• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Pokemon: Creation Trio (& Others) Tier 1 Upgrade (ACCEPTED)

Status
Not open for further replies.
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
48 hrs need to pass since the thread was made. Then it can be applied and the thread closed.
Click to expand...

Hey Leph, whenever you have a moment, could you ping @Planck69, @Random-Helper323 & @Vietthai96 for me please, so I could present this comment for them?

ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Okay so as of now, Low 1-C CT & others, and 1-C Arceus, has been accepted. But before we apply the accepted changes, I did want to bring this to the table & see what could come from it.


Regarding 6-D earlier, I am ultimately fine if the current stuff that was presented isn’t enough for this to become 1-C for everyone other than Arceus. However, there is something I wanted to follow up with you guys about.

In the manga version of the Rise of Darkrai, theres more clarification given about Dialgas influence inside of the Rift. Theres outright confirmation that the flow of time was affected, becoming out of sync because of Dialga.

This would confirm a flow of time is present inside of it, which would mean a temporal dimension is required for this to happen. Given that the rift is now proven (& accepted) to be a separate space, wouldn’t this at least imply the rifts time axis would be independent from the rest of the multiverse?
Click to expand...
 
Bump

(BTW, even if 6-D as a whole does not get accepted in the end, we will still need staff to unlock the pages for Arceus and whatnot so the upgrades that were accepted can be applied.)
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Okay so as of now, Low 1-C CT & others, and 1-C Arceus, has been accepted. But before we apply the accepted changes, I did want to bring this to the table & see what could come from it.




Regarding 6-D earlier, I am ultimately fine if the current stuff that was presented isn’t enough for this to become 1-C for everyone other than Arceus. However, there is something I wanted to follow up with you guys about.

In the manga version of the Rise of Darkrai, theres more clarification given about Dialgas influence inside of the Rift. Theres outright confirmation that the flow of time was affected, becoming out of sync because of Dialga.

This would confirm a flow of time is present inside of it, which would mean a temporal dimension is required for this to happen. Given that the rift is now proven (& accepted) to be a separate space, wouldn’t this at least imply the rifts time axis would be independent from the rest of the multiverse?
Click to expand...
As I have said, time by default exists, so in reality you don't need to prove anything, on the contrary, you need to prove time didn't exist bruhh. The issue said time axis will just be a parallel time axis with space-time universes so it is not really adding another dimensional level
 
Vietthai96 said:
As I have said, time by default exists, so in reality you don't need to prove anything, on the contrary, you need to prove time didn't exist bruhh. The issue said time axis will just be a parallel time axis with space-time universes so it is not really adding another dimensional level
Click to expand...

Okay I think I am a bit confused by the bolded. What would be required to prove that there's an independent time-axis? Wouldn't the space being it's own separate world also indicate that it's time would be separate as well, or did I misunderstand this?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Okay I think I am a bit confused by the bolded. What would be required to prove that there's an independent time-axis? Wouldn't the space being it's own separate world also indicate that it's time would be separate as well, or did I misunderstand this?
Click to expand...
In short...
Outside of explanations which state that multiple time dimensions exist it is difficult to show that a work of fiction has more than one. The key point that has to be established is that there is a kind of time that flows in a different direction than the past or the future or any of the spatial directions.

Things like timelines having time that passes at different rates would not qualify, as even the theory of general relativity already establishes that with just one regular time dimension time can flow at different rates in different places. Time flowing backwards in another universe would also not qualify it to have an additional time dimension, as it would still use the same directions of past and future as regular time, just with events playing out in reverse. For the same reasons, statements about independent time streams or of separate kinds of time, which could flow parallel to the original time, would not qualify.

[...]

Of particular consideration are instances in which timelines as a whole are changed, such that there is a timeline (or multiple timelines) before they were changed and after they were changed or created / destroyed. As the timelines as a whole are changed, the before and after in this context can't be the past and future the timelines usually use, but should be a separate direction.

[...]

