SuperMarioGamers3
He/Him- 252
- 270
BUP. Anyhow, since my last CRT, yet again, went into some intense debate, I'm going to repost this CRT with some extra stuff. Since Super Mario 64 had a ton of contention that can be debated later, I'll throw in the other stuff that can be discussed and wasn't argued again much.
While reading everything I have to say, I would recommend everybody have this video on.
(Bonus Note: Even non-scalers interpret it like that).
Now, of course, there are already a massive heap of objections everyone will naturally have to this; but let’s have us a solid look at the context of the situation:
In this, Mario and crew create a world built upon their own dreams (which would entail it was made OF their dreams), which are elaborated on in future games as their own separate universes. But let’s see an example of one of these many worlds they created; such as Space Land!
Space Land is referred to as “Deep Space” by the Koopa Troopa, and the Japanese Version goes even FURTHER to claim that they brought peace to the Universe.
“うちゅうのへいわ！”
(Translation: “Peace in the universe!”)
This is also elaborated upon the description of Space Land in the Japanese Version:
“「スペースランド」 むずかしさ ☆☆ うちゅうパトロールになって ぎんがのへいわを まもりましょう。”
(Translation: “‘Space Land’ — Difficulty: ☆☆ Become a space patrol and protect peace in the galaxy.”)
“うちゅうのへいわをまもって スペースランドのスーパースターを めざしましょう!”
(Translation: "Protect the peace of the universe and aim to become to superstar of Space Land!”)
(LuckyEmile Notes: The Koopa is pretty much saying that there appears to be signs of conflict in this peaceful universe once again, and so the people of the universe either need a Superstar or are looking for one, and he'd like them to act as the Superstar. The Snifit says he'll chase people to the end of the universe (宇宙の果て) >:3).
“宇宙の不思議”.
(Translation + LuckyEmilie Notes: “It says 宇宙の不思議... mysteries of the universe. This page is specifically about "mysterious stuff from Space Land's board" in this context, so it just solidifies that Space Land is a universe.)
https://youtu.be/WSCiqPUT7Kk?si=Muw3g0LXYYWfikBr&t=275
https://youtu.be/y-heSia7xLs?t=119
This should also make the idea that Bowser can take on a base Anstasma more realistic, who’s current state of being was caused in part by the fact he consumed nightmares.
https://youtu.be/WSCiqPUT7Kk?si=H7kME_rV75xkyxoA&t=15
https://youtu.be/YTkZXmkQfds?t=1324
In both of these, Mario can, at the very least, keep up with this powerful incarnation of Antasma for a good period of time, which would make his battle with Dreamy Bowser much more believable as a whole.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/wario-tanks-the-destruction-of-the-universe-but-not-really.120287/
Well, the evidence was a tad off, since…
“Black Jewel's AP section claims that he created a universe. The evidence comes from Nintendo's European website which states: “While Wario rests, the Jewel begins to morph his treasure trove into a melee of monsters, transforming the basement of Wario's castle into a bizarre parallel universe.”
Well, we actually found some additional sources for that! The JAPANESE Website!
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gwwj/tengoku/index.html
さらに、黒い宝石は自分達の王国をつくろうとワリオ城を不思議な世界にしてしまいました。
(Translation: “Furthermore, the Black Jewel turned Wario Castle into a mysterious world in an attempt to create its own kingdom.”)
We can also use the English Manual to somewhat back this up:
https://****************/file/d/1revn1B_lwcWz5cgFNvyND1ZKn6OE7Zn6/view?usp=sharing
“And was changing Wario’s world into quite a weird place”.
This is further elaborated upon in the very intro of the game itself, where we see the Black Jewel exert its power, while Wario is flung across into this new world.
https://youtu.be/XVWQ0bmMFfA?si=7Y6oNsE6nq1HvvTC&t=87
Now, there was a common counter, as displayed here:
"It was argued in a previous thread that Black Jewel's attacks should scale to his creation. Although, for a reality warping feat to scale to energy attacks or physicals, we need some kind of proof, which I can't find anywhere. He also stated that he was filled with power to the level where it was overflowing. We also see red sparkles coming out of him all the while until he transforms Wario's basement into a universe. It seems that this reality warping needs him to be at his absolute max, and we don't see any such visual effects during his other energy or physical attacks where he simply shoots a fire laser from his eye."
This… isn’t much of an argument. Firstly, it does not say, “overflowing” but rather “chock-full”. Perhaps not a difference you may not see as relevant, but absolutely an exaggeration. But here’s the deal; here’s how they see Wario:
He’s called a “Greedy Sap”. which is interesting considering that this character gains their power via the wishes and desires of other people, which someone like Wario was PLENTY of. This means that the Black Jewel is gaining much of his power through Wario’s sheer greed and lust, which is exemplified, since the Black Jewel fight happens within Wario’s presence. Odd to say they wouldn’t still have access to such power.
