouldn't have gotten it.

From the same exact section you were speaking about referring Godernet's thread.

Viz

We currently have Shibai knowing all shinjutsu while he was alive.

These are abilities he knew in his life, as this was deduced prior to the theory of his evolution.
Shinjutsu is not only given to gods, which is why Kama, the ability to resurrect after death, is on all otsutsuki, and isshiki isn't a god but he has these as well

A. Understandable
B. True
C. Wrong

Again of which is said there are multiple gods who achieved godhood as stated by Momoshiki.
Shibai was not the First nor the Last?

「神」が世界を創る過程で用いたとされるTranslation: "It is said to have been used by 'God' in the process of creating the world."

言わば「創世」のためのプログラミング言語Translation: "In other words, a programming language for 'Creation' (Genesis)."

何もかもを具現化する絶対の意思Translation: "The absolute will to materialize anything and everything."

Clearly this is talking about a cryptic god NOT shibai, or else Momoshiki or the Narrative on the Naruto site can just name drop shibai.


Shinjutsu is not gained from learning, it's from Evolution. It's tied to them devouring worlds and compressing all that energy and data to unlock and awaken Shinjutsu. Eida possess a shinjutsu, because she was implanted with a Shibai's's cells.

Shinjutsu is only given to Otsutsuki, let me put it this way. ALL otsutsuki have the Potential to be gods. All the otsutsuki we have seen thus far have consumed worlds before which allows them evolve, Karma is a power was gotten from Evolution as well.

Shinjutsu is referred to as Special abilities of the Otsutsuki clan, so they are powers mainly used by The otsutsuki clan themselves. Then there is the Shinjutsu of shinjutsu that can only be used by an Otsutsuki god-Omnipotence.

A. glad we agree.
B. glad we agree here as well.
C. it's not wrong, based on my explanation's and what is being said you should understand what we are trying to say now. Shibai is used as an illustration of what a god is, think of it like there being a page about Nika or Soul king and it links to Luffy or Yhwach because they share a similar status which can be used to convey to readers. It's not saying Shibai himself is the One that created everything, it's just a placeholder to tell you what a god is in relation to Omnipotence, since shibai is the only one we know of that's has been substantiated on so far.

 

[KingTempest]

Shibai did not become a god after decarding his body… The manga literally says he reached godhood after multiple karmic cycle and evolutions… you need a body to continually go through that process and he only discarded his physical body when he was done.. so the dna of the body still consistent of abilities that the only reason the cyborg can awaken it it not because he learned them but because he acquired them.. It not knowledge it evolution, all Otsutsuki don’t have all shinjustu, eg Momoshiki don’t have some Shinjustu of Isshiki because they are tied to Genetics eg Kokugan.. which Shibai has btw. Karma is the only common one that they all possess that we currently know of.

1. Nobody said all Otsutsuki have all Shinjutsu. I said all otsutsuki have shinjutsu. Different things.
2. Nobody said Shibai became a god after discarding his body. The manga says he became a god, then noted that his ascension to godhood also led to him not needing his body. The wiki and Shibai's profile both note and acknowledge that his ascension to godhood = his discarding of his body.
3. Genetic potential is incorrect when every source in the manga blatantly speak of Shibai learning all shinjutsu and the wiki currently accepts that shibai had all shinjutsu in his lifetime

 

[KingTempest]

Again of which is said there are multiple gods who achieved godhood as stated by Momoshiki.
Shibai was not the First nor the Last?

Your entire point was that "Shibai couldn't have been the god who did it because he ascended", but the god who did it is stated to have ascended.

Clearly this is talking about a cryptic god NOT shibai, or else Momoshiki or the Narrative on the Naruto site can just name drop shibai.

