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A review of Yogiri’s Instant Death ability.
- Thread starter Azertyhuuh
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His power bypass conventional durability and his current AP is related to environmental destruction
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- #84
I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying and are just ignoring it, or not. Why don’t you understand that Yogiri can kill anything no matter what, and that he is the end of everything in his true form? Why do you keep ignoring this? I want an answer. He is the end of durability, the end of attack, magic, description, and everything. He can kill durability, power, concepts, and everything imaginable. He is the end of everything in his true form, and his killing ability allows him to kill anything regardless of its power or nature. So why do you still say that he only bypasses durability? I told you that he can destroy all parallel worlds and the entire Ultimate Ensemble and everything beyond it, and that there is nothing after him.
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I never said he can only bypass durability, you're just hyper focusing on the fact that he can destroy stuff, which I never said was wrong, but when he destroy stuff it's very specific. Like with the pocket dimension of Alice or the Space of the Celestial foundation.
You just can't argue with full AP for Yogiri as Reiner explained to you.
BoastJr
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Vsbw isn't always correct on things but well Tiktok and Reddit are also never correct on stuff all the time. Its a pick your poison at that point but I lean towards Vsbw because its more moderated
Well to answer that I think it falls under a few things
1. Yogiri's ability to kill anything would require extraordinary evidence as such with extraordinary claims. If Yogiri can kill everything it would require alot of Proof or some cosmological statement. Another way is Tier 0 but qualifiying for it wouls require stuff like Divine Simplicity (God cannot be reduced to smaller components), being compared to concepts like Nameless Tao etc
2. Yogiri being stated to be beyond descriptions and everything imaginable would need more proof to qualify for anything higher. Technically a 4D being is also beyond anything we can imagine and more statements or theories are needed if you want to argue it higher
3. There needs to be proof that the Ultimate Ensemble beyond parallel
Words to qualify for anything beyond 2-B / 2-A because I did hear it something about MWI but that was disproved iirc. Some ppl tried arguing All Possible Logical Worlds but that doesn't work either because nothing supports that it actualizes All Logical Worlds
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I talked with SweetDao about this in DMs. I believe it's possible for Yogiri to have a "At least 4-A, possibly 2-B Environmental Destruction" with powers, on the basis that, given that he has the range that spans the whole cosmology + the absolute capability of destroying anything he targets (including dimensions/universes, either by destroying the space between them or targetting them directly), he technically should at least be capable of destroying universes on the same scale that UEG did.
That being said, I would still rather wait for SweetDao to first make the solid 2-B/2-A cosmology thread and put this one on hold (or he could address Yogiri's ED on said CRT too, idk).
That being said, I would still rather wait for SweetDao to first make the solid 2-B/2-A cosmology thread and put this one on hold (or he could address Yogiri's ED on said CRT too, idk).
This is already the case. Just read the current cosmology page.
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The issue is that his ability can also cause destruction without environmental destruction, and this is what I proved to him. He completely destroyed a mass of ice, and he also destroyed a staff. His destructive ability directly destroys the target itself. If he wants to kill the universe, it will be destroyed; if he wants to kill the timeline, it will be destroyed, and so on. He can destroy everything, and he does not need to destroy space in order to destroy the universe—he can directly target the universe itself and destroy it. He is capable of killing anything, no matter what it is, and this is what I want to discuss.
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- #90
I just want to know this is simply a question why do you spend your whole time trying to downplay Instant Death? More than 100 posts of nothing but downgrading and removing, downgrading and removing. I just want to know the reason: what did Yogiri ever do to you?
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You're replying to yourself...
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For hax abilities that destroy structures, Environmental Destruction is a better fit for them (Example). Because when you use the hax to target someone directly, at that point it's no longer an AP thing whatsoever, and thus would not be listed in the tier/AP section. So only the ED aspect of the hax would be listed.
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You didn’t understand what I mean. I’m telling you that his ability can destroy the target directly, just like any anime character who destroys a universe or a dimension, and not through environmental destruction (i.e., destroying something else so that it causes destruction indirectly). He can kill the universe itself directly and erase it. He is capable of killing anything, no matter what it is.
He destroyed ice and destroyed physical objects, and he did so without relying on environmental destruction or indirect effects; he destroyed them the same way any attack destroys a target. Do you really call that environmental destruction?