(LuckyEmile Notes: Probably just Wario. They mentioned it’s been sealed for so long everyone forgot about it, so I don’t think anyone was able to get near enough to the Black Jewel to be fed off, so Wario is really just their only fuel source! Like… you could be like “oh, between finding it and taking it home, maybe Wario carried it past people” but, like, you know. Maybe you’re splitting hairs then and not like we can say for sure he did pass anyone by. The English manual mentions some red moon was relevant here too but I dunno what they were going with with that)
I think that all this is enough to really solidify this feat as a valid one.
LUCKYEMILIE CONTENT SURPRISE!
It’s been noted that the Black Jewel might not qualify for Universal Energy Systems standards. The easiest route to qualifying for this is the “Limited Energy Systems”, which requests either showings that the powers we wish to scale use the same power source and the amount of power invested is roughly the same, or to show that the power invested is similar should the user wish. To start from the top, the Black Jewel is said to turn people’s desire into power, being described as a 人のヨクボウを食べて チカラとする魔の黒い宝石 (demonic black jewel that eats people’s yokubou for power). This establishes its power source in question, but does it qualify? We’re told a greedy treasure hunter or よくばりなトレジャーハンター (Yokubarina treasure hunter, the kanji for yokubou (欲望) and yokubari (欲張り) notably sharing the first kanji to play into a connection between desire and greed if that wasn’t clear enough) stole the Black Jewel, who is none other than WARIO-SAMA himself. Considering the Black Jewel was hid away deep within ancient ruins and forgotten with time, and Wario has been shown to travel off the beaten track when treasure hunting (his end destination was a castle with only him in it too, so he likely avoided people entirely on this trek), it’s likely the Black Jewel only really had Wario to feed off, especially with the narrative playing in to this connection between the power source and Wario’s greed by mentioning them in the same scene. The Black Jewel, having been well fed by Wario, tilts back and is covered with energy particles as it performs the feat. In order to form shockwaves, engulf itself in flames and create fire and chests, it once again tilts back and is covered with energy particles. This would be a showcase of the amount of power it takes between the feat and abilities being roughly the same.
However, can we say it’s the same power source? Well, as it uses people’s desire and greed for power, and we all know WARIO-SAMA is in no shortage of that, when in the presence of Wario (to feed off) and in combat, the Black Jewel would be in need of power. And even though it mentions being chock-full of power in the intro, a Spriteling tells Wario “That evil black jewel you stole is sucking up all of the negative greed energy swirling around in your castle, and terrible things are starting to happen” (consistent with Japanese オマエのうばった黒い宝石がワリオ城にうずまくヨクバリエネルギーをすってまた わるいことをはじめたんだ・“The Black Jewel you stole is absorbing the yokubari enerugii swirling around Wario Castle and is starting to do something bad”), showing the Black Jewel is still absorbing power. The opening cutscene makes it pretty clear Wario essentially lives alone in Wario Castle (as well as the endings and general lack of anyone else being affected by what happened to the castle), this so-called negative greed energy is likely a byproduct of Wario inhabiting the place, and thus sourced from him. And since the Black Jewel just spends the whole game hiding inside a huge treasure chest, it’s not like it’s expended any of this energy, so its conditions at the start and end of the game have no reason to not be comparable. So, considering its feat fed off THE GENEROUS AND GIVING WARIO-SAMA’s greed and desire, and it continued to feed off this same negative greed energy throughout the game, it still has access to this power source for the abilities shown in the final battle as per Limited Energy System requirements.
That’s all well and good, but what’s the scale of the feat? Well, we at least know we’re dealing with a 世界 this time, being mentioned clearly within the feat (specifically: さらに、黒い宝石は自分達の王国をつくろうとワリオ城を不思議な世界にしてしまいました at the end). Any objections based on Mario being liberal with the use of the word “world” fall short thanks to this, as the Japanese games seem to use the romaji WORLD (which then get elaborated on as ワールド１・Waarudo１(obligatory), not 世界１・せかい１・Sekai 1) making the distinction clear in the Japanese games. To elaborate on it truly not being a meta joke on how levels are often called worlds, not only is it talking about the setting of the entire game (SMB1 wasn’t set in one world, but worlds 1 through 8 for comparison, so to say a game with multiple themed areas only has one “world” wouldn’t seem to add up), but the back of the box refers to the levels as ステージ (stages) - ユニークな敵キャラと多彩なステージ! (Unique enemy characters and varied/all kinds of stages!). I couldn’t find the Japanese manual, but page 20 of the English manual notes levels are called stages and areas in this game, not worlds, consistent with the back of the box. (The game itself doesn’t really seem to give any indication of nomenclature). So even if 世界 did mean World 1-1, the reference/joke wouldn’t work for this game.
