My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[MANOFGOD7]

Half the verse having enough LS to lift the moon because of a random mf jumping

Class P is not moon lifting my friend, it's class Z.

Proposal for Class E LS prime All Might :
In Two Heroes, All Might was able to use the force of his punches to stop the force of three of Wolfram's attacks over here,here and here. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that All Might can dish out his lifting strength with the strength of his punches. Therefore, using the x60 multiplier for weakened All Might's LS can give us a good estimate of prime All MIght's LS, just like we do for his AP (so 1.6275e+18N*60 = 9.765e+19N)

Planetary Range for Deku :
So even with the low end interpretation of the feat, it should still be very clear that Deku's range should be at least planetary, because the omni-directional shockwave isn't just traveling 10731km to USA, it's also traveling another 10731km in the opposite direction to the direction of USA. That is, if the shockwave traveled to the west of mount Fuji to reach USA, it would have also traveled to the east of mount Fuji to cover the same distance as it covered to reach USA. So the range is not the radius, but the diameter of the shockwave(21,462km, planetary).

 

[Papusupreme]

Sounds reasonable to me

 

[BiggestOpp]

Class P is not moon lifting my friend, it's class Z.

Class P: “The weight of small moons or small asteroids”
Apples and oranges man, you got what I meant

 

[MANOFGOD7]

Sounds reasonable to me

Thank you for your thoughts

Class P: “The weight of small moons or small asteroids”
Apples and oranges man, you got what I meant

Ohh yes I understand you, but because of this I had to go check the lifting strength page again because I got confused. It's still best to specify that it's small moons,the difference is quite substantial.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

Half the verse having enough LS to lift the moon because of a random mf jumping

Wasn’t that cos of All Might stopping the cube? Only the top tiers scale to Star’s jump iirc.

Proposal for Class E LS prime All Might :
In Two Heroes, All Might was able to use the force of his punches to stop the force of three of Wolfram's attacks over here,here and here. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that All Might can dish out his lifting strength with the strength of his punches. Therefore, using the x60 multiplier for weakened All Might's LS can give us a good estimate of prime All MIght's LS, just like we do for his AP (so 1.6275e+18N*60 = 9.765e+19N)

Unsure about this. We probably shouldn’t scale AP multipliers to lifting strength unless there is enough evidence that they can. I’m not sure whether this would be good enough but you’d have to see how staff respond to a CRT.

Planetary Range for Deku :
So even with the low end interpretation of the feat, it should still be very clear that Deku's range should be at least planetary, because the omni-directional shockwave isn't just traveling 10731km to USA, it's also traveling another 10731km in the opposite direction to the direction of USA. That is, if the shockwave traveled to the west of mount Fuji to reach USA, it would have also traveled to the east of mount Fuji to cover the same distance as it covered to reach USA. So the range is not the radius, but the diameter of the shockwave(21,462km, planetary).

I disagree. The radius is the distance from his fist. He can’t hit something from double the radius away from him. Like, if the opponent was 17000 km away from him, his shockwaves wouldn’t reach as they travel omnidirectionally away from Deku’s fist. We can see that clearly in the anime, where he is placed at the centre of the dispersed clouds. If he had a 21462km range he’d be able to hit something that far away with his shockwaves. I’m pretty sure we always use attack radius as the range for this reason.

 

[57Dev]

I wonder if anyone in MHA world ever wonders about the whole "Quirks are random genetic mutation" theory being absurdly wrong. Like no one tries to question why tf they can see ghosts and change reality if it's supposed to "mutations". It never comes up, the nature of quirks or why the exist. I am not saying we need a answer no, but we do need the question itself to be asked in story.

How deeply unsettling a conversation on that would be.

I would love to see different countries and how they coped with quirks. For example isolationist or theocracy based countries could have their leaders literally declare themselves chosen by god or god. We used to do it without superpowers, imagine a world with them.

