True Hero vs King | Undyne the Undying vs Asgore Dreemurr | 7-4-0

[Qurbonboev]

It's time to find out who is the strongest "normal" Monster

Location is Last Corridor
Both are bloodlusted
SBA otherwise

Hey, this bump is shaped as fish: @CastoriceTheFifth , @Mbpoops , @ShionAH , @Friedoil11

I, UNDYNE, will strike you down: @SnakesCity , @Monsters_fight , @StrymULTRA ,@Anonymous_Learner , @LittleGuy99 , @GPR_Shadow , @Kellex

ACKCHYUALLY, Sans is the strongest monster(incon):

 

[SnakesCity]

Asgore takes this i think, Undyne is famously weak to sustained heat and fire is Asgore's entire thing that he's gonna be spamming, he also has the advantage of being the one to train Undyne and likely knows what kind of moves she'd pull.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Just a reminder Undyne only ever knocked down a casual Asgore once because he was very happy to get beat up

 

[Mbpoops]

I would go asgore for this ngl

 

[Qurbonboev]

Just a reminder Undyne only ever knocked down a casual Asgore once because he was very happy to get beat up

SOULPower is accepted as UES. In Undyne vs Asgore sparing matches Asgore has speed advantage. Now its Undying that has speed advantage(by unknown amount). So hitting him should be somewhat easier for her this time

 

[Monsters_fight]

Undyne the Undying FRA
99 ATK/DEF VS 80 ATK/DEF

 

[Qurbonboev]

Undyne the Undying FRA
99 ATK/DEF VS 80 ATK/DEF

Without feats on her own, she is iust vaguely somewhat stronger than Asgore. And stats difference is mitigated via fire magic anyways

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Without feats on her own, she is iust vaguely somewhat stronger than Asgore. And stats difference is mitigated via fire magic anyways

Fried Fish

 

[StrymULTRA]

Asgore takes this i think, Undyne is famously weak to sustained heat

Only in her normal form, nothing says she has it in Undying, please, especially when she's boosted by DT. Plus she casually took the oven explosion of the MTT oven.

Asgore's entire thing that he's gonna be spamming, he also has the advantage of being the one to train Undyne and likely knows what kind of moves she'd pull.

Lil bro Undyne has trained with the same Asgore, what makes you think this won't be a cakewalk with that transformation.

I mean, even then, UtU's attacks are harder to dodge, faster overall, and especially stronger. It shouldn't even be a debate here, unless you wanna wank Asgore's skill from a feat of him no-diffing a kid Undyne or him being a MVP off-screen in the war (when nothing hinted at that in-canon besides fanfics).

 

[Monsters_fight]

Without feats on her own, she is iust vaguely somewhat stronger than Asgore. And stats difference is mitigated via fire magic anyways

She has resistance to extreme hot bro

 

[Qurbonboev]

Only in her normal form, nothing says she has it in Undying, please, especially when she's boosted by DT. Plus she casually took the oven explosion of the MTT oven.

She has resistance to extreme hot bro

Frisk has it too, and can take MTT oven without problems. Yet they still are getting fried by Asgore fire.
If DT boosts fire resistance it shouldn't be too noticeable in this case. Abandon genocide route after Undying and you will fight Asgore being always stronger than during Undying fight, yet you still would take damage from fire

 

[StrymULTRA]

Frisk has it too, and can take MTT oven without problems. Yet they still are getting fried by Asgore fire.

"fried" ok when did they get one shot lol.

If DT boosts fire resistance it shouldn't be too noticeable in this case. Abandon genocide route after Undying and you will fight Asgore being always stronger than during Undying fight, yet you still would take damage from fire

Not to the degree you're implying.

 

[Qurbonboev]

fried" ok when did they get one shot lol.

"Fried" is too extreme of word, yeah. Still they take damage from it.

Not to the degree you're implying.

I am not saying that Asgore have higher stats than Undying(which is obviously wrong). I am saying that Frisk with comparable stats and higher DT than Undying still get considerably damaged by flames. So Undying would def still be affected by them.

 

[StrymULTRA]

"Fried" is too extreme of word, yeah. Still they take damage from it.

Like any regular attack does, though.

still get considerably damaged by flames.

Lol, what? Asgore's attacks are nothing special compared to others just because they're hot lol.

 

[GPR_Shadow]

Like any regular attack does, though.

Lol, what? Asgore's attacks are nothing special compared to others just because they're hot lol.

What about Asgore leaving us with 1 HP and his damage scaling to HP mechanic, he's obviously holding back

 

[StrymULTRA]

What about Asgore leaving us with 1 HP

What

he's obviously holding back

So does Toriel, yet both their stats are 80, which displays their maximum potential. Undyne the Undying is simply stronger.

