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This is a rematch for this match, which was (unfairly imo) declared a stomp. Please read that thread before you vote on this one so you understand the arguments being used here and don't bring up one that's already been addressed.
READ THIS:
Yhwach: @CastoriceTheFifth @Zanesucksatlife @Mbpoops @EldemadeDityjon
Saitama: @Jin2188
- Almighty Awakened Yhwach and Parallel Timeline Saitama will be used.
- Both are 3-C, Yhwach is 3-B with Blut Arterie.
- Battle takes place at the Soul King Palace (Takes place after Ichibe fight, Saitama will take the place of Ichigo).
- Saitama is bloodlusted.
The Versus Thread Rules state that a rematch is acceptable under the following conditions:
Let's start with the new battle conditions. One, the fight takes place immediately after the Ichibe fight, after Yhwach stabs the Soul King and right before he fights Ichigo (who is replaced by Saitama here) for a second time. This means that Yhwach has just recently re-awakened the Almighty, meaning that Saitama can use the Zero Punch to eliminate a past Yhwach who has not awakened the Almighty yet. Two, Saitama is bloodlusted. This means he will have no qualms with using time travel here.
Next is the new information. Two words: still silver.
Now, the silver itself is not the point here, since obviously Saitama doesn't have access to that. The point is that Uryu was able to catch off-guard a version of Yhwach that had the Almighty. Yhwach also had no reason to have the Almighty inactive here, but it's still possible that he did, so you have to accept one of two conclusions here:
Finally, there's the big one, the argument from the previous thread that isn't valid:
THE ALMIGHTY DOES NOT HAVE DURA NEG. SHUT UP ABOUT DURA NEG.
The one time Yhwach uses the Almighty in a way that would even allow for you to argue dura neg is when he breaks Ichigo's Bankai:
Notice how this part plays out. The broken tip of the Bankai is in Yhwach's hand, implying that he picked a future where he broke it with his hand. Yhwach's wording even supports this: "I broke it in the future". So it seems he has to pick a future that's actually physically possible, and can't just nuke people into oblivion without touching them if he isn't physically capable of such a thing himself.
This interpretation is once again supported by Yhwach almost immediately after as well:
He's explicitly comparing the Almighty to how normal people interact with the present moment, i.e. physically. And normal people can't do things that are logically/physically impossible for them, like nuking people who are far above their weight class.
"But then how is Yhwach able to teleport and revive himself?" Simple. He's not limited to the immediate future. He has access to all possible futures at all possible points in the future. He can take a point further in the future, like one where he's behind a person, and manifest that in the immediate future. Boom. Teleportation. Same thing with revival. He can CTRL+C an alternate timeline in which he didn't die, and CTRL+V that onto the actual future.
But the important part is that that future has to actually exist. For a rather extreme example to demonstrate my point, Yhwach can't just copy-paste a future in which he kills, say, Arceus, because there just isn't a possible future in which that happens. The difference in power is just too great. Similarly, he wouldn't be able to find a future where he beats Saitama once he gets too strong for him to keep up.
"B-but he broke Ichigo's Bankai when it oneshot him later!" Yeah. So? A normal human can oneshot a normal human of the same strength level with a sword too. Also AP and Durability aren't the same thing. Him breaking the sword doesn't make it dura neg. Shut up about dura neg.
"B-b-but he bypassed Orihime's shield!" He picked a future where the shield was inactive or he went around the shield. Still not dura neg. Shut up about dura neg.
"B-b-bu-but-!" SHUT UP ABOUT DURA NEG.
The bolded conditions are the ones I believe this rematch satisfies.
Let's start with the new battle conditions. One, the fight takes place immediately after the Ichibe fight, after Yhwach stabs the Soul King and right before he fights Ichigo (who is replaced by Saitama here) for a second time. This means that Yhwach has just recently re-awakened the Almighty, meaning that Saitama can use the Zero Punch to eliminate a past Yhwach who has not awakened the Almighty yet. Two, Saitama is bloodlusted. This means he will have no qualms with using time travel here.
Next is the new information. Two words: still silver.
Now, the silver itself is not the point here, since obviously Saitama doesn't have access to that. The point is that Uryu was able to catch off-guard a version of Yhwach that had the Almighty. Yhwach also had no reason to have the Almighty inactive here, but it's still possible that he did, so you have to accept one of two conclusions here:
- Yhwach had the Almighty active here, meaning that it's possible to perception-blitz Yhwach even when he has the Almighty active.
- Yhwach didn't have the Almighty active for some reason, meaning that he leaves gaps for Saitama to exploit.
Finally, there's the big one, the argument from the previous thread that isn't valid:
THE ALMIGHTY DOES NOT HAVE DURA NEG. SHUT UP ABOUT DURA NEG.
The one time Yhwach uses the Almighty in a way that would even allow for you to argue dura neg is when he breaks Ichigo's Bankai:
Notice how this part plays out. The broken tip of the Bankai is in Yhwach's hand, implying that he picked a future where he broke it with his hand. Yhwach's wording even supports this: "I broke it in the future". So it seems he has to pick a future that's actually physically possible, and can't just nuke people into oblivion without touching them if he isn't physically capable of such a thing himself.
This interpretation is once again supported by Yhwach almost immediately after as well:
He's explicitly comparing the Almighty to how normal people interact with the present moment, i.e. physically. And normal people can't do things that are logically/physically impossible for them, like nuking people who are far above their weight class.