 

[Machmatej]

I would love to see different countries and how they coped with quirks. For example isolationist or theocracy based countries could have their leaders literally declare themselves chosen by god or god. We used to do it without superpowers, imagine a world with them.

if quirks were as common in other countries, i don't think any leader would be boasting about having superpowers when most of the population is gonna be just like them. they'd need to have like a new order level quirk for people to actually see them as god-like. and i'd imagine the internet showing everyone people like star and all might is gonna make it hard to pretend to be god

 

[Qurbonboev]

So for now Deku(with 100%) and complete Shigaraki scale to 1.68c in speed. How good of speed boosts they have in total? Is it enough to contend with someone that can perception blitz guys, that scale to 2.47c?

 

[Machmatej]

So for now Deku(with 100%) and complete Shigaraki scale to 1.68c in speed. How good of speed boosts they have in total? Is it enough to contend with someone that can perception blitz guys, that scale to 2.47c?

you can argue shigaraki is a a blitz tier above the 1.68c value, and fa jin, gearshift and overlay can all individually be used to blitz or match an even faster shigaraki, so maybe they can close the gap?

 

[JoeDM021]

you can argue shigaraki is a a blitz tier above the 1.68c value, and fa jin, gearshift and overlay can all individually be used to blitz or match an even faster shigaraki, so maybe they can close the gap?

1.68c<<<(Blitz Tier) Shigaraki 2.01c (going by 1.2x standards if your far above someone in speed) <<<(Blitz Tier)Fa Jin Izuku 2.41c <<<(Blitz Tier) Gearshift Izuku 2.89c

 

[Machmatej]

1.68c<<<(Blitz Tier) Shigaraki 2.01c (going by 1.2x standards if your far above someone in speed) <<<(Blitz Tier)Fa Jin Izuku 2.41c <<<(Blitz Tier) Gearshift Izuku 2.89c

sure but that's like the bare minimum. it doesn't account for fa jin being able to nearly statue things initially on deku's level (which was actually calced to be a 24x speed increase), and gearshift being a greater speed amp than that. i wouldn't use this to say deku is dozens of times faster than light, but it should stand to reason that a 1.2x speed increase doesn't really do justice to how fast deku realistically got.

 

[Metalballrun]

All For One's Tomura key durability is still rated Continent level despite his body beginning to disintegrate when hit by Country level Deku.

 

[Therefir]

All For One's Tomura key durability is still rated Continent level despite his body beginning to disintegrate when hit by Country level Deku.

Ask @TheRustyOne. He listed AFO withstanding his own Impure Beam as a 6-A durability feat on Shigaraki's profile, so I will naturally apply the same feat to All For One while possessing Shigaraki.

AFO's vessel breaking apart also had to do with One For All being inside him, not just Deku's punch.

 

[JoeDM021]

sure but that's like the bare minimum. it doesn't account for fa jin being able to nearly statue things initially on deku's level (which was actually calced to be a 24x speed increase), and gearshift being a greater speed amp than that. i wouldn't use this to say deku is dozens of times faster than light, but it should stand to reason that a 1.2x speed increase doesn't really do justice to how fast deku realistically got.

i got another instance of deku saying if he used faux 100% (which is js a recreation of 100%) he'd reach the flying fortress from the island instantly and using the time it took him to get there originally then dividing it by 1, 5, and 10 seconds respectively the low end (10 seconds) ended up being 23.8x faster so its actually consistent for 45-100% to be around 24x in speed

 

[1000TonsofFun]

All For One's Tomura key durability is still rated Continent level despite his body beginning to disintegrate when hit by Country level Deku.

His body was being gradually broken down by One For All. The manga flashes back to All Might saying that an unprepared body would be destroyed by OFA whilst All For One is talking about how he didn’t notice the damage to his body. Then we get Deku’s “you’re facing the combined power of all nine of us” line to further illustrate that OFA’s power is what’s breaking All For One’s body down.

 

[Papusupreme]

Then we get Deku’s “you’re facing the combined power of all nine of us” line to further illustrate that OFA’s power is what’s breaking All For One’s body down.

