5-B Planet Tiersetter Tournament Round 1 Match 5: The Batter vs Primal Groudon (0-9-0) FINISHED

[Shadowslash125]

You thought I was gonna go in order? Time to spice things up.​

Arena

• Via SBA, Central Park.

• Starting Distance will be based on SBA. In this case 4 kilometers due to some of Groudon's moves being planetary range

Match Conditions

• Speed is equalized by default, but may remain unequalized if one character can mitigate the speed gap (e.g., through passives, resistances, durability advantages, etc.).
• Matches will use SBA unless specified otherwise.
• Rules are subject to changes on a per-match basis to make them fairer or more interesting
• Wincon is via incapacitation or death
• Combatants are allowed to magically view the other previous matches in-universe, except for the initial tiersetter match (hence, this only becomes effective from the quarter-finals onwards)

Match Rules

• 3 days are given to both participating users to debate. Regardless of circumstances, I will decree the outcome of the match after the 3 days for the sake of the tourney's pacing. While they may/may not be added to the profiles, further votes can be given so that these matches are eligible to be added to the respective character's profiles
  
  • An exception can be made should the participating user notify everyone in this thread that they'd be inactive for a bit or some other situation. A further 1 day will be given for such exception
  • If you no longer have any reason or motivation to continue participating in this tournament, notify in the thread to have your combatant removed (and depending on the tourney time, a replacement can be issued)
• Inconclusive matches are also subject to the above rule, but I will issue a coin flip to decide who advances (unless the votes have a 3-4 vote difference, at which it is completely subject to the first rule instead)

---

The Batter (75.43 ZT)	Primal Groudon (896.53 ZT)	Central Park becomes 90% water
-	9 (@Kellex, @Friedoil11, @koopa3144, @Steve1775, @Nonynho, @Delusionaltx2, @shootingrock, @AthelChan, @Thunderman101)	-

 

[Shadowslash125]

Is Primal Groudon ok?

I did't read OP with full attention, apparently, cuz i thought it was 12
I'd like Batter to be fully nominated, it is possible?

Come

 

[koopa3144]

Wrote this out ahead of time cause I'd knew I would prob be busy when thread dropped.

So, as it stands with the SBA distance, the Batter can't close the 4km distance before Groudon blows him up with a beam. The Batter can't really do anything about it since he doesn't have the dura or heat resistance to tank it, and he can't heal/revive since the AOE is gonna take out The Batter and the Addons at the same time. At most, if he ran full speed towards Groudon as soon as the fight starts, it'd take around 14 seconds to cover the 4km gap with his 281.45 m/s travel speed, which is more than enough time for Groudon to fire a beam to nuke him.

Even if the Batter started closer or somehow closes the distance, Groudon should still win more often than not. If it just comes down to a quick draw, Groudon can almost instantly fire its beam attacks, so it should be able to kill The Batter before he can do anything.

 

[Thunderman101]

foloo0ws

 

[DavidTPPM]

Wrote this out ahead of time cause I'd knew I would prob be busy when thread dropped.

So, as it stands with the SBA distance, the Batter can't close the 4km distance before Groudon blows him up with a beam. The Batter can't really do anything about it since he doesn't have the dura or heat resistance to tank it, and he can't heal/revive since the AOE is gonna take out The Batter and the Addons at the same time. At most, if he ran full speed towards Groudon as soon as the fight starts, it'd take around 14 seconds to cover the 4km gap with his 281.45 m/s travel speed, which is more than enough time for Groudon to fire a beam to nuke him.

Even if the Batter started closer or somehow closes the distance, Groudon should still win more often than not. If it just comes down to a quick draw, Groudon can almost instantly fire its beam attacks, so it should be able to kill The Batter before he can do anything.

Can't the batter like, dodge

 

[koopa3144]

Can't the batter like, dodge

The large aoe explosions that beams create covers that. They also easily tag comparable characters (I have a scan I wanna use here but I’m on mobile) after being fired so it’s unlikely that the Batter can even avoid the initial attack.

 

[Nonynho]

First i'll copy paste what i brought up before, then i'll start answering what happens here

I firmly believe we shouldn't even create a thread for Batter vs Groudon, because Groudon can't deal quick enough with Batter and Addons' synergy to get up buffs and debuffs, duraneg and proto-bio-manip attacks, various status conditions including Mute, Palsy and Blind, all leaving Groudon resourceless and Healing+Ressurection.