Aside from direct statements, the easiest way to confirm that the line is comprised of uncountably infinitely many points/"snapshots" is to show that the development of the timelines is time-like. I.e. typically one would want a statement indicating that the alteration of the timelines is subject to its own flow of time, or that special time travel can go to prior versions of the timelines instead of the past. The keyword in the latter case is time travel, as that specifies that the action happens through movement through something like time. Note that such statements can be considered contradicted if the fiction specifies that new versions of the timeline, i.e. additional snapshots, are only created when the timeline is altered or similar.
Click to expand...
You need to prove that the new time axis, to qualify as meaning anything that isn't just the past/future of the same timeline, goes in a whole different direction, an easy way being the destruction of a timeline not compromising the work of the greater time stream, or time travel going in a prior, separate version of the multiverse instead of the same universe.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Okay I think I am a bit confused by the bolded. What would be required to prove that there's an independent time-axis? Wouldn't the space being it's own separate world also indicate that it's time would be separate as well, or did I misunderstand this?
Click to expand...
Tier 2 space-time universes also are separated, and each one of them has its own time axis, but did we get +1D for each parallel time axis belonging to each space-time universe?. Of course not

For an independent time axis, you need proof that it is a time axis that is only for the 5D space in question, affecting it will not affect other universes, and affecting the temporal origin of those parallel universes do not affect the 5D space and its time. pretty hard to explain, ngl
 
Hmm. It does sound complicated, but I think I see what you guys are saying. For what its worth, would other universes being depicted as not having their time flows messed with mean much of anything?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Absolutely not, it's like the default for a multiverse to even be Tier 2.
Click to expand...

Oh no I meant like if X character messed with the time flow in the 5-D realm but the time flows of the universes outside of that were depicted as operating normally despite the former. Unless thats what you meant.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Oh no I meant like if X character messed with the time flow in the 5-D realm but the time flows of the universes outside of that were depicted as operating normally despite the former. Unless thats what you meant.
Click to expand...
There I have no idea, but if Hit got with that...
 
Hmm. How do these justifications look?

"Complex Multiverse level (6-D. Arceus is the "God who transcends everything" whose realm is beyond both time and space. This would also include the space between dimensions, an endless reality in its own right, that encompasses the totality of the Pokemon multiverse. He is a being farther than Giratina's reach, and the realms of The Creation Trio, including Giratina's which lacks the concept of both time and space, and Palkia's which has domain over both the parallel dimensions and the directions, with the Creation Trio members also being their own realms themselves."

"Low Complex Multiverse level (In its fight against Palkia, all the space-time was distorting until eventually collapsing. Like Palkia, it was about to completely reset all of reality, which is made of an untold to likely an infinite number of universes, as well as an endless reality that is the space between these universes & encompasses all of them, from destroying the concept of spirit. Is a good amount stronger than Darkrai, even with Palkia fighting it and drawing its attention) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Superior to its avatars. Its birth made time begin to flow. Aided in the creation of the multiverse along with the other members of the Creation Trio)"

"Low Complex Multiverse level (Roughly on par with Palkia and Dialga. In fact, has been portrayed on occasion to be superior to one of them, sometimes even together, and sometimes even by a sizable amount), higher in Origin Form | Low Complex Multiverse level (Superior to its avatars. Aided in some unknown way to the creation of the Pokémon multiverse, which contains at least an untold number to likely an infinite number of universes & an endless reality that is the space between these universes & encompasses all of them, along with the other members of the Creation Trio)"
 
Last edited:
Okay. I have to go to bed now but I started implementing the changes. The important pages, Arceus & the god tiers, are all taken care of now. Tomorrow I'll try getting to updating the trainers pages.
 
Okay. All of the listed pages have finally been updated accordingly. If there's no other comments or information to talk about, this thread is finished, and it and the appropriate pages can be closed back up.
 
Actually, wait. One small thing I noticed.

Is there any particular reason why Heatran doesn’t scale to this when amped by Arceus’s flame plate?
 
I did some fixes to Arceus P&A section and then someone else broke it entirely

Call me to lock this thread when you guys finish everything
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

HakutoRei000
  • Locked
(Need Admin)Iruna CRT (Major wank beware!): Upgrading Tier and others
Replies
17
Views
782
HakutoRei000
HakutoRei000
Username_uhhhIdontknow
Novel Ness and Giygas - Profiles [CRT]
2
Replies
56
Views
4K
Armorchompy
Armorchompy
ProfessorKukui4Life
Pokemon: Mew (And others) Upgrade
Replies
8
Views
1K
Mbpoops
Mbpoops
ProfessorKukui4Life
Pokemon: Minor Creation Trio Hax Upgrade
2
Replies
48
Views
7K
Apex_Predator_GX
Apex_Predator_GX
HakutoRei000
  • Locked
(Accepted!)Iruna addition: New Profile
Replies
12
Views
935
HakutoRei000
HakutoRei000
Back
Top