Radiation spammer encounters a gun spammer| Positron (City of heroes) vs Pizza Guy (Pizza game) | [3-0-0]

[Delusionaltx2]

Doing this for the strongest 8-C list (if this ends up a stomp I'm hiding behind this)

• Speed equalized​
• The Sewers is used for pizza Guy​

Fight takes place on the grand canyon:

Positron: DaReaperMan, Arkansalter2, Shadowslash125

Pizza Guy:

Incon:

 

[DaReaperMan]

You need total complete SBA for strongest matches, otherwise it just doesn't count, so... your guy can't have prior knowledge, he can't have anything he doesn't have under SBA(So no optional equipment, elements, or really anything sewers doesn't start with, lol), and all he's got is speed equal. And if he didn't Posi would blitz him so lol.

Anyways, Posi casually strolls into range whistling dicksie and instantly incapacitates him with Radiation. Good luck landing a shot on him anyways, he's got the ability to make forcefields and Pizza is unable to one-shot him(or consistently land hits, do you know how far a hundred meters is?) Posi kinda just incaps him with a gesture, gg.

Posi also resists like, all his haxxy shit for the most part. And can use the trees as cover to get close, which is in-character. You basically need to be an Inorganic or have ranged death shots that blitz even from SBA range and are massive heatsinks for Positron to not gib you

 

[Delusionaltx2]

You need total complete SBA for strongest matches, otherwise it just doesn't count, so... your guy can't have prior knowledge, he can't have anything he doesn't have under SBA(So no optional equipment, elements, or really anything sewers doesn't start with, lol),

Ah alr then (it was to help positron anyway)

Anyways I'll respond in a bit

 

[DaReaperMan]

• Pizza Guy has access to all of his optional equipment and elements​
• Pizza Guy has 3 souls and +10 luck​

He can't have these.

I meant it when I said pure SBA beyond speed equal. If Pizza Guy needs a billion pieces of optional equipment and optional abilities to do shit, he doesn't belong on the list.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also I love how I can just see the arguments coming from a mile away:

Insert optional weapon here: If you want a fun match, we can do that, but for top strongest, nah.

Insert optional ability here: see above

Hitscan bullets: from inaccurate pistols with a limited magazine from a hundred yards out minimum. He is not hitting the broad side of a barn between Positron's shields and the fact Posi will survive a few shots.

Also get John Pizza past Roshi.

Good ******* luck, he's got Supersonic+ ability to catch your measly upscaling from Supersonic bullets, and the skill to beat his head in with no effort.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

You need total complete SBA for strongest matches, otherwise it just doesn't count, so... your guy can't have prior knowledge, he can't have anything he doesn't have under SBA(So no optional equipment, elements, or really anything sewers doesn't start with, lol), and all he's got is speed equal. And if he didn't Posi would blitz him so lol.

true true but speed equal for strongest is a thing so lol

Anyways, Posi casually strolls into range whistling dicksie

he gets dura negged by open wounds while pizza guy uses tons of perks to amp his attack speed to pelt him with bullets which would already be hitscan in comparason to the both of them

and instantly incapacitates him with Radiation.

Funnily enough since pizza underwent the same process, his willpower would be comparable to everlastings who are stated to have the greatest vitality out of any demon in the suburbs which upscales them from paladins who can fight until their light fades (death)

Unless that radiation straight up kills him (mind you he has to get in range first while pizza guy really needs like 1-2 shots) he isn't gonna get incapped

Good luck landing a shot on him anyways, he's got the ability to make forcefields

Weakpoint

and Pizza is unable to one-shot him

Weapoints consist of things like vitals (Everlastings have their weapoint listed as their exposed heart dispite their weapoints being only comparable in dmg while also being weakpoints) so open wounds would make areas on his body about as fragile as a human heart (since it forces the enemy to have one)

(or consistently land hits, do you know how far a hundred meters is?)

Ignoring the fact pizza guy scales to military grunts who are literally trained to aim farther than this

Richochet makes his attacks auto-aim from just shooting a thrown weapon/object so...

Posi kinda just incaps him with a gesture, gg.

So his stuff is gesture based?

Posi also resists like, all his haxxy shit for the most part.

no resistance to dura neg...unfort

And can use the trees as cover to get close, which is in-character.

the second he decides to do this pizza guy would just grapple and B-hop away while shooting at him

You basically need to be an Inorganic

Willpower is truly meta

or have ranged death shots that blitz even from SBA range and are massive heatsinks for Positron to not gib you

good thing he basically has this

He can't have these.

I meant it when I said pure SBA beyond speed equal. If Pizza Guy needs a billion pieces of optional equipment and optional abilities to do shit, he doesn't belong on the list.

I left that on there because I genuenly remember seeing ppl run around with optional equitment on strongest but it was prob outdated when I last saw it

Also I love how I can just see the arguments coming from a mile away:

Insert optional weapon here: If you want a fun match, we can do that, but for top strongest, nah.

Insert optional ability here: see above

Perks aren't optional so he still has most of his hax

Hitscan bullets: from inaccurate pistols with a limited magazine from a hundred yards out minimum.

He regularly outguns military grunts and dozens of enemies at once

Heck this key has him tagging ppl who can fly and straight up teleport so he isn't inaccurate

He is not hitting the broad side of a barn between Positron's shields

He 100% will

and the fact Posi will survive a few shots.

