Dragon Ball Heroes Revision Part #N

[Vietthai96]

Didn't we also have a note in logic hax for this

• Alterations to logic should only be listed as Logic Manipulation if truly of a fundamentally logical nature. Changes such as making 1 + 1 = 3 should for instance be listed as Mathematics Manipulation instead, as that is only a logical contradiction if one assumes the axioms of mathematics to be valid. For similar reasons, time paradoxes get listed as Acausality or Causality Manipulation and are not fundamentally considered logical contradictions.

DT explanation doesn't seem to involve this as a possible context since it is talking about things that are not listed as unqualified examples in the notes

Cause after all, the very presence of Acausality or results of causality hax is a contradiction to Time and causality itself

Guys, please, read what i said on the OP

Edit: Anyway it is time for me to sleep, bye guys

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

it can overwrite the timeline, not just creating new timelines

This isn't Logic Manipulation. I'm not gonna repeat myself.

what? i never said time paradox only is logic hax, or multiverses which branching timelines to solve contradictions are logic hax

You completely missed the point and didn't even respond to my question.

Seems oke to me

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Uh... I'm sorry, but how did we equate this:

You would need an explanation like "Just holding out your hand won't create a fireball. However, he used his power over logic to make it so that holding out his hand would from now on both create and not create a fireball. He held out his hand and nothing happened, yet something happened. A fireball spawned before him out of nothing."

To "mortal logic won't let you change the past without the universe splitting, but god's will" (Beerus' statement) and that it is a law of the world that worlds will/will not multiply?

The only mention of "logic" in the entire section of OP, as far as I've seen, is Beerus saying "That's your mortal logic" which, going by the context, seems to imply more that it is the mortal way of thinking/reasoning, not a literal law of logic that applies to mortals whatsoever.

Other scans just mention that it is the law of the multiverse to expand/not expand, or that changes in the past cause different timelines (that is, just MWI). I'm honestly not seeing how, before the change of standards, Logic being "a law of the world" got accepted on the first place from a statement as vague as that, and other statements that do not support nor imply on the very least there being a metaphysical aspect of "Logic" governing the multiverse/spacetime. But anyway, I'm seeing that what OP is linking qualifies more of the following part of the DT comment:

So yeah, you could have time paradox creation by means of logic manipulation, but things in the style of "it's a time paradox. That logically makes no sense!" isn't going to get you there.

Rather than the part they're trying to make it qualify for.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Snip

I think vieth might not be clear in his response (he can correct me if he wakes up)but basically the entire crux of the argument there exist a logic called as mortal logic/reason which beerus mentions this logic makes sure that timelines get seperated when choices are made or time travel is done i.e this is an underlying logic that reality follows the other set of logic is that of gods which can make changes in timelines without splitting them

Now t.p is able to manipulate/create this logic as not only it creates the multiverse which would mean that it is capable of creation of this sets of logic but also able to manipulate it as shown by aeos when she manipulated this reason in a way that timelines would not split no matter what

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I think I'm gonna have to disagree with this.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I think vieth might not be clear in his response (he can correct me if he wakes up)but basically the entire crux of the argument there exist a logic called as mortal logic/reason which beerus mentions this logic makes sure that timelines get seperated when choices are made or time travel is done i.e this is an underlying logic that reality follows the other set of logic is that of gods which can make changes in timelines without splitting them

Now t.p is able to manipulate/create this logic as not only it creates the multiverse which would mean that it is capable of creation of this sets of logic but also able to manipulate it as shown by aeos when she manipulated this reason in a way that timelines would not split no matter what

This has nothing to do with what the wiki formally defines as “logic.” It is simply describing how time operates for mortals in this case.

A given construct can have its own “logic,” understood as the rules through which that construct functions, but that does not make that logic equivalent to the foundations of classical logic as fundamental atomic laws through which relations can be established in order to define the intelligible.

To qualify for the ability, one must in some way alter those relations between the laws of thought, or directly alter or destroy them.

JustANormalPerson expressed this in their own way as well:

The only mention of "logic" in the entire section of OP, as far as I've seen, is Beerus saying "That's your mortal logic" which, going by the context, seems to imply more that it is the mortal way of thinking/reasoning, not a literal law of logic that applies to mortals whatsoever.

Other scans just mention that it is the law of the multiverse to expand/not expand, or that changes in the past cause different timelines (that is, just MWI). I'm honestly not seeing how, before the change of standards, Logic being "a law of the world" got accepted on the first place from a statement as vague as that, and other statements that do not support nor imply on the very least there being a metaphysical aspect of "Logic" governing the multiverse/spacetime.

So, I stil disagree.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Seems oke to me

High 1-A+ (type 2) is almost entirely immutable (except to tier 0s who are able to create or destroy it). "Logic" manip is pretty much a fake lesser version of the logic that is high 1-A+.

 

[Hecky2222]

Thread whole looks like wanking causality manipulation to logic, so I agree with Bern there.

Beside I read DT comment fully and see he said for himself that isn't quite convincing. So it is better to ping him to ask if your case qualifies

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree with bern.

 

[Theglassman12]

Idk how we’re taking Beerus’ statements on Mortal reasoning and just general timeline shenanigans and inflating that to controlling literal logic itself when it barely has anything to do with what we define as Logic itself. Disagree with the thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

On second thought, I am having doubts on it being Logic Manipulation too.

 

[Thermor]

Should DT be tagged here too just in case?

 

[Robo432343]

Yeah I agree with logic hax, very self explanatory

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Idk how we’re taking Beerus’ statements on Mortal reasoning and just general timeline shenanigans and inflating that to controlling literal logic itself when it barely has anything to do with what we define as Logic itself. Disagree with the thread.

Wdym

 

[Vietthai96]

Closing the thread