With equal speed all of them dodge Groudon's attacks, be it via Batter's skill or via Addons levitating and being immune to ground attacks due to it
Batter and Addons' whole gimmick is buffing, debuffing, putting status and attacking at the same time while Groudon uses the first 3 quite rarely and for Groudon to heal from them (or his HP) with Rest he'll have to sleep for however we establish is at least 2 turns lol
With Groudon's kit naturally changing the entire environement he'll have to deal with Batter's stealth, info analysis and ability to heal quick and easy...while he deals with basically all of the above

Isn't Groudon much stronger going off the AP values in OP?

Basically all of his attacks can be dodged either because of equal speed or because of levitate

Also Groudon isn't unskilled

Never said he was, just that Batteur's kit is more concise and the team has a lot of synergy to make him have a way harder life doing a thing
Also, after he gets Mute status he can't do s***

Basically all of his attacks can be dodged either because of equal speed or because of levitate

Groudon has very large AOE and can just slow them down with Scary Face or sprout lava under them.

Also, after he gets Mute status he can't do s***

Would it stop Groudon from being able to physical attack The batter?

Groudon has very large AOE

Already dealt with with above statements

and can just slow them down with Scary Face

Not commonly used, very ooc

sprout lava under them.

Impossible after Mute

Would it stop Groudon from being able to physical attack The batter?

Mute won't, but the subsequent Palsy and/or Blind will.
Even if Groudon hits Batteur and kill him, he gets ressurected while other addons keep leaving Groudon resourceless

 

[Nonynho]

So, as it stands with the SBA distance, the Batter can't close the 4km distance before Groudon blows him up with a beam. The Batter can't really do anything about it since he doesn't have the dura or heat resistance to tank it, and he can't heal/revive since the AOE is gonna take out The Batter and the Addons at the same time. At most, if he ran full speed towards Groudon as soon as the fight starts, it'd take around 14 seconds to cover the 4km gap with his 281.45 m/s travel speed, which is more than enough time for Groudon to fire a beam to nuke him.

It is a beam that needs to charge up and Batter has years of experience facing many many many different types of foes, so dodging the beam is not at all impossible or unimaginable

And i have talked about this in another time

Funny thing is:
With the same speed stat it's a coinflip to decide who moves first in each turn, so assuming this is a turn-based fight, and the worst scenario, Groudon moves first:

Turn 1-
Earthquake/Precipice Blades/Whatever Ground-type move
All addons unnaffected due to levitate
Batteur dies because in this scenario he didn't dodge

Alpha gives Groudon Mute
Omega Revives Batteur
Epsilon buffs everybody

Turn 2 onwards-
Groudon can't do s***

Epsilon buffs everybody in other stat
Omega uses Photographic Blur
Alpha gives Groudon Palsy or other status effect
Batteur disfigures Groudon little by little via Run With Faith

Killing Batteur changes nothing
Killing Omega also changes nothing because by the time Groudon does this, Batteur is already back and can revive them with items
And there's the likelyhood of dodging since it is a charge up attack and they're in the middle of a place with loooooooooots of trees to hide avoiding this beam

 

[Thunderman101]

First i'll copy paste what i brought up before, then i'll start answering what happens here

is there any evidence hed use the very specific combo of abilites you brought up

 

[Nonynho]

is there any evidence hed use the very specific combo of abilites you brought up

i didn't bring up a very specific combo, it's just how they act because they have specific functions
Mute, Palsy or Blind have the same immediate effect of leaving Groudon slowly without resources, the order won't matter but as Mute censors more abilities, it makes more sense to use it first
Batteur dies in this worst case scenario, so the reviving fella obviously revives
Epsilon is responsible for buffs or multi-hit so obviously he buffs first

 

[koopa3144]

is a beam that needs to charge up and Batter has years of experience facing many many many different types of foes, so dodging the beam is not at all impossible or unimaginable

As shown in both the clips I linked. Groudon doesn’t need motte then like a secend to ready a beam and fire it. Do you have scans of him dealing with and avoiding AOE cable of overtaking an entire hillside?

Killing Batteur changes nothing
Killing Omega also changes nothing because by the time Groudon does this, Batteur is already back and can revive them with items

Like I said AOE is gonna take them all out at once, there not going to be able to revive each other

I’ll get back to replying when I’m on a pic in like a hour or so. Typing on mobile takes SOOOOOO long

 

[Friedoil11]

Well, after a bit of checking, I found some things.