Not with dura neg he can't

Also get John Pizza past Roshi.

Good ******* luck, he's got Supersonic+ ability to catch your measly upscaling from Supersonic bullets,

I'll put him up against roshi later

and the skill to beat his head in with no effort.

He loses to fear hax alone tbh

 

[DaReaperMan]

true true but speed equal for strongest is a thing so lol

Yep.

he gets dura negged by open wounds while pizza guy uses tons of perks to amp his attack speed to pelt him with bullets which would already be hitscan in comparason to the both of them

Would be super funny if Positron was in the same boat as Roshi when it comes to ******* over bullets, huh? I'll give you the vision I have given multiple people before when it comes to City of Heroes and ranged projectiles: Imagine someone with no supernatural powers, no real abilities beyond jump good and martial arts good... now, this person is invading a large scale military complex, which is filled to the brim with soldiers who are on par with the military organization that fights aliens that can literally atomize them, giant mech suits, homing rockets, and more guns than D-Day. Now imagine this guy, running in. If he gets hit once, he's dead, no questions asked. So he doesn't get hit. Despite the entire base coming down on him.

You will be tagging Positron with a ranged attack that's not literally an SoL laser in... well actually he'd die of old age before he got hit. By the way, what I just described? One of the less BS enemy factions in City of Heroes. It gets much, much worse with groups like the Rikti.

And don't try to claim blitz bullets, because those are upscaling from Supersonic. We're talking Supersonic+ bullets and usually Hypersonic ones, pal. You lose.

Also genuinely, that's Statistics Reduction, not durability negation. And it doesn't have proof of going through a barrier.

Funnily enough since pizza underwent the same process, his willpower would be comparable to everlastings who are stated to have the greatest vitality out of any demon in the suburbs which upscales them from paladins who can fight until their light fades (death)

Unless that radiation straight up kills him (mind you he has to get in range first while pizza guy really needs like 1-2 shots) he isn't gonna get incapped

I'm gonna need some proof that your guy has any ability whatsoever to withstand radiation that instantly knocks people out. If you don't got proof, sorry, your muhwillpower can go straight to hell.

Ignoring the fact pizza guy scales to military grunts who are literally trained to aim farther than this

With rifles. Military people do not hit shots 200 meters away with a ******' 1911.

Richochet makes his attacks auto-aim from just shooting a thrown weapon so...

Which hits a barrier because that shit is so obvious its not even funny even if Posi couldn't dodge it.

So his stuff is gesture based?

Yes.

no resistance to dura neg...unfort

the second he decides to do this pizza guy would just grapple and B-hop away while shooting at him

Willpower is truly meta

good thing he basically has the latter


I left that on there because I genuenly remember seeing ppl run around with optional equitment on strongest

Perks aren't optional so he still has most of his hax

He regularly outguns military grunts and dozens of enemies at once

Heck this ki has him tagging ppl who can fly and straight up teleport so he isn't inaccurate

He 100% will

Not with dura neg he can't

I'll put him up against roshi later

He loses to fear hax alone tbh

The rest of this is dealt with by barriers, the fact he ain't even SNIFFING the taint of an MMO as nuts as City of Heroes gets when it comes to skill, or the fact "l-lolwillpower?" requires actual feats of dealing with the hax at play.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let's just say, there's a reason John EBG got put into a six digit code by City of Heroes despite having a 2x AP advantage. And it's because City of Heroes as a game literally has something called "Tanker Stealth."

And it's not stealthy at all, it's just you running through the entire level, getting caught on human bodies, walls, boxes, etcetera, pulling basically the entire level to the end point, then grinding through it without taking a hit because high-end tankers simply do not take damage from anything less than an Elite Boss with accuracy buffs, they dodge it.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yep.

Would be super funny if Positron was in the same boat as Roshi when it comes to ******* over bullets, huh?

tbh roshi isn't even in the same boat because the bullets pizza guy has access to are hitscan in comparison to him despite he himself being a bullet timer

I'll give you the vision I have given multiple people before when it comes to City of Heroes and ranged projectiles: Imagine someone with no supernatural powers, no real abilities beyond jump good and martial arts good... now, this person is invading a large scale military complex, which is filled to the brim with soldiers who are on par with the military organization that fights aliens that can literally atomize them, giant mech suits, homing rockets, and more guns than D-Day. Now imagine this guy, running in. If he gets hit once, he's dead, no questions asked. So he doesn't get hit. Despite the entire base coming down on him.

Are the projectiles moving at speeds so fast they literally spawn on top of him?

Using profiles COH characters are MHS+ in reactions so this dosen't give me much to work with

You will be tagging Positron with a ranged attack that's not literally an SoL laser in... well actually he'd die of old age before he got hit.

Why though?

By the way, what I just described? One of the less BS enemy factions in City of Heroes. It gets much, much worse with groups like the Rikti.

cool

And don't try to claim blitz bullets, because those are upscaling from Supersonic. We're talking Supersonic+ bullets and usually Hypersonic ones, pal. You lose.

speed is equalized here so uhh...both characters are having their reaction and combat equated to the one with lower speed (in this case positron gets his speed equated to pizza guy)

it dosen't really matter how fast those bullets were moving if those bullets are slower or equal to positron in speed then uhhh he's still getting blitzed

Also genuinely, that's Statistics Reduction, not durability negation.