Momoshiki has no reason to know specifically. We don't know Momoshiki's relationship with shibai.
The naruto site didn't need to name drop shibai. They linked him instead.
It's not talking about a cryptic god because the manga says that Shibai's alias was "god". He was called a god.
For what we know, the site, the manga, and the databooks, never says that there are multiple beings who became gods.
It always talks about 1 being who became a god, and that's Shibai.
Shibai is the only character in existence who became a god. So when they say "a god", they're referring to him.
Why do you think he's the only "god" spoken of? Why not name drop the others?
So there's an assumption that there's multiple gods, which, if my translation is wrong, is nipped in the bud.
Which means shibai is the only known character who this happened to.

Shinjutsu is not gained from learning, it's from Evolution. It's tied to them devouring worlds and compressing all that energy and data to unlock and awaken Shinjutsu. Eida possess a shinjutsu, because she was implanted with a Shibai's's cells.

I literally just sent you the scan that verbally stated that Shibai learned all Shinjutsu. You are in denial.

Shinjutsu is only given to Otsutsuki, let me put it this way. ALL otsutsuki have the Potential to be gods. All the otsutsuki we have seen thus far have consumed worlds before which allows them evolve, Karma is a power was gotten from Evolution as well.

You cannot prove in any capacity that Karma is a power given from evolution.

Shinjutsu is referred to as Special abilities of the Otsutsuki clan, so they are powers mainly used by The otsutsuki clan themselves. Then there is the Shinjutsu of shinjutsu that can only be used by an Otsutsuki god-Omnipotence.

If only the otsutsuki god could use it, then how could Eida use it?

A. glad we agree.
B. glad we agree here as well.
C. it's not wrong, based on my explanation's and what is being said you should understand what we are trying to say now. Shibai is used as an illustration of what a god is, think of it like there being a page about Nika or Soul king and it links to Luffy or Yhwach because they share a similar status which can be used to convey to readers. It's not saying Shibai himself is the One that created everything, it's just a placeholder to tell you what a god is in relation to Omnipotence, since shibai is the only one we know of that's has been substantiated on so far.

These are bad examples. Because they would just link Nika or Adnyeus. There is no other otsutsuki god known about except Shibai to this day, so even saying there are others is headcanon.

 

[Samlex1234]

1. Nobody said all Otsutsuki have all Shinjutsu. I said all otsutsuki have shinjutsu. Different things.
2. Nobody said Shibai became a god after discarding his body. The manga says he became a god, then noted that his ascension to godhood also led to him not needing his body. The wiki and Shibai's profile both note and acknowledge that his ascension to godhood = his discarding of his body.
3. Genetic potential is incorrect when every source in the manga blatantly speak of Shibai learning all shinjutsu and the wiki currently accepts that shibai had all shinjutsu in his lifetime

1. Okay why don’t they all have all Shinjustu then what is stopping them if they have the knowledge of it.. Eg Momoshiki has a detailed knowledge of all shinjustu according to him.. why does he not have all of them.

2. He can’t discard his body if he has not overcome death that is impossible.. if that was the case every Otsutsuki would just be able to ascend by just discarding there body. But instead he reached godhood and then after that discarded his body. In fact that was the only reason he was able to do so.. hIs acension to godhood is not tied to discarding his body noting in the source material points to that.. the wiki wording is a mistake which we are looking to change but just got busy and left.

3. You won’t find that info, of shibai learning all Shinjustu because you don’t learn them, you acquire them by awakening them. Shibai only had all shinjustu in his lifetime because he completed evolution in his lifetime that is not a rocket science.. he reached the pinnacle of evolution so he has every possible abilities to have. How would you say genetics is not relevant when that is the only reason that some of the cyborgs could awaken the Shinjustu they got from Shibai cells? If it is learnt wouldn’t they have to learn it why would Amado plant Shibai’s cells in hope the awaken them? Key word awaken.

Bro I suggest you take your time and actually go through the story and read it and not just to downgrade it but understand.. because fans that follow the manga can easily spot out the contradictions in your arguments it shows you are not really following the story.

 

[KingTempest]

1. Okay why don’t they all have all Shinjustu then what is stopping them if they have the knowledge of it.. Eg Momoshiki has a detailed knowledge of all shinjustu according to him.. why does he not have all of them.