And there's the likelyhood of dodging since it is a charge up attack and they're in the middle of a place with loooooooooots of trees to hide avoiding this beam

In case The Batter hides somewhere, couldn't Groudon just use Lava Plume since it literally hits everything around himself and having a high chance to burn him?

Epsilon is responsible for buffs or multi-hit so obviously he buffs first

Epsilon can buff The Batter, but Groudon can also boost himself using ancient power and also debuff The Batter's defence with Earth Power

PS: couldn't Groudon be able to heal himself in battle with Hot Blooded since it says that it allows him to passively restore health while standing on soil?

 

[Nonynho]

As shown in both the clips I linked. Groudon doesn’t need motte then like a secend to ready a beam and fire it. Do you have scans of him dealing with and avoiding AOE cable of overtaking an entire hillside?

Like I said AOE is gonna take them all out at once, there not going to be able to revive each other

I’ll get back to replying when I’m on a pic in like a hour or so. Typing on mobile takes SOOOOOO long

Groudon's combat speed is subsonic+ too, so besides them not being crowded together like Team Magma there it'll take 15s to reach them, giving more than enough space for dodging, as there is an accuracy mechanic in the game and we're talking about a much, much shorter distance

 

[Nonynho]

In case The Batter hides somewhere, couldn't Groudon just use Lava Plume since it literally hits everything around himself and having a high chance to burn him?

nope, by the time he uses it, an Addon has already put either Palsy or Mute on him

Epsilon can buff The Batter, but Groudon can also boost himself using ancient power

Effects​

Ancient Power deals damage and has a 10% chance of raising all the user's stats at once

and also debuff The Batter's defence with Earth Power

Effects​

Earth Power deals damage and has a 10% chance of lowering the target's Special Defense by one stage.

Those aside from being just veeeeery unlikely, have their effectiveness brutally reduced by Addons' constant buff and debuffing

 

[Friedoil11]

nope, by the time he uses it, an Addon has already put either Palsy or Mute on him

How much do they last? And do they work on all of Groudon's moves?

 

[Nonynho]

How much do they last?

Until removed, which Groudon can only do by resting

And do they work on all of Groudon's moves?

Yup, Palsy would get Groudon to not use any physical ones and Mute any special ones
There's also Blind, too

 

[koopa3144]

Back on a pc, gonna have to dip for a few hours after this tho,

Groudon's combat speed is subsonic+ too, so besides them not being crowded together

The addons are right next to The Batter in combat afaik and even if they weren't, unless their tens of meters away, the AOE is also gonna tag them and one-shot them.

it'll take 15s to reach them

Groudon's beams can easily cover the distance in a second as shown in the first clip I sent.

as there is an accuracy mechanic in the game and we're talking about a much, much shorter distance

Are you referring to OFF's accuracy mechanic? Cause unless The batter applies some kind of effect to Groudon (Which he can't do due to the starting distance) All of Groudon's beam attacks have a natural 100% accuracy in game iirc.

nope, by the time he uses it, an Addon has already put either Palsy or Mute on him

Lava Plume is a large AOE eruption from the users body and with Groudon's range more then covering the starting distance, he should be more than capable of using it from a safe distance and nuking the area and The Batter without the threat of getting in his range.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Oh boy

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I think something worth considering is the level of ressurection that batter has here

ressurection is subject to different tiers so if batters resurection was only high-mid and groudon just vaporizes him due to the ap advantage and/or heat then he might win off that

ofc if the batter's ressurection goes up to high or smth then i'll vote for him since he'd close the distance eventually and just hax him

 

[Friedoil11]

ofc if the batter can ressurect from vaporization then i'll vote for him since he'd close the distance eventually

The problem here is that his resurrection works only with one character and they will have little health, so Groudon just needs another attack to kill him.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The problem here is that his resurrection works only with one character and they will have little health, so Groudon just needs another attack to kill him.

if this is true, then i'd like to ask what batters mobility options are here

if he has none (he's an RPG so he prob dosen't now that I think about it) then I'll vote for Ubers landorus here

 

[Friedoil11]

if this is true, then i'd like to ask what batters mobility options are here

I've checked his profile and it seems he doesn't have any particular mobility option (except for climbing a chimney in about a minute), but if it matters, the Add-Ons can fly.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I've checked his profile and it seems he doesn't have any particular mobility option (except for climbing a chimney in about a minute)

not sure if climbing and running are the same thing, especially since the batter isn't a quadrepedal

, but if it matters, the Add-Ons can fly.