9x multiplier making the thread rn

 

[TheRustyOne]

He listed AFO withstanding his own Impure Beam as a 6-A durability feat on Shigaraki's profile, so I will naturally apply the same feat to All For One while possessing Shigaraki.

It was a cool feat, and I was going under the assumption that Shigaraki's Durability and AP didn't stop synching up.

By that I mean the same thing would happen even if he was at full strength. Guess that didn't clarify well.

AFO is not Prime All Might level, period, during that entire final moment.

 

[Metalballrun]

AFO's vessel breaking apart also had to do with One For All being inside him, not just Deku's punch.

His body was being gradually broken down by One For All.

It's not exactly that AFAIK.
One For All has been mostly destroyed during the transfer (is what made AFO so upset in the first place). Deku had to adjust so that fragments of One For All would remain in All For One. The act of violent transfer itself is what ruined Tomura's body. Said fragments then resonated with Deku's Embers, resulting to the awakening of Yoichi, the rest of the OFA users and even Tomura/Tenko to help Deku finish AFO from the inside and out (which is after AFO's body already started disintegrating).

AFO was aware that his vessel was ruined (Chapter 419 and 423). He noticed that Super Regeneration wasn't working on top of dulling his senses that made him unaware that his body was actually doomed just like his spirit was.

AFO is not Prime All Might level, period, during that entire final moment.

So should AFO be 6-B, then? At least during that final battle? Or is he 6-B only when he got hit by Embers Deku?

 

[TheRustyOne]

So should AFO be 6-B, then? At least during that final battle? Or is he 6-B only when he got hit by Embers Deku?

Yeah. He shouldn't be 6-A in anything.

 

[Metalballrun]

Yeah thought so.
If there's a definitive 6-A AFO it would be when he was merged and in control of Tomura in the Sky Coffin, before Tomura managed to rebel and take control back.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Why do we have a key for a dying All For One in Shigaraki's body?

His body is literally collapsing, he lost Decay, and Super Regeneration isn't working.

We don't even have a key for Izuku with the Embers of One For All, and at least he kept that for a long time.

Do we even need this key?

 

[MusicRelaxing]

its because all for one (with brain cancer and decaying) is funny to put in vs matches (also remove it, it has no reason, it's literally him but dying).

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

We don't even have a key for Izuku with the Embers of One For All, and at least he kept that for a long time.

Well to be fair Embers OFA Deku did have a key for a few months but it got nuked lol

 

[Metalballrun]

I guess it is notable that All For One is in control of Tomura for the most part in by the end of the Paranormal War and before the end of the Sky Coffin fight.
Too many fans still mistake Sky Coffin Shigaraki as Tomura when AFO was the dominant personality during that time.

 

[Therefir]

I can't bother with CRT, I will delete that key.

 

[Gitagon]

School days is here. They switched up the arcs so School Days is gonna start next week from Vigs episode 6. Then I guess Sky Egg is gonna be the finale.

Garvey seems pretty impressive from the small clips of him we see.

 

[MANOFGOD7]

Unsure about this. We probably shouldn’t scale AP multipliers to lifting strength unless there is enough evidence that they can. I’m not sure whether this would be good enough but you’d have to see how staff respond to a CRT.

You see, the multiplier was not implied to be strictly for AP only, but it's only used for the AP section because it was stated during a moment where AP was his main focus. This is why I bring the suggestion that it's not a stretch to say that it could also apply to his LS, because in the movie he was able to use the power of his punches several times to exert LS, so it is quite sayable that his punches can also exert LS. So the scans of him stopping the forces of the bars and cubes of steel may not be enough?? I'll do the CRT after there's good chance that it'll get accepted.

I disagree. The radius is the distance from his fist. He can’t hit something from double the radius away from him. Like, if the opponent was 17000 km away from him, his shockwaves wouldn’t reach as they travel omnidirectionally away from Deku’s fist. We can see that clearly in the anime, where he is placed at the centre of the dispersed clouds. If he had a 21462km range he’d be able to hit something that far away with his shockwaves. I’m pretty sure we always use attack radius as the range for this reason.