A weak point that literally scales to vital organs in potency is not statistics reduction

I'm gonna need some proof that your guy has any ability whatsoever to withstand radiation that instantly knocks people out. If you don't got proof, sorry, your muhwillpower can go straight to hell.

Ima need proof that the radiation can instantly KO people who upscale from people who literally don't get put down by anything that isn't straight up death

With rifles. Military people do not hit shots 200 meters away with a ******' 1911.

Again even if we assume he can't he just throws a rock and shoots him anyway thanks to richochet

Which hits a barrier because that shit is so obvious its not even funny even if Posi couldn't dodge it.

unless the barrier is passive then no and even then I'd argue it just goes through the barrier cause haha weakpoint

Yes.

Can I see scans?

The rest of this is dealt with by barriers,

weakpoint

the fact he ain't even SNIFFING the taint of an MMO as nuts as City of Heroes gets when it comes to skill,

Again are these projectiles moving so fast they can just spawn on ppl?

or the fact "l-lolwillpower?" requires actual feats of dealing with the hax at play.

I literally gave you feats though...

edit: technically statements but whatevs

 

[Delusionaltx2]

good greif i'm lagging

 

[DaReaperMan]

tbh roshi isn't even in the same boat because the bullets pizza guy has access to are hitscan in comparison to him despite he himself being a bullet timer

Are the projectiles moving at speeds so fast they literally spawn on top of him?

Using profiles COH characters are MHS+ in reactions so this dosen't give me much to work with

Why though?

cool

speed is equalized here so uhh...both characters are having they reaction and combat equated to the one with lower speed (in this case positron gets his speed equated to pizza guy)

it dosen't really matter how fast those bullets were moving if those bullets are slower or equal to positron in speed then uhhh he's still getting blitzed

A weak point that literally scales to vital organs in potency is not statistics reduction

Ima need proof that the radiation can instantly KO people who upscale from people who literally don't get put down by anything that isn't straight up death



unless the barrier is passive then no and even then I'd argue it just goes through the barrier cause haha weakpoint

Can I see scans?

weakpoint

Again are these projectiles moving so fast they can just spawn on ppl?

I literally gave you feats though...

All you had to say was "I have no feats of my character taking radiation on that level, I concede". This is a hax. Hax is based on resistance. Hax is not based on NLFs on random statements unless said statement is quite literally "Immune to X", and even THEN said level would have to be shown in-verse if it's above natural levels for what they'd encounter. And Radiation knocking someone out cold instantly? That shit ain't realistic radiation.

As for the speed wank... mmmm, sorry, your bullets are still Supersonic, thanks to speed equal rules, bullets are as meaningless as the guns themselves.
"Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained. Characters that can run over water via speed can, for example, still do so even if now technically too slow for that. Likewise, a character who can create a tornado by running fast in a circle can still create one by this manner, even though they are now running slower."
Also, like... bullets are shown as "hitscan" in City of Heroes. Even to the MHS guys. This uh, this ain't an argument.

Also Weakpoint needs proof of working on Forcefields, if you do not have proof, it is an NLF to assume it can.

As for scans... I got nothing for you. My computer can do images, not video. And Gesture based as well as the majority of instant incap comes from gameplay for a kind of Hero/villain I have none of currently. The closest I can give you is uh...

This is a directly stated to be a Positron past his limit. As in, exhausted. And he can still cast "**** you" that blitzed Black Scorpion. And is a huge beam. And yes, this incapacitated Black Scorpion for the rest of the comic. He isn't seen again.

Positron can spam these by the way. The only reason he didn't for the rest of the fight is because Lord Recluse decided his back needed more holes in it so backshotted him with eight bladed limbs.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

All you had to say was "I have no feats of my character taking radiation on that level, I concede".

the radiation only incaps? You would need feats suggesting it work on pizza guy to begin with

if the radiations effects actually killed instantly then sure thats different but it dosen't and thats the issue

This is a hax. Hax is based on resistance.

thats partially true, hax is based on showings and resistances a character who can stop time for 5 seconds is not going to be comparable to a guy who can straight up manipulate time with no restrictions

Hax is not based on NLFs on random statements unless said statement is quite literally "Immune to X", and even THEN said level would have to be shown in-verse if it's above natural levels for what they'd encounter.

i already gave scans for pizza guys willpower being potent enough to endure stuff that dosen't straight up kill him

either show scans suggesting it incaps people with willpower on his level or just say it dosen't work

And Radiation knocking someone out cold instantly?

Once again based on scans he scales to something that literally won't stop at anything beyond death. Knocking someone out cold is not death it's just KO. if it still lives the victim alive then willpower allows him to endure it plain and simple

That shit ain't realistic radiation.

As for the speed wank... mmmm, sorry, your bullets are still Supersonic, thanks to speed equal rules, bullets are as meaningless as the guns themselves.

according to speed equal, combat speed for both characters is equated to each other with things that scale above that being however many times higher they are than their normal combat speed

for example someone with an attack 2x faster than their combat speed is assumed to be 2x faster than the opponent (while using this attack)

"Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained. Characters that can run over water via speed can, for example, still do so even if now technically too slow for that. Likewise, a character who can create a tornado by running fast in a circle can still create one by this manner, even though they are now running slower."

and it also says this

" The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc. "

the difference between bullet timers (pizza guy) and his guns while unknown are big enough to where its hitscan to him therefore the projectiles are hitscan to the enemy and any other bullet timers

Also, like... bullets are shown as "hitscan" in City of Heroes. Even to the MHS guys. This uh, this ain't an argument.