 

[GPR_Shadow]

What.

Yes, if you have like 2 hp and get hit by Asgore's attack the hp is set to 1

So does Toriel, yet both their stats are 80, which displays their maximum potential. Undyne the Undying is simply stronger.

Does Fire still consider an advantage of Asgore ? Well maybe not

Frisk has it too, and can take MTT oven without problems. Yet they still are getting fried by Asgore fire.
If DT boosts fire resistance it shouldn't be too noticeable in this case. Abandon genocide route after Undying and you will fight Asgore being always stronger than during Undying fight, yet you still would take damage from fire

Anyway, maybe this is because our determination is weaker in Asgore fight ? While in Undyne The Undying determination is sky rocket


Nyeh, maybe Inconclusive, but i have more fate towards Undyne, because she's fighting a stronger determination one

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes, if you have like 2 hp and get hit by Asgore's attack the hp is set to 1

So do Mettaton and Papyrus, so?

Does Fire still consider an advantage of Asgore ? Well maybe not

As I said, no. It's a normal attack just like Undyne's spears.

 

[GPR_Shadow]

So do Mettaton and Papyrus, so?

I just want to say Asgore is holding back, oh yeah and also his damage is scale to HP, just saying

As I said, no. It's a normal attack just like Undyne's spears.

Understandable.

 

[Qurbonboev]

As I said, no. It's a normal attack just like Undyne's spears.

Even so, just being in Hotland was pretty deteriorating for her(which isn't true for most monsters), which is expected given that she is originally water monster. If fight prolongs, raise of temperature in room would probably tank her combat effectiveness by sizeable margin.

Lil bro Undyne has trained with the same Asgore, what makes you think this won't be a cakewalk with that transformation.

I mean, even then, UtU's attacks are harder to dodge, faster overall, and especially stronger. It shouldn't even be a debate here, unless you wanna wank Asgore's skill from a feat of him no-diffing a kid Undyne or him being a MVP off-screen in the war (when nothing hinted at that in-canon besides fanfics)

Asgore beat 6 fallen humans(who had time powers) and was enough of challenge to Flowey that he didn't consider killing Asgore without SAVE/LOAD power as viable strategy. I highly doubt that Asgore used fire danmaku against Undyne during training.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Even so, just being in Hotland was pretty deteriorating for her(which isn't true for most monsters)

Why would Undying also suffer?

Asgore beat 6 fallen humans(who had time powers)

Featless people do be featless, it's not a skill feat this one.

and was enough of challenge to Flowey that he didn't consider killing Asgore without SAVE/LOAD power as viable strategy

And this comes from what lol?

I highly doubt that Asgore used fire danmaku against Undyne during training.

So we use headcanon now? Wow.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Why would Undying also suffer?

Cus increased fire resistance due to increased DT boost isn't quantifiable at all. Hotland warmth was too much for her, when monsters like Nice Cream Guy(Snowdin NPC) have no problem with it. Come of think of, why we are assuming that DT increases fire resistance in the first place? Like, even 0 DEF Frisk has no problem with neither owen explosion nor Hotland.

Featless people do be featless, it's not a skill feat this one.

Ok.

And this comes from what lol?

He specifically waiting for us to weaken Asgore, so he could finish him off. Instead of killing him fair and square by himself and obtaining SOULs before we could reach him.

So we use headcanon now? Wow.

If you disagree with using this pretty reasonable assumption, ok

 

[StrymULTRA]

Cus increased fire resistance due to increased DT boost isn't quantifiable at all. Hotland warmth was too much for her,

With the armor, and let's not pretend she didn't cross it to reach Frisk at the end of True Pacifist.

Come of think of, why we are assuming that DT increases fire resistance in the first place? Like, even 0 DEF Frisk has no problem with neither owen explosion nor Hotland.

Because why would DT keep her weakness if it comes only from her armored state?

He specifically waiting for us to weaken Asgore, so he could finish him off. Instead of killing him fair and square by himself and obtaining SOULs before we could reach him.

He specifically needed Asgore to show the SOULs, meaning that he didn't see until he showed them to us. This was even removed in a CRT lmao.

If you disagree with using this pretty reasonable assumption, ok

"Reasonable assumption" still one. Especially when Toriel uses it against Frisk while not wanting to kill them.

 

[Qurbonboev]

With the armor, and let's not pretend she didn't cross it to reach Frisk at the end of True Pacifist

She fights in armor in this match.

He specifically needed Asgore to show the SOULs, meaning that he didn't see until he showed them to us. This was even removed in a CRT lmao.

Flowey himself:
"I owe you a HUGE thanks.
You really did a number on that old fool.
Without you, I NEVER could have gotten past him."
Only way to interpret this words is that Flowey heavily doubts his ability to beat Asgore without SAVE/LOAD(btw, you himself linked that part in the CRT).