A risky strategy from here would be to peer into our canon rules. These rules have reportedly been so butchered in this thread that I’d like to treat them with respect here. Even the most distant of canon, tertiary canon, can be fair game on this wiki: “In addition a tertiary canon will be allowed. The tertiary canon consists of official adaptations not overseen by the author, which do not modify or contradict source material.” And important to note: “Should by judging the feat through primary or secondary canon a different result be reached than for tertiary canon the result of primary or secondary canon will have priority”. With that said, the wiki at least allows use of these more distant sources, but rather than use this to bring up a guidebook to bolster my claims, I’ll bring up Nintendo’s website. Nintendo’s website hosts the Mario Portal, which does update itself to be lore accurate, so if a claim on said website is wrong, Nintendo has every opportunity to update it. Now the Wario World page on the website has no real Japanese counterpart: Japan got what is essentially a website dedicated to Wario World, whilst the English just got this one page, making this the original text. We don’t have to deal with the issue of translations, but we do have to deal with the issue that (even if released in the West first), Wario World is a Japanese game, however tertiary canon rules at least allow this as long as it doesn’t go wild. So, the claim is that “the jewel begins to morph his treasure trove into a melee of monsters, transforming the basement of Wario's castle into a bizarre parallel universe”. This is pretty consistent with the Japanese plot descriptions, the “bizarre” adjective even mirroring the “不思議な世界” wording, and 世界 can mean universe. The fact it’s a “parallel universe” might hurt my claim, as the Japanese doesn’t seem to have gone as far as to note “parallel”, and if that’s enough to shut my suggestion down so be it, though I can see this as just a fleshing out or elaboration, rather than full-on modification or contradiction. A parallel universe is still a type of 世界 (it’s still a universe, just a specific type), so essentially the English website is telling us exactly what type we’re dealing with, rather than attempting to alter the lore. And we do see a sun and stars in the sky in the game (in a comical sort of way but they did promise this world was bizarre!) to at least entertain the idea of a grand scale, being warped by the Black Jewel’s presence to show it is still under its dominion. (For some added humour and not a real point, there’s also a guidebook that claims the Black Jewel is causing the apocalypse in this scene, causing not just Treasure Square but THE WORLD to crumble, but I think bringing that up might be pushing my luck!). But since that might not meet our universe standards, it’s worth pointing out this whacky sky isn’t typical of the game: a moonlit night, a blue sky at day, an aurora with visible stars and an evening where the stars are starting to come out are all seen in the game without the same odd behaviour as Treasure Square. With the fact the sunset works as expected and auroras are caused by solar activity, it should be safe to say a real star is needed for these, indicating these stars do behave as we’d expect rather than being a cartoony set piece or paintings in the sky. Their visual presence and behaviour in the game at least shows that the website’s claim of scale isn’t unfounded (yes, I’m aware 4-A scale also allows for this, but it doesn’t deny universal levels of size). And again, if this 世界 wasn’t intended to be a universe, Nintendo has had every chance to alter this website to be more lore accurate as they have done in the past with contradictions, something they can’t really do with a guidebook or in-game translation, yet I remember this statement being brought up in 2021, unchanged. (Especially since Wario World is now on NSO, so clearly Nintendo didn’t forget about the game and should have their eye on how the website describes it again). So, I would posit that this website is merely trying to aid us in getting a sense of scale when the word “world” is tossed around, rather than attempting to add new details to the lore, which would fall in line with the canon rules, as it being a “world” never ruled out this rating, merely being the upper bounds of what we could claim.
Even if I’m wrong and this does violate the guidelines, I think it was a good idea that I at least pushed it out there, because I do think from what I’ve read that it does fall in line with UES and canon guidelines to create a whole story where the Black Jewel can earn this rating. The tertiary canon rules claim “Any changes based on tertiary canon will only be accepted if they are not contradicted by any instances of another canon, with regards to either the character power-scale, or logical inconsistencies (and plot holes).”, and I don’t think it’s exactly a contradiction here as a lesser reading for how big the 世界/world is seems to be absent, making this our sole hint/elaboration. I’m not entirely sure if the “all determinations continue to be made on a case-by-case basis, with these criteria serving as guidelines rather than an exhaustive standard” rule can apply here too, but the idea of case-by-case letting the fact Nintendo’s website is regulated in an attempt to be as accurate to lore as possible would be something I’d be optimistic about, even with the glaring “parallel” issue.
This is then exemplified as he is called; “この世の悪の全てをすべる者” (Controller of all evil in the world).
All of this is brought together within his Japanese and English incarnations;
https://youtu.be/2mhbIG3dmzQ?t=40
(Translation: O travelers who appear before me…. I am Crystaller, ruler of all evil in this world. On this spot, I feel and resonate with fluctuations emitted from a dimensional rift. You living ones before me… Why do you possess thickness? Why do you have such solidity? I am made of the power of evil. My form is depicted on naught but a flat surface. Yet you are formed from a power foreign to me. I wish to know the secret of the solid world! I shall fight with the utmost of my power. Now, demonstrate your might!)
