Shibai Otsutsuki Universal+ Removel

[KingTempest]

If you look at the last panel you see it's only circling around it because it's flying away from earth.
Every panel that shows it above humans shows it very close to the ground, only few dozen meters.

cause it starts from the ground then grows throughout the planet dude, that's why the initial beam starts off from 1 SIDE OF THE PLANET and comes out through THE OTHER SIDE without going into space

Yeah exactly. If it goes from slow enough for offguard civilians to percieve to thousands of kilometers around earth I think that's not too crazy to say

it's not that it's slow cause they can perceive it, it's that it's not that fast to begin with

Iirc Code specifically states his dimension is impossible to access without spacetime ninjutsu which should mean it's spatially separate

half of the dimensions inverse say the same thing yet they're accepted as in the same space just far as shit so i'm not so sure

Im not sure what this question is supposed to entail BTW. What's your concern about this?

If it's saying she can see things in the world then how does she get access to other worlds through it unless they're still spatially in the same verse?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

If it's saying she can see things in the world then how does she get access to other worlds through it unless they're still spatially in the same verse?

Ahhh. Well, would this not go back into the whole "take world into context" situation? I always believed the Senrigan just views the whole Naruto cosmology rather than being limited to just literally one world.

And all of us here should know "world" is able to be meant on a cosmological scale with context.

 

[DavidTPPM]

cause it starts from the ground then grows throughout the planet dude, that's why the initial beam starts off from 1 SIDE OF THE PLANET and comes out through THE OTHER SIDE without going into space

Yeah and THEN it goes to space after it circled the planet.

it's not that it's slow cause they can perceive it, it's that it's not that fast to begin with

We're talking about something that travels at least around thousands of times faster than sound, unless you think Ada was floating in the air for several minutes.
That sure as hell is too fast for offguard civilians

half of the dimensions inverse say the same thing

Do they? I don't remember any saying so.

yet they're accepted as in the same space just far as shit so i'm not so sure

Are they? I never really cared about the dimensions so idk how we interpret it rn.

 

[KingTempest]

Ahhh. Well, would this not go back into the whole "take world into context" situation? I always believed the Senrigan just views the whole Naruto cosmology rather than being limited to just literally one world.

And all of us here should know "world" is able to be meant on a cosmological scale with context.

this seems like a cop out
she says she can basically put her conscious in any place in the world and basically see/hear events throughout the world i do not think it's intending to mean throughout an entire cosmology

Yeah and THEN it goes to space after it circled the planet.

We're talking about something that travels at least around thousands of times faster than sound, unless you think Ada was floating in the air for several minutes.
That sure as hell is too fast for offguard civilians

So why in the hell would she stand on 1 end of the planet, shoot a beam that goes through the planet. in both directions, but the beam going to space never leaves the atmosphere while the beam going everywhere else does?

Do they? I don't remember any saying so.

In like every place it's a headache to grab

Are they? I never really cared about the dimensions so idk how we interpret it rn.

The topic we all know and love (Naruto CRT)

Listen y'all, I know 90% of you are tired of this topic, and frankly, I am too. However, after having a long, long, long discussion about this off-site, a few conclusions have been drawn about this topic that make it honestly far more interesting but also far more nuanced than how we've handled...

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[ProfessorKukui4Life]

this seems like a cop out
she says she can basically put her conscious in any place in the world and basically see/hear events throughout the world i do not think it's intending to mean throughout an entire cosmology

I mean, the fact she could view the fight between Ishiki & Boruto/Sasuke/Naruto & Kawaki, and could view Isshiki's soul speaking with Code, both of which happened in different dimensions, should more than suggest the Senrigan lets her view the whole cosmology.

The only way I see for this to become a genuine concern is if the dimensions in Naruto don't exist outside the main universe. But that's a different discussion all together from this.

 

[DavidTPPM]

So why in the hell would she stand on 1 end of the planet, shoot a beam that goes through the planet. in both directions, but the beam going to space never leaves the atmosphere while the beam going everywhere else does?

Are you asking why would she do something like that from a logical standpoint? Because Ada is not in control whatsoever here.

In like every place it's a headache to grab

I honestly don't remember any. Kaguya calls them "hers" but not inaccessible without stn.
Momoshiki doesn't really say anything about them.
Jigen just says Konoha doesn't exist there I think?

The topic we all know and love (Naruto CRT)

Listen y'all, I know 90% of you are tired of this topic, and frankly, I am too. However, after having a long, long, long discussion about this off-site, a few conclusions have been drawn about this topic that make it honestly far more interesting but also far more nuanced than how we've handled...

vsbattles.com

That's not accepted as far as I understand and there was quite a lot of pushback.
And even then it doesn't say all dimensions exist within the same universe.