This is shown and stated (the wiki itself is managed by wog so everything there is just a wog statement) as hitscan

show me scans rq of bullets in COH also being hitscan

Also Weakpoint needs proof of working on Forcefields, if you do not have proof, it is an NLF to assume it can.

Why would the forcefields be unable to be interacted with in the first place?

As for scans... I got nothing for you. My computer can do images, not video. And Gesture based as well as the majority of instant incap comes from gameplay for a kind of Hero/villain I have none of currently. The closest I can give you is uh...

This is a directly stated to be a Positron past his limit. As in, exhausted. And he can still cast "**** you" that blitzed Black Scorpion. And is a huge beam. And yes, this incapacitated Black Scorpion for the rest of the comic. He isn't seen again.

you said this was gesture based...then showed me a scan of him using his arms to fire a blast...that isn't gesture based

when I here gesture based I expect "character can look at you funny and make stuff happen"

Edit: I get the technical difficulties (i suffer from those too) but i'm saying if ur gonna say its gesture based at least do it while you have the scans available

Positron can spam these by the way. The only reason he didn't for the rest of the fight is because Lord Recluse decided his back needed more holes in it so backshotted him with eight bladed limbs.

And pizza guy can spam his bullets as well which are auto aim thanks to richocet

 

[DaReaperMan]

the radiation only incaps? You would need feats suggesting it work on pizza guy to begin with

if the radiations effects actually killed instantly then sure thats different but it dosen't and thats the issue

thats partially true, hax is based on showings and resistances a character who can stop time for 5 seconds is not going to be comparable to a guy who can straight up manipulate time with no restrictions

i already gave scans for pizza guys willpower being potent enough to endure stuff that dosen't straight up kill him

16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)​

"This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated)."

Are you done? Provide proof it applies to radiation or stop dropping NLFs like they mean anything. Burden of proof is on YOU to prove that he can withstand instant incap radiation. The argument ends in my favor because you are using a fallacy, and I am not. For mortal means, sure, those statements apply. For radiation that does not act like real radiation (Real radiation just kills you, it doesn't instantly knock you out), it wouldn't apply.

For instance, if the below was done to Pizza Guy, there'd be no issue, because electricity that knocks people out would be included in your statements, since electricity DOES knock people and animals out. It's something that happens IRL.

Take it from someone who's been around awhile: You can stretch statements far, but you need to know when you've reached the limit. This right here is about it. From here on out, any NLFs you try to argue for or make will be responded with "NLF DETECTED. NLF DETECTED."

" The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc. "

And the direct statement is anything that could be done with speed before can still be done. Which includes dodging supersonic, or indeed higher, bullets.

You are talking to the person who made people more aware of speed equal rules. I know every single one back to front.

show me scans rq of bullets in COH also being hitscan

hi.

By the way that guy is a god-tier(admittedly choosing to tank to protect civilians but hey, there's a single muzzle flash, and there's seven impacts, still can't get the game scans)

Why would the forcefields be unable to be interacted with in the first place?

Why would Weakpoint work on something it has never been shown to work on before? This isn't an organic being it's trying to hit, it's a barrier with no organs or anything.

you said this was gesture based...then showed me a scan of him using his arms to fire a blast...that isn't gesture based

Did you know that putting your arms out is a gesture? And that waving your arm is a gesture?

Not every gesture is a flick of the writst, it's still a quick movement that is nuking.

when I here gesture based I expect "character can look at you funny and make stuff happen"

I would say "glare". Kinda like this. Basically Thoughts>=glare/twitch>Gestures when it comes to quickdraw logic. Putting your arms out is something you can do in less than a second. In fact you can probably bring your arm back down in that second too. Hell this is also a gesture:

Though admittedly, it's from World of Warcraft, not City of Heroes.

And pizza guy can spam his bullets as well which are auto aim thanks to richocet

See above

 

[Delusionaltx2]

16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)​

"This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated)."

And I've already shown scans suggesting his willpower allows him to handle things that can't KO him.

Its your burden to prove that the radiation can still KO him.

Are you done? Provide proof it applies to radiation or stop dropping NLFs like they mean anything.

Why is it a no limits fallacy when I'm literally sending scans for it?

Burden of proof is on YOU to prove that he can withstand instant incap radiation.

Which I did by explaining and showing scans for how his willpower allows him to endure stuff that doesn't literally kill him.

The burden of proof is now on YOU to explain how radiation would circumvent that as the effect doesn't seem to extend to anything beyond that by your admission

The argument ends in my favor because you are using a fallacy, and I am not.

Your using like two rn (invincible ignorance and BOP)

For mortal means, sure, those statements apply. For radiation that does not act like real radiation (Real radiation just kills you, it doesn't instantly knock you out), it wouldn't apply.

Why would it not being real radiation now mean the process works in such a way to where it would bypass willpower?

What would even make the effects of being KO'd from this different from being KO'd normally

For instance, if the below was done to Pizza Guy, there'd be no issue, because electricity that knocks people out would be included in your statements, since electricity DOES knock people and animals out. It's something that happens IRL.

Take it from someone who's been around awhile: You can stretch statements far, but you need to know when you've reached the limit. This right here is about it. From here on out, any NLFs you try to argue for or make will be responded with "NLF DETECTED. NLF DETECTED."