"Reasonable assumption" still one. Especially when Toriel uses it against Frisk while not wanting to kill them.

Toriel is lowkey psychopath(won't t hold back filly unlike Papyrus, fires at Asgore immediately). But I already said that I am ok if you don't consider this assumption as legitimate argument.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Undyne FRA

 

[GPR_Shadow]

I'll give my vote to Undyne, for better stat and fighting a high killing intent Frisk

Asgore just defeat featless 6 Souls and fire advantage

Flowey himself:
"I owe you a HUGE thanks.
You really did a number on that old fool.
Without you, I NEVER could have gotten past him."
Only way to interpret this words is that Flowey heavily doubts his ability to beat Asgore without SAVE/LOAD(btw, you himself linked that part in the CRT).

iirc, this argument is wrong due to Flowey says that he kills everyone in genocide route, and "Never gotten past him" is because Asgore doesn't show the souls to Flowey

 

[Qurbonboev]

iirc, this argument is wrong due to Flowey says that he kills everyone in genocide route, and "Never gotten past him" is because Asgore doesn't show the souls to Flowey

He killed everyone when he had SAVE/LOAD powers. Argument is that without this power he wouldn't be able to kill Asgore(something he clearly states)

 

[GPR_Shadow]

He killed everyone when he had SAVE/LOAD powers. Argument is that without this power he wouldn't be able to kill Asgore(something he clearly states)

Ohh...
Damn, I have the wrong argument

Well, iirc again, Undyne The Undying is only available in the genocide when Frisk is a threat even to humanity

So from what i am seeing that, undyne the undying will be treat the same as Asgore, due to Flowey never experienced Undyne The Undying

 

[SnakesCity]

Only in her normal form, nothing says she has it in Undying, please, especially when she's boosted by DT. Plus she casually took the oven explosion of the MTT oven.

Lil bro Undyne has trained with the same Asgore, what makes you think this won't be a cakewalk with that transformation.

I mean, even then, UtU's attacks are harder to dodge, faster overall, and especially stronger. It shouldn't even be a debate here, unless you wanna wank Asgore's skill from a feat of him no-diffing a kid Undyne or him being a MVP off-screen in the war (when nothing hinted at that in-canon besides fanfics).

Fair. I'll switch my vote to Undyne.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Undyne FRA

 

[GPR_Shadow]

Oh yeah, I forgot about his, i'm gonna vote for Undyne

 

[Qurbonboev]

Bump

 

[ShionAH]

Asgore lowkey takes it if he's not depressed, he killed 6 humans who all had SAVE and RESET which is like considered basically completely impossible to any other monsters

 

[StrymULTRA]

Asgore lowkey takes it if he's not depressed, he killed 6 humans who all had SAVE and RESET which is like considered basically completely impossible to any other monsters

Undyne the Undying was never there when all of this happened, though.

 

[ShionAH]

Undyne the Undying was never there when all of this happened, though.

I don't think Undyne the Undying has done anything more impressive than soloing 6 Save and Reset kids like that ngl, thats MAD impressive I mean those are basically mini Frisk's he was going against.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't think Undyne the Undying has done anything more impressive than soloing 6 Save and Reset kids like that ngl, thats MAD impressive I mean those are basically mini Frisk's he was going against.

Literally nothing says they are remotely comparable to Frisk, we gotta remember that Frisk is a different beast compared to all the other humans, especially given that even after that the Barrier was destroyed they still could use the SAVE File.

I really wouldn't use Frisk as a measuring tool at all, especially when these 6 Humans are all featless and are purely reliant on off-screen stuff that is left vague and up to interpretation.

Even then, Undyne the Undying is meant to be harder narratively, she's got higher stats and more annoying patterns than Asgore.

 

[ShionAH]

Undyne the Undying is meant to be harder narratively

We don't ever fight Prime Asgore, he is suicidal and depressed when we fight in Neutral.

I personally think its closer to Incon because Asgore is more skilled and has more lethal attacks (Fire + Trident > Spears) while Undyne has the stat advantage!

 

[StrymULTRA]

We don't ever fight Prime Asgore, he is suicidal and depressed when we fight in Neutral.

Prime Asgore doesn't even exist, what are you larping about lol

 

[ShionAH]

Prime Asgore doesn't even exist, what are you larping about lol

I am talking about Asgore who actually wants to fight us and isn't a depressed mess

 

[StrymULTRA]

I am talking about Asgore who actually wants to fight us and isn't a depressed mess

Ok, and what feats does that have?

I mean actual quantifiable feats that don't rely on assumptions and off-screen stuff with no details.