Also, assuming this is true, for it to reach a nearby solar system would still mean the beam has to be FTL+ which still goes against the civilians reacting to it. So even under this interpretation it's accelerating

 

[KingTempest]

I mean, the fact she could view the fight between Ishiki & Boruto/Sasuke/Naruto & Kawaki, and could view Isshiki's soul speaking with Code, both of which happened in different dimensions, should more than suggest the Senrigan lets her view the whole cosmology.

The only way I see for this to become a genuine concern is if the dimensions in Naruto don't exist outside the main universe. But that's a different discussion all together from this.

this is currently the accepted stance of the wiki

Are you asking why would she do something like that from a logical standpoint? Because Ada is not in control whatsoever here.

i'm saying the beams shown don't do so. the beams start on 1 surface and end on the other, they don't spread throughout the universe unless you think it only shot down in 1 direction

I honestly don't remember any. Kaguya calls them "hers" but not inaccessible without stn.
Momoshiki doesn't really say anything about them.
Jigen just says Konoha doesn't exist there I think?

one of em says "it's impossible to go back to the original dimension from here with your own strength", kaguya's

That's not accepted as far as I understand and there was quite a lot of pushback.
And even then it doesn't say all dimensions exist within the same universe.

Quite literally every single staff member agreed to it

Also, assuming this is true, for it to reach a nearby solar system would still mean the beam has to be FTL+ which still goes against the civilians reacting to it. So even under this interpretation it's accelerating

unless it didn't reach a nearby solar system???

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

this is currently the accepted stance of the wiki

Oh. Ive barely been active here for quite a while until...recently, so I can't really comment much on this part.

 

[KingTempest]

Oh. Ive barely been active here for quite a while until...recently, so I can't really comment much on this part.

you're fine

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I really woke up the most explicitly bad faith arguments ever lmfao, no one says these things unless they're genuinely coping to the utter maximum

i hope yall know people can have interdimensional range without having over universal range.

naruto can hit the limbo clones but he's not hitting somebody on the other side of the planet

limbo is an outlier to how dimensions work in the naruto franchise, usually space times and different dimensions run based on specific coordinates, if said coordinates are changed they cannot be discovered (this has happened in the series)
limbo on the other hand exists within the same coordinates just in a different overlapping plane

the Omnipotence feat is beyond universal AND interdimensional for crossing a universal distance and reaching into those other dimensions

You acting as if creating dimensions is a casual feat kaguya needs prep and time. Brouto hypes up Uzuhiko using planet level energy against code who scales above kaguya. If narratively Brouto high tiers are above solar system level attacks Uzuhiko which uses the planet's forces shouldn't be a threat at all. Amado hypes up shibai being able to create storms and the otsutsuki being able to manipulate life/death. When all these feats have done by characters in OG Naruto

self refuting argument, if they hype things up even if the characters already exceed clearly it's not meant to serve as a cap, all it does is make someone seem impressive, someone with multiversal striking strength isn't as special as someone who can one tap a planet into inexistence

OR since it traveled throughout a planet where Code has a bunch of portals, it would go through there???

good luck proving this shit because you won't be able to

On top of that, if Omnipotence is the "shinjutsu of shinjutsu" hyped up in this caliber, would it stand to reason that it could bypass all other shinjutsu barriers, including some portals

then it can also bypass the need for portals, your own argument is hitting your foot

And for interstellar travel of that caliber it'd literally take centuries at that speed

it accelerated there you go, took a few panels to exit the town sized area and then shown less panels being required to exit the whole planet, that by itself is evidence for acceleration, not that it is required

Plus, it seems to have stopped when it reached the outskirts of the planet.

you'll never prove this, something shown going outwards and having later confirmations of affecting other dimensions is not proof of this

In like every place it's a headache to grab

The topic we all know and love (Naruto CRT)

Listen y'all, I know 90% of you are tired of this topic, and frankly, I am too. However, after having a long, long, long discussion about this off-site, a few conclusions have been drawn about this topic that make it honestly far more interesting but also far more nuanced than how we've handled...

vsbattles.com

half of the dimensions inverse say the same thing yet they're accepted as in the same space just far as shit so i'm not so sure

this shit was never accepted lmfao, your thread got rejected, Net ditched his own thread after getting debunked in replies

 

[KingTempest]

Oh. Ive barely been active here for quite a while until...recently, so I can't really comment much on this part.