Can they carry him? and how fast can they fly?

 

[Friedoil11]

Can they carry him? and how fast can they fly?

Honestly, I don't know.

not sure if climbing and running are the same thing, especially since the batter isn't a quadrepedal

Well, this is the only thing I found about his speed/mobility.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Guess i'm leaning toward groudon then (not voting tho)

groudon from what I remember is far more chaotic than your average legendary, chances are it's probably just gonna nuke the area.

Batter lacks the mobility to dodge and groudon has an 11.88x ap advantage backed by heat so chances are a single attack is gonna vaporize him

batters ressurection is unspecified so it's unclear if he can come back from vaporization (he'd need at least mid-high to come back from vaporization)

All of the batters abilities lack the range needed to hit groudon from 4 KM away so haxing him is a no-go. Meanwhile, the sheer AOE from groudons attacks, backed by batters lack of mobility make it really hard to suggest he can dodge


Really not looking good for batter here

 

[Friedoil11]

The only way I see The Batter win is if Alpha uses Mute or Palsie on Groudon and then hitting him until he dies,

Until removed, which Groudon can only do by resting

which apparently Groudon can remove it with Rest.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The only way I see The Batter win is if Alpha uses Mute or Palsie on Groudon and then hitting him until he dies,

how does he even hit him tho? the range is too far for him to use any status effects

 

[Psychomaster35]

Keep in mind that Groudon has moves apart from Ground type moves that can still hit the Addons, so if it does manage to do a Ground type move on the first turn to kill Batter but not the Addons, it will do another move that isn't a Ground type move to hit them.

Groudon should be able to take this via simply one-shotting and having the range advantage.

 

[Kellex]

I was gonna type whole paragraphs, but I looked at Groudon's profile again and... their AP value seems a little odd? Groudon's AP value comes from the Grand Meteor Delta, which is 896.53 zettatons of tnt. However the evidence from their profile says they needed Primal Kyogre's help to stop the meteor, implying their AP should be half or 448.265 zettatons.

I'm not a Pokemon supporter so please let me know if there's something I'm missing.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I was gonna type whole paragraphs, but I looked at Groudon's profile again and... their AP value seems a little odd? Groudon's AP value comes from the Grand Meteor Delta, which is 896.53 zettatons of tnt, however the evidence from their profile says they needed Primal Kyogre's help to stop the meteor, implying their AP should be half.

I was actually thinking the same as well but thats prob something more experienced poke supporters should handle since i haven't reached the gen 6 manga yet

that said it still one shots just through any of its massive fire type attacks since batter lacks a resistance to heat

 

[Friedoil11]

Btw, does Hot Blooded work? Because it says that if he is on lava/magma, soil or sand he passively restore health, but since the arena is 90% water, does it still work?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Btw, does Hot Blooded work? Because it says that if he is on lava/magma, soil or sand he passively restore health]

That idk

, but since the arena is 90% water, does it still work?

No it isn't, desolate land would immediately dry out any and all forms of water

 

[shootingrock]

Btw, does Hot Blooded work? Because it says that if he is on lava/magma, soil or sand he passively restore health, but since the arena is 90% water, does it still work?

Arena is in a park with dirt and soil, so it can prob take effect.

Leaning towards Groudon atm

 

[Kellex]

I was actually thinking the same as well but thats prob something more experienced poke supporters should handle since i haven't reached the gen 6 manga yet

that said it still one shots just through any of its massive fire type attacks since batter lacks a resistance to heat

That's true.

While the Batter has better hax, Groudon's range and AP is too much for him unfortunately.

Because of that and the reasons above, I'm voting Groudon.

 

[Friedoil11]

Voting Groudon FRA

 

[Nonynho]

Will take me a sec to give answers here, but i'll come back today still, y'all shouldn't vote yet.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I'll wait for nonynho ig but I just don't see how the batter can cross 4 KM of distance before Groudon hits him once or twice with any of what are essentially nukes that will one shot him.

 

[koopa3144]

Keep in mind that Groudon has moves apart from Ground type moves that can still hit the Addons, so if it does manage to do a Ground type move on the first turn to kill Batter but not the Addons, it will do another move that isn't a Ground type move to hit them.