Cause they aren't Shibai.

2. He can’t discard his body if he has not overcome death that is impossible.. if that was the case every Otsutsuki would just be able to ascend by just discarding there body. But instead he reached godhood and then after that discarded his body. In fact that was the only reason he was able to do so.. hIs acension to godhood is not tied to discarding his body noting in the source material points to that.. the wiki wording is a mistake which we are looking to change but just got busy and left.

I know you're not dumb. You just choose to not read my sentences.
Shibai became a god and discarded his body at the same time. It's actually headcanon that he discarded his body, all we know is that he's not in this dimension.
You're literally arguing with a wall.

3. You won’t find that info, of shibai learning all Shinjustu because you don’t learn them, you acquire them by awakening them. Shibai only had all shinjustu in his lifetime because he completed evolution in his lifetime that is not a rocket science.. he reached the pinnacle of evolution so he has every possible abilities to have. How would you say genetics is not relevant when that is the only reason that some of the cyborgs could awaken the Shinjustu they got from Shibai cells? If it is learnt wouldn’t they have to learn it why would Amado plant Shibai’s cells in hope the awaken them? Key word awaken.

I literally sent the scan where it says Shibai learned all shinjutsu. Stop telling me "you can't learn all shinjutsu", when the translation that was shoved down my throat today says "Shibai learned all shinjutsu".

Bro I suggest you take your time and actually go through the story and read it and not just to downgrade it but understand.. because fans that follow the manga can easily spot out the contradictions in your arguments it shows you are not really following the story.

Do the same but with my messages.

 

[KingTempest]

The scan translated about Shibai literally says

(あらゆる「神術」を身につけ「神」と呼ばれるまでになった Arayuru [Shinjutsu] o mi ni tsuke [Kami] to yobareru made ni natta)
=
They have learned all and every "Shinjutsu" and have been called a "god."

Stop telling me that he didn't learn the shinjutsu.

 

[Samlex1234]

Cause they aren't Shibai.

I know you're not dumb. You just choose to not read my sentences.
Shibai became a god and discarded his body at the same time. It's actually headcanon that he discarded his body, all we know is that he's not in this dimension.
You're literally arguing with a wall.

I literally sent the scan where it says Shibai learned all shinjutsu. Stop telling me "you can't learn all shinjutsu", when the translation that was shoved down my throat today says "Shibai learned all shinjutsu".

Do the same but with my messages.

You did not send any scan of shibai learning shinjustu… geezzz stop forcing lore that contradictory on us man..

 

[KingTempest]

You did not send any scan of shibai learning shinjustu… geezzz stop forcing lore that contradictory on us man..

Do I need to put it in bold?

(かつて数多の星の生命を喰らい尽くし Katsute amata no hoshi no inochi o kuraitsukusi)
=
They once devoured the life of numerous planets


(あらゆる「神術」を身につけ「神」と呼ばれるまでになった Arayuru [Shinjutsu] o mi ni tsuke [Kami] to yobareru made ni natta)
=
They have learned all and every "Shinjutsu" and has been called a "god"


(太古の大筒木だ Taiko no Ōtsutsuki da)
=
They're an ancient Otsutsuki

 

[Samlex1234]

Do I need to put it in bold?

Read it from the top to the bottom in context and stop forcing your own interpretation to it.

 

[KingTempest]

Read it from the top to the bottom in context and stop forcing your own interpretation to it.

Do you know who it is referring to?

Shibai Otsutsuki.

 

[KingTempest]

We done arguing about things we already know?

 

[Samlex1234]

Do you know who it is referring to?

Shibai Otsutsuki.

Yes I know .. but it’s in context, (The ohtsukuki who devoured countless planets) and ( Acquired/mastered all sorts of Shinjustu)

That was only possible because of evolution he was constantly devouring planets and evolve and masters the abilities he gained.. all Otsutsuki have the same physiology pretty much .. they have basic abilities and they are abilities that are tied to evolution eg Kokugan which Momoshiki or Kaguya dont have.. Shibai on the other hand was able to evolve gaining all the needed genetics.