I don't think you understand what ur claiming. Radiation regardless of weather it knocks stuff out or kills you still has a process to how it does it. In fact that goes for every ability tbh.


IRL radiation for example kills cells, this isn't IRL radiation so the process is just left unexplained

Does it knock people out through mind manip? Does it knock people out through attacking specific body parts? These are things you aren't really explaining instead your saying "jokes on you this isn't real radiation it's make believe so It'll bypass willpower to knock him out anyway!"

That just sounds like a cop out point tbh

And the direct statement is anything that could be done with speed before can still be done. Which includes dodging supersonic, or indeed higher, bullets.

The direct statement literally says that things beyond their normal speed are treated as an exception. "Higher bullets" that go beyond their speed is an exception.

You are talking to the person who made people more aware of speed equal rules. I know every single one back to front.

Anyone can make mistakes ig

hi.

By the way that guy is a god-tier(admittedly choosing to tank to protect civilians but hey, there's a single muzzle flash, and there's seven impacts, still can't get the game scans)

The fact this guy is able to move his arm at all to block it means he either

A. Had his arm out before the gun was even fired (which wouldn't apply here since we're assuming the bullets have already been fired)

B. Reacted to the gun and it's bullets (it which case that's an anti feat and it simply wouldn't be hitscan in the first place as he can perceive the bullets move)

Why would Weakpoint work on something it has never been shown to work on before?

Barriers are normally assumed to be physical due to just being able to interact with whatever they are blocking.

To say the barrier can block stuff without being interacted with you would basically be saying they have some form of selective intangibility/semi permiability that just works that way in which case prove it.

This isn't an organic being it's trying to hit, it's a barrier with no organs or anything.

Except the weak point isn't an organ it's just a specific area being made on the targets body to hit, this area makes things AS FRAGILE as a vital organ

Did you know that putting your arms out is a gesture? And that waving your arm is a gesture?

Yeah and his "gesture" based movements are slower than pizzas bullets just spawning on him

Not every gesture is a flick of the writst, it's still a quick movement that is nuking.

A movement that is vastly slower than pizza guy bullets literally spawning on him

I would say "glare". Kinda like this. Basically Thoughts>=glare/twitch>Gestures when it comes to quickdraw logic.

Eye based abilities in fiction can still travel though (look at supermans heat vision for example)

Can he make attacks from the radiation just spawn on top of people or no?

Putting your arms out is something you can do in less than a second.

Except it's still slow enough to where you can see your hand move

The bullet is so fast that from a POV where bullets from assault rifles still move these bullets are hitscan

In fact you can probably bring your arm back down in that second too. Hell this is also a gesture:

Though admittedly, it's from World of Warcraft, not City of Heroes.

All of this is still something you can perceive. things that are faster than perception would be WAY faster than that

See above

See above

 

[Adasdadadsada]

What are the wincons for both sides?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

What are the wincons for both sides?

Pizza guys main wincon is dura negging him while using bullets that are hitscan compared to his normal attack speed in addition to amping this further with perks (which are passive)

Positrons wincondition (according to reaper at least) is incapping via radiation

 

[Arkansalter2]

Let's just say, there's a reason John EBG got put into a six digit code by City of Heroes despite having a 2x AP advantage. And it's because City of Heroes as a game literally has something called "Tanker Stealth."

The bullshit skill that CoH folks have (can dodge timestop and raindrops apparently) along with them literally resisting everything John EBG has.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

What are the wincons for both sides?

Pizza's wincons are being wanked to vasta kuuma, NLFs, and the fact weakpoints are decent. Or in other words, why I don't like debating Roblox. Because this always happens.

And I've already shown scans suggesting his willpower allows him to handle things that can't KO him.

Its your burden to prove that the radiation can still KO him.

Why is it a no limits fallacy when I'm literally sending scans for it?

Which I did by explaining and showing scans for how his willpower allows him to endure stuff that doesn't literally kill him.

The burden of proof is now on YOU to explain how radiation would circumvent that as the effect doesn't seem to extend to anything beyond that by your admission

NLF DETECTED. NLF DETECTED.

Okay, maybe once I'll give you more than that. Your claim is that the willpower works on radiation and... well I probably shouldn't have automatically taken your word on it cause LOL why does this scale to Pizzaguy?
"his willpower would be comparable to everlastings who are stated to have the greatest vitality out of any demon in the suburbs"
Which leads to...
"An Everlasting is created when a weak demon is overpowered by its host's undying will to survive. The host breaks the weak demon and uses its power to strengthen their own will to survive. This results in Everlastings having vitality beyond any other possessed. Their very existence stems from their unwavering belief in not dying."

Well clearly they're possessed, considering they're called such. This ability would come from the possession from the stronger demon, not the Pizza Guy. Because one of these are possessed, and the other is not.

eh, regardless, I have bigger fish to fry now.

Your using like two rn (invincible ignorance and BOP)

3. Burden of proof fallacy​

"This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim."

The positive claim here is that Pizza Guy's willpower works on radiataion, using faulty statements and scaling. I do not have to prove a negative that Positron's radiation works on something that hasn't shown to stop it.

Why would it not being real radiation now mean the process works in such a way to where it would bypass willpower?