edit: nevermind the OP didn't fully implement it

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Yeah that thread was def rejected hard from what I see

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah that thread was def rejected hard from what I see

all staff agreed with it until the end and the OP was too busy to argue in defense of it so he paused it, it was just 2:2

 

[DavidTPPM]

i'm saying the beams shown don't do so. the beams start on 1 surface and end on the other, they don't spread throughout the universe unless you think it only shot down in 1 direction

I'm honestly a bit confused on what you mean here.
We don't see the beam stop. We only see it fly away from earth.

one of em says "it's impossible to go back to the original dimension from here with your own strength", kaguya's

I don’t remember that but that's not the same as it being completely inaccessible without stn.
That just means that specific character doesn't have the travel capabilities necessary.

Quite literally every single staff member agreed to it

It had 2 approvals and 2 rejections and 1 neutral stance.
Quite far from "every staff member" agreeing.

unless it didn't reach a nearby solar system???

What? Are you suggesting Codes dimension is in the same solar system as earth?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

all staff agreed with it until the end and the OP was too busy to argue in defense of it so he paused it, it was just 2:2

not what happened, slayer and you were the only staff in agreement, tracer and nierre picked neutral, net at the time wasn't staff

nierre later disagreed and damage (of all people) also came in with disagreement so nah that's painting a false image of what happened

 

[KingTempest]

I'm honestly a bit confused on what you mean here.
We don't see the beam stop. We only see it fly away from earth.

 

[KingogKings777]

On top of that, I have a gripe.

Eida's senrigan is stated to be able to see all things inside of the world.
How can she see in the Kara dimension?

Didn't she also see the ten tails hideout where Code was getting that speech from Isshiki etc or is that the Kara dimension?

 

[DavidTPPM]

What about that?

 

[KingTempest]

Didn't she also see the ten tails hideout where Code was getting that speech from Isshiki etc or is that the Kara dimension?

it is the kara dimension

 

[karo_senpaii]

All of these space times have different coordinates. To the points where even if you've used space time ninjutsu to go there like Sasuke, jigen could still change the coordinates of the space to make it impossible for him to go back there. So saying they are just planets somewhere out there in the same universe doesn't make anything.

It's either they are all just different space times or are separate sub spaces embedded in the main universe

 

[ichimojii]

not what happened, slayer and you were the only staff in agreement, tracer and nierre picked neutral, net at the time wasn't staff

nierre later disagreed and damage (of all people) also came in with disagreement so nah that's painting a false image of what happened

When did damage disagree?

 

[ichimojii]

Ahhh. Well, would this not go back into the whole "take world into context" situation? I always believed the Senrigan just views the whole Naruto cosmology rather than being limited to just literally one world.

And all of us here should know "world" is able to be meant on a cosmological scale with context.

I don't think it views the whole cosmology. She can't see things on a spiritual plane like souls or pure lands. other then that she can see anything in the universe. However not all of it at the same time.
Here

 

[Worthless]

The fact that it got accepted with BS reasoning like "Genesis" or statement about the world, despite there being literally no other context whatsoever regarding those, is absolutely baffling. It’s like giving OPM’s God a universal rating just because he’s called "God" and for casually giving a 4-A rating on Garou lmfao

 

[karo_senpaii]

The fact that it got accepted with BS reasoning like "Genesis" or statement about the world, despite there being literally no other context whatsoever regarding those, is absolutely baffling. It’s like giving OPM’s God a universal rating just because he’s called "God" and for casually giving a 4-A rating on Garou lmfao

No? It's like blast meeting god and saying "he has power more than anything I've ever seen, he could destroy the world". We would be more inclined to believe he's talking about the universe because blast himself has witnessed cosmic feats and he himself is in cosmic ranges.

Also stop mentioning opm in a Naruto thread

 

[Worthless]

No? It's like blast meeting god and saying "he has power more than anything I've ever seen, he could destroy the world". We would be more inclined to believe he's talking about the universe because blast himself has witnessed cosmic feats and he himself is in cosmic ranges.

Also stop mentioning opm in a Naruto thread

In what universe is that logic acceptable? lmfao. And that’s a terrible example, because even though SS² has the capability to wipe out countless stars, he only mentioned the fact that it can destroy Earth. All he cares about is Earth.

 

[karo_senpaii]

In what universe is that logic acceptable? lmfao. And that’s a terrible example, because even though SS² has the capability to wipe out countless stars, he only mentioned the fact that it can destroy Earth. All he cares about is Earth.