I wanna add that even tho Groudon likely isn't gonna go for a ground move over a beam cause the starting distance, Precipice Blades should be able to reach the Addons regardless of their flight since Groudon can stretch them far from the earth, even being able to hit Kyogre with them while they're over the ocean. Fissure should also work since it'll BFR the Batter (which he has no means of returning from), and leave the Addons, which do not have a sentience of their own and can't fight without the Batter.

I was gonna type whole paragraphs, but I looked at Groudon's profile again and... their AP value seems a little odd? Groudon's AP value comes from the Grand Meteor Delta, which is 896.53 zettatons of tnt. However the evidence from their profile says they needed Primal Kyogre's help to stop the meteor, implying their AP should be half or 448.265 zettatons.

I'm not a Pokemon supporter so please let me know if there's something I'm missing.

If I'm not mistaken, it's because Groudon and Kyogre, while inferior to them, can harm Rayquaza, who's superior to Attack Forme Deoxys, which is > then base Deoxys who did the Grand Meteor Delta feat. Might be best to check with another Pokémon supporter cause I might be wrong.

 

[Nonynho]

The addons are right next to The Batter in combat afaik

they're not up close as team magma were, they're a few meters from each other and moving all the time

even if they weren't, unless their tens of meters away, the AOE is also gonna tag them and one-shot them

Solar Beam or any beam Groudon's shown to perform has this AoE in it. They also have 15s to dodge it, as...

Groudon's beams can easily cover the distance in a second as shown in the first clip I sent.

...this was not 4km away by any means, unless detailed to be so and just poor animation, but it is highly unlikely.

Are you referring to OFF's accuracy mechanic?

yep

Groudon's beam attacks have a natural 100% accuracy in game iirc.

ur kinda correct, because if 100 of the Accuracy stat was 100% we wouldn't have attacks with effects on the text saying they don't miss, like Magical Leaf, or moves like Blizzard or Thunder in specific terrains

Lava Plume is a large AOE eruption from the users body

It is clearly a beam that goes from the upper body with some residual "lava" spreading on the ground, so with time to dodge, skill to do so and flight it is not impossible for the addons to just not suffer a thing from this move (let's all remember that Groudon is a wild pokémon that it's very likely he's not as good at hitting flying opponents because he is essencially the ground-type fella)

I think something worth considering is the level of ressurection that batter has here

the attacks it is the most common for him to use aren't vaporizing Batteur (he's using more ground moves than fire moves, naturally)

if this is true, then i'd like to ask what batters mobility options are here

if it matters, the Add-Ons can fly.

Can they carry him? and how fast can they fly?

They are more than capable of carrying him as they all scale to one another statuswise and they can fly as fast as their combat speed which is why i'm insisting that they'll dodge quite easily groudon's far away moves since they are habituated to dodging stuff from a much closer distance

All of the batters abilities lack the range needed to hit groudon from 4 KM away so haxing him is a no-go.

The thing is that Groudon isn't ending all of them before they reach him and start haxxing
They dodge Groudon's moves with quite the ease and can close the distance faster than his tactic-changing

The only way I see The Batter win is if Alpha uses Mute or Palsie on Groudon and then hitting him until he dies,

which apparently Groudon can remove it with Rest.

If Groudon rests he's asleep for at least 2 turns, and they have the AP to end him before he wakes up you also shouldn't forget Alpha's Duraneg

Keep in mind that Groudon has moves apart from Ground type moves that can still hit the Addons, so if it does manage to do a Ground type move on the first turn to kill Batter but not the Addons, it will do another move that isn't a Ground type move to hit them.

With the distance and the fact that they can properly fly, no this is not a solution

Btw, does Hot Blooded work? Because it says that if he is on lava/magma, soil or sand he passively restore health, but since the arena is 90% water, does it still work?

I've been wanting to know for a while: wth is this Hot Blooded thing? Where has Pokémon Conquest been accepted as canon?

Fissure should also work since it'll BFR the Batter (which he has no means of returning from), and leave the Addons, which do not have a sentience of their own and can't fight without the Batter.

Those highlighted things are quite wrong unfortunately
The addons fly and the team is highly strategical, so it is not impossible for them to just get him if Groudon decides to use Fissure...But this move misses a lot, for starters, and is not the most common for him or basically nobody in the verse

 

[AthelChan]

flip a coin