What would even make the effects of being KO'd from this different from being KO'd normally

I don't think you understand what ur claiming. Radiation regardless of weather it knocks stuff out or kills you still has a process to how it does it. In fact that goes for every ability tbh


IRL radiation for example kills cells, this isn't IRL radiation so the process is just left unexplained

Does it knock people out through mind manip? Does it knock people out through attacking specific body parts? These are things you aren't really explaining instead your saying "jokes on you this isn't real radiation it's make believe so It'll bypass willpower to knock him out anyway!"

That just sounds like a cop out point tbh

Your entire point is one giant no limits fallacy using shaky scaling. Want the details of how that radiation works? They're never stated mate, just shown. We're told how the radiation comes out for Posi, nothing else.

The direct statement literally says that things beyond their normal speed are treated as an exception. "Higher bullets" that go beyond their speed is an exception.

Supersonic bullets<Supersonic+ bullets.

The fact this guy is able to move his arm at all to block it means he either

A. Had his arm out before the gun was even fired (which wouldn't apply here since we're assuming the bullets have already been fired)

B. Reacted to the gun and it's bullets (it which case that's an anti feat and it simply wouldn't be hitscan in the first place as he can perceive the bullets move)

He had his arm up because this is someone who fought in both world wars and knows how to protect people, and indeed knows how inaccurate some weapons can be. Marcus is like a century old.

Let's just say, there's a reason John EBG got put into a six digit code by City of Heroes despite having a 2x AP advantage. And it's because City of Heroes as a game literally has something called "Tanker Stealth."

And it's not stealthy at all, it's just you running through the entire level, getting caught on human bodies, walls, boxes, etcetera, pulling basically the entire level to the end point, then grinding through it without taking a hit because high-end tankers simply do not take damage from anything less than an Elite Boss with accuracy buffs, they dodge it.

Anyways, if these ******* can dodgebullet rains, arrow rains, actual rain, and fire rain, you don't hit those ranged hits.

Barriers are normally assumed to be physical due to just being able to interact with whatever they are blocking.

There's a new hole in the moon!

It's how far above your head my point went. My point is that barrier=/=squishy bodies for something like that, if you don't have anything proving that weakpoint works on a barrier, then it doesn't work on a Barrier.

To say the barrier can block stuff without being interacted with you would basically be saying they have some form of selective intangibility/semi permiability that just works that way in which case prove it.

Except the weak point isn't an organ it's just a specific area being made on the targets body to hit, this area makes things AS FRAGILE as a vital organ

Yeah and his "gesture" based movements are slower than pizzas bullets just spawning on him

A movement that is vastly slower than pizza guy bullets literally spawning on him

He just dodges bro, see below

Eye based abilities in fiction can still travel though (look at supermans heat vision for example)

Some do, some don't. For instance, X-Ray eyes in the Radiation powersets are hitscan, though that's not something Posi seems to do all that often.

Can he make attacks from the radiation just spawn on top of people or no?

He can.

The bullet is so fast that from a POV where bullets from assault rifles still move these bullets are hitscan

You know that Statesman image? That's how every firearm in City of Heroes works. You don't see the bullets, you just shoot and they spawn on people with effects. This is also how it works for enemy bullets.

Say hello to old game and how bullets work because of that. OG City of Heroes went offline in 2011... but dammit the spawns on you shit works for this argument!

Anything I didnt respond to... I just can't be ******. I already opened this post stating my distaste for Roblox debates and this has not changed my mind on it... also wrote half of this over 6 hours ago before focusing on the Hellaverse stuff.

 

[Adasdadadsada]

Honestly, i'm not seeing any scans for Positron but based on what you have told me i'm leaning towards him.

 

[Arkansalter2]

I'm going with Jimmy COH. It just seems that pizza guy can't really get around the funni soldier boy ass thing known as radiation.
City Of Radiation, low-mid diff.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Honestly, i'm not seeing any scans for Positron but based on what you have told me i'm leaning towards him.

If you want, I can just give you a link to download the game and check the firearms for yourself. Blasters, Corruptors, Defenders, and Sentinels can have ranged weaponry.

Don't even have to finish making the character.

 

[Adasdadadsada]

If you want, I can just give you a link to download the game and check the firearms for yourself. Blasters, Corruptors, Defenders, and Sentinels can have ranged weaponry.

Don't even have to finish making the character.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Pizza's wincons are being wanked to vasta kuuma, NLFs, and the fact weakpoints are decent. Or in other words, why I don't like debating Roblox. Because this always happens.

Your literally not explaining why it's an NLF beyond just saying it is though

in fact your literally arguing that since the radiation is make belief it fundamentally can't be the same as a KO which is more blatant of an NLF if anything

NLF DETECTED. NLF DETECTED.

Okay, maybe once I'll give you more than that. Your claim is that the willpower works on radiation and... well I probably shouldn't have automatically taken your word on it cause LOL why does this scale to Pizzaguy?

Because pizza guy got his stuff the exact same way they do by overpowering demon possession through sheer willpower and then weaponizing demon power

"his willpower would be comparable to everlastings who are stated to have the greatest vitality out of any demon in the suburbs"
Which leads to...
"An Everlasting is created when a weak demon is overpowered by its host's undying will to survive. The host breaks the weak demon and uses its power to strengthen their own will to survive. This results in Everlastings having vitality beyond any other possessed. Their very existence stems from their unwavering belief in not dying."

Well clearly they're possessed, considering they're called such.