 

[Samlex1234]

Yes I know .. but it’s in context, (The ohtsukuki who devoured countless planets) and ( Acquired/mastered all sorts of Shinjustu)

That was only possible because of evolution he was constantly devouring planets and evolve and masters the abilities he gained.. all Otsutsuki have the same physiology pretty much .. they have basic abilities and they are abilities that are tied to evolution eg Kokugan which Momoshiki or Kaguya do have.. Shibai on the other hand was able to evolve gaining all the needed genetics.

Not only that but then Momoshiki made us understand that all Otsutsuki gods are capable of using omnipotence.. even implying they have done so in the past to humans.

 

[Richardo908]

Cause they aren't Shibai.

I know you're not dumb. You just choose to not read my sentences.
Shibai became a god and discarded his body at the same time. It's actually headcanon that he discarded his body, all we know is that he's not in this dimension.
You're literally arguing with a wall.

I literally sent the scan where it says Shibai learned all shinjutsu. Stop telling me "you can't learn all shinjutsu", when the translation that was shoved down my throat today says "Shibai learned all shinjutsu".

Do the same but with my messages.

You don't learn shinjutsu bro shinjutsu is not something you acquire by training or doing pushups you acquire them. Have you even read the story

 

[Trihexa102]

Your entire point was that "Shibai couldn't have been the god who did it because he ascended", but the god who did it is stated to have ascended.

Momoshiki has no reason to know specifically. We don't know Momoshiki's relationship with shibai.
The naruto site didn't need to name drop shibai. They linked him instead.
It's not talking about a cryptic god because the manga says that Shibai's alias was "god". He was called a god.
For what we know, the site, the manga, and the databooks, never says that there are multiple beings who became gods.
It always talks about 1 being who became a god, and that's Shibai.
Shibai is the only character in existence who became a god. So when they say "a god", they're referring to him.
Why do you think he's the only "god" spoken of? Why not name drop the others?
So there's an assumption that there's multiple gods, which, if my translation is wrong, is nipped in the bud.
Which means shibai is the only known character who this happened to.

I literally just sent you the scan that verbally stated that Shibai learned all Shinjutsu. You are in denial.

You cannot prove in any capacity that Karma is a power given from evolution.


If only the otsutsuki god could use it, then how could Eida use it?

These are bad examples. Because they would just link Nika or Adnyeus. There is no other otsutsuki god known about except Shibai to this day, so even saying there are others is headcanon.

Isshiki literally says that code's karma is defective right now, but when he consumes a chakra fruit he would become a true otsutsuki through evolution(and his karma would become perfected or complete).

All otsutsuki's power came about from Evolution not learning lmao.

Amenominaka came from Kaguya's evolution from consuming the chakra fruit.

Again you keep doing that thing where you ignore everything am telling you? we both know shibai is not the only god in existence. we just agreed on that.

Momoshiki talks about there being Multiple of them because it's an Otsutsuki's end goal, it's something that has happened and will keep happening. That is their clan's way.

You can't learn shinjutsu lol, Momoshiki nor Isshiki can just learn Kaguya's amenominaka. it's a biological/evolution based thing man.

Shibai is linked in there to explain what a god is NOT to say he is the one who created everything. This should be pretty clear tbh.

Eida can't use Omnipotence or Wield it that is the point. it's happens subconsciously and fulfills her wishes, she has zero control over it.

Those are good examples, Nika (luffy can be used to show a similarity because they share a similar status), same with Yhwach(he literally absorbed SK and became the SK).

There are other otsutsuki gods man, we have said this already. Momoshiki talks about them having manipulated Humanity many times thoughout History.

 

[KingTempest]

Yes I know .. but it’s in context, (The ohtsukuki who devoured countless planets) and ( Acquired/mastered all sorts of Shinjustu)

That was only possible because of evolution he was constantly devouring planets and evolve and masters the abilities he gained.. all Otsutsuki have the same physiology pretty much .. they have basic abilities and they are abilities that are tied to evolution eg Kokugan which Momoshiki or Kaguya do have.. Shibai on the other hand was able to evolve gaining all the needed genetics.