After some combat, he then says…
https://youtu.be/2mhbIG3dmzQ?t=61
(Translation: I am formed from the supreme power. None in this world surpass me. Across time, from this world’s beginning to its end, I am the inheritor of the ultimate of Two. Now you will realize my strength!! Come forth, o power that rules over all creation!!).
This also fits within the context of the English Version;
https://youtu.be/30DyYkoNH9Q?t=42
“I am antimatter… I can see your past… I can see your future… I consume time…”.
This is completely and utterly confirmed in the Switch remake of the game, where these themes are supported;
https://youtu.be/InBJDaNh69Y?t=47 ← He says the exact same thing as last time.
https://youtu.be/4vDamuVTVmg?t=60 ← The exact same thing.
Why no, it does not matter what his physiology is “2D”, these statements are uncontradicted, and on top of that, “2D” and “3D” are defined in an interesting way here.
He says that he’s “made of the power of evil. My form is depicted on naught but a flat surface”.
But when he talks about Mario’s 3D World, he says…
“The power of the third dimension is that power of legend. The power said to far surpass the fluctuations of evil. Love, friendship, joy…. The power of hope for peace…. It appears this strength is too much for me.”
In conclusion… yea. Culex is certainly 3-A or higher, it’s so blatant that I may as well say that arguments against this might be considered raw copium. This would apply to Mario, Peach, Bowser, Mallow and Geno since they were able to take down Culex, and all of them are able to damage and tank hits from him respectively.
MARIO PARTY 5:
Well, well, well… I talked about this a lot during my original 2-A CRT, but my CRT still had some weight, as I was able to prove that the Star Spirits created the Dream Depot itself, which should absolutely contains tons of Dreams (i.e Universes);
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gp5j/cnt_1/tip04.html
Bowser should scale at or above the Star Spirits, since they needed the help of Mario and Crew to take him down, to which Bowser was going to destroy the dreams and replace them with his own, as stated by Misstar & Bowser;
https://youtu.be/tjT0yeA050E?t=241
https://youtu.be/tjT0yeA050E
He also states this again in game, SO MANY DARN TIMES.
(Translation: "Bwahaha! I’ll destroy this Sweet Dream and turn it into my own, you heeear!!") <-- Repeat that, but change the description of the dream.
(LuckyEmilie Notes: Looking to the Mario Party 5 section of the Japanese Nintendo website for anything further, I found a summary of the story. It notes that Bowser "started to do evil things" and taunts "If you want to save the world of dreams, you'll have to fight us!!", which basically confirms the idea that he's doing it to lure in powerful challengers to grant the wish he's had for many years of fighting someone strong. As for Misstar's claim about people being able to dream again after Bowser's defeat, in Japanese she says "Thanks to you, everyone's dreams were protected. With this, everyone throughout the world can dream with peace of mind, my dear. ... ... Today, as it has been before, I'm sure everyone's wonderful dreams will come and gather in Dream Depot." ( なたのおかげで、 みんなの夢は守られました/護られました。 これで、 世界中の誰もがあんし んして夢見ることができるわ。 ...きょうもユメミールには、すてきな夢が集まって来るで). Whilst she says that people can now dream "with a clear mind" or "without worry", implying that it's not that people couldn't dream but would just not have a very nice experience when dreaming, she goes on to say about how Dream Depot will continue to be a place where dreams can come together once again, which seems to suggest they wouldn't have been able to otherwise, so it does seem pretty consistent that Bowser was a threat to Dream Depot's entirety and stopped dreams from gathering there).
Uh... yeah, same conclusion as last time, the cast is 3-A or higher! Thanks to LuckyEmile!
And if you wanna talk to a knowledgeable Mario man, see Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)!
While reading everything I have to say, I would recommend everybody have this video on.
MARIO PARTY 2:
Now, this is some very interesting territory that we’re entering here, as LuckyEmile so interestingly pointed out to me. She points out that the Mario cast (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Wario and Donkey Kong) create their own world;(Bonus Note: Even non-scalers interpret it like that).
Now, of course, there are already a massive heap of objections everyone will naturally have to this; but let’s have us a solid look at the context of the situation:
In this, Mario and crew create a world built upon their own dreams (which would entail it was made OF their dreams), which are elaborated on in future games as their own separate universes. But let’s see an example of one of these many worlds they created; such as Space Land!
Space Land is referred to as “Deep Space” by the Koopa Troopa, and the Japanese Version goes even FURTHER to claim that they brought peace to the Universe.
“うちゅうのへいわ！”
(Translation: “Peace in the universe!”)