And pizza guy is also possed by drav

This ability would come from the possession from the stronger demon,

Why are we lying? The scan literally says everlastings are made when a host overpowers a weak demon through sheer willpower wut?

"An Everlasting is created when a weak demon is overpowered by its host's undying will to survive. The host breaks the weak demon and uses its power to strengthen their own will to survive. This results in Everlastings having vitality beyond any other possessed. Their very existence stems from their unwavering belief in not dying."

not the Pizza Guy. Because one of these are possessed, and the other is not.

This is blatantly incorrect, pizzas relationship with drav is literally one of the first things that come up on the profile as multiple selves and just like them he also overrode demon possession through sheer willpower

eh, regardless, I have bigger fish to fry now.

Please stop lying about verses you simply aren't versed in okay?

3. Burden of proof fallacy​

"This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim."

The positive claim here is that Pizza Guy's willpower works on radiataion, using faulty statements and scaling.

The positive claim is that pizza guy can endure the radiation since it doesn't actually kill the individual

I've proven this by providing legitimate scans for willpower

Why are we saying it's faulty? Can we actually attack the arguments please?

I do not have to prove a negative that Positron's radiation works on something that hasn't shown to stop it.

But you do have to prove getting KO'd from the radiation is fundamentally different from a normal KO since that's what you are arguing

Your entire point is one giant no limits fallacy using shaky scaling.

Again how?

Want the details of how that radiation works? They're never stated mate, just shown. We're told how the radiation comes out for Posi, nothing else.

So you have no evidence of getting Ko'd by the radiation being different from normal KO, your only argument is "this is make believe so it just can"

And your calling my arguments shaky?

Supersonic bullets<Supersonic+ bullets.

He had his arm up because this is someone who fought in both world wars and knows how to protect people, and indeed knows how inaccurate some weapons can be. Marcus is like a century old.

Except that doesn't change the fact that if this is hitscan to someone of his speed it should be physically impossible to react to it directly

Anyways, if these ******* can dodgebullet rains, arrow rains, actual rain, and fire rain, you don't hit those ranged hits.

When his ranged attacks are literally auto aim thanks to the distance promoting him to make them be auto aim i'd say he absolutely can

There's a new hole in the moon!

It's how far above your head my point went. My point is that barrier=/=squishy bodies for something like that, if you don't have anything proving that weakpoint works on a barrier, then it doesn't work on a Barrier.

Once again why wouldn't it be able to Interact with the barrier in the first place????

He just dodges bro, see below

It auto aim and spawns on top of him

Some do, some don't. For instance, X-Ray eyes in the Radiation powersets are hitscan, though that's not something Posi seems to do all that often.

So ignoring the fact you haven't sent scans for this id like to point out that if this is t something he does often then why tf would it even be used before pizza guy just shoots him???

He can.

Prove it

You know that Statesman image? That's how every firearm in City of Heroes works. You don't see the bullets, you just shoot and they spawn on people with effects. This is also how it works for enemy bullets.

Your img consists ifa guy reacting to the bullet and ur saying the bullet spawned on top of him...do you not see the contradiction?

Say hello to old game and how bullets work because of that. OG City of Heroes went offline in 2011... but dammit the spawns on you shit works for this argument!

It works because in pizza guys case we have statements backed by very blatant showings

Anything I didnt respond to... I just can't be ******. I already opened this post stating my distaste for Roblox debates and this has not changed my mind on it... also wrote half of this over 6 hours ago before focusing on the Hellaverse stuff.

Mk ig

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I'm going with Jimmy COH. It just seems that pizza guy can't really get around the funni soldier boy ass thing known as radiation.

Not only does pizza guys willpower truck through it since it only incaps but even IF we were to steelman and say it did work, positron gets dura negged and blitz f***'d by auto aim hitscan before he even moves his arm to do anything

City Of Radiation, low-mid diff.

Just so we're clear the argument for positrons radiation even working (debatable at best) extends to it being make believe therefore making it different from radiation... (I can lowkenienly quote reaper too...)

You still wanna vote?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also I guess if we're voting, I'm obviously for Positron.

And don't expect me to comment again. I have a distaste for Roblox matches and, as I've said, this did NOT change that. I'd rather do a 100% run on a Getfixedboi seed in Terraria than continue actually debating this.

Not only does pizza guys willpower truck through it since it only incaps but even IF we were to steelman and say it did work, positron gets dura negged and blitz f***'d by auto aim hitscan before he even moves his arm to do anything

Just so we're clear the argument for positrons radiation even working (debatable at best) extends to it being make believe therefore making it different from radiation... (I can lowkenienly quote reaper too...)

You still wanna vote?

Stop whinin' about people voting for the other guy, jeez...

 

[Homie890]

Since when the GOAT Pizza Man had a profile?!
peak

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Also I guess if we're voting, I'm obviously for Positron.

And don't expect me to comment again. I have a distaste for Roblox matches and, as I've said, this did NOT change that. I'd rather do a 100% run on a Getfixedboi seed in Terraria than continue actually debating this.

Stop whinin' about people voting for the other guy, jeez...

Let's be honest, nobody is actually going to take the time to read the arguments, this happens for most even remotely long threads actually and is certainly going to be the case here since both of these characters aren't popular at all...