Not only that but then Momoshiki made us understand that all Otsutsuki gods are capable of using omnipotence.. even implying they have done so in the past to humans.

This point is full of headcanon.

Never is it stated in any source that more chakra fruits give you more shinjutsu. That's headcanon in itself.
Never is it stated that he gained these abilities through the consumption of chakra fruits. That's headcanon in itself.
It says that he learned them in his life. I've grabbed the scans saying that he learned them over and over and yall look at it and throw it in my face as if i never said it.

Shibai is not solely known for becoming a god. He was known because he was a master of many shinjutsu, and he was also called a god.
He is the Sarutobi of the Otsutsuki.

Isshiki literally says that code's karma is defective right now, but when he consumes a chakra fruit he would become a true otsutsuki through evolution(and his karma would become perfected or complete).

Because the dude is literally a human turning into a otsutsuki through evolving.

All otsutsuki's power came about from Evolution not learning lmao.

You say this after I repeatedly send the scan saying he learned all of them.

Amenominaka came from Kaguya's evolution from consuming the chakra fruit.

Examples of characters who learn Shinjutsu through evolution ≠ all Shinjutsu is learned through evolution

Again you keep doing that thing where you ignore everything am telling you? we both know shibai is not the only god in existence. we just agreed on that.

Momoshiki talks about there being Multiple of them because it's an Otsutsuki's end goal, it's something that has happened and will keep happening. That is their clan's way.

I'm doing it because I'm showing yall exactly how I feel when yall up and read my words then just flip instantly over.

You can't learn shinjutsu lol, Momoshiki nor Isshiki can just learn Kaguya's amenominaka. it's a biological/evolution based thing man.

Certain people not being able to learn other peoples' shinjutsu ≠ all shinjutsu is unlearnable.

Shibai is linked in there to explain what a god is NOT to say he is the one who created everything. This should be pretty clear tbh.

It isn't clear

Eida can't use Omnipotence or Wield it that is the point. it's happens subconsciously and fulfills her wishes, she has zero control over it.

She can't control it, but she can wield it. 2 different things.

Those are good examples, Nika (luffy can be used to show a similarity because they share a similar status), same with Yhwach(he literally absorbed SK and became the SK).

Nika is the name of a person and Luffy adopted his powers, which is why Nika has his own sections on every site. The Soul King is a title and very few/none call Yhwach by that title.

There are other otsutsuki gods man, we have said this already. Momoshiki talks about them having manipulated Humanity many times thoughout History.

It says that 1 dude manipulated them many times, not many dudes manipulated them many times.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

this gotta be one of the nastiest cases of agenda blinding reading comprehension, goons not even hiding it anymore

thank you.
shit, it even LINKS to Shibai.
yeah it's saying shibai himself did that

It's linking to him because he's the only point of reference for Otsutsuki Gods, it's the only other page that drops some info regarding the process of becoming one, so for those seeking more info about the O.G. would be redirected to the only page that can provide more info, this by itself isn't enough to claim Shibai did anything. Also are you gonna hyperfixate on the actions of a staff running the website instead of using common sense?

the text in the MANGA, never mentions anyone specific, it just says one O.G. did this and left it at that, you are forcefully misreading it

---

Then that mean there is contradiction with what the manga said and what the official site said

there isn't, the website never drops even a single statement that tells you shibai did this, it links to his page because he is the sole reference of Otsutsuki Gods across canon Boruto Media

if shibai not being stated to poof away a space time continuum in the most explicit manner isn't enough to warrant an upgrade then this flimsy reasoning of using a website's staff edits is equally not enough to make a conclusive contradiction which is also settled by common sense

---

So, this mean the site will be treated as narrator statement, place it in higher priority than momoshiki statement since momoshiki is a character within the verse unlike narrator which is WoG

narrator statement MY ASS lmao
no such statement was ever once dropped