This is also elaborated upon the description of Space Land in the Japanese Version:
“「スペースランド」 むずかしさ ☆☆ うちゅうパトロールになって ぎんがのへいわを まもりましょう。”
(Translation: “‘Space Land’ — Difficulty: ☆☆ Become a space patrol and protect peace in the galaxy.”)
https://****************/file/d/1K97EJ-Np2VpEpLTnGgQ6kchEk0DDbMTz/view
“うちゅうのへいわをまもって スペースランドのスーパースターを めざしましょう!”
(Translation: "Protect the peace of the universe and aim to become to superstar of Space Land!”)
https://****************/file/d/1gjtLbROhj3pQI6K5msSLnN3oUDe3LadH/view
https://****************/file/d/1uxXnPw8pg5NGvrdrQ8FMGqK3YQS5972N/view
https://****************/drive/u/4/folders/1jyDTV1vDWOUdQrlS44j3l3yeC2GMl3Hg
https://****************/drive/u/4/folders/1jyDTV1vDWOUdQrlS44j3l3yeC2GMl3Hg
(LuckyEmile Notes: The Koopa is pretty much saying that there appears to be signs of conflict in this peaceful universe once again, and so the people of the universe either need a Superstar or are looking for one, and he'd like them to act as the Superstar. The Snifit says he'll chase people to the end of the universe (宇宙の果て) >:3).
https://****************/file/d/1sShpwQ-aPBjpT_AuEB2pvlybdMYTFikF/view
“宇宙の不思議”.
(Translation + LuckyEmilie Notes: “It says 宇宙の不思議... mysteries of the universe. This page is specifically about "mysterious stuff from Space Land's board" in this context, so it just solidifies that Space Land is a universe.)
Mario & Luigi: Dream Team:
Well, well, well… this is an interesting one. While most of the scaling has already been done in CRTs again and again, this is just going to be a simple one, as I (which was mentioned in another CRT) can prove that Base Mario alone can scale to Dreamy Antasma… check this out:https://youtu.be/WSCiqPUT7Kk?si=Muw3g0LXYYWfikBr&t=275
https://youtu.be/y-heSia7xLs?t=119
This should also make the idea that Bowser can take on a base Anstasma more realistic, who’s current state of being was caused in part by the fact he consumed nightmares.
https://youtu.be/WSCiqPUT7Kk?si=H7kME_rV75xkyxoA&t=15
https://youtu.be/YTkZXmkQfds?t=1324
In both of these, Mario can, at the very least, keep up with this powerful incarnation of Antasma for a good period of time, which would make his battle with Dreamy Bowser much more believable as a whole.
WARIO WORLD:
Ooooh, another interesting one. Many right now believe Wario has no known scaling to the Black Jewel himself due to this:https://vsbattles.com/threads/wario-tanks-the-destruction-of-the-universe-but-not-really.120287/
Well, the evidence was a tad off, since…
“Black Jewel's AP section claims that he created a universe. The evidence comes from Nintendo's European website which states: “While Wario rests, the Jewel begins to morph his treasure trove into a melee of monsters, transforming the basement of Wario's castle into a bizarre parallel universe.”
Well, we actually found some additional sources for that! The JAPANESE Website!
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gwwj/tengoku/index.html
さらに、黒い宝石は自分達の王国をつくろうとワリオ城を不思議な世界にしてしまいました。
(Translation: “Furthermore, the Black Jewel turned Wario Castle into a mysterious world in an attempt to create its own kingdom.”)
We can also use the English Manual to somewhat back this up:
https://****************/file/d/1revn1B_lwcWz5cgFNvyND1ZKn6OE7Zn6/view?usp=sharing
“And was changing Wario’s world into quite a weird place”.
This is further elaborated upon in the very intro of the game itself, where we see the Black Jewel exert its power, while Wario is flung across into this new world.
https://youtu.be/XVWQ0bmMFfA?si=7Y6oNsE6nq1HvvTC&t=87
Now, there was a common counter, as displayed here:
"It was argued in a previous thread that Black Jewel's attacks should scale to his creation. Although, for a reality warping feat to scale to energy attacks or physicals, we need some kind of proof, which I can't find anywhere. He also stated that he was filled with power to the level where it was overflowing. We also see red sparkles coming out of him all the while until he transforms Wario's basement into a universe. It seems that this reality warping needs him to be at his absolute max, and we don't see any such visual effects during his other energy or physical attacks where he simply shoots a fire laser from his eye."