You can have rare moments where people actually read but nobody here is actually doing that so when they say "pizza guy can't handle radiation" without actually looking at the arguments as to why he can it just creates bandwagon appeal which prompts others to do the same rather than ppl actually thinking about their vote which is why I'm providing legitimate context here

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Since when the GOAT Pizza Man had a profile?!

peak

Thanks but as a disclaimer please actually read the arguments before voting please

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let's be honest, nobody is actually going to take the time to read the arguments, this happens for most even remotely long threads actually and is certainly going to be the case here since both of these characters aren't popular at all...

You can have rare moments where people actually read but nobody here is actually doing that so when they say "pizza guy can't handle radiation" without actually looking at the arguments as to why he can it just creates bandwagon appeal rather than ppl actually thinking about their vote which is why I'm providing legitimate context here

From my experience, Arkan at least thinks. And the other guy was obviously reading the arguments. This isn't a bandwagon, it's literally two people deciding one character wins. Now start counting votes, people get ancy when you don't, speaking from experience.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Just so we're clear the argument for positrons radiation even working (debatable at best) extends to it being make believe therefore making it different from radiation... (I can lowkenienly quote reaper too...)

You can have rare moments where people actually read but nobody here is actually doing that so when they say "pizza guy can't handle radiation" without actually looking at the arguments as to why he can it just creates bandwagon appeal which prompts others to do the same rather than ppl actually thinking about their vote which is why I'm providing legitimate context here

You do know I have been watching this whole thread right? Stop with the dumbass strays, my man.
Yes, Player has perception blitzing bullets known as hitscan, however I'm pretty sure many city of heroes folks have bullshit dodging skill so theres that.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

From my experience, Arkan at least thinks.

Thinking is not reading

And the other guy was obviously reading the arguments.

He legit said he was going based off what you told him bruh

Honestly, i'm not seeing any scans for Positron but based on what you have told me i'm leaning towards him.

This isn't a bandwagon, it's literally two people deciding one character wins.

It's two people voting based on surface level knowledge and because "this guy said this so it must be true!"...this is near textbook bandwagon

If they at least provide a counterclaim that actually attempts to address pizza guys stance then sure I'll count their vote the same way I did yours even though I disagree but if they aren't even reading then counting them is dishonest

Now start counting votes, people get ancy when you don't, speaking from experience.

The only vote that actually counts is your since your attempting to make arguments to attack the opposing side

These guys aren't making counterclaims or anything their just saying "shoot guess positron wins cause this guy said so"

There's not even a surface of reasoning here that aims to actually attack the opposition therefore we cannnot assume they are actually reading

 

[DaReaperMan]

You do know I have been watching this whole thread right? Stop with the dumbass strays, my man.
Yes, Player has perception blitzing bullets known as hitscan, however I'm pretty sure many city of heroes folks have bullshit dodging skill so theres that.

Generally it starts around security level 30 and it's at security level 50 where things get to the point where a lot of shit I described can happen.

This is a member of the highest-end superhero team around. He's Security level 50 and in fact is one of the main people giving security levels and shit.

 

[DaReaperMan]

snip

It doesn't matter if they posted twice or for five pages total, start countin'. If every vote on every thread was interrogated versus threads would take eons.

 

[Arkansalter2]

If they at least provide a counterclaim that actually attempts to address pizza guys stance then sure I'll count their vote the same way I did yours even though I disagree but if they aren't even reading then counting them is dishonest

Yeah Positron comes from the same verse who can fight each other that dodges time stop and rain drops... now you see why John EBG got stomped first argument. Unironically, John Slap has more of a chance against Statesfella than EBG but I digress.
My vote stays for Positron. Don't make a fuss about one of your favorite charcters losing. Hey, at least your character didn't lose to Sukuna at one point!!

 

[DaReaperMan]

By the way, either way this would be a stomp. Not exactly something to be added to profiles, y'know?

Now go fight the old ****.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

You do know I have been watching this whole thread right? Stop with the dumbass strays, my man.
Yes, Player has perception blitzing bullets known as hitscan, however I'm pretty sure many city of heroes folks have bullshit dodging skill so theres that.

So if you watched the whole thread why are you not tackling my response to "positron will just put skill the autoaim hitscan" and just saying "yeah I'm pretty sure he has a counter to this"

 

[Homie890]

Yeah Positron comes from the same verse who can fight each other that dodges time stop and rain drops... now you see why John EBG got stomped first argument. Unironically, John Slap has more of a chance against Statesfella than EBG but I digress.
My vote stays for Positron. Don't make a fuss about one of your favorite charcters losing. Hey, at least your character didn't lose to Sukuna at one point!!

The Ryomen Sukuna Curse:
Every character in the Wiki will atleast lose once to Sukuna.

 

[Arkansalter2]

So if you watched the whole thread why are you not tackling my response to "positron will just put skill the autoaim hitscan" and just saying "yeah I'm pretty sure he has a counter to this"

Go outside and dodge raindrops for me.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah Positron comes from the same verse who can fight each other that dodges time stop and rain drops...

Both of these are danmaku showings which are not the same as aim dodge showings let alone suggesting he dodges something that's already there and will literally curve to hit him

now you see why John EBG got stomped first argument. Unironically, John Slap has more of a chance against Statesfella than EBG but I digress.
My vote stays for Positron. Don't make a fuss about one of your favorite charcters losing. Hey, at least your character didn't lose to Sukuna at one point!!

Pizza guy isn't actually developed enough to be my favorite character but whatever