"But then how is Yhwach able to teleport and revive himself?" Simple. He's not limited to the immediate future. He has access to all possible futures at all possible points in the future. He can take a point further in the future, like one where he's behind a person, and manifest that in the immediate future. Boom. Teleportation. Same thing with revival. He can CTRL+C an alternate timeline in which he didn't die, and CTRL+V that onto the actual future.
But the important part is that that future has to actually exist. For a rather extreme example to demonstrate my point, Yhwach can't just copy-paste a future in which he kills, say, Arceus, because there just isn't a possible future in which that happens. The difference in power is just too great. Similarly, he wouldn't be able to find a future where he beats Saitama once he gets too strong for him to keep up.
"B-but he broke Ichigo's Bankai when it oneshot him later!" Yeah. So? A normal human can oneshot a normal human of the same strength level with a sword too. Also AP and Durability aren't the same thing. Him breaking the sword doesn't make it dura neg. Shut up about dura neg.
"B-b-but he bypassed Orihime's shield!" He picked a future where the shield was inactive or he went around the shield. Still not dura neg. Shut up about dura neg.
"B-b-bu-but-!" SHUT UP ABOUT DURA NEG.
I'm not trying to say that Yhwach has no wincons, because he certainly does. He starts out 8.5x stronger than Saitama (when using Blut Arterie), so it's completely possible for him to, at the very beginning of the fight, immediately pick a future where he murks Saitama with Blut Arterie, or absorbs him (although that didn't work with Aizen, you can chock that up to his immortality I guess but eh), and copy-paste that into reality. He can then also protect himself from the Zero Punch by making it so that Saitama is dead in all possible futures, like how he broke Ichigo's Bankai in all possible futures (I can't find a good scan for this, but it's on his profile so I guess just trust me bro). I just think that's rather out of character for him to do, since in all of his fights where he has the Almighty, he tends to mess around and induce despair in his opponents, talking about how "everything is powerless before him" and stuff like that. He'll probably do the same to Saitama.
Now, when Saitama starts to pose an actual threat to Yhwach, that changes things. Yhwach broke Ichigo's Bankai immediately once he realized that it was actually dangerous. If he notices that Saitama is growing in strength, he'll likely shut that down immediately if he can. Those last three words are important though, because once Saitama gets too strong, Yhwach has no way of taking him out, since I've already established that he doesn't have dura neg (shut up about dura neg) and Saitama's gonna be fast enough to blitz. The question, then, is when he's most likely to notice the growth. If he notices it early enough, then he can rewrite the future to shut it down. However, it's also just as likely that he won't notice it until it's too late. Yes, he can look at the future to see, but we've already established that he doesn't have the Almighty active at all times. Hell, during his second fight with Ichigo, (which this battle replaces), he intentionally keeps the Almighty inactive for a large part of the battle, just to f*ck with him. He might not notice that Saitama is getting stronger until it's too late for him to do anything about it.
There's also the possibility of Saitama just straight up copying the Almighty outright (even partially), but you don't even need to accept that for Saitama to have a solid chance here.
Both sides have valid wincons. Yhwach needs to murk Saitama before he gets too strong, and Saitama needs to stall long enough to eclipse Yhwach in strength and pull off the Zero Punch. It's just a matter of which outcome you think is more likely. I personally think Saitama winning is, but if Yhwach wins this time, I'll accept it.
Now, when Saitama starts to pose an actual threat to Yhwach, that changes things. Yhwach broke Ichigo's Bankai immediately once he realized that it was actually dangerous. If he notices that Saitama is growing in strength, he'll likely shut that down immediately if he can. Those last three words are important though, because once Saitama gets too strong, Yhwach has no way of taking him out, since I've already established that he doesn't have dura neg (shut up about dura neg) and Saitama's gonna be fast enough to blitz. The question, then, is when he's most likely to notice the growth. If he notices it early enough, then he can rewrite the future to shut it down. However, it's also just as likely that he won't notice it until it's too late. Yes, he can look at the future to see, but we've already established that he doesn't have the Almighty active at all times. Hell, during his second fight with Ichigo, (which this battle replaces), he intentionally keeps the Almighty inactive for a large part of the battle, just to f*ck with him. He might not notice that Saitama is getting stronger until it's too late for him to do anything about it.
There's also the possibility of Saitama just straight up copying the Almighty outright (even partially), but you don't even need to accept that for Saitama to have a solid chance here.
Both sides have valid wincons. Yhwach needs to murk Saitama before he gets too strong, and Saitama needs to stall long enough to eclipse Yhwach in strength and pull off the Zero Punch. It's just a matter of which outcome you think is more likely. I personally think Saitama winning is, but if Yhwach wins this time, I'll accept it.
READ THIS:
I think I'm allowed to do this, since I'm mostly just enforcing rules that already exist.
- Don't just say "I vote for Yhwach", or "I vote for Saitama" and leave it at that. Provide actual reasons for why you support one side over the other (and no, "I like this character more" is not a valid reason). "FRA" is acceptable here, so long as there actually are "reasons above" to begin with, and said reasons above have not been debunked. If they have, then you either need to address that ("rebunk" them) or use different arguments.
- Make sure you read the above spoiler "Why I'm Doing this Rematch" as well as the previous thread before you vote or debate on this one. If I can't verify that you've read them, I won't count your vote. This ties into Rule 1.
- When citing a feat, provide scans if possible, or state the chapter the feat happened in if not. Otherwise your vote may be discounted. This is to prevent blatant lies about feats, or intentional misrepresentation of manga information, neither of which will be tolerated from either side. I have both mangas available to freely read, and I will call you out for making shit up.
Yhwach: @CastoriceTheFifth @Zanesucksatlife @Mbpoops @EldemadeDityjon
Saitama: @Jin2188
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