This… isn’t much of an argument. Firstly, it does not say, “overflowing” but rather “chock-full”. Perhaps not a difference you may not see as relevant, but absolutely an exaggeration. But here’s the deal; here’s how they see Wario:
https://****************/file/d/12HdSl6t8ccfQL0zEQdWnKYUVMRGAH02R/view
https://****************/file/d/1revn1B_lwcWz5cgFNvyND1ZKn6OE7Zn6/view
https://****************/file/d/12HdSl6t8ccfQL0zEQdWnKYUVMRGAH02R/view
He’s called a “Greedy Sap”. which is interesting considering that this character gains their power via the wishes and desires of other people, which someone like Wario was PLENTY of. This means that the Black Jewel is gaining much of his power through Wario’s sheer greed and lust, which is exemplified, since the Black Jewel fight happens within Wario’s presence. Odd to say they wouldn’t still have access to such power.
(LuckyEmile Notes: Probably just Wario. They mentioned it’s been sealed for so long everyone forgot about it, so I don’t think anyone was able to get near enough to the Black Jewel to be fed off, so Wario is really just their only fuel source! Like… you could be like “oh, between finding it and taking it home, maybe Wario carried it past people” but, like, you know. Maybe you’re splitting hairs then and not like we can say for sure he did pass anyone by. The English manual mentions some red moon was relevant here too but I dunno what they were going with with that)
I think that all this is enough to really solidify this feat as a valid one.
LUCKYEMILIE CONTENT SURPRISE!
It’s been noted that the Black Jewel might not qualify for Universal Energy Systems standards. The easiest route to qualifying for this is the “Limited Energy Systems”, which requests either showings that the powers we wish to scale use the same power source and the amount of power invested is roughly the same, or to show that the power invested is similar should the user wish. To start from the top, the Black Jewel is said to turn people’s desire into power, being described as a 人のヨクボウを食べて チカラとする魔の黒い宝石 (demonic black jewel that eats people’s yokubou for power). This establishes its power source in question, but does it qualify? We’re told a greedy treasure hunter or よくばりなトレジャーハンター (Yokubarina treasure hunter, the kanji for yokubou (欲望) and yokubari (欲張り) notably sharing the first kanji to play into a connection between desire and greed if that wasn’t clear enough) stole the Black Jewel, who is none other than WARIO-SAMA himself. Considering the Black Jewel was hid away deep within ancient ruins and forgotten with time, and Wario has been shown to travel off the beaten track when treasure hunting (his end destination was a castle with only him in it too, so he likely avoided people entirely on this trek), it’s likely the Black Jewel only really had Wario to feed off, especially with the narrative playing in to this connection between the power source and Wario’s greed by mentioning them in the same scene. The Black Jewel, having been well fed by Wario, tilts back and is covered with energy particles as it performs the feat. In order to form shockwaves, engulf itself in flames and create fire and chests, it once again tilts back and is covered with energy particles. This would be a showcase of the amount of power it takes between the feat and abilities being roughly the same.
However, can we say it’s the same power source? Well, as it uses people’s desire and greed for power, and we all know WARIO-SAMA is in no shortage of that, when in the presence of Wario (to feed off) and in combat, the Black Jewel would be in need of power. And even though it mentions being chock-full of power in the intro, a Spriteling tells Wario “That evil black jewel you stole is sucking up all of the negative greed energy swirling around in your castle, and terrible things are starting to happen” (consistent with Japanese オマエのうばった黒い宝石がワリオ城にうずまくヨクバリエネルギーをすってまた わるいことをはじめたんだ・“The Black Jewel you stole is absorbing the yokubari enerugii swirling around Wario Castle and is starting to do something bad”), showing the Black Jewel is still absorbing power. The opening cutscene makes it pretty clear Wario essentially lives alone in Wario Castle (as well as the endings and general lack of anyone else being affected by what happened to the castle), this so-called negative greed energy is likely a byproduct of Wario inhabiting the place, and thus sourced from him. And since the Black Jewel just spends the whole game hiding inside a huge treasure chest, it’s not like it’s expended any of this energy, so its conditions at the start and end of the game have no reason to not be comparable. So, considering its feat fed off THE GENEROUS AND GIVING WARIO-SAMA’s greed and desire, and it continued to feed off this same negative greed energy throughout the game, it still has access to this power source for the abilities shown in the final battle as per Limited Energy System requirements.
That’s all well and good, but what’s the scale of the feat? Well, we at least know we’re dealing with a 世界 this time, being mentioned clearly within the feat (specifically: さらに、黒い宝石は自分達の王国をつくろうとワリオ城を不思議な世界にしてしまいました at the end). Any objections based on Mario being liberal with the use of the word “world” fall short thanks to this, as the Japanese games seem to use the romaji WORLD (which then get elaborated on as ワールド１・Waarudo１(obligatory), not 世界１・せかい１・Sekai 1) making the distinction clear in the Japanese games. To elaborate on it truly not being a meta joke on how levels are often called worlds, not only is it talking about the setting of the entire game (SMB1 wasn’t set in one world, but worlds 1 through 8 for comparison, so to say a game with multiple themed areas only has one “world” wouldn’t seem to add up), but the back of the box refers to the levels as ステージ (stages) - ユニークな敵キャラと多彩なステージ! (Unique enemy characters and varied/all kinds of stages!). I couldn’t find the Japanese manual, but page 20 of the English manual notes levels are called stages and areas in this game, not worlds, consistent with the back of the box. (The game itself doesn’t really seem to give any indication of nomenclature). So even if 世界 did mean World 1-1, the reference/joke wouldn’t work for this game.