In the universe that interpreting the word "world" is based on context?
It's not a terrible example because when he mentioned the fact that it can destroy earth, he didn't say world, he verbatim said earth.

Funny how you mention bad examples when yours is horrendous.
Like slapping uni on opm God coz he gave garou 4a is not even remotely the same thing. On here is stated to create the world so he has grounds for a universal interpretation of it. All we have to do is put context clues together. Opm God has zero such statements. Don't bring your horrendous opm discussion takes here

 

[Samlex1234]

In what universe is that logic acceptable? lmfao. And that’s a terrible example, because even though SS² has the capability to wipe out countless stars, he only mentioned the fact that it can destroy Earth. All he cares about is Earth.

I’m very sure very sure you haven’t actually read the justification for why Shibai is accepted as Universal on the wiki. You can’t cherry-pick individual lines, isolate them, and then sprint to a conclusion. The parts don’t explain the whole unless they’re read together, in context.
And no absolutely no “a god creating the world” in this context does not mean “creating a planet.” Which world? Which planet? It clearly isn’t Earth. Momoshiki had no information about Earth at all until he sent Kinshiki and Urashiki to investigate Kaguya’s assignment.
Creation here isn’t casual or localized. It’s programmatic a foundational act. The term used is Sōsei, which directly translates to world genesis, the beginning of a world, or the creation of the world itself. That word explicitly implies origination, not modification and not terraforming.
So ask yourself: why would Momoshiki reference a god who used Omnipotence to create some irrelevant, unnamed planet one he doesn’t even know exists, and one that Ōtsutsuki would likely destroy as part of chakra harvesting anyway? That makes no narrative or lore sense.
are we supposed to believe that another Ōtsutsuki gods used Omnipotence to create the current world and that translate to the current Earth so they are two planet earth for some odd reason they are so fixated on creating duplicate versions of the current world which according you all logic only means earth, pure nonsense and completely unsupported.
We read this series with context and lore in mind. Power scaling comes after it’s a byproduct of established narrative consistency, not something you impose first and force the story to fit.

 

[Worthless]

In the universe that interpreting the word "world" is based on context?

Most characters in general (not just Blast) only care about their planet because that’s literally where they live so saying the word "world" in their context extends beyond their home planet with no further context is just straight up terrible logic, especially if it’s coming from the same dude whose main theme is literally that if the Earth is in danger he will appear.

It's not a terrible example because when he mentioned the fact that it can destroy earth, he didn't say world, he verbatim said earth.

The point is he doesn’t care about what happens beyond Earth as evident with SS² so to assume his "World" extends beyond his home planet just because he mentioned God is beyond anything in the verse is just a terrible example.

Funny how you mention bad examples when yours is horrendous.
Like slapping uni on opm God coz he gave garou 4a is not even remotely the same thing. On here is stated to create the world so he has grounds for a universal interpretation of it. All we have to do is put context clues together. Opm God has zero such statements. Don't bring your horrendous opm discussion takes here

Like this Genesis argument. It's just straight up stupidity.

 

[Worthless]

I’m very sure very sure you haven’t actually read the justification for why Shibai is accepted as Universal on the wiki. You can’t cherry-pick individual lines, isolate them, and then sprint to a conclusion. The parts don’t explain the whole unless they’re read together, in context.
And no absolutely no “a god creating the world” in this context does not mean “creating a planet.” Which world? Which planet? It clearly isn’t Earth. Momoshiki had no information about Earth at all until he sent Kinshiki and Urashiki to investigate Kaguya’s assignment.
Creation here isn’t casual or localized. It’s programmatic a foundational act. The term used is Sōsei, which directly translates to world genesis, the beginning of a world, or the creation of the world itself. That word explicitly implies origination, not modification and not terraforming.
So ask yourself: why would Momoshiki reference a god who used Omnipotence to create some irrelevant, unnamed planet one he doesn’t even know exists, and one that Ōtsutsuki would likely destroy as part of chakra harvesting anyway? That makes no narrative or lore sense.
are we supposed to believe that another Ōtsutsuki gods used Omnipotence to create the current world and that translate to the current Earth so they are two planet earth for some odd reason they are so fixated on creating duplicate versions of the current world which according you all logic only means earth, pure nonsense and completely unsupported.
We read this series with context and lore in mind. Power scaling comes after it’s a byproduct of established narrative consistency, not something you impose first and force the story to fit.

That bunch of guesswork already says it all.