You are absolutely right at your part. He cannot hit anything from double the radius away from him, but that would be the same case for a single direction shockwave with a 10731km range. Moreover, if this shockwave was to be a one directional shockwave, that means that for it to reach that country 10000km behind him, it'll have to travel a far greater distance, which is something the omnidirectional shockwave would not have to do. "His shockwaves wouldn't reach as they tra.........",this is also right, and in fact there's a theory that if an omnidirectional wave can be controlled and compressed into a single direction shockwave,the range and speed would be far greater.

TLDR : It's irrefutable that the shockwave has affected half of the planet already,and it has been said on the range pages that when the attack singlehandedly reaches this far, then the distance it has covered should be assigned to it. So, how should we account for this??

 

[1000TonsofFun]

You see, the multiplier was not implied to be strictly for AP only, but it's only used for the AP section because it was stated during a moment where AP was his main focus. This is why I bring the suggestion that it's not a stretch to say that it could also apply to his LS, because in the movie he was able to use the power of his punches several times to exert LS, so it is quite sayable that his punches can also exert LS. So the scans of him stopping the forces of the bars and cubes of steel may not be enough?? I'll do the CRT after there's good chance that it'll get accepted.

I think it probably is fair to scale him to this level as All Might only ever used OFA as a strength boost, it’s just whether staff accept it.

You are absolutely right at your part. He cannot hit anything from double the radius away from him, but that would be the same case for a single direction shockwave with a 10731km range. Moreover, if this shockwave was to be a one directional shockwave, that means that for it to reach that country 10000km behind him, it'll have to travel a far greater distance, which is something the omnidirectional shockwave would not have to do. "His shockwaves wouldn't reach as they tra.........",this is also right, and in fact there's a theory that if an omnidirectional wave can be controlled and compressed into a single direction shockwave,the range and speed would be far greater.

TLDR : It's irrefutable that the shockwave has affected half of the planet already,and it has been said on the range pages that when the attack singlehandedly reaches this far, then the distance it has cobered should be assigned to it. So, how should we account for this??

I’m still not sure. Omni-directional attacks like Sukuna and Gojo’s Domain Expansions still only scale to their radius rather than diameter and no one has attempted to change that afaik.

 

[Metalballrun]

School days is here. They switched up the arcs so School Days is gonna start next week from Vigs episode 6. Then I guess Sky Egg is gonna be the finale.

Garvey seems pretty impressive from the small clips of him we see.

IIRC there is gonna be a time skip after Sky Egg/School Days so it's better to end the season with a climactic story of the main plot rather than the Aizawa flashback.

 

[MANOFGOD7]

I think it probably is fair to scale him to this level as All Might only ever used OFA as a strength boost, it’s just whether staff accept it.

I see...

I shall propose it then.

I’m still not sure. Omni-directional attacks like Sukuna and Gojo’s Domain Expansions still only scale to their radius rather than diameter and no one has attempted to change that afaik.

Ah I see. I've gone to check the radius, and it is just 200m, so trying to grant them their full range with the diameter is not really doing much for them. But it's not the same for Deku at all. I could also just bring up the high end scaling, because it is more likely to be accepted when you provide the evidence. We've all known for a long time that Deku basically changed his planet's weather.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Lowkenuinely should Star and Stripe downscale from Prime AM tiers? She fought Shigaraki at 97% completion, with 75% (PLF War) being at 0.77c and 100% being at 1.68c, and also decent AP gaps to my knowledge. She admits her strength is not on par with Prime All Might, but that doesn’t mean she’s 60x weaker than him in my eyes

I don’t exactly know how we have the scaling chain but it seems clear she’s massively above everyone else in her tier. Do we really treat the 3% gap of Shigaraki’s stats as being as massive as we treat it on the profiles? (He doesn’t have a key but yk)

 

[BiggestOpp]