A risky strategy from here would be to peer into our canon rules. These rules have reportedly been so butchered in this thread that I’d like to treat them with respect here. Even the most distant of canon, tertiary canon, can be fair game on this wiki: “In addition a tertiary canon will be allowed. The tertiary canon consists of official adaptations not overseen by the author, which do not modify or contradict source material.” And important to note: “Should by judging the feat through primary or secondary canon a different result be reached than for tertiary canon the result of primary or secondary canon will have priority”. With that said, the wiki at least allows use of these more distant sources, but rather than use this to bring up a guidebook to bolster my claims, I’ll bring up Nintendo’s website. Nintendo’s website hosts the Mario Portal, which does update itself to be lore accurate, so if a claim on said website is wrong, Nintendo has every opportunity to update it. Now the Wario World page on the website has no real Japanese counterpart: Japan got what is essentially a website dedicated to Wario World, whilst the English just got this one page, making this the original text. We don’t have to deal with the issue of translations, but we do have to deal with the issue that (even if released in the West first), Wario World is a Japanese game, however tertiary canon rules at least allow this as long as it doesn’t go wild. So, the claim is that “the jewel begins to morph his treasure trove into a melee of monsters, transforming the basement of Wario's castle into a bizarre parallel universe”. This is pretty consistent with the Japanese plot descriptions, the “bizarre” adjective even mirroring the “不思議な世界” wording, and 世界 can mean universe. The fact it’s a “parallel universe” might hurt my claim, as the Japanese doesn’t seem to have gone as far as to note “parallel”, and if that’s enough to shut my suggestion down so be it, though I can see this as just a fleshing out or elaboration, rather than full-on modification or contradiction. A parallel universe is still a type of 世界 (it’s still a universe, just a specific type), so essentially the English website is telling us exactly what type we’re dealing with, rather than attempting to alter the lore. And we do see a sun and stars in the sky in the game (in a comical sort of way but they did promise this world was bizarre!) to at least entertain the idea of a grand scale, being warped by the Black Jewel’s presence to show it is still under its dominion. (For some added humour and not a real point, there’s also a guidebook that claims the Black Jewel is causing the apocalypse in this scene, causing not just Treasure Square but THE WORLD to crumble, but I think bringing that up might be pushing my luck!). But since that might not meet our universe standards, it’s worth pointing out this whacky sky isn’t typical of the game: a moonlit night, a blue sky at day, an aurora with visible stars and an evening where the stars are starting to come out are all seen in the game without the same odd behaviour as Treasure Square. With the fact the sunset works as expected and auroras are caused by solar activity, it should be safe to say a real star is needed for these, indicating these stars do behave as we’d expect rather than being a cartoony set piece or paintings in the sky. Their visual presence and behaviour in the game at least shows that the website’s claim of scale isn’t unfounded (yes, I’m aware 4-A scale also allows for this, but it doesn’t deny universal levels of size). And again, if this 世界 wasn’t intended to be a universe, Nintendo has had every chance to alter this website to be more lore accurate as they have done in the past with contradictions, something they can’t really do with a guidebook or in-game translation, yet I remember this statement being brought up in 2021, unchanged. (Especially since Wario World is now on NSO, so clearly Nintendo didn’t forget about the game and should have their eye on how the website describes it again). So, I would posit that this website is merely trying to aid us in getting a sense of scale when the word “world” is tossed around, rather than attempting to add new details to the lore, which would fall in line with the canon rules, as it being a “world” never ruled out this rating, merely being the upper bounds of what we could claim.
Even if I’m wrong and this does violate the guidelines, I think it was a good idea that I at least pushed it out there, because I do think from what I’ve read that it does fall in line with UES and canon guidelines to create a whole story where the Black Jewel can earn this rating. The tertiary canon rules claim “Any changes based on tertiary canon will only be accepted if they are not contradicted by any instances of another canon, with regards to either the character power-scale, or logical inconsistencies (and plot holes).”, and I don’t think it’s exactly a contradiction here as a lesser reading for how big the 世界/world is seems to be absent, making this our sole hint/elaboration. I’m not entirely sure if the “all determinations continue to be made on a case-by-case basis, with these criteria serving as guidelines rather than an exhaustive standard” rule can apply here too, but the idea of case-by-case letting the fact Nintendo’s website is regulated in an attempt to be as accurate to lore as possible would be something I’d be optimistic about, even with the glaring “parallel” issue.