Also, we all know that Yogiri’s ability is not merely “killing” or death manipulation. His true ability is to impose an absolute end on anything he targets, because death does not even apply to inanimate objects or material things. That’s why his power is to assign an end to anything whatsoever—even the concept of death itself. Even beings to whom the concept of death does not apply still “die” when he targets them, because he gives them an end. This is not natural death, but an absolute ending.
Even the concept of death itself has an end. In the end, he is the only one who remains, because he is the end—by the nature of his true form, which is the end of everything. Simply put, he imposes an end on whatever he targets. That is his ability, not “death,” because death and the concept of death are themselves part of his end.
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You are missing the point. Im not denying that Yogiri can target things directly. The issue is that afaik we dont list hax in the tier section unless it's through ED (as I've shown above). And since we know Yogiri's hax includes ED, that part of his hax gets listed, and not anything else. It's a site precedent/standard thing.
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Hhhh
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Don't slander the Goat, he will downgrade Anus to 11-C.
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Yes, I understand your point here perfectly, but you did not understand what I am aiming at exactly. Do you realize that an ability is also tied to the user’s power? You know that all abilities are connected to the strength of their user, right?
Take Zeno as an example. He has the ability to erase, yet he is extremely weak physically and in every other aspect; he is basically a child, even an infant in terms of power. However, his ability to erase anything and the fact that he cannot be killed within the work itself are what place him at that position in Dragon Ball. Are you ignoring this point?
What is the difference between infant Zeno and Yogiri? The former has the ability to erase everything, and the latter has the ability to impose an end on everything. What is the difference here?
Also, I will now give you proof of Yogiri’s own power itself, since you asked for it ↓
Here, as shown to you, there is a man who has complete freedom over the Abyss and can control it and do whatever he wants. The Abyss consists of three spatial dimensions in addition to a fourth spatial dimension, and it also contains a temporal dimension, since the man was aging inside it and would eventually starve to death. This makes the Abyss Low 1-C. However, the most important point is not this.
What truly matters is that this dimension allows anyone who can reach it to reach anywhere, no matter what. And the other important point is that Yogiri himself was able to reach this dimension and see everything within it. Not only that, but this dimension itself was a part of Yogiri’s very being. The Abyss itself exists within Yogiri’s own existence, as stated by the man who held authority over the Abyss.
Everything, all that can possibly exist, is a part of him; existence itself is a part of him. This Abyss itself is his existence. This proves that all of existence is nothing but a part of his true form. What is strange is not just this: Yogiri himself nullified the man’s authority to move freely within the Abyss, rendered him completely immobile above it, frozen without any movement, as if he were manipulating the Abyss itself.
The Abyss is nothing more than a part of his existence; it is a part of him. Everything is a part of him. He is the One within all, and this is in his true form. The moment he wished it, he revoked the man’s authority, stopped his movement, and left him alone until he died of hunger and thirst. The man stated that this power Yogiri possesses surpasses the entire Abyss itself, something beyond what the mind can comprehend.
Here, the discussion is about his sheer power, which transcends the limits of reason. The man could not believe the extent of his power. This is not about his killing ability, but about the magnitude of his power, which cannot be imagined or grasped by the mind. His power surpasses the Abyss in a way the mind cannot conceive, to the point that it renders everything as nothing. All of existence is a part of him, and all of this points to the concept of the One-in-All: Yogiri is the All in his true form, and also the end of everyth
ing↓
BoastJr
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Shallow Vernal also has alot of beyond comprehension and beyond comparison statements but we do not award her any tier higher then 1-A
Saitama webcomic is also intended to oneshot everything and has no clear feasible limits but we don't put him anywhere higher then his supposed limits
I understand what you mean, because the author of various works intends a character to never be defeated instory but that doesn't explicitly mean that we can attribute any tier higher then whats shown in story
Saitama webcomic is also intended to oneshot everything and has no clear feasible limits but we don't put him anywhere higher then his supposed limits
I understand what you mean, because the author of various works intends a character to never be defeated instory but that doesn't explicitly mean that we can attribute any tier higher then whats shown in story
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Goat I understand your point, I realise that I am inferior but alas I will try to possibly probably help you understand.
- • Abilities are crucial to a Character -> Yes
- In a VS matchup both P&A and Stats are considered (P&A most of the times are more important than stats)
- In the statistics section or the section which determines a tier only haxes that are tied with Environmental Destruction are listed.