Lowkenuinely should Star and Stripe downscale from Prime AM tiers? She fought Shigaraki at 97% completion, with 75% (PLF War) being at 0.77c and 100% being at 1.68c, and also decent AP gaps to my knowledge. She admits her strength is not on par with Prime All Might, but that doesn’t mean she’s 60x weaker than him in my eyes

I don’t exactly know how we have the scaling chain but it seems clear she’s massively above everyone else in her tier. Do we really treat the 3% gap of Shigaraki’s stats as being as massive as we treat it on the profiles? (He doesn’t have a key but yk)

They knew Shigaraki had speed on par with Prime all might before they trapped him in the coffin, so that had to come from either the first war or when Star fought shiggy. Interpret that however you wish

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Lowkenuinely should Star and Stripe downscale from Prime AM tiers? She fought Shigaraki at 97% completion, with 75% (PLF War) being at 0.77c and 100% being at 1.68c, and also decent AP gaps to my knowledge. She admits her strength is not on par with Prime All Might, but that doesn’t mean she’s 60x weaker than him in my eyes

I don’t exactly know how we have the scaling chain but it seems clear she’s massively above everyone else in her tier. Do we really treat the 3% gap of Shigaraki’s stats as being as massive as we treat it on the profiles? (He doesn’t have a key but yk)

If I remember correctly. We accept the completion % referring to Shigaraki and AFO's merge/body take over and not him literally getting stronger until 100%

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

If I remember correctly. We accept the completion % referring to Shigaraki and AFO's merge/body take over and not him literally getting stronger until 100%

Huh I’ve never seen a mention on it but it would make sense

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Huh I’ve never seen a mention on it but it would make sense

It was in a old crt about why Dark Hero Deku would scale to Shigaraki and Star

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Does anyone have the chapter with the scans on Shigaraki’s completion percentage? Gonna try to find the raws and see if it’ll get anywhere

 

[TheRustyOne]

Lowkenuinely should Star and Stripe downscale from Prime AM tiers?

I don't think it's possible with the current scaling.

Shigaraki and the High-End were shown to have comparable durability. If someone wants the High-End to be a special tier with Prime All Might level durability, they'll need to provide evidence from the manga, which doesn't exist. (Although it wouldn't matter if the 60x multiplier were removed.)

Even without the 60x multiplier, Prime All Might level is stronger than Mirko, who can one-shot High-Ends, who are stronger than Weakened AFO and All Might.

Trying to scale Star to Prime All Might cannot fit with the current scaling. Nothing says Shigaraki from his battle against Star is Prime All Might level. His percentages were never stated to be about his strength. While we're never given an exact explanation about what the percentage means, we know that it involves the All For One Quirk.

That doesn't mean strength cannot be involved, but we don't know. I don't like making assumptions.

Jaku Shigaraki isn't Prime All Might level and is comparable to the High-Ends and the USJ Nomu.

Final War Arc Shigaraki has numerous statements placing him at Prime All Might level.

The Shigaraki that fought Star lies between them, but his durability places him around the level of a High-End. We know Star is inferior to Prime All Might. Without a direct statement/feat that puts Shigaraki on the level of Prime All Might or close, we cannot accept it.

 

[SuperStar]

 

[DBZMLP12345]

If by any chance the 60x Multiplier was ever removed, what would Prime Might, Complete Shigaraki Final Act Deku (Minus Fa jin and Gearshift) etc even scale to? Would it be something like this?

Weakened All Might Level Characters: 18.65 Teratons of TNT

Re-Destro’s Claustro: 27.97 Teratons of TNT

So would Prime All Might Level Characters just upscale from Claustro’s 27.97 Teratons?

Then Deku’s Gearshift and Fa jin would then be 139.85 Teratons aka High 6-B/Large Country Level?

Although at the same time Re-Destro being not that much weaker then Prime All Might Level would be kind of crazy….

 

[TheRustyOne]

Prime All Might level would scale above 27.97 Teratons of TNT by an unknown amount in that case.

You can probably say he'd one-shot them. At least, they'll one-shot 18.65 Teraton characters thanks to scaling above Mirko.