SUPER MARIO RPG:
Ah, dis one. This'll be fun. But, let’s see… Culex should absolutely scale at 3-A or above at the lowest, and this solidified from his two appearances in SMRPG and the remake, as the guide (from Nintendo Power) notes him being the master of time and space.This is then exemplified as he is called; “この世の悪の全てをすべる者” (Controller of all evil in the world).
All of this is brought together within his Japanese and English incarnations;
https://youtu.be/2mhbIG3dmzQ?t=40
(Translation: O travelers who appear before me…. I am Crystaller, ruler of all evil in this world. On this spot, I feel and resonate with fluctuations emitted from a dimensional rift. You living ones before me… Why do you possess thickness? Why do you have such solidity? I am made of the power of evil. My form is depicted on naught but a flat surface. Yet you are formed from a power foreign to me. I wish to know the secret of the solid world! I shall fight with the utmost of my power. Now, demonstrate your might!)
After some combat, he then says…
https://youtu.be/2mhbIG3dmzQ?t=61
(Translation: I am formed from the supreme power. None in this world surpass me. Across time, from this world’s beginning to its end, I am the inheritor of the ultimate of Two. Now you will realize my strength!! Come forth, o power that rules over all creation!!).
This also fits within the context of the English Version;
https://youtu.be/30DyYkoNH9Q?t=42
“I am antimatter… I can see your past… I can see your future… I consume time…”.
This is completely and utterly confirmed in the Switch remake of the game, where these themes are supported;
https://youtu.be/InBJDaNh69Y?t=47 ← He says the exact same thing as last time.
https://youtu.be/4vDamuVTVmg?t=60 ← The exact same thing.
Why no, it does not matter what his physiology is “2D”, these statements are uncontradicted, and on top of that, “2D” and “3D” are defined in an interesting way here.
He says that he’s “made of the power of evil. My form is depicted on naught but a flat surface”.
But when he talks about Mario’s 3D World, he says…
“The power of the third dimension is that power of legend. The power said to far surpass the fluctuations of evil. Love, friendship, joy…. The power of hope for peace…. It appears this strength is too much for me.”
In conclusion… yea. Culex is certainly 3-A or higher, it’s so blatant that I may as well say that arguments against this might be considered raw copium. This would apply to Mario, Peach, Bowser, Mallow and Geno since they were able to take down Culex, and all of them are able to damage and tank hits from him respectively.
MARIO PARTY 5:
Well, well, well… I talked about this a lot during my original 2-A CRT, but my CRT still had some weight, as I was able to prove that the Star Spirits created the Dream Depot itself, which should absolutely contains tons of Dreams (i.e Universes);
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ngc/gp5j/cnt_1/tip04.html
Bowser should scale at or above the Star Spirits, since they needed the help of Mario and Crew to take him down, to which Bowser was going to destroy the dreams and replace them with his own, as stated by Misstar & Bowser;
https://youtu.be/tjT0yeA050E?t=241
https://youtu.be/tjT0yeA050E
He also states this again in game, SO MANY DARN TIMES.
https://****************/file/d/1bCyQNE3d8TjZrFuKpIiWjhrMhkLHFWI0/view
(Translation: "Bwahaha! I’ll destroy this Sweet Dream and turn it into my own, you heeear!!") <-- Repeat that, but change the description of the dream.
(LuckyEmilie Notes: Looking to the Mario Party 5 section of the Japanese Nintendo website for anything further, I found a summary of the story. It notes that Bowser "started to do evil things" and taunts "If you want to save the world of dreams, you'll have to fight us!!", which basically confirms the idea that he's doing it to lure in powerful challengers to grant the wish he's had for many years of fighting someone strong. As for Misstar's claim about people being able to dream again after Bowser's defeat, in Japanese she says "Thanks to you, everyone's dreams were protected. With this, everyone throughout the world can dream with peace of mind, my dear. ... ... Today, as it has been before, I'm sure everyone's wonderful dreams will come and gather in Dream Depot." ( なたのおかげで、 みんなの夢は守られました/護られました。 これで、 世界中の誰もがあんし んして夢見ることができるわ。 ...きょうもユメミールには、すてきな夢が集まって来るで). Whilst she says that people can now dream "with a clear mind" or "without worry", implying that it's not that people couldn't dream but would just not have a very nice experience when dreaming, she goes on to say about how Dream Depot will continue to be a place where dreams can come together once again, which seems to suggest they wouldn't have been able to otherwise, so it does seem pretty consistent that Bowser was a threat to Dream Depot's entirety and stopped dreams from gathering there).
Uh... yeah, same conclusion as last time, the cast is 3-A or higher! Thanks to LuckyEmile!
And if you wanna talk to a knowledgeable Mario man, see Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)!