- Yogiri's AP section already mentions such Haxes and the feats he achieved with them
Below Average Human level physically (Should be around ten years old), at least Multi-Solar System level with Environmental Destruction (Compares to his adult self), likely higher (Exist as "The End", "The Limiter" of the Ultimate Ensemble World, a being whose purpose is to regulate the world so that nothing can destroy it[17]. Whatever he deems unnecessary will end up being erased with no possibility of coming back
can bypass conventional durability with his power (His power enables him to effectively erase the Magical Power of anything[17], be it object or person[18], with said Magical Power acting as a personal concept for the subject concerned[19]. Killed UEG. Strong enough to kill the Ultimate God[17]. Exist as a law of the Ultimate Ensemble World[17]. Such laws are absolute and can't be bypassed under normal circumstances[66]), at least Multi-Solar System level with Environmental Destruction (Was shown to be able to destroy a pocket reality by destroying the space inside it[32], stated being able to potentially destroy a Celestial Foundation if he targeted space[67], likely able to destroy everything in between two Celestial Foundation, including multiple worlds[68]), likely higher (same as before) | At least Multi-Solar System level with Environmental Destruction,
can bypass conventional durability with his power (His power enables him to effectively erase the Magical Power of anything[17], be it object or person[18], with said Magical Power acting as a personal concept for the subject concerned[19]. Killed UEG. Strong enough to kill the Ultimate God[17]. Exist as a law of the Ultimate Ensemble World[17]. Such laws are absolute and can't be bypassed under normal circumstances[66]), at least Multi-Solar System level with Environmental Destruction (Was shown to be able to destroy a pocket reality by destroying the space inside it[32], stated being able to potentially destroy a Celestial Foundation if he targeted space[67], likely able to destroy everything in between two Celestial Foundation, including multiple worlds[68]), likely higher (same as before) | At least Multi-Solar System level with Environmental Destruction,
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- #101
I know this very well. I have sufficient evidence, and I am not trying to classify Yogiri as 1-A; rather, I believe he is Tier 0, not 1-A, and I will raise him to that level using the evidence present in the work itself.
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I wouldn't use Zeno as an example here for whataboutism. Dragonball works differently than other verses, last time i remember it being discussed that how Zeno's EE is tied to his Ki which is a UES in the verse. You will have to prove that yugurt hax is tied to some form UES or smth.
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Well, I gave you proof of this, that Yugiri's power is the power of his true form, that his true form is existence itself, that everything and all existence is a part of him, as I explained to you in the novel there. And apart from this, the man himself stated, apart from this ability of Yugiri, that his true form is his power beyond the mind. No one could imagine it. He could not believe the extent of his power. Even the abyss itself was a part of him. This man had freedom and power over the abyss, but the abyss itself was nothing but... Part of the existence of his true form in just one second, Yugiri canceled the man's authority and freedom inside the abyss because it is a part of him and he can do whatever he wants. The man himself declared that his power cannot believe something that is meaningless and cannot be imagined by the mind. Even the abyss, which he stated is a world that no person can reach, contains a fourth spatial dimension in addition to the possibility of there being a temporal erasure in it as well, given that this man was aging and starving inside the abyss. Rather, the entire final group is only a part of him. From this we can be certain that his form The real is all in one, that everything is a part of it, and this is what explains its necessity within the final group, as it was mentioned that if it did not exist, it would not have allowed the existence of any phenomenon or existence. It is necessary for existence itself, and without it, it will not remain and will not allow the existence of existence. It is one of the laws that makes existence possible, whatever it may be, and without it there would not be anything, whatever it may be. After all of this, its true form is also the end of all that (the end of everything), where everything returns to it after its end and death, and the absolute God is mentioned repeatedly. And again, it is indescribable and beyond the understanding of even an entity like the Absolute God, and it is the second most powerful god who has achieved the highest levels of absolute power in the series.
In short, what I'm trying to say is that Yugiri's true power is his true form, that his true form has power that the mind cannot imagine, to the point that he, the man who has power over the abyss, said such power has no meaning even to this dimension, and even this dimension is only a part of it.
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Hmmmm... I see what u are trying to say. Do u have evidence or scans for each thing u said here? Also please make it elaborative and with substance in one single post. By substance i mean scans for each claim you would be making, else it will be impossible for me to not be doubtfull of your words.
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Alright, as you wish, I will now provide evidence for what I am saying.