 

[Kaydee1648]

> A says X is stupid​

> B explains why it’s not, and gives a reason on how it’s actually backed by the narrative​

> A says X is stupid again​

And we wonder how we got to 13 pages. Please if you have nothing productive to say, just don’t say anything at all.

 

[KingogKings777]

it is the kara dimension

Ah okay, thought you meant the one they had meetings in instead.

 

[KingogKings777]

I don't think it views the whole cosmology. She can't see things on a spiritual plane like souls or pure lands. other then that she can see anything in the universe. However not all of it at the same time.
Here

Just a little nitpick here she can see souls kinda? chapter 57 page 76. Its just whatever that thing Momo is talking with Boruto she can't see

 

[HelloThere1089]

Unbelievable.

The text never says that this is not valid, it only says that this does not automatically guarantee that they are separate universes. This is my final message to you; at this point, you're simply not reading the standards.

This is also my final message to you: you're not able to track. Which is fine. Give up.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Most characters in general (not just Blast) only care about their planet because that’s literally where they live so saying the word "world" in their context extends beyond their home planet with no further context is just straight up terrible logic, especially if it’s coming from the same dude whose main theme is literally that if the Earth is in danger he will appear.

You do know that you’re debunking yourself right? Oats don’t care about the planet called “Earth” they didn’t even know it existed until Momo went to check up on Kaguya. To them, planets are disposable resources (chakra farms) not “home worlds.” So pretending that “world” suddenly means planet they personally live on makes zero sense in this context.

The “Hagoromo created the world” statement is actually the perfect counter example. No Naruto fan argues that Hagoromo created the planet, let alone the universe. Why? Because context makes it obvious that “world” refers to the state of the world / civilization / era, not a literal celestial body.

That exact same logic applies here. You can’t selectively downgrade “world” to “planet” only when it benefits your argument, especially when:

• Oats don’t consider the planet Earth as their “world”
• Talks about an alien that consumes thousands of planets
• Exists as a being that dwarfs anything in the series, a series that creating celestial bodies are a casual occurrence

If “world” automatically meant “planet,” than why would a alien race go around absorbing l5b worth of energy for thousands of times just to create a single planet when kaguya can absorb a little form the Shinboi alliance and create a solar system size dimension? Moreover whose world are they creating? Cuz it’s certainly not their own.

The point is he doesn’t care about what happens beyond Earth as evident with SS² so to assume his "World" extends beyond his home planet just because he mentioned God is beyond anything in the verse is just a terrible example.

Like this Genesis argument. It's just straight up stupidity.

What are you even on about?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Most characters in general (not just Blast) only care about their planet because that’s literally where they live so saying the word "world" in their context extends beyond their home planet with no further context is just straight up terrible logic, especially if it’s coming from the same dude whose main theme is literally that if the Earth is in danger he will appear.

The point is he doesn’t care about what happens beyond Earth as evident with SS² so to assume his "World" extends beyond his home planet just because he mentioned God is beyond anything in the verse is just a terrible example.

Like this Genesis argument. It's just straight up stupidity.

He doesn't care because he's never seen or imagined anyone being a threat to the entire universe. THE EARTH IS IN THE UNIVERSE. If someone is going to destroy the universe he would care because earth would go bye bye too.
Go back to my statement.


Genesis argument? That's what you picked? I'm going to dumb it down.

Momoshiki expert on all Shinjutsu ( guy who has created his own dimension with stars, witnessed kaguya six space times with some confirmed stars and moons comes out to say that this particular Shinjutsu is unlike anything we've ever seen and can be wielded by someone who is peerless and completely transcendent in terms of power in relation to anything we've ever seen. He attributes it to creating the world and the context clues here point to the planet?

 

[GG55HH]

I think we all know hating on Boruto getting past planet level is what got this up to 13 pages not because people (not everyone) actually had something reasonable to say

 

[HelloThere1089]

When did damage disagree?

Well if you open the thread and go to the 2nd page, you can indeed use your eyes and see that Damage at the time did disagree with Net's proposal. The option to go to the second page is at the bottom. Hope this helps .

 

[Shadow7001]

Has grace ended? 48 hours with 3 staff disagreements.

 

[Deceived3596]

Its 3-2 the last time I checked. That isn't big enough of a distinction to close the thread, rule-wise. We need more mod participation before anything like that is allowed.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It’s 3-2 the last time I checked. That isn't big enough of a distinction to close the thread, rule-wise. We need more mod participation before anything like that is allowed.

Once a side gets the required amount of votes threads go into grace.

You can’t force more of them to participate. That’s just how the system goes.

I believe the vote difference thing is only for vs threads but I could be wrong.