First, I will talk about the Abyss. As I mentioned to you, the Abyss contains a fourth spatial dimension, and it most likely also contains a timeline, since the man inside the Abyss was starving and aging until death ↓
Now let me introduce you to the character Yogiri. First of all, the Yogiri you see is not his true form. His true form is his actual, real existence, while the version we see in the work is merely an avatar↓
Now we will talk about his true form. His true form is unimaginably powerful—to the point that even the man who held authority over the Abyss trembled and could not believe the extent of his power. He could not even conceive it, and he realized that the entire Abyss itself was nothing more than a part of him ↓
Everything is a part of his true form, which makes the whole itself a part of him. What further supports this is that his true form is what allows any existence or phenomenon to exist, no matter what it is. If his existence were denied, no existence or phenomenon would be allowed to exist at all, which makes his true form a Necessary Being. He is one of the fundamental laws that make existence possible; without him, no existence or phenomenon would be allowed to exist ↓
His true form is indescribable, and even the Absolute God—who is the greatest deity in the series and the most powerful after Yogiri—cannot define or describe his identity ↓
His true form exists everywhere and at all times. ↓
His true form is the end of everything↓
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This does not prove what he asked
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Peak
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Its not exactly what i asked (UES), yes, but he seems to have evidence clear enuf for the points he is trying to prove. which is that Yujiri's true form is indeed all of existence and non-existence. I am not familiar with the verse but i seems to agree with his this point.
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U using my discord gif as pfp, u got no rights.Minor Spelling Mistake GIF - Minor Spelling Mistake - Discover & Share GIFs
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Except, that's not the case. It's stated directly that he is a law of the UEW. That he act as a stopper for the verse/that he has existed since the beginning of it.
It's on his profile really.
Omnipresence/being stronger than everyone/erasing stuff is just a consequence of that.
There are others laws of the UEW like the one that makes Gods immune to damage and such so that's not like it's solely for him either (well, what HE DOES is unique, but not the state of being one could say).
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I'm mostly in agreement with Oblivion of the Endless.
Also we literally had a discussion about state of being not necessary scales to AP. From Yogiri profile, he is only an abstract law that omnipresent across the cosmology. An abstract being mean he is literally a non-physical being, that, unless he is a Low 1-A or a 1-A abstraction, will not scales to the entire cosmology without feats or statement, cause non-physical being mean he is lacking matertial quality.
At least dude must be the entire cosmology itself, a HDE being in order to be scaled to the entire cosmology as in such state, his existence having a physical quality to scale it to AP
Also we literally had a discussion about state of being not necessary scales to AP. From Yogiri profile, he is only an abstract law that omnipresent across the cosmology. An abstract being mean he is literally a non-physical being, that, unless he is a Low 1-A or a 1-A abstraction, will not scales to the entire cosmology without feats or statement, cause non-physical being mean he is lacking matertial quality.
At least dude must be the entire cosmology itself, a HDE being in order to be scaled to the entire cosmology as in such state, his existence having a physical quality to scale it to AP
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I see, nvm then i suppose.
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- #114
Dude, stop twisting the work already. Do you have some kind of psychological issue, or do you simply not understand?
It was explicitly stated that he is the end of everything, that everything is a part of him, and that if he did not exist, no existence or phenomenon would be allowed to exist at all. Why are you also ignoring the words of the Absolute God, who stated that his true form is indescribable? And what about his statements that this true form is one of the laws governing the emergence of the greater world—are those not real or not valid either?
He himself said that he does not know exactly what he is and is not certain, then later said that he is one of the laws, then spoke of his end, and after that stated that he is completely indescribable. Why are you ignoring all of this?
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You literally repeated what I said man...
He never stated he was indescribable tho.
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What he is saying is not true; he is only telling you what he wants you to hear.
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Can you please calm down and stop insulting people?
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Well thats what exactly what everyone do. They say what they want us to hear. I am listening to you too. So tell me. If he is everything, why he was called just a law in UEG? I don't want to hear all that "everything is part of him again blah blah blah". I wil tell you exactly what you need to address with scans or explaination.
So tell me, why he was said to exist as a law of UEG, when he is supposed to be everything and not just law. Can u explain this contradiction?
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Oh yeah, I completely bypassed that, but right, Azerty, quit the whole insulting people, this is the last time I'll tell you. Next time, I'll just report you, I don't care.
I don't mind exchanging with you, but if every answer is just an amalgamation of insults and repeats of earlier statements, there is no point.
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I am giving you official warning to not continue the discussion with this attitude any further. One more post like this insulting others and i will report you